Console WARS: SFC vs MD vs TOWNS vs PCE vs ETC

[Skykid]

In the woeful absence of mod attention, let's get it on here.

SFC gets my vote as ultimate 16-but wonderhorse by a small but important margin against the beautiful MD. Choose your weapon.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'd say SNES has more quality titles overall, and it's magnum opus's are amongst my favorite titles ever (Contra 3, The Ninja Warriors Again, Biometal). So it's the winner for me, pure and simple.

The only thing that makes me pause is the presence of the near perfect Daimakaimura port on the Mega Drive, which I consider on par with the aforementioned masterpieces. I hesitate to give that crown to Mega Drive though, given its nature as a port rather than an exclusive.

It's still very close though.

[SuperDeadite]

I assume you meant this is to be a console fight, but since the Towns is in there.

I vote for X68000.
If we are sticking to true consoles, then PCE it is.

[BryanM]

SFC had exclusive, refined games custom-built by sandwich artists meant for home consumption. All the SEGABOX had was, was ports of games that had better versions in the arcade. SEGA's fate to devolve into the pitiful beast capable of squeezing out Sonic 2006 was carved in stone from the start

[Ex_Mosquito]

Hmm, if I had to own only one console I don't think it would be the SFC. My favourite type of game are short punishing arcade style games and I don't feel the SFC has enough of these. Sure, it's great for mammoth RPGs and padded out action games but that doesn't do much for me personally. My pick would be between the MD and the PCE+CD-ROM unit, but I'd have to go with the Engine. The PCE has so many short arcade style games it ticks all the boxes of why I love videogames. The MD is a close 2nd but I feel the PCE+CD-ROM unit wins for me. Also, the CD music and improved colour pallet tips it over the edge for me.

[Mero]

Regardless of how they're perceived now, I'm going to pick the MD since it was the one I owned back in the day.

[Squire Grooktook]

Hmm, if I had to own only one console I don't think it would be the SFC. My favourite type of game are short punishing arcade style games and I don't feel the SFC has enough of these. Sure, it's great for mammoth RPGs and padded out action games but that doesn't do much for me personally.

I feel the exact opposite. For arcade-style games, the snes absolutely brings it with some of the greatest console exclusives of all time.

Contra 3
The Ninja Warriors Again
Super Ghouls and Ghosts
Pocky and Rocky / Kikai Kakai
Wild Guns
The Firemen
Actraiser 2
Biometal
Super Aleste (Lunatic)
Macross Scrambled Valkyrie
Hagane
Mega Man X 1-3
Majuuoh

off the top of my head, but there's a veritable labyrinth of titles I haven't even explored yet myself, yet are regarded quite highly around here.

[qmish]

love them all!

[iconoclast]

I'd probably take the SNES overall, but I like the best MD and PCE games more than anything I've played on the SNES.

[neorichieb1971]

At the moment I think the MD is the better half of the 16 bit war. I haven't really played much of my SNES library due to waiting until such a time I can do it without changing my living room into a retro gaming centre.

I struggle to find SNES games i'm interested in, not so much on the MD.

[TransatlanticFoe]

The SNES is definitely prettier thanks to the hardware and really brings it with home console designed games. The Mega Drive is more rooted in the older "arcade in your home" experience and its colour restrictions show it up next to the SNES on later "home gaming" styled multiformat titles. I don't think there's a winner - there isn't really something one has that the other lacks, and both have strength in depth across the main genres.

Mode 7 I never got the appeal of - it's so flat! Also the butchering of Final Fight, jesus who signed off on that?

[soprano1]

My childhood was spent with Sega's consoles, but my older formative years (read: emulation) was with the amazing library on the SNES/SFC. Both it and the Mega Drive have amazing libraries to pick amazing games from.

[Tarma]

The Mega Drive for me. I was never a great RPG addict, and as much as I've come to respect the SFC in the intervening years, the MD has more strength in depth in the genres I do like.

Overall, it's pretty close though. I wouldn't rate any of the MD, SFC or PCE heavily infront of each other... seems almost unfair nowadays to try and rank them.

[BryanM]

Mode 7 I never got the appeal of - it's so flat!

Yeah, it isn't great, but it was the best we had at the time..

Racers at the time were usually belt racers. Where you weren't really in a space, you were just on a conveyer belt being pushed left or right. There was no physics where you could reduce the distance you travel on the track by cutting corners, no way to backtrack or explore the space. The alternative top-down view, which can do those things, really doesn't feel like being in a cockpit.

It was occasionally used for sprite scaling, rotation, and stretching on bosses, such as what you can see in Super Mario World.

