Console WARS: SFC vs MD vs TOWNS vs PCE vs ETC

[Skykid]

There's no way C4 wins over Bloodlines. There's just no way.

Bloodlines wins that matchup and that's that. You need to accept this and move on

Don't be a child. I already explained the two games are significantly different and for what reasons. I didn't claim either was better than the other at any point, I signalled their pros and cons. Your election that Bloodlines is a flat out winner is based on favouring an arcade game, and I disagree both with the weight of your conviction and the reasons for it.

[FinalBaton]

There's no way C4 wins over Bloodlines. There's just no way.

Bloodlines wins that matchup and that's that. You need to accept this and move on

Don't be a child. I already explained the two games are significantly different and for what reasons. I didn't claim either was better than the other at any point, I signalled their pros and cons. Your election that Bloodlines is a flat out winner is based on favouring an arcade game, and I disagree both with the weight of your conviction and the reasons for it.

I'm not the only one saying that. As stated in my post, Bloodlines got the nod over CV4 in the action thread.

[Strider77]

Oh.... and speaking beating the dead horse of Contra 3 vs Hard Corps.

HC has is quite a popular choice on here believe it or not. I mean, if we are gonna go with who's the most popular girl in school route.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... lit=contra

C4's soundtrack is beautiful; one of the SFC's best. It's brilliantly composed and themed across all of its tracks, and elevates the game considerably. It's one of C4's strongest assets.

The soundtrack is what elevates that game for me. It's atmosphere is through the roof and a HUGE portion of that is due to the OST. I do agree with alot of the complaints with the game but it's got an outstanding vibe. Out of ALL the the things to complain over, the OST to C4?!? WTF?

This is coming from a guy who prefers the MD and it's synth. It's also coming from someone who's first game OST purchase was the Bare Knuckle CD. However, I also bought the C4 OST on CD.... because it's outstanding and very much an example of the SNES/SFC sound chip not sucking (ESPECIALLY considering how early it was on the hardware).

[Xyga]

I've just realized something about C4...

... it's been 25 years.

[Skykid]

Oh.... and speaking beating the dead horse of Contra 3 vs Hard Corps.

HC has is quite a popular choice on here believe it or not. I mean, if we are gonna go with who's the most popular girl in school route.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... lit=contra

You're not going to believe this, but in the 10 years since I bought Hard Corps I ended up changing my mind.

2.3-ing Contra 3 was the eye opener.

I'm not the only one saying that. As stated in my post, Bloodlines got the nod over CV4 in the action thread.

Who cares? I wasn't giving either the nod over the other anyway, that wasn't my point. But you know that since I keep reiterating it in every post I make.

[FinalBaton]

(Tip: anyone can stand on both sides and let his heart speak for each game individually, without prejudice. But that's asking for too much flexibility today maybe, since apparently there are 'rules')

Anyway the Contra and Castlevania comments here perfectly illustrate my previous point about the SNES vs MD talk in the annoying thread.

well we've been declaring "best/better" games/consoles since the first post of this thread and the debate in the annoyance thread, so I'm just rolling along here. I'm not doing anything different

And there's no reason to change the debate formula now.That's why I feel it's important to award Bloodlines>C4.

[BrianC]

I've just realized something about C4...

... it's been 25 years.

and that it's very explosive!

[Obscura]

SNES, mainly because I'm more familiar with what its library actually has to offer. I never had a Genesis, and most of what I know that was on it was lesser titles in franchises that had superior entries on the SNES or direct arcade ports (or games that just suck on their own, like the Sonic series or the Treasure games for the system that weren't Dynamite Headdy).

As far as I know, it didn't have a single decent Zelda-like/action RPG? I tried Beyond Oasis, and found its slow pace nearly intolerable.

[Strider77]

You're not going to believe this, but in the 10 years since I bought Hard Corps I ended up changing my mind.

There were alot of others who chimed in on that though Skykid... not just you. I did say IF we were going to go the popular girl in school route. To be honest I remembered that thread and the bulk was voting for HC, but I didn't recall you had made it. Even still I skipped over your first comment just now because I assumed it was C3. I didn't even see you preferred C3 in that thread till just now.

