Questions that do not deserve a thread

[Xyga]

Is it with a 1080p bodnar? What's your display's base lag? (only top bar we don't need th others)

EDIT: don't go through the trouble of posting pics, if you tell the parameters and the resulting figures it's all fine.

It's in the pics, mate.

No it isn't, I need to know you display's base lag and what bodnar you used. Also is there an OSSC in the chain?

[orange808]

Is it with a 1080p bodnar? What's your display's base lag? (only top bar we don't need th others)

EDIT: don't go through the trouble of posting pics, if you tell the parameters and the resulting figures it's all fine.

It's in the pics, mate.

No it isn't, I need to know you display's base lag and what bodnar you used. Also is there an OSSC in the chain?

Updated it, mate. New and improved with captions.

No, I don't add superfluous devices to my device chain when I'm testing lag. I sense a condecending tone and it's starting to grind.

[orange808]

Anyhow, the additional delay from the vp50pro pushes the total latency past a frame--and that sticks out like a sore thumb in camera tests.

vp50 delivers 21.5ms at the middle number. Subtract the ~8ms the CRT needs to draw to the same point, and you get under a frame of difference--about 14.5ms.

vp50pro does 25.5ms. Subtract ~8ms and we have ~17ms difference.

The delay increase falls where the camera can see it unambiguously in the 240p test suite. If my display had a little more or less lag, it would have been harder to detect on camera.

[BuckoA51]

My 50 Pro is giving around 6ms with a 720p Leo Bodnar tester

top bar 35.3
mid 36.8
bot 38

(Should probably clarify my TVs base lag without the 50 pro is around 30ms)

[Xyga]

No, I don't add superfluous devices to my device chain when I'm testing lag. I sense a condecending tone and it's starting to grind.

You're imagining it 'mate', but I could say I've been sensing a defiant tone for while coming from you and I can't explain it.
Are you perhaps joining the "members who assume lenghts of BS Xyga actually never said" hate club ?

Actually I'm trying to figure what's going on because something is definitely wrong, something must explain that discrepancy. But hey if you think you've discovered something, if you're definitive about it, and can't stand that someone is not convinced and wants to research it as thoroughly as possible with you, then go on and state 'this is the final conclusion, the truth period'.

You know this reminds me when I've found about the increased lag on the EDGE, I'm sure Bucko51 was pissed at me, although rationally I have nothing to do with it (I didn't design it lol)

One thing I know is that one needs to be very thorough and detail all the conditions of the testing and tools, like wih the LB tester for instance, I'm insistent it's ben a fucking mess since that device has been available; people using only the middle bar, or bottom, without fucking telling, or using different output versions, not stating the display's specs etc. You think I am annoying? Well all of this matters. Not my fault if people think they've been through trial-and-error better than anyone else even those who have been doing this longer than them, and take the risk of assuming wrong things.
Good luck with your research (or not, if you think you've seen it all)

[orange808]

My 50 Pro is giving around 6ms with a 720p Leo Bodnar tester

top bar 35.3
mid 36.8
bot 38

Thanks for testing.

Sounds like my unit has an issue.

I've tried a new power supply, different cables, different displays, both analog and digital outputs, and different sources.

I use three fans on top of the vp50pro that pull air out of the vent area towards the rear of the device. I keep the vp50pro suspended in a short space with nothing above or below it. It has room to breathe and the bottom rear right of the unit doesn't get any warmer than my cat's belly.

I guess I'm going to chalk this up to the general madness of these vp50pros.

Mine must be a bad unit.

[orange808]

No, I don't add superfluous devices to my device chain when I'm testing lag. I sense a condecending tone and it's starting to grind.

You're imagining it 'mate', but I could say I've been sensing a defiant tone for while coming from you and I can't explain it.
Are you perhaps joining the "members who assume lenghts of BS Xyga actually never said" hate club ?

