Console WARS: SFC vs MD vs TOWNS vs PCE vs ETC

[FinalBaton]

Why?

The answer to that is simple. It's "because of how early they came out".

Strider and Ghouls 'n Ghosts, both beautiful ports, came out respectively in 1990 and 1989. Can you imagine how big of an impression they made on console gamers? Getting arcade ports that look that detailed in fall of 1990 and summer of 89 must have been very impressive, and given a true "we finally have a legit arcade-at-home experience" feeling. That positive impression must have stuck with gamers to this day, which is very understandable.

[Xyga]

Yes but I'm talking about later arcade games then ported to 16-bit systems. The SNES definitely won with those, and frankly in 89 and 90 I didn't know many kids who owned an MD and lusted over arcade ports, it's a year later with Sonic that sales skyrocketed and you know it.

PS: though to be fair even if the SNES had the most quality arcade ports, it's not like most kids were digging those specifically, exclusive developed games were always the shit anyway.

[FinalBaton]

and frankly in 89 and 90 I didn't know many kids who owned an MD and lusted over arcade ports

just because this is your personnal experience, doesn't mean it applies to most people
"me and my neighbors weren't interested in arcade ports back then, so nobody was" the balls on you...

besides, the Megadrive still has more arcade ports than just the very early stuff

[Skykid]

SFC had exclusive, refined games custom-built by sandwich artists meant for home consumption. All the SEGABOX had was, was ports of games that had better versions in the arcade. SEGA's fate to devolve into the pitiful beast capable of squeezing out Sonic 2006 was carved in stone from the start

not sure if the above is just obvious troll being obvious but.. *deep inhale*

Code: Select all

alien soldier
dynamite heady
gunstar heroes
light crusader
castlevania bloodlines / vampire killer
contra hard corps
rocket knight adventures
musha aleste
robo aleste
ex-ranza
crusader of centy
granada
pulseman
monster world 3
monster world 4
sonic
sonic cd
sonic 2
sonic 3 & knuckles
ristar
phantasy star 2
phantasy star 3
phantasy star 4
shining in the darkness
shining force
shining force 2
shining force cd
landstalker
super shinobi
super shinobi 2
bare knuckle
bare knuckle 2
bare knuckle 3
beyond oasis
sword of vermilion
fatal labyrinth
ecco
ecco 2
vectorman
vectorman 2
comix zone
toejam & earl
lunar silver star story
lunar eternal blue
super fantasy zone
panorama cotton
thunderforce 2 md
thunderforce 3
thunderforce 4
herzog zwei
elemental master
undead line
twinkle tale
assault suit leynos
gleylancer
gynoug
battle mania
battle mania daiginjou
magical hat no buttobi / decapattack
alisia dragoon
keio flying squadron
bari-arm
gaiares
steel empire
sub-terrania
shadowrun
castle of illusion

*exhale*...

i really can't pick a favorite between the md, sfc, and pce. gun to my head i'd probably go with the md simply b/c i feel its library is the most well rounded of the 3. tho in terms of stg's imo pce/cd definitely has (at least) a slight edge over the md/cd.

A good list for a great console, but I feel some of those detract from the point. They're not all first class games. Ecco is crap, never cared for Toejam and Earl at all and many others fall into almost average territory. What this does show is that you can list a bunch of the MD's best and most memorable in a fairly short list. Do it with the SFC and it will be three times longer - and that's what a lot of people were getting at all along.

[BryanM]

Genesis came out 2 years earlier than the SNES, and back then a year was like an eternity. The only country it did substantially worse than the SNES in was Japan (perhaps because they're a more urban country with more trafficked arcades, making those early games less attractive to them?)

On every technical front the Master System blew the NES away; if SEGA were more competent and Nintendo a little less ruthless, we could be living in a universe where Nintendo was the one who gave up on consoles.

Besides Sonic, how many Sega ip's from the 80's to mid 90's even still exist?

[Squire Grooktook]

A lot of the decision comes down to what you enjoy. I find the MD and PCE have more arcade style short games that can be completed in 20/30mins. The Snes, generally, had bigger games that took longer to get through.

Maybe if we factor in every single arcade imperfect port of a mediocre stg, sure. MD then gains a slightly bigger arcadey library, for whatever that's worth.