Final Fantasy 6 probably was its ideal use - a cinematic way of presenting the world map in RPGs while you're in a vehicle. Think how awesome this would've been in the Phantasy Star series while you're cruising around in whatever tank/drill/deathmachine you're riding in at the time.

Also the butchering of Final Fight, jesus who signed off on that?

Yeah.. arcade ports back then were always noticeably worse than the real deal. That was back when it was an actual upgrade to go to an arcade - you'd get these amazing arcade-only exclusive features, such as sprite scaling.

At least it wasn't an abomination like Fry's Pac-Man...

I feel the exact opposite. For arcade-style games, the snes absolutely brings it with some of the greatest console exclusives of all time.

Contra 3
The Ninja Warriors Again
Super Ghouls and Ghosts
Pocky and Rocky / Kikai Kakai
Wild Guns
The Firemen
Actraiser 2
Biometal
Super Aleste (Lunatic)
Macross Scrambled Valkyrie
Hagane
Mega Man X 1-3
Majuuoh

See? Exclusive custom built arcade games. Nintenbest.

[WelshMegalodon]

Final Fantasy 6 probably was its ideal use - a cinematic way of presenting the world map in RPGs while you're in a vehicle.

Those flat caves and towns looked pretty goofy, though. I always preferred the traditional view.

Oh, and my pick is the Mega Drive for being less wannabe hipster bait.

[Skykid]

Not necessary to diss Mode 7, they made some great games around it.

[orange808]

Final Fantasy 6 probably was its ideal use - a cinematic way of presenting the world map in RPGs while you're in a vehicle.

Those flat caves and towns looked pretty goofy, though. I always preferred the traditional view.

Oh, and my pick is the Mega Drive for being less wannabe hipster bait.

Actually, picking the analog sound and "gritty" look is the very definition of hipster.

Hipster indie gamers just love chiptunes and fucking pixel art.

So, can the fucking hipster ad hominen bullshit.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Mode 7 I never got the appeal of - it's so flat!

Yeah, it isn't great, but it was the best we had at the time..

Racers at the time were usually belt racers. Where you weren't really in a space, you were just on a conveyer belt being pushed left or right. There was no physics where you could reduce the distance you travel on the track by cutting corners, no way to backtrack or explore the space. The alternative top-down view, which can do those things, really doesn't feel like being in a cockpit.

It was occasionally used for sprite scaling, rotation, and stretching on bosses, such as what you can see in Super Mario World.

Final Fantasy 6 probably was its ideal use - a cinematic way of presenting the world map in RPGs while you're in a vehicle. Think how awesome this would've been in the Phantasy Star series while you're cruising around in whatever tank/drill/deathmachine you're riding in at the time.

Trouble is, any feeling of actual cornering realism in Mode 7 racing games was often negated by unrealistic flat everything else. At least scrolling belt into infinity racing games let you have hills, although it's debatable whether flat barriers are better than rows of evenly spaced trees/billboards etc. The simulation setting in Nigel Mansell (the F1 one) gives you a bit of turning rather than sliding left/right for a bit more realistic a feeling to cornering (you couldn't spin around but you could get close to 90 degrees if I remember right), something I didn't see in any other racing games of the type. Probably because it still kind of sucked.

I did like the scaling effect they used with it in Super Aleste - top down it of course doesn't look as silly. But the excited noises were usually around very flat racing games and RPG maps. What else used it for cool scaling? Vaguely remember some boss bits in Super Turrican 2 and an entirely pointless orbital drop sequence in Mechwarrior (with the rest of that game being massive derpy sprites stomping over flat islands).

[WelshMegalodon]

Actually, picking the analog sound and "gritty" look is the very definition of hipster.

Hipster indie gamers just love chiptunes and fucking pixel art.

So, can the fucking hipster ad hominen bullshit.

I wasn't thinking of anyone here when I said that, only of how much more branded the SFC's Nintendo and Squaresoft titles tend to be. And I'm quite certain it's Nintendo that's known for their chiptune music, not Sega.

Spoiler

[Sumez]

Having grown up with Nintendo consoles myself, I can't say I'm not biased towards them.
That said, I feel that completely subjectively, everything about the MegaDrive appeals to me more than the SNES. I actually like the way the graphics hardware works, giving a looks similar to late-80s arcade games or even 8-bit consoles, which I always felt was much cleaner and appealing to me. That said you can of course still make some damn raw and cool graphics on the SNES (Hagane, GunHazard, first stage of Majyuuou, etc), but the hardware kinda encourages huge sprites and a plethora of colors, which can look excellent, but it makes it feel less like a successor of the NES, and more like a predecessor to the PS1. I also like the clean synthy FM sound over the SNES's muddled instruments. Though as much as I love several classic MegaDrive soundtracks, I can't ignore the existance of Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI.