Actually I'm trying to figure what's going on because something is definitely wrong, something must explain that discrepancy. But hey if you think you've discovered something, if you're definitive about it, and can't stand that someone is not convinced and wants to research it as thoroughly as possible with you, then go on and state 'this is the final conclusion, the truth period'.

You know this reminds me when I've found about the increased lag on the EDGE, I'm sure Bucko51 was pissed at me, although rationally I have nothing to do with it (I didn't design it lol)

One thing I know is that one needs to be very thorough and detail all the conditions of the testing and tools, like wih the LB tester for instance, I'm insistent it's ben a fucking mess since that device has been available; people using only the middle bar, or bottom, without fucking telling, or using different output versions, not stating the display's specs etc. You think I am annoying? Well all of this matters. Not my fault if people think they've been through trial-and-error better than anyone else even those who have been doing this longer than them, and take the risk of assuming wrong things.
Good luck with your research (or not, if you think you've seen it all)

Running the Leo Bodnar directly to the display and then adding the DVDO between is the only sensible way to test.

How would I even use a OSSC? Did you think I used a Tendak or HDFury to get RGBHV to feed the OSSC and chained that back to the DVDO? C'mon man, that's crazy.

Regardless, my unit is bad. I also mentioned I have spent months trying to work this out. I'm not looking for "try another cord" or "try resetting it". I did that.

Regardless, it sounds like I have a finicky unit.

[Xyga]

No that's not what I meant, why would you think so? I'm trying to put my finger on something because I know a million things can go wrong and I find very, very bizarre that those 4ms would come out of... of what? A fucked capacitor? A different chip? a different behaviour than the other VPs with different color spaces nobody has noticed? A corrupt firmware? Why exactly 4ms? What are the results on a different display? And more and more.

You may have been on this for months but there's always the possibility that someone will think of something you didn't. And you haven't told us much about what you did all this time anyway.
You know how you do it 100 times and it works the 101th because of that 1 little shit thing you've overlooked? it fucking happens. Ask many people here.
The good advisers ask for a ton of details, and they doubt, doubt, search and search and ask more, == but you assume you don't need to bother with it then act condescending. Like...an overconfident noob would do.
Wrong process 'mate'.

[orange808]

No that's not what I meant, why would you think so? I'm trying to put my finger on something because I know a million things can go wrong and I find very, very bizarre that those 4ms would come out of... of what? A fucked capacitor? A different chip? a different behaviour than the other VPs with different color spaces nobody has noticed? A corrupt firmware? Why exactly 4ms? What are the results on a different display? And more and more.

You may have been on this for months but there's always the possibility that someone will think of something you didn't. And you haven't told us much about what you did all this time anyway.
You know how you do it 100 times and it works the 101th because of that 1 little shit thing you've overlooked? it fucking happens. Ask many people here.
The good advisers ask for a ton of details, and they doubt, doubt, search and search and ask more, == but you assume you don't need to bother with it then act condescending. Like...an overconfident noob would do.
Wrong process 'mate'.

Feel better?

Yes, the unit is consistently too slow on Vizio D series, BenQ, and Dell LCD. Consistently slow on a pair of Phillips VGA displays and my recently deceased Sony VGA display. Already on latest firmware. Different cables didn't help. Power supply is properly rated and new one didnt help. The unit stays cool; I knew it needed it's own rack space before I got it--and planned accordingly. I already tried adjusting the device and the display. Tried different lighting while testing with the Bodnar. Camera tests with HiDefNES are virtually identical to chaining RGB comsoles through the OSSC.

Most troubling: My iScan vp50 performed as expected under identical circumstances. It's a mystery to me.

I don't know what's going on. ** I do know that two other people confirmed 6ms on their vp50pro units. ** Given the troubleshooting I've done, that leaves me suspecting a hardware issue with this DVDO unit.

If you have a theory or solution, I'd like to hear it. Right now, I have no explanation. Other than the delay, the unit shows no signs of failure--and the unit remains my daily driver.