But putting aside such a prospect, the Snes wasn't "generally for bigger games" compared to the MD, and I have no idea where you're getting that one from. It's bursting to the seems with excellent "arcade style" 20/30 minute games.

If you prefer the best arcade style games on the MD over the SNES, that's one thing. But statements like this make me think you simply aren't that familiar with the snes library. Which would be a shame considering how many all-time classic arcadey blasters call it home.


I enjoy rpg's and such but I give very little fucks about the 16 bit and under titles these days. The Snes is my (very close, admittedly) pick sheerly by the virtue of it's short, tight, action game library.

[qmish]

For me it's weird to see such many snes fans at one place because, well, where i grew up, snes wasnt popular at all I have favorite games from all three platforms though, and i cant say i "can" pick one over another because i havent played all what i need to yet...

[Xyga]

and frankly in 89 and 90 I didn't know many kids who owned an MD and lusted over arcade ports

just because this is your personnal experience, doesn't mean it applies to most people
"me and my neighbors weren't interested in arcade ports back then, so nobody was" the balls on you...

You're missing something crucial, I was older than you by 4~5 years at the time, naturally more aware, starting middle school and the arcades revival+16bit boom was more in my reach, right when it happened.
Fact is my video gaming dick (as well as the real one) was bigger than yours (my allowance also certainly) and there's nothing you can do about that because you can't fight greater experience of live events. Deal with it boi.

And yeah I can tell Sonic talked to 10yo kids. Alien Storm, Truxton, or GnG not so much... And later it's only at least CPS1-level and Neo Geo stuff that grabbed attention when it came to ports.

Arcade ports in any case and whatever the machine were always a difficult thing to appreciate for everyone, whether it was in regards to fidelity or worthy 'adaptation'.
Basically we were interested in big badass sprites, fluid animation and graphic violence more than anything, if a port didn't have that there was little chance it would divert our focus on platform-specific developed games and extra-gaming-world licensed shit.

[FinalBaton]

some drivel

you're too funny man You gotta be trolling in this thread. And if not... well that's quite the attitude you have.

I'm outta this thread. See you around on the site. No hard feelings

[Xyga]

No way, it's serious business !

[Sumez]

EDIT: Oops missed an entire extra page that I didnt notice before posting. Adding a quote for context:

The said arcade~ish tonality of the MD's library is a bizarre thing since it's not really because of the actual arcade ports (decent but of older games) nor an overwhelming presence of popular VS fighters which are one of the major genres if not the most important in the history of actual arcades.
The SNES is more and better furnished if we're talking arcad-ey games.
Yet some people were even calling the MD the Neo Geo of the poor. Why?

Could it be because of a library highlight on manlier-atmospheres/themed games, faster paced stuff and the good+impressive exclusives? Plus the genre gems a la SoR2 and TFIV that emphasized this, and the early communication from SEGA that pushed forward the arcades DNA of the machine?
Also I was thinking it's probably because of the clearer picture (at least in RGB Land) and sound overall, as opposite to the SNES's blurry and muffled feel.

The SNES has a pretty rockin' RGB picture I'd say.

I don't think there's any doubt that the MegaDrive has a bigger focus on arcade'y titles, which is especially evident when you see how few carts actually have save RAM compared to the SNES. But whenever people talk about that they tend to forget to how many arcade'ish titles (both originals and ports) also exist for the SNES. Its library is just stupidly vast.

I'd say the PC Engine is more of a poor man's Neo Geo than the MD is.

[Leandro]

The only country it did substantially worse than the SNES in was Japan (perhaps because they're a more urban country with more trafficked arcades, making those early games less attractive to them?)

Interesting observation, I've always wanted to know why the Mega Drive wasn't liked in Japan, I think there are more motives, anyone who lived in Japan can elucidate??

[Skykid]

Why?

The answer to that is simple. It's "because of how early they came out".

Strider and Ghouls 'n Ghosts, both beautiful ports.

Please don't start name dropping Strider as a Mega Drive big gun. It was hugely impressive for the time, but that port is flawed as fuck, as was elaborated on considerably in one of the Strider threads. I cleared arcade Strider multiple times and I just can't play MD Strider with any kind of conviction when the game's bugs are always threatening to rip me off from one moment to the next.

