Chromebook - What can it do?

[neorichieb1971]

My mother wants a computer (her first) but I thought a tablet or chromebook would be less bothersome for a beginner.

She only wants it for social media, youtubes, skype etc.


What would you buy for a non IT literate person (I'm talking someone who can't text on a phone yet, mainly due to her job which have made her fingers numb and blunt)?

Many thanks,

Richie.

[God]

Chromebook - What can it do?

Spy on you for google is the main thing it does.

Tiny hard drive so it uploads your shit to the cloud.

WONT let you install a new OS if you get tired of the spying. Have to throw away the hardware if you don't like the software. (Well, you kinda can, but it's not practical.)

I do like it's size and weight though. That's nice.

What would you buy for a non IT literate person?

Linux.

Seriously... She wont get viruses or spied on and debian has all the benefits of a walled garden with none of the draw backs.

Get it set up for her the way she likes and it should just... stay working.

It has a reputation for being hard, but that's only if you're repartitioning shit and stuff like that. If you're just browsing, IMing, watching videos, etc, then it's as easy as anything else. She'll be learning good habits instead of becoming dependent on something that's exploiting her.

'Cause everything else is literally a trojan horse. The spying MS and google get away with would be illegal but there's too much money to be made.

She may or may not care about that sort of thing. You could always ask. Does she see governments reading emails as necessary to catch the bad guys or as the death of liberty?

[null1024]

A Chromebook is basically a dirt cheap Linux machine with nearly no storage and effectively no software.
It'll fit the use case, but only that exact use case. It basically amounts to a Facebook and Youtube machine. It is almost zero effort to use though, and should be difficult to screw up.

installing another distro on it once you realize that's it's basically just a browser [with web apps as main applications] is a bit awful because lol no storage because you're supposed to store everything on Google Drive
also, in the event that internet goes out, the thing is a relative paperweight, but that's likely not to be an issue with her intended use case

words

It's basically no worse than a Win10 machine in that regards, or a phone [any of them, any vendor].
Which is fucking awful, but hey.

[Xyga]

I think if someone recommended Linux to my mom I'd call the cops.

[ryu]

I think if someone recommended Linux to my mom I'd call the cops.

He's completely right though. Linux isn't much harder to deal with than windows if all you do is browse the web.

[neorichieb1971]

I just want something that isn't prone to getting virus's, something that will not overheat because it runs hot and its hot anyway, something that turns on and goes pretty much to the page/screen she can identify with.

As with most technology, the lack of options is what makes things easy. Putting millions of apps and having to scroll through pages of shit is tiresome for some people. My wifes friend only uses email because someone put a shortcut on her desktop.

My son lives in the USA, so skype is needed. But apart from that some facebook usage and web browsing is all she going to do.

As for the spying shit, my mom isn't going to do anything illegal or offer any information to anyone. She hasn't even done an online purchase on her own yet (that may change).

Can you use USB's sticks and drives on a chromebook?

[null1024]

I think if someone recommended Linux to my mom I'd call the cops.

Most of the woes with a distro like say, Ubuntu are just getting all your drivers working [correctly -- almost everything will vaguely work to some extent out of the box, but you might have wifi drops because of powersave modes the driver doesn't know about/handle properly, laptop sleep still has a 1 in ten chance of just not working at all on a given machine, video acceleration might be slow because the driver isn't exactly for a given card, etc].
but basically all of that shit goes away if you've got a prebuilt machine with Linux pre-installed because it has hardware that's actually known to work properly

Can you use USB's sticks and drives on a chromebook?

Yeah.
Here's a list of all the specific stuff you can plug into and load onto a chromebook, from drives to media formats.
https://support.google.com/chromebook/a ... 3093?hl=en

[ZellSF]

Linux is more complicated to use than Chrome OS. It's also much much easier to buy a PC with Chrome OS installed.

I really wouldn't want to spend an hour setting up Linux for someone else, especially as in their mind you'll be taking more of the responsibility for the laptop if you do. Trust me, you do not want to increase the amount of cases your family asks you for tech support for.

99% of people don't give a shit about privacy, don't force them to use hardware/software that's inferior for their uses to help you in a battle they want no part of.

Tiny hard drive so it uploads your shit to the cloud.

You make it sound like that's a negative.

Google's cloud storage is more reliable than neorichieb1971 mom's handling of cheap electronic laptops.

Forcing dumb people to use cloud storage so they can't so easily lose their files is one of the positives of Chromebooks.

something that turns on and goes pretty much to the page/screen she can identify with.

That better be zombo.com.

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

I once made the mistake of setting up a Linux machine for an elderly couple. Everyone held me responsible for what happened to it, because it was made by me and not something bought from a store.

