OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[ZellSF]

They don't. 480pX2 doesn't work on a VP50. 480iX3 and 480iX4 doesn't work on a VP50.

480px2 works on the Edge, but it looks very oversharpened with lots of saw-tooth edges.

You can get 480px2 working on the 50 Pro for the PSP by playing around a bit:-

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... n_Portable

Oh right, I did read that then forgot all about it. Doesn't help with other 480p consoles, but if anyone's wondering how it looks:

PSP3000 + OSSC + DVDO VP50
PSP3000 + OSSC 480pX2 + DVDO VP50
PSP3000 + OSSC + XRGB-mini in VIDEO mode SHARPNESS 1
PSP3000 + OSSC + XRGB-mini in GAME mode SHARPNESS 1
PSP3000 + OSSC + XRGB-mini H_SCALER 4, V_SCALER 6, SHARPNESS 0
PSP3000 + OSSC 480pX2 + XRGB-mini in GAME mode

That was annoying to set up (adjust five different settings on the OSSC, four on the DVDO VP50). I think both 480pX2 captures look fairly identical outside of color, brightness and zoom settings (captures are more to illustrate sharpness).

[Fudoh]

PSP3000 + OSSC + XRGB-mini in GAME mode

this seems a lot worse than what I remember. I wonder why?

[Triple Lei]

Nice pics, ZellSF! I too found that 480pX2 combined with DVDO zoom works wonders for PSP. I used the echoshift titlescreen to make sure I was cropping out all of the borders and none of the gameplay picture and was so happy I made this video (the Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity title screen looks particularly sharp IMO). My settings:

Code: Select all

OSSC:
480p X2

DVDO Edge:
Vertical Zoom: 1.765x
Horizontal Zoom: 1.500x
Vertical Pan: -3

AviSynth:
Crop(0, 0, 1278, 720)
AddBorders(2, 0, 0, 0, color=$000000)
Letterbox(0, 0, x1=0, x2=2, color=$000000)

But that was with the previous firmware. Aren't there several 480px2 OSSC modes now? I haven't updated yet. Which 480px2 is the same as the old one?

[ZellSF]

PSP3000 + OSSC + XRGB-mini in GAME mode

this seems a lot worse than what I remember. I wonder why?

Did you actually use just use GAME mode without any manual tweaking of other settings? I'm sure I could get it to look better by tweaking H_SCALER, V_SCALER and maybe sharpness manually. Edit: manual settings give me this:
PSP3000 + OSSC + XRGB-mini H_SCALER 4, V_SCALER 6, SHARPNESS 0
Then it looks almost as good as the XRGB-mini + 480pX2 capture and arguably better (or worse) than the DVDO VP50 + 480pX2 capture. The initial XRGB-mini captures were apparently with SHARPNESS 1 (and no, reducing it to 0 did not fix the ringing, only tweaking H_SCALER did).

Could also be that the XRGB-mini handles HDMI worse than component or that something the OSSC does to the signal is problematic for the XRGB-mini.

But that was with the previous firmware. Aren't there several 480px2 OSSC modes now? I haven't updated yet. Which 480px2 is the same as the old one?

There are new modes for 480i, not 480p. It's still only one 480pX2 mode.

[ZellSF]

480px2 works on the Edge, but it looks very oversharpened with lots of saw-tooth edges.

Are you sure that's a problem with the scaling and not just that some content being scaled up without interpolation just looks that bad? I've seen at least one person here that's surprised that just pixel doubling 480p doesn't really look that good for 3D games. I've also seen people who insist it's the only way.

It would be weird for the Edge to fail that dramatically when the VP50 looks very very good. Yes I can see imperfections in the scaling on the capture I posted, but it's pretty good.

[Bahn Yuki]

https://youtu.be/omQ0l-RPIu4

I'm getting sick and tired of people reviewing the OSSC and not understanding what they have.

[Blair]

The Crystalio II accepts 240p x3-5 but I prefer x4 and 1:1 pixel ratio. Default values from the OSSC has x5 mode cut off some of the source output at least with my setup. Crystalio II handles interlaced passthrough as well as x2-4 modes. Passthrough looks the best however, the bob filter even at x4 just doesn't compare. When I get the capture device I'll take raw footage of all the modes 'n stuff.

Here's a crappy phone video of the Chrono Cross 480i menu not sure if the dropbox link will work. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0crnsc9jhstdh ... 2.rar?dl=0

wow, that transition is basically instantaneous. awesome. i'll have to update my firmware tonight (i'm still running two versions behind).

https://youtu.be/omQ0l-RPIu4

I'm getting sick and tired of people reviewing the OSSC and not understanding what they have.

yeah, most of them don't even know how to set the OSSC to "dtv mode" for better picture quality on the dreamcast.