[charlie chong]

Yet some people were even calling the MD the Neo Geo of the poor

i don't remember this at all.. the first load of neo geo games were thought of as awful and pretty much laughed at.true for a home console the graphics were impressive but they never drew players away from other arcade titles from capcom/konami etc. i never saw anyone playing the multislots till stuff like samurai shodown 2,king of fighters era when the games actually became good and the megadrive was but a couple of years away from death at that point
so yeah you full of shit

[qmish]

early neo games are underrated!111

[BryanM]

Interesting observation, I've always wanted to know why the Mega Drive wasn't liked in Japan, I think there are more motives

It not having Dragon Quest on it probably cost them a million or two sales.

One other thing I don't think a lot of people think about is how extremely biased towards 10+ yo males the Genesis library is, or at least seems to be. The pack-in game for the longest time was one where you transformed into a werewolf and ripped the arms off of zombies.

Is there even an answer to Harvest Moon on that box? What was the visual novel/dating sim ratio between the systems? How many more women per capita in Japan are into jRPGs (possibly... due to the success of Dragon Quest?) versus the rest of the world?

[trap15]

MD almost certainly didn't catch on in JP because they already had the PCE (which was visually more impressive than any early MD games), and by the time MD could've started counting the SFC came out. That's my impression anyways.

[qmish]

The pack-in game for the longest time was one where you transformed into a werewolf and ripped the arms off of zombies.

And the problem is...? Altered Beast is so-so because how it plays, not because its concept.

[Xyga]

Yet some people were even calling the MD the Neo Geo of the poor

i don't remember this at all.. the first load of neo geo games were thought of as awful and pretty much laughed at.true for a home console the graphics were impressive but they never drew players away from other arcade titles from capcom/konami etc. i never saw anyone playing the multislots till stuff like samurai shodown 2,king of fighters era when the games actually became good and the megadrive was but a couple of years away from death at that point
so yeah you full of shit

What are you talking about? did I say they'd call it that at the time? same as calling the MD's library 'arcade-like', that came late. people making all sorts of comparisons with retro games and hardwares never stopped. you don't remember it was called that sometimes but yeah I did hear/read that several times. who's talking shit.

[Ex_Mosquito]

A lot of the decision comes down to what you enjoy. I find the MD and PCE have more arcade style short games that can be completed in 20/30mins. The Snes, generally, had bigger games that took longer to get through.

Maybe if we factor in every single arcade imperfect port of a mediocre stg, sure. MD then gains a slightly bigger arcadey library, for whatever that's worth.

But putting aside such a prospect, the Snes wasn't "generally for bigger games" compared to the MD, and I have no idea where you're getting that one from. It's bursting to the seems with excellent "arcade style" 20/30 minute games.

If you prefer the best arcade style games on the MD over the SNES, that's one thing. But statements like this make me think you simply aren't that familiar with the snes library. Which would be a shame considering how many all-time classic arcadey blasters call it home.


I enjoy rpg's and such but I give very little fucks about the 16 bit and under titles these days. The Snes is my (very close, admittedly) pick sheerly by the virtue of it's short, tight, action game library.

The PCE and MD have their fair share of original Shooters than significantly outshine the Snes' library of shooters, for this reason alone I will always favour the MD, or more specifically the PCE. Also I am very familiar with the Snes library, I have owned one since 91' (with a Wildcard), I also owned a MD in 90' and a PCE in 92', and the Snes always has always had the least play from me. The PCE and MD just have the style of games I prefer to play. I disagree that the Snes can compete with the MD and PCE as regards to having as many 20/30min games, i doesn't. The Snes is great for meaty platformers, action and RPGs, but I can't play games for hours without getting restless, it's not my style. That's why the PCE appeals so much to my personal gaming habits.

[Perikles]

The PCE and MD have their fair share of original Shooters than significantly outshine the Snes' library of shooters, for this reason alone I will always favour the MD, or more specifically the PCE.