That thread was around when my opinion started to sway on C3 myself. I just went the other way.

Don't roll your eyes.... that was totally worth the link and in the least offers some entertainment in the virtual tomato throwing going on. It's not like I said C4's music is an example of the SFC/SNES audio chip sounding shitty, now THAT is eye roll worthy.

[FinalBaton]

Don't roll your eyes.... that was totally worth the link and in the least offers some entertainment in the virtual tomato throwing going on.

Agreed. It was totally a valid point

[Skykid]

There were alot of others who chimed in on that though Skykid... not just use. I did say IF we were going to go the popular girl in school route.

I'm not sure I understand what that means exactly. Is HC generally considered the popular choice? Or do you mean in reverse since C3 was the bigger release at the time?

It's not like I said C4's music is an example of the SFC/SNES audio chip sounding shitty, now THAT is eye roll worthy.

Well yes, that I agree with totally.

Don't roll your eyes.... that was totally worth the link and in the least offers some entertainment in the virtual tomato throwing going on.

Agreed. It was totally a valid point

These contributions aren't really contributions as much as they are cherry picked opportunities to bolster your opinion, and are therefore becoming annoying. If you want to discuss the works in question, why not just do that?

[Skykid]

I tried Beyond Oasis, and found its slow pace nearly intolerable.

It's one of the most overrated games I've ever played. That's not to say it's bad - it's a playable, if sparse action RPG. But that ear garbage that Koshiro came up with... what in the fuck.

[Strider77]

I'm not sure I understand what that means exactly. Is HC generally considered the popular choice? Or do you mean in reverse since C3 was the bigger release at the time?

I was under the impression that HC was the popular choice on here because of that thread.

Having said that I was surprised to find you and BIL giving HC the vote in there... was also surprised by me not giving the vote to HC and staying neutral. Then the BIGGEST surprise was how long ago that thread was.

(Side note) you should visit TF4 in the near future. It's a great vacation spot.

and are therefore becoming annoying.

That's kind of part of a good 16 bit wars thread though.... then take into account this all spun off from the "little things that annoy you" thread. Getting kinda rowdy is part of the fun. All of this is a bit tongue in cheek for me also. I mean there is truth to what I'm saying; as in these ARE my opinions. But part of the fun is the delivery of said opinions in these ancient debates, it's the one of the ways to keep them amusing despite their age.

My motivation for looking up the tread WAS because I thought I recalled HC being preferred by most...

[orange808]

SNES, mainly because I'm more familiar with what its library actually has to offer. I never had a Genesis, and most of what I know that was on it was lesser titles in franchises that had superior entries on the SNES or direct arcade ports (or games that just suck on their own, like the Sonic series or the Treasure games for the system that weren't Dynamite Headdy).

As far as I know, it didn't have a single decent Zelda-like/action RPG? I tried Beyond Oasis, and found its slow pace nearly intolerable.

Maybe, but Landstalker was awesome. The Shining Force games also managed to bring a real strategy RPG to a console--without boring the hell out of me (or confusing me)with convoluted controls and GUI.

Get a Genesis/Mega Drive. You won't regret it. Unless, you mourn all the hours it will steal from you.

Also, PCEngine/TG16 isn't getting enough love. Is there ever a bad time to play Blazing Lasers and Gate of Thunder? No. It's always Gate of Thunder time.

[Sumez]

Thunder Force

I don't have extensive experience with 4, but I cleared 3 way back and it's a really good console hori. Too easy perhaps, but I certainly wouldn't label it a chore - if anything the the choose your stage route makes it the opposite, especially if you like challenge by tackling a tougher stage underpowered.

For the record, 4 is the only one I have ever played. I feel like the game keeps asking me to know each stage inside out, and without giving me a whole lot of "landmarks" to work with, too (unlike, say, R-Type). I really don't like that aspect much in a shooter.

You don't have to defend Castlevania 4. I like the game well enough, it's just coming straight off CV1 and 3 on the NES, I felt it was a bit of a letdown, even when replaying all three quite recently. It has a completely different feel to it, and just doesn't come off as smooth to me. I also feel the graphics are very off-putting to me, but that's completely subjective.