----------

Also, I got the run around from a tech support guy for another processor this morning, so it's pushing my buttons. I'm just being pissy. Yes, I have been on my very best behavior with them(I know that's hard to believe). But, that story isn't ready to share just yet. We'll see what happens when I hear back from them. The processor in question is missing expectations by multiple frames. I didn't enjoy hearing it was my cords.

------

Not your fault. Still can't figure out how this DVDO got slow, but it is slow.

[Xer Xian]

@Xyga: Alright, I cancelled my previous order and bought the Digitus adapter instead. I realized that the PCI card I linked earlier might still be built around an FTDI chipset so I'll just go for the cheaper and most convenient one you suggested.

On another note, about the Leo Bodnar thingy - anyone knows what resolution the 720p version outputs exactly? I'd like to test out a 1280x1024 monitor, and it won't sync to a 1366x768 signal. On the other hand, I would be interested if it outputs 1280x720.

[orange808]

On another note, about the Leo Bodnar thingy - anyone knows what resolution the 720p version outputs exactly? I'd like to test out a 1280x1024 monitor, and it won't sync to a 1366x768 signal. On the other hand, I would be interested if it outputs 1280x720.

Yes. The 720p Leo Bodnar is 1280x720.

[Xyga]

Feel better?

I just hope you got why our exchange went wrong.

If you have a theory or solution, I'd like to hear it. Right now, I have no explanation.

Me neither, if the hardware and software design are identical accross all manufactured units, it makes no sense.
And the thought that a component gone bad would increase the delay by a fixed 4ms is disturbing.
The 720pvs1080p timer discrepancy woud have been a field to explore if only Bucko51 hadn't confirmed he gets 6ms under the same conditions.

Btw I've noticed your LB is reading 2ms more than Rting's, I know brightness level can make a ~2ms difference, or here it's the greater scaling steps, dunno.
That sort of shit bugs me too, same hardware and software: not supposed to show any discrepancy if the test and tools are the same.

[orange808]

Btw I've noticed your LB is reading 2ms more than Rting's, I know brightness level can make a ~2ms difference, or here it's the greater scaling steps, dunno.
That sort of shit bugs me too, same hardware and software: not supposed to show any discrepancy if the test and tools are the same.

A firmware update added additional delay to the Vizio a few months back. There has been a couple updates since, so I think the change is permanent.

As for the DVDO, it makes no sense. Now, I'm worried it's going to die on me.

[Esper]

Hello. I am moving a big, beautiful, aged CRT TV upstairs (nothing special - Sylvania 6432GG A, 32'') and would like to know where to start on certain topics:

• What to be careful of when opening/cleaning a CRT (or even when to consider the action in the first place)? This is inherited from my grandfather and tested in the room it was stored; nice picture.
• How long should the wait times before turning off, tilting CRT, and turning on be? I am asking about TATE, if that wasn't very useful. More on that: how can I tell if a screen is not compatible with TATE in the least? Should I even consider TATE if there exist vents on the sides of the television?
• If a CRT lacks picture stretch / compress settings and a game also lacks these settings, how do I adjust picture "manually" if possible?
• How far from a hard disk should the CRT be? Because my CRT is going to be within close proximity to my main computer and maybe my Xbox 360, I am concerned of possible damage that the TV would cause as a result of its degaussing mechanism.

If this is too nonspecific for this thread, then I assume the appropriate follow-up for that would be for me to make a thread about this and go into more detail?