No, they don't. You're e.g. not going to find anything similar to Pop'n TwinBee's or R-Type III's second loop among either the PCE's or MD's library of console-exclusives, BioMetal is easily among the best 16-bit shmups, so are Macross and Darius Force. Super Aleste (namely on higher difficulty settings) is much better crafted than several other similar titles (say, Gunhed) and there are a handful of above average to good games as well (like Cotton 100%, Flying Hero, Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius and Kidou Soukou Dion). The SFC also has several strong horizontal arcade ports, the Parodius Da! port in particular has almost no competition in that area.

Depending on your taste, you might prefer the MD or the PCE when it comes to shooters. I would concede in a second that the MD is stronger overall (weaker on the horizontal front, considerably better in the vertical department due to all the Toaplan games) even though I personally prefer the SFC which - aside from the PCE Konami ports - has most of the best horizontals, especially if you care about higher loops. But I'm honestly baffled by those absolute statements on this forum of all things, the SFC can hold its ground against the other 16-bit systems just fine when it comes to this genre.

[Squire Grooktook]

The Snes is great for meaty platformers, action and RPGs

Is it? How many "meaty platformers" were there even on the snes? That level of content always seemed like the minority rather than the majority in any part of the 8-16 bit world.

I can think of lots of sidescrollers on the snes, some not exactly arcade intense (Capcom's Mickey Mouse games come to mind immediately), but I'm struggling to think of more than a handful that take longer than 20-60 minutes to complete. Likewise, this image of the super nes as an rpg machine of all things seems really strange. It has several of the most influential series of the era on board, but aside from those, it's not exactly swimming in rpg's compared to other genres either. A lot of of it's rpg's outside of the big ones (Shin Megami Tensei comes to mind) were import only anyway and thus off-limits to english-speakers till the mid 2000's.

It's a well rounded machine with something for everybody, but to say it's biased towards rpg's or long games seems like a massive stretch. Like I said, if you simply prefer the arcade-style games on the md to those on the snes, that's fine. But either way the snes has enough quality titles of that medium to last decades of play. I've owned the thing since childhood and I still have a long-ass laundry list of such games to explore in addition to the long-ass list of ones that I have and enjoy.

[BryanM]

Likewise, this image of the super nes as an rpg machine of all things seems really strange.

It's a well rounded machine with something for everybody, but to say it's biased towards rpg's or long games seems like a massive stretch.

I don't think anyone is saying its exclusively this or that, just that it had them.

[Squire Grooktook]

That's how I took Mosquito's post, but eh maybe I misread.

[Xyga]

Only if we compare it to other libraries then it is swimming in RPGs, but that's combining all subgenres even just loosely related including point and click or puzzle-centric, and knowing most were only released in Japan indeed.

The RPG-dedicated French website legendra lists about 300 games for JP region only, of those;
136 c-rpg
41 t-rpg
39 a-rpg
26 s-rpg
13 d-rpg
etc

But yeah sticking close to the more traditional RPG formula (we can remove s-rpg à la sangokushi maybe) even if we add the few non-JP exclusives it is definitely not that prominent a genre in the library, I mean out of the ~2500 known games.

[WelshMegalodon]

I'd just like to thank Skykid and Perikles for recommending Undercover Cops SFC and Gokujou Parodius SFC, respectively. Despite some severe slowdown on the part of the latter, both ports are as excellent as they were made out to be.

[BryanM]

Remember how Aladdin on the Genesis gave you a sword and you ran around violently dismembering people, while in the SNES version you just gently bopped them on the head with an apple or a hop?

Culture differences!

[qmish]

Aladdin on Genesis is damn masterpiece. Level design is genious. SNES version is such a let down


For me, of course

[Sumez]

Why do people talk about these games like they are two versions of the same game? This is worse than people talking about Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts like it's the "SNES version" of Ghouls 'n Ghosts.

One Aladdin is an American production, the other is a Capcom game, no relation at all aside from the license source. Capcom didn't give Aladdin a sword because it's completely out of character for him to be running around killing stuff with one, not because the game was a SNES game.
The MegaDrive game is better IMO because it's much more varied and creative, but I can't blame people for preferring Capcom's game which has much more tight and well balanced gameplay. It's just really boring, short and super easy.

[Skykid]

Aladdin on Genesis is damn masterpiece. Level design is genious. SNES version is such a let down


For me, of course

I thought neither were masterpieces, but I always felt the Capcom game was far superior to the Mega Drive version.