I like Bloodlines more, but it still has its flaws in my book. Of course, we are still talking by Castlevania standards here, a series I'm a huge fan of. I love pretty much all the games at the end of the day.

[FinalBaton]

Maybe, but Landstalker was awesome. The Shining Force games also managed to bring a real strategy RPG to a console--without boring the hell out of me (or confusing me)with convoluted controls and GUI.

Get a Genesis/Mega Drive. You won't regret it. Unless, you mourn all the hours it will steal from you.

Also, PCEngine/TG16 isn't getting enough love. Is there ever a bad time to play Blazing Lasers and Gate of Thunder? No. It's always Gate of Thunder time.

Well said.

Man I really need to pick up a PC Engine sooner than later. Tons of great games it seems like, even on HuCards

[Sumez]

As far as I know, it didn't have a single decent Zelda-like/action RPG? I tried Beyond Oasis, and found its slow pace nearly intolerable.

Soleil aka Crusader of Centy aka Ragnacënty depending on your region is a pretty good Zelda-like for the MegaDrive. I'd definitely recommend it.

Beyond Oasis / Story of Thor is a charming game that means well, but it's... really not good. Way too many quirks and awkward problems with it. Even the soundtrack (I'm hoping I'm allowed to go there....) is probably Yuzo's Koshiro's worst in my book - It's baffling to me that it came after both SOR and Super Shinobi, which both sound amazing.

[Skykid]

I already went there a few posts up. Story of Thor's OST is garbage, really. No need to beat around the bush.

[WelshMegalodon]

Does Sorcerian MD count as decent? How about Wanderers of Ys? Though I honestly spend more time listening to their soundtracks than I do actually playing them.

Shining in the Darkness also deserves mention as a solid turn-based dungeon crawler.

[Sumez]

I like all the Ys games, but I'd play the first 3 on PC Engine.

[Strider77]

The PCE does need some more engagement in here.... I recently picked up PC Denjin (Air Zonk) for the first time about a month ago. I was very surprised by it, it's quite excellent and alot of fun. I've been missing out all this time. I as suspicious of it being over hyped by the PCE community but.... it exceeded me expectations and have had a blast playing it.

Out of the 16 bitter Castlevania's.... yeah Dracula X is my favorite. It might actually be my favorite of the series period.

Spriggan I recently popped in after not playing it in quite some time. Another EXCELLENT shooter, amazingly good title that's running on the regular system card to boot. Top tier shooter to me, I prefer it over Sapphire.

I recently stuck my nose back into Winds/Lords of Thunder, another excellent offering. I actually prefer this one over Gate of Thunder. It's fantasy theme along with the shop and weapons/item upgrades just makes a little bit more off the beaten path for me, in an interesting way. Gate of Thunder is good but very by the numbers..... plus I played the fuck out of it back in the day. I've always seen Gate of Thunder as kinda a Thunder Force knock off (a very good one) with some great redbook audio. I like both games for the record and like I said I may still be suffering from way to much GoT from my teens.

Ninja Spirit... not much to say. We all know it, for a reason. If you don't.... you need to get on that. Top tier Hucard for sure.

Forgotten Worlds I have a nostalgia sweet spot for. I got my first MD (Genesis actually) the year it came out for Christmas, it of course came packed with Altered Beast. Forgotten Worlds popped up in the stores really close to December and I asked for that also.

So I had Altered Beast and FW with my first 16 bitter all at the same time. I played the fuck out of it with friends and really dug the audio at the time.

Fast forward to now, I really dig the PC Engine port quite a bit. The arranged audio is excellent and this game's OST has a nostalgia spot with me to start with like I mentioned before. But the port is quite good as well, I actually prefer playing it to the arcade version to be honest version.

Gradius 2.... another fantastic arcade port. One that I prefer over the arcade version also.

I also MUCH prefer the PCE Ys series to any of Squares offering on the SFC/SNES. I'll probably get a ton of gasps from that one or claims that I shouldn't or can't compare the two.... well I just did, you'll live.