[fluffymadness]

Hi guys. I'm planning to build a vewlix clone out of wood. I'll use my xbox 360 on it, and probably also a pc in the future.
Now I'm looking for suitable monitors.
Basic Tasks: Streetfighter, Supersmash, Senko no Ronde, Tekken, and also extremely important shmups (Aikatana for example)

I've narrowed down my choice to two different monitors and simply can't decide ^^

https://www.amazon.com/LG-32MP58HQ-P-32 ... op?ie=UTF8
This would be aprox. the same size as a vewlix screen. Basically this size for this price is a blast
The datasheet tells me 5ms response time, it has adjustable response time via osd and a game mode color profile.
The thing I'm worried about is the input lag when it comes to shmups and fighting games.
Does anyone have this monitor ?

https://www.amazon.de/Acer-Monitor-Disp ... B01K4UKA00
(Budget Freesync Monitor with 1ms Response Time, where I don't find any review for input lag measurement...but I guess the Acer Monitors are overall very good in terms of lag?)
I guess when it comes to input lag, this would probably be a safer choice to the above one, also with ghosting.

Any input is appreciated

[accaris]

I'm running into a weird problem with Mega Man 1 and 2 for NES. In both games, certain music tracks have a lot of audio crackling/popping in them. At first I thought it was something wrong with my setup, speakers, maybe the console itself. But I went over to a buddy's house, and HIS copies both do the same thing! He has a straight composite into CRT setup, nothing fancy. It's only happening on Mega Man games and we noticed it a little bit on Bubble Bobble as well.

What could this possibly be? AC adapter going bad giving dirty power? Something with the cartridge itself? Coupling capacitor, or even mask ROMs going bad?

[Einzelherz]

Given that the constant is your system, I highly doubt it's the cartridges. I'd open it up and look around for any loose or corroded connections.

[accaris]

Given that the constant is your system, I highly doubt it's the cartridges. I'd open it up and look around for any loose or corroded connections.

Just to clarify, my friend's copies do the same thing on his system as well.

[Einzelherz]

Given that the constant is your system, I highly doubt it's the cartridges. I'd open it up and look around for any loose or corroded connections.

Just to clarify, my friend's copies do the same thing on his system as well.

Then there are no consistent controls between the tests?

Is it possible you two have aged over 35 since you last played these games? (This is not a terribly serious question.)

[Jelster64]

Hey, I recently got the official Nintendo S-Video cables for my Wii and I tried them out on my JVC TM-H150C. It works fine, until start the 240p test suite. The screen goes totally crazy. It's black and white and it's really flickery, almost like it's desynced. Here's a video of it happening. As you can see in the video, changing the resolution in the menu changes the flickery pattern, but none of them are usable. I've also tried this with all the PAL resolutions (off camera) and they had similar results.

The weirdest thing is that I only have this problem in the 240p test suite. I've never encountered it in any game or any menu, only in the 240p test suite. Manually switching the TV mode between NTSC and PAL changes the flickery pattern, but it doesn't get rid of it. Also, the 240p test suite does behave like normal when it's hooked up through composite. Does anyone know how I can get the 240p test suite to work with my S-Video cables?

[Guspaz]

240p Wii output seems to be a bit different. Wii -> GARO -> OSSC works perfectly fine for me on 480i and 480p, but 240p has all sorts of desync issues. This is a problem with the GARO rather than the OSSC, but the fact that 480i works fine indicates there's something different about 240p.

[Jelster64]

I don't think that's the case, because it displays 240p VC games just fine.

[Ikaruga11]

What is "clean" electricity? How do I get "clean" electricity? Can "dirty" electricity damage my electronics or hinder performance?

Is it best to plug a game system to an extension cord, power strip or straight into the wall?

[Einzelherz]

I wash all my electrical outlets and power supplies in the dishwasher once a month to keep my electricity clean. Most people only do it annually but I'm sensitive to electricity lag.

[werk91]

I've only come across this term to do with DAC devices as USB can and does add a lot of extra noise in the signal when it's a subpar quality cable. Hence why there's USB dongles with a simple circuit inside that "strips" a lot of the garbage. Mind you a lot of this depends on too many factors and can be very subjective. As for normal AC cables yes there's also super expensive "clean" power leads that people will use to power amplifiers etc but we're entering audiophile territory where after someone has spend 3,4k$ on gear they still try to improve every single bit of the chain more and more in search for the ultimate sound quality. For video applications I'd say spend your money somewhere else.