I won't go into details, but they managed to do some pretty stupid stuff even though I had the machine set up so that it launches straight into Firefox with all the news sites they wanted to read in the bookmarks toolbar, limited the amount of tabs you can have (you have no idea how moronic horny 60 year old dumbasses can be.. 100+ tabs open of the same page 3 slag photo..), ad blocker, etc.

Because not a single operating system is idiot proof my advice is: don't willingly end up in a position where an inept person can blame you and avoid taking responsibility for their own actions.

[dreadnought]

99% of people don't give a shit about privacy, don't force them to use hardware/software that's inferior for their uses to help you in a battle they want no part of.

99%, huh? That's quite a lot. I'm sure you have some hard data to back this claim up? And your advice - based on this false claim, plus another false one about the inferiority - is to force them to sign their privacy/data off to a giant corporation? Interesting.

Google's cloud storage is more reliable than neorichieb1971 mom's handling of cheap electronic laptops.

Forcing dumb people to use cloud storage so they can't so easily lose their files is one of the positives of Chromebooks.

Another choice cut. So the dumbos (sorry, mom) are again just better off forgetting about these stupid old notions regarding privacy/control/etc because there's that thing with lotsa buttons that will terrify them so much they'll wet themselves. One wonders how do they tie their shoes to start with.

Now, I get it that lots of the geeks are so entangled themselves into this brave (snigger) new world that they'll do anything to rationalize away any arguments disturbing the status quo. I kind of got used to this over the years, however the above message - insufferably patronizing & arrogant, nevermind that it's based on false assumptions - really needs a little reality check.

[null1024]

words

Mate, most people have a modern cellphone and are using either using iCloud or Google Drive or whatever already for their files [photos, music, browsing history], the device is often locked down enough to make it a pain to change OS, and this is a thing with forward and rear cameras [looking at who you are and what's around you, no hardware access light for either], microphone [recording everything you do because lol Siri/Alexa/Hey, Google! needs to pick up when you call on them -- and disk is cheap, so it's not like storing what's heard indefinitely is any challenge or struggle like it would have been 15-20 years ago, it doesn't need to be high quality, a transcription doesn't need to be totally accurate when you're listening in all the time, it just needs to be searchable], consistent internet access, GPS, etc.
also, something something the radio chip is running its own OS that you've got no control over anyway
...and despite all that above shit, the devices are ubiquitous.

also, I hate to say it, but a lot of elderly people who otherwise think and reason about things basically shut down completely when presented with a computer and stop thinking, treating the device like magic -- having dealt with this repeatedly, I stopped giving a damn

Still, Chromium OS might be a possibility if privacy from Google was a major factor in this equation [maybe, but the device still has the issue of lol storage, and there's a few other caveats like the code base being huge so if there is something sneaky inside, it may or may not go unseen, it's a much less looked at codebase [at least outside of Google] than most major Linux distros, you're still going to be running it on a Chromebook because lol drivers, it's stripped back and you'd need to find a distro that fills in the gaps, etc].

[ZellSF]

99% of people don't give a shit about privacy, don't force them to use hardware/software that's inferior for their uses to help you in a battle they want no part of.

99%, huh? That's quite a lot. I'm sure you have some hard data to back this claim up?

Of course not, I can easily give you the amount of people who visit Facebook, use Google for their searches, use Windows, use Google Chrome, have loyalty membership cards with the stores they use, use the same credit card for all their shopping, etc... but they could all be the same people.

I think it's a very reasonable assumption though.

Another choice cut. So the dumbos (sorry, mom) are again just better off forgetting about these stupid old notions regarding privacy/control/etc because there's that thing with lotsa buttons that will terrify them so much they'll wet themselves. One wonders how do they tie their shoes to start with.

Never worked in customer service have you? Lots of buttons do terrify people and I am very surprised some people manage to tie their shoes.

insufferably patronizing & arrogant, nevermind that it's based on false assumptions - really needs a little reality check.

You're the one who needs a reality check here. And you might be the arrogant one if you believe everyone will be able to handle more buttons because it's so simple. For a lot of people, it is not.

[Mischief Maker]

I once made the mistake of setting up a Linux machine for an elderly couple. Everyone held me responsible for what happened to it, because it was made by me and not something bought from a store.

I won't go into details, but they managed to do some pretty stupid stuff even though I had the machine set up so that it launches straight into Firefox with all the news sites they wanted to read in the bookmarks toolbar, limited the amount of tabs you can have (you have no idea how moronic horny 60 year old dumbasses can be.. 100+ tabs open of the same page 3 slag photo..), ad blocker, etc.

Because not a single operating system is idiot proof my advice is: don't willingly end up in a position where an inept person can blame you and avoid taking responsibility for their own actions.

I'm really curious what they did now.