Even more though I absolutely love the PC Engine, and personally it's my favourite pick, even if I can easily tell both the MegaDrive and SNES have many more quality titles when you have to tally them all up. But it actually had some cool CD games that weren't just FMV trainwrecks.

But completely objectively, I don't see how anyone could say anything other than the SNES is the "winner". Its library of games is just absolutely absurd. It has so many huge classics, including a few mammoths of masterpieces, several games that just changed the entire scenery of what video games are, but on top of that it ALSO has the classic hardcore arcade style games (see Squire's post), as well as all those quirky obscure curiosities or hidden gems, and it's a rabbit hole that just goes really fucking deep, and that's not even counting all the stuff we're missing out on by not understanding Japanese.
The mere fact that the SNES has Super Metroid, FF6, Contra 3, Zelda 3, Mega Man X (times 3), and Yoshi's Fucking Island makes it really difficult to ignore how huge it is.

[BryanM]

How are we on horror games back then? The only thing that comes to mind is Clock Tower and Ecco the Dolphin.

The mere fact that the SNES has Super Metroid, FF6, Contra 3, Zelda 3, Mega Man X (times 3), and Yoshi's Fucking Island makes it really difficult to ignore how huge it is.

But does it have VECTORMAN?

Checkmate, atheists

What else used it for cool scaling?

Axelay had a cool robot guy who moved around kind of like a paper puppet.

[FinalBaton]

Grew up with the NES and SNES, and loved every second of it. The original Final Fantasy, as well as FFIV and FFVI gave me the gaming bug and turned me into a gamer fo lyfe. Wouldn't want to change that experience for anything in the world, I cherish it very much.

In the last few years though my taste leaned toward the Megadrive. I love the sound (I'm an FM synth guy, I vastly prefer that over samples), I love the hardware, and the clean look of the games. Nowadays I mostly play sidescrolling action games(read : hack 'n slash/adventure) such as

Strider
Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Contra : Hard Corps
Revenge of Shinobi
Shadow Dancer
Shinobi 3
Castlevania : Bloodlines
Rocket Knight Adventures
Splatterhouse 2
Chiki Chiki Boys
Gunstar Heroes
Ranger-Ex
Wonderboy In Monsterworld
Monsterworld 4
Cadash


And a couple shooters like

Thunder Force 3
Thunder Force 4
Elemental Master
Batle Mania
Battle Mania 2
Truxton
MUSHA
Granada
Heavey Unit
Arrow Flash
Twinkle Star Sprites
Gaiares
Gleylancer
Forgotten Worlds


I barely play RPGs anymore, including my beloved Squaresoft games, so maybe that's why I spend less time with the SNES then I used to. I've just lost a ton of interest for those sadly. But I do find time to play the Shining Force games frequently, these just blow my mind with how snappy and fun they are. Not too convoluted, just right. Truly masterful. And felt compelled to replay through Phantasy Star IV last month since it's also very snappy, and it was a fucking incredible experience, as usual.
On the SNES front I love Super Metroid to death and frequently play that. And Link to the Past once a year. I also go through Super Mario World like twice a year. I also love the SNES beat 'em ups, but the MD has many great ones as well.

So : love the SNES, but nowadays I enjoy the Megadrive even more.

[Skykid]

I do find the comments regarding "I'm not so into RPGs so I'm not too hot on the SNES" totally baffling; as if RPGs is all it's got. I'M not so into RPGs, but I still know if I were in the desert island scenario the SNES library would be the one I'd be taking.

[FinalBaton]

I do find the comments regarding "I'm not so into RPGs so I'm not too hot on the SNES" totally baffling; as if RPGs is all it's got. I'M not so into RPGs, but I still know if I were in the desert island scenario the SNES library would be the one I'd be taking.

Well a bunch of SNES marquee games are RPGs, aren't they?

And I'm only speaking for myself : saying that the SNES games I personally like most are the RPGs, and that right now I somewhat have less interest in the genre

[WelshMegalodon]

How are we on horror games back then? The only thing that comes to mind is Clock Tower and Ecco the Dolphin.

Depends. Are we talking Splatterhouse horror or Alone in the Dark horror?

Speaking of RPGs, the Mega Drive also had competent ports of Starflight and Might and Magic II. (EDIT: Oh, and apparently Pirates! Gold too.) In addition, both it and the Super Famicom received video game interpretations of Shadowrun.

EDIT: Changed Star Control to Starflight.