(on the flip side I think this video turned out ok. still learning how to use OBS)
OSSC+SNES-1chip+HD3000 line2x

(Link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTOAjeFcLYw)

(please set video quality to 1080p60)

[ZellSF]

Can't say for the game, but the SD2SNES menu look way too dark to me. How does the 240p suite color bar test look if you capture the same way?

[Blair]

Can't say for the game, but the SD2SNES menu look way too dark to me. How does the 240p suite color bar test look if you capture the same way?

hmmm, strange. a few other users said it looked too bright and washed out before. (do you have an Nvidia gpu? have you checked the video driver settings for full rgb video?) (it should look just like the screenshot)

Spoiler

OSSC+SNES-1chip+HD3000 line2x

[ZellSF]

RGB range is set correctly here, it just looks too dark and so does the screenshot. There should be a smooth gradient thing going in the game list, but the 4 first lines are indistinguishable from eachother.

[Fudoh]

https://youtu.be/omQ0l-RPIu4
I'm getting sick and tired of people reviewing the OSSC and not understanding what they have.

When using 480p x2 output, what's the actual (active) resolution output by the OSSC with a DC in both modes (VESA/DTV)?

If you're using straight 480p output without the doubling option VESA will still have a AR narrower than 4:3, so a secondary processor is the only way to get true 4:3 (and using the DTV setting as a base provides you with the better image quality).

I assume that the 480p x2 option just doubles the horizontal pixel count as well, doesn't it ? That means that you're still stuck with the reduced resolution in VESA mode and the AR would be the same as in 480p output (although in your video it looks to be wider).

[Blair]

RGB range is set correctly here, it just looks too dark and so does the screenshot. There should be a smooth gradient thing going in the game list, but the 4 first lines are indistinguishable from eachother.

thanks for the heads up, i'll try to do some adjustments with the 240p color test

[paulb_nl]

https://youtu.be/omQ0l-RPIu4

I'm getting sick and tired of people reviewing the OSSC and not understanding what they have.

DTV 480p: Input is sampled at 858 samples per line, typically associated with 720x480 mode (CEA-861 spec.) used by DTV/DVD equipment and newer game consoles. This option forces the sampling mode for all inputs, which may be required for optimal image quality when e.g. Dreamcast with a VGA module is connected to RGBHV input.

VESA is what all generic VGA to HDMI converters use. DTV mode with VGA is what only the OSSC does. If your display supports it set H.active to 640 with the Dreamcast in DTV mode for the correct aspect ratio.

[ZellSF]

RGB range is set correctly here, it just looks too dark and so does the screenshot. There should be a smooth gradient thing going in the game list, but the 4 first lines are indistinguishable from eachother.

thanks for the heads up, i'll try to do some adjustments with the 240p color test

For reference, here's what I get (OSSC>DVDO VP50 (PC>PC)>BlackMagic Intensity Pro 4K.

[Fudoh]

VESA is what all generic VGA to HDMI converters use. DTV mode with VGA is what only the OSSC does. If your display supports it set H.active to 640 with the Dreamcast in DTV mode for the correct aspect ratio.

the interesting part is that Bahn Yuki uses 480p x2 and it gives him a rather nice AR. This makes me wonder which exact resolution the OSSC does output in 480p x2 mode and wether it's related the input sampling method you're using or not.

[Elrinth]

Can I pay someone to pre-order ossc 1.6 and fit the audioboard then ship it to me? Anyone interested?

Edit: nevermind I totally missed the fact it's already fitted with analog to digital audio conversion.

[Harrumph]

1.6 already has audio integrated...

[Elrinth]

oh *facepalm... wasn't clear to me

[marqs]

VESA is what all generic VGA to HDMI converters use. DTV mode with VGA is what only the OSSC does. If your display supports it set H.active to 640 with the Dreamcast in DTV mode for the correct aspect ratio.

the interesting part is that Bahn Yuki uses 480p x2 and it gives him a rather nice AR. This makes me wonder which exact resolution the OSSC does output in 480p x2 mode and wether it's related the input sampling method you're using or not.

Yes, by default VESA mode gives more correct aspect ratio even though is does not have pixel-perfect sampling for DC. VESA 640x480X2 output is 1280x960 while CEA 480pX2 output is 1440x960. In horizontal direction pixels are simply doubled, but there is plan to add full-width sampling option (results to more "analog"-look output) as well.

As paulb_nl said, best results with DC are gained when CEA 480p mode H.active is set to 640, which gives both correct sampling (858) and aspect ratio. However, many displays ignore H.active information so it's not a solution for everyone.

[BuckoA51]

Are you sure that's a problem with the scaling and not just that some content being scaled up without interpolation just looks that bad? I've seen at least one person here that's surprised that just pixel doubling 480p doesn't really look that good for 3D games. I've also seen people who insist it's the only way.