[dreadnought]

Of course not, I can easily give you the amount of people who visit Facebook, use Google for their searches, use Windows, use Google Chrome, have loyalty membership cards with the stores they use, use the same credit card for all their shopping, etc... but they could all be the same people.

I think it's a very reasonable assumption though.

It isn't, just the same as your train of thought leading to it. The fact that people use these services - which is what we all do, to some extent at least (even a tinhatfoiler like me) because it'd be impossible to function on this planet otherwise - does not mean that "99% of people don't give a shit about privacy". Same answer to your *words*, null1024.

In reality, some people indeed do not - and never will - care about privacy, but I'm fairly certain a huge amount would at least consider it, if only they were presented with facts of the matter instead of a fuckton of a smallprint and also with easily found alternatives. And guess whose job -at least partially - it is to educate them? Yeah, us, the know-it-alls, the problem is - like I said before - most folk prefer the easy route of not giving a fuck.

How hard is it to tell somebody to use startpage or duck instead of *cancer*? Tutanota/Proton/etc instead of *cancer*? To stay on Win 7/8 because whats the point (your mum plays DX12 games? wow :) To use Linux because it's not 2004 anymore and you don' have to do the Matrix to handle it? To root their phone?

Sure, loads will say "nah don't bother". But not all, nosir. Which is exactly the reason why Big G just backed off from reading your emails and why Valve gave you your refunds. Maybe in your universe it's because Uncle Gaben and Good Guy Google are kind souls who bring prezzies for Xmas - okay, but in mine it's because there are still people who form groups who then lobby certain bodies against this monumental BS and who sometimes win.

Never worked in customer service have you? Lots of buttons do terrify people and I am very surprised some people manage to tie their shoes.

Only 2 years in PC and 5 in other angles. Yeah, sure there are lots of clueless folk in a given field but that's what customer service/help is there for. It never lead me to conclusion that they are imbeciles since these are often the same people who are very good in other fields - you know, the ones you yourself seek help with occasionally. And even if they aren't, so what?

You're the one who needs a reality check here. And you might be the arrogant one if you believe everyone will be able to handle more buttons because it's so simple. For a lot of people, it is not.

Nice try, trying to pretend you don't get the sarcasm and getting all righteous - the thing about the forums thou is that what you write does not disappear, like with spoken word :D So you can scroll up and have a look at your sweeping 99% generalisations and calling anybody who's not clued up in intricacies of file backup or any other particular IT detail "dumb".

I do actually apologise to the OP for getting involved in this exchange and a slight derail, usually I just move along - these, ahem, "battles" are not to be won in the strange clique-ist echo chamber world of net forums. However, the BS espoused in the posts I quoted was so huge I just could not resist.

[moh]

if you don't mind handing your testicles over to googel, then chromebooks are the shit. perfect for your use case.

even if you're super uptight about privacy, you can still nab chromebooks like the asus C201 which support libreboot/coreboot and require no proprietary drivers for ~200bux.

[Xyga]

Here's a safe 99%: it's the 99% of people who'll never get beyond being programs/apps users and who have been encouraged to install Linux because it's 'free, safer, more efficient, and tons of cool shit' that will tell you within the first days if not the first hours of their experience:
"what you can't use XXX app/program? I have to do what to make XXX work? been reading shit for days and it still doesn't work! Sudoku what!?? why won't my XXX device work? wtf is that music compilation everyone is talking about? AAAAARGH fucking resinstall my Windows/give me back my Android".

Pretty much it, unless someone has genuine interest in actual computer things and internets wisdom, motivation and free time...there's no fucking way fucking Linux will do.
Had my share of lost, disappointed, angry people too, and I'm not the only one. I never recommend Linux to anyone who hasn't been through a long, tedious, discouraging demonstration of how much different from Windows it is - has alway been - before even giving the slightest direction.
1st rule of filtering people who shouldn't approach Linux: if the person can't find, download and install whatever distro by his own means on his damn machine, I just say "okay lets stop"

I think if someone recommended Linux to my mom I'd call the cops.

He's completely right though. Linux isn't much harder to deal with than windows if all you do is browse the web.

The time when they'll need or want to do something more always comes. Always.

[Skykid]

if you don't mind handing your testicles over to googel, then chromebooks are the shit. perfect for your use case.

even if you're super uptight about privacy, you can still nab chromebooks like the asus C201 which support libreboot/coreboot and require no proprietary drivers for ~200bux.

He lives!!!

[ZellSF]

Of course not, I can easily give you the amount of people who visit Facebook, use Google for their searches, use Windows, use Google Chrome, have loyalty membership cards with the stores they use, use the same credit card for all their shopping, etc... but they could all be the same people.

I think it's a very reasonable assumption though.