Devil Crash is also a great pinball game, and they generally aren't a big thing for me. But this one I enjoy alot. I actually own the MD port and not the PCE version. I kinda want both now. I'd be curious to hear some scathing debate between over the PCE and MD port for this one.... non scathing debate would also do I suppose.

How about Wanderers of Ys?

If you are a fan of that game then the MD version is very much worth a play through. I prefer the PCE version despite it's choppy scrolling in some of the background layers... because it's soundtrack is EPIC AF (one of my favorite game OSTs of all time). But a strong case could be made that the MD version is the better game to some. The MD's audio is great in it's own right as well. I need to pick this up myself before collectarded infects its price.

[Ex_Mosquito]

Why are people getting so offended what Castlevania/Contra is best? If you enjoy a certain installment over another what does it matter what someone else thinks? The PCE has gotten no love but that doesn't affect my feelings towards anyone. Just like what you like and get on with it.

[FinalBaton]

Yeah Beyond Oasis looks pretty... weird. I'm not compelled to try that one at all. May give it a go nonetheless but my expectations are pretty low.

On the other hand, Landstalker is excellent.
Still haven't tried Crusader Of Centy, that one looks pretty fun

[Strider77]

If you enjoy a certain installment over another what does it matter what someone else thinks?

Because that makes for a really boring thread... and this is a "versus" thread anyway.

Then again I'm not offended by it either, not yet anyway. If it gets to the point, total props to the thread.

Still haven't tried Crusader Of Centy, that one looks pretty fun

I actually really enjoyed that game. Alot of folks don't.... it's not the most amazing or the best thing ever, but I enjoyed my time with it. It's unique in a appealing way to me. Your mileage may vary.

Fuck... nevermind..... I was thinking of Light Crusader.

[FinalBaton]

Why are people getting so offended what Castlevania/Contra is best? If you enjoy a certain installment over another what does it matter what someone else thinks? The PCE has gotten no love but that doesn't affect my feelings towards anyone. Just like what you like and get on with it.

Because we're in 'console wars' mode just like when we were kids arguing in the school yard, and that's really fun

The thread title is clearly evoking that, so that's the angle we'll be going with for the whole thread
Personally, whenever I get a chance to try and convince people to give more respect to the Megadrive, I take it. This is the perfect thred to do so.

[Skykid]

and are therefore becoming annoying.

That's kind of part of a good 16 bit wars thread though....

Dunno, I'm down for the dumbness of attempting utterly pointless one-upmanship, but it's not fun if there's no actual discourse.

I make point, person engages, I clarify the point twice, then person drops any response in favour of cheering from the sidelines. That's not fun.

RE: Ys

I gotta jump in and actually say that if you haven't played the first two, I wouldn't start on the PCE. I'd say play the PSP versions all the way. The graphical overhaul is tasteful and pretty, but more importantly the mechanical overhaul is crucial, relieving tedious aspects of the originals. And I'd say play Oath in Felghana on PSP too (all via PS Vita if possible for the OLED and screen real estate).

[FinalBaton]

I make point, person engages, I clarify the point twice

doesn't mean that the other person can't discuss. Just means that, like the other person, you firmly believe in your opinion and aren't willing to compromise.

[Strider77]

And I'd say play Oath in Felghana on PSP too

Oath is one of the best remakes I've ever played.

[FinalBaton]

And I'd say play Oath in Felghana on PSP too

Oath is one of the best remakes I've ever played.

It's awesome on PSP indeed. Like Skykid I also love I&II on PSP (I haven't played the PCE-CD version though)

[Mortificator]

The overhauled Ancient Ys Vanished is great, as is The Oath in Felghana, though I played them on PC instead of PSP.

Seguing back into the console wars, I think the Genesis port of Wanderers from Ys came out best overall. Of course, it's hard to recommend the sidescrolling version of III over Oath.

Mask of the Sun is the worst Ys game I've played (and I've played all of them except VIII and Taito's PS2 takes on IV and VI). I don't know how Tonkinhouse's port of III made the people at Falcom think this dev was competent. While The Dawn of Ys doesn't reach this series' top tier in my estimation, it's enormously better. Better than Memories of Celceta too, though that should go without saying.