[Ikaruga11]

I wash all my electrical outlets and power supplies in the dishwasher once a month to keep my electricity clean. Most people only do it annually but I'm sensitive to electricity lag.

So it's a non-existent issue? Thanks. One less thing for me to worry about in my quest for perfect image and audio quality.

I've only come across this term to do with DAC devices as USB can and does add a lot of extra noise in the signal when it's a subpar quality cable. Hence why there's USB dongles with a simple circuit inside that "strips" a lot of the garbage. Mind you a lot of this depends on too many factors and can be very subjective. As for normal AC cables yes there's also super expensive "clean" power leads that people will use to power amplifiers etc but we're entering audiophile territory where after someone has spend 3,4k$ on gear they still try to improve every single bit of the chain more and more in search for the ultimate sound quality. For video applications I'd say spend your money somewhere else.

Hmm, so this is mostly prevalent in digital-to-analog conversion devices? I didn't know that USB could add noise to a signal. What should I look out for? I have a USB Flash Drive on my Wii U for extra memory and the official GameCube Controller Adapter uses USB as well. Power leads? I'm just wondering if high quality HDMI and RGB cales will introduce any noise or not if I have "dirty" power. So this doesn't matter for image quality? Just audio quality?

So my brother has two Nintendo 64s. One is in kinda bad shape with rust spots on some of the metal plates and cartridge slot that I tried to remove with vinegar, and the other he bought yesterday at a flea market which looks almost mint condition. Last night we tried hooking them both up two different CRTs (one in his room and one in the garage). It was quite hard to get a picture and sound up for both systems on both CRTs (blowing cartridges and turning power on and off multiple times). We tried plugging into a power strip and directly into the wall, but nothing changed. The strange thing is we were able to play games on those N64s on those CRTs before, and even played on the upstairs CRT earlier in the day yesterday before it seemingly stopped working.

We easily got both N64s working on the LCD HDTV in the basement using Composite, but it's obviously not an ideal solution.
EDIT: Just got the rusty N64 working on the CRT upstairs.

Do you think this is an N64 problem (shorted-out, overheated), TV problem (dust, dirty contacts) or a power supply problem (not enough power)?

[Xer Xian]

Yes. The 720p Leo Bodnar is 1280x720.

Thanks! I'll have to consider buying one of these now.

---

@Esper: I personally would never tilt a 32" CRT (it's just too much of a hassle), but I don't think vents on the sides should dissuade you if you want to give it a go. I would worry more about internal components that may not be firmly anchored and stability/sturdiness of the frame while on its side. Can't help you much with your other questions, maybe you'll be able to find some relevant info on this CRT FAQ.

@Jelster64: That's a weird issue. If you have a way of loading the 240p test suite on the Gamecube, try that - I have a JVC TM-H150CG as well and it worked fine through S-video (official cable, NTSC console: link). Unfortunately I can't test it on the Wii since I don't have one.

[Ikaruga11]

Do the Funtastic (colored semi-transparent) Nintendo 64s really have better Composite and S-Video output?

https://youtu.be/qpy1M6v2_MI?t=7m29s
https://youtu.be/EXOucQvvWAI?t=3m6s
http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Fo ... 7363768/1/








The sharper and brighter image looks like the hardware-based blur was removed. I've heard this superior Composite and S-Video output isn't just found on colored Nintendo 64s, but any model with a CPU-08 motherboard Revision. Is this true? If so, then you're looking for consoles with NS277xxx.

[Einzelherz]

1. You're not in europe.
2. Who cares about composite and S-Video?

[Ikaruga11]

1. You're not in europe.
2. Who cares about composite and S-Video?

So this is PAL only?

It's not for me, but my brother.