It isn't, just the same as your train of thought leading to it. The fact that people use these services - which is what we all do, to some extent at least (even a tinhatfoiler like me) because it'd be impossible to function on this planet otherwise - does not mean that "99% of people don't give a shit about privacy". Same answer to your *words*, null1024.

It's very possible to function without many of them and people still choose to use them. They'll gladly hand over personal information to make their life easier, or cheaper.

Privacy is hard and expensive. It's not what people prioritize. When you're asked to make a choice for others, it is not what you should prioritize.

Nice try, trying to pretend you don't get the sarcasm and getting all righteous - the thing about the forums thou is that what you write does not disappear, like with spoken word So you can scroll up and have a look at your sweeping 99% generalisations and calling anybody who's not clued up in intricacies of file backup or any other particular IT detail "dumb".

I haven't seen any solid argument against the only 99% generalization I have made, and I obviously meant dumb in the context of this conversation: computer illiterate. No clue why you're taking so much offense by it.

The time when they'll need or want to do something more always comes. Always.

I haven't commented on this aspect yet so I just will to say this is very, very true. Both Chromebooks and Linux are "enough" for web browsing and simple stuff, but when you need a Windows application you suddenly have a huge problem. There's a real risk you'll end up either having to spend lots of time configuring WINE or returning the laptop to get a Windows device because some weird device doesn't have proper Linux drivers.

Whether that risk is enough to pay more for a cheap Windows 10 laptop in the first place over what I assume are cheaper Chromebooks is obviously up for individual consideration.

[Xyga]

My mom's got a 200 bucks Win 10 laptop that does everything most people do with a computer: using windows apps an google services.

For the maybe 10 emails she reads/sends every month, couple of hours of skype, browsing gardening tips and random cat videos or checking her account; does she need to get paranoid over privacy, of awful giant corporations and goverments spying her? fuck that.

My stepfather does more sensitive stuff so he should care an learn, but he's 70 and doesn't give a fuck.

You don' even have to be old, there's tons of people of all ages who don't care, just let them do and be happy they don't ruin your week-end(s) because someone (or yourself) pushed them to use fucking Linux.

It's not for them.

[neorichieb1971]

Firstly, I don't mind if the thread is de-railed because its all interesting even to me. I work in I.T myself but I'm cocooned on an archaic system which just uses W7 as a shell in order to get access to it. My question arises because I have never used a chromebook, but it is my choice of browser and I do use the cloud for work related matters (not my choice). So at least my mom has a tutor in the house that can direct her on whats what.

If people are more concerned to talk about the privacy aspect of the conversation thats all good too. But it will not persuade me "to not" get a chromebook for my mom. Because the alternative is using Chrome on a Windows based laptop.

It seems the world is changing so much that the kids of today are influencing the older uppers. The reason my mom wants a computer in any sense is because the only time she gets to see what my son is doing is when I scroll my phone's facebook app in front of her eyes. She wants the information first hand from her grandson. Its all about self reliance. And if it takes that to make her clued up on social media than who am I stop her?

[null1024]

Like you said, it's Chrome, but as your entire OS and shell.
As such, it's zero effort to use for basic web browsing tasks. Really, you should be able to just go to a store and try it out on a demo unit -- what you see there is basically the entire experience.

Personally, I've got no use for the things because ultimately, the entire user-exposed portion of the OS is the browser, and I still do a handful more things than browsing the web and using Google Docs [in fact, I never use Google Docs], and I really, really, really like local storage [and it helps that disk is cheap, the cost per GB is pretty dang low, you really should have at least 64GB onboard storage on anything these days, no one should be offering any large-ish device with less, cloud or not].

For privacy, it's no worse [but absolutely no better] than a common smartphone, and you saw my list on that earlier.
jiiiiiiiiiii~

If you do get her a Chromebook, avoid Acer due to sheer lack of build quality -- I've had two Acer netbooks before, one with hinge issues, one developed power port issues [and then stopped working completely, it's lying around stone dead and I scavenged the ram and the disk and put it in the other one], the other is missing both hinges and out of laziness I duct-taped the thing together. I don't use the machine as a main one anymore, but it's still lying around. Kind of mad about the other one, because it was a good three times faster than the surviving one.
Things like speed and RAM still matter, since you're still running Chrome, which is heavy as fuck. Sure, Chrome is considered fast, and you're literally running it on a purpose built machine with a purpose built operating system, but that doesn't mean it's not a total resource hog.

...and apparently some models support Android apps from the Play Store even [so there's at least some light at the tunnel if there's any interest in expanding just past a web browser and having some local programs], here's a list:
https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org ... droid-apps
if you were interested, this would make things like local storage important, android apps are fat, you don't want to have to deal with her running out of space