It would be weird for the Edge to fail that dramatically when the VP50 looks very very good. Yes I can see imperfections in the scaling on the capture I posted, but it's pretty good.

There were definite scaling problems as well as the oversharp look. Looking back it could probably be because I didn't have the Dreamcast configured optimally i.e. H.active to 640. I personally wouldn't ever use 480p linex2 with the Dreamcast anyway, it looks way to oversharpened, no CRT ever looked like that.

On the PSP it's another matter entirely, but even there it's pretty over-sharpened but you can always compensate with the VP50s Fine Detail control.

[ApolloBoy]

I took the plunge today and preordered an OSSC, looking forward to trying it out. I still wish it had composite and S-video support, but I recently acquired a Dell 2001FP monitor so that might mitigate that need.

[Sirotaca]

I got my invitation to preorder an OSSC, but before pulling the trigger, I wanted to see if I could test my TV for compatiblity. Using Ubuntu and xrandr, I tried the following modelines.

From the junkerhq wiki:

Code: Select all

Modeline "ossc_snes_1280x720_60.08"  80.55  1280 1385 1510 1705  720 729 738 786  -hsync -vsync

From this old post by marqs:

Code: Select all

Modeline "1280x720_custom"  80.4078  1280 1370 1495 1705  720 732 741 786 -hsync -vsync

Both gave the same result. I did get a picture, but...



The picture is shifted to the left and up, and as you can see, alternating lines are offset from each other.

Now, my questions are:
- Does this mean my TV is definitely incompatible with the OSSC's x3 mode on the current firmware? Are there settings I can tweak that might fix it?
- Does anyone have modelines I can test for x2/x4/x5?

[Harrumph]

What is your TV brand and model number?

[Sirotaca]

What is your TV brand and model number?

It's a Unitech Visole LCB1903V, some crappy off-brand TV that came with my apartment.

As much as I'd like to get something better, for various reasons I'm putting that off for the time being.

[Harrumph]

Ok. Well I think your initial test indicates that your display is actually compatible, what happens if it's incompatible is usually no image at all or some garbled mess. At least here, there is just some shift every other line for some reason.

I think you should try a modeline for generic 4:3 mode also (the ones you linked are based on optimized modes)
I have never used modelines, but it should look something like this:

Lx2 26.9755 720 733 793 858 480 487 508 524 -hsync -vsync
Lx3 55.1772 960 988 1042 1170 720 730 770 786 -hsync -vsync
Lx4 98.0928 1280 1318 1390 1560 960 976 1032 1048 -hsync -vsync
Lx5 160.8156 1920 1975 2005 2046 1080 1156 1234 1310 -hsync -vsync

I'm basing this on my old spreadsheet with OSSC default values, V.Frontp and V.Sync was not specified then, and I don't have an OSSC currently so I cannot check the new values in 0.77FW, but I know those values should be exposed now in advanced timing tweaker so maybe someone else can post them. Also there was some horizontal trickery with Lx5 mode which I tried to implement (from here), but it might still be way off.

[Sirotaca]

Much appreciated!

The good news is that Lx2 seems to work perfectly. The bad news is that none of the others seem to work at all.

I'll experiment with it some more tonight to see if I can coax Lx3 into working, but in the meantime at least I can be reasonably confident it'll work with Lx2.

[Blair]

Last set of videos and screens for a while (next time i'll do some 480i and 480p titles) on the line4x shots I just left in the overscan borders as thats what it looks like on my TV.


(please set video quality to 1080p60)

OSSC+SEGA CDX direct line4x

Link:(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL8U934gYbk)


OSSC+SEGA Saturn direct line5x (Scanlines 50%)

Link:(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRz6-rZSrbM)

(looks better before it was uploaded to youtube, the processing they did makes scalines look kinda meh)

OSSC+SEGA Saturn direct line5x (No Scanlines)

Link:(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXRZxYiROPk)


Full resolution screenshots

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

[Sirotaca]

I figured out that the reason Harrumph's Lx3 modeline wasn't working with my TV is that it won't accept an overall line length lower than 1360 pixels; it seems to really want a signal it can interpret as "WXGA". Apart from that, it doesn't seem very picky regarding pixel clock, total lines, etc. For example, this modeline works fine:

Code: Select all

64.2432 960 988 1042 1360 720 730 770 786 -hsync -vsync

So in theory, I should be able to get the OSSC's Lx3 output working by playing with the advanced timing settings, correct?

[Harrumph]

Well sure you might get a picture, but the problem then is that the picture will get stretched as you increase sample rate. Possibly, aspect/image adjustments on the TV itself could be used to correct that though.

[Sirotaca]

I see. So there's no way to pad out only the horizontal blanking without stretching the image, then? Sorry, I'm pretty new to this stuff and learning as I go.