[Austin]

If we're talking just the base consoles, then the SFC edges out the rest by just a bit for me. If add-ons are a part of the picture, the Genesis/Sega CD combo takes it.

[BryanM]

Depends. Are we talking Splatterhouse horror or Alone in the Dark horror?

More the later. Since we wouldn't call a movie where the protagonist solves all their problems by turning themselves into a monster right in the beginning and then murdering everything nonstop a horror movie.

[Squire Grooktook]

Grew up with the NES and SNES, and loved every second of it. The original Final Fantasy, as well as FFIV and FFVI gave me the gaming bug and turned me into a gamer fo lyfe. Wouldn't want to change that experience for anything in the world, I cherish it very much.

In the last few years though my taste leaned toward the Megadrive. I love the sound (I'm an FM synth guy, I vastly prefer that over samples), I love the hardware, and the clean look of the games. Nowadays I mostly play sidescrolling action games(read : hack 'n slash/adventure) such as

Strider
Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Contra : Hard Corps
Revenge of Shinobi
Shadow Dancer
Shinobi 3
Castlevania : Bloodlines
Rocket Knight Adventures
Splatterhouse 2
Chiki Chiki Boys
Gunstar Heroes
Ranger-Ex
Wonderboy In Monsterworld
Monsterworld 4
Cadash


And a couple shooters like

Thunder Force 3
Thunder Force 4
Elemental Master
Batle Mania
Battle Mania 2
Truxton
MUSHA
Granada
Heavey Unit
Arrow Flash
Twinkle Star Sprites
Gaiares
Gleylancer
Forgotten Worlds

This is a solid list and similar to what I would have made, but a few comments:

1: A good chunk of these disappear if we are talking about exclusives, which is how I prefer to judge consoles (and also why I still refuse to acknowledge the ps4 as a half decent console, yet). There are actually a few very interesting snes ports like Ghost Chaser Densei (which as Skykid has pointed out, is arguably superior to the arcade version) that I didn't include.

2: Twinkle Star Sprites is not on genesis, it's on saturn afaik. Maybe you meant Twinkle Tale?

3: While the list of sidescrollers seems about the same size at first glance, keep in mind my list was only accounting for games I consider stellar. If I wanted to include more "good but not great" titles (as we see with the inclusion of IMO relatively weak titles MD like Arrow Flash, etc.) I could probably triple the snes action-adventure roster if I wanted to without even stooping to the inclusion of anything outright mediocre or average. Notice that titles like Super Metroid aren't even on my list (!!) and I only included two stg's which I consider 10/10 material, when there are a scad of others that I don't mention (Axelay, R-Type 3, Pop'n'Twinbee, Pocky and Rocky 2, Darius Force, Gradius III, etc.) which are 9/10 material

4: I may be in the minority, but discounting arcade ports that are better on their home format, I find most of md stg library terribly underwhelming (seriously Thunderforce might sound and look good but it's a chore to play imo). Elemental Master is the only one I return to on a regular basis. Twinkle Tale is good too, and there are a host of "solid" titles, but the best snes stg's blow the console out of the water on that front by virtue of quality over quantity.

5: No Alien Soldier on that list *stern stare*

6: Even if we were to move every single game available on the snes over to being md exclusives, except Contra 3 and Ninja Warrios Again, snes would still win purely by virtue of possessing those two games. You can't fight god.


All in all I really do think it's hard to argue that the snes has a smaller roster of hardcore games, and even harder to argue that its masterpieces aren't among the greatest games of all time. I can understand if you're going to go with the argument of "I just like my favorite md titles better than my favorite snes titles" similar to how I'll deny anything else in the sidescrolling format can touch Contra 3, which is fine, but discounting personal taste I don't think MD has a real "hard number" advantage in either quality or quantity. Looking at it as a whole, Snes probably has a bigger library of general "hardcore" games, if an advantage is to be pronounced on either of them.

[BrianC]

Atari 2600 wins!

[WelshMegalodon]

More the later. Since we wouldn't call a movie where the protagonist solves all their problems by turning themselves into a monster right in the beginning and then murdering everything nonstop a horror movie.

Huh, I dunno. You really have to dig around for anything older than the PlayStation when it comes to horror games. Here's one:

https://vndb.org/v745

If nothing else, those digitized portraits are terrifying.

Someone actually went ahead and translated some parts of this. It reminds me of those low-budget Japanese horror films I only watched for the AKB members (on that note, there have been no less than seven horror films starring or otherwise involving members of AKB48).

There's also a translation patch for a horror game called Laplace no Ma, which I'm told is similar to Capcom's Sweet Home.