Little things that annoy the hell out of you

[Strider77]

I didn't bring up the PCE port... Skykid did. The MD port of it is VASTLY better than the SNES version on all fronts was the point.

And the rediculous failed attempt at cock blocking the Mega CD as something that doesn't count is just silly. Not to mention there are three versions of the hardware where the MD and Mega CD are not separate consoles that attach to each other, not that it even matters.

This YouTube star nostalgia fueled notion that the MD is vastly shittier than the SNES and the SNES is clearly the undisputed king is dumb. Especially when they turn around and are able to go gaga over the NES/Famicom. If you can like the NES/Famicom.... you most definitely can like the MD.

Sorry... some of us grew up with all the 16 bitters and our nostalgia is spread evenly.

There is a strong case for the MD especially if you love action titles and shooters. And then even still there are some fantastic other entries for the other game genres also.

I am always up for rekindling the 16 bit wars... they were epic AF. The reason why is exactly because there was no undisputable clear cut champion. Everyone evolved were hitting quite hard if you are looking at it globally... which you should since it was a global affair.

[Skykid]

Ys 3 is not a completely different game. It just really sucks on the SNES. Why the hell would you claim it's a totally different game?

Ys 4 is and it sucks compared to the PCE version.

Sorry, my bad, that's my poor memory. I got confused between those two in the vastness of Ys variations.

And Rushing Beat and Undercover Cops are QUITE approachable... hell Ninja Warriors on the SNES blows either one of those away.

Yes, but I was mentioning those that hadn't already been mentioned. NWA had been.

And the rediculous failed attempt at cock blocking the Mega CD as something that doesn't count is just silly.

Nobody is cock blocking anything, I just noted that Final Fight CD was on the Mega CD, not on the Mega Drive. Fairly simple.

This YouTube star nostalgia fueled notion that the MD is vastly shittier than the SNES and the SNES is clearly the undisputed king is dumb.

Indeed, that's preposterous and offensive if indeed it exists (I don't watch fuckheads talking about games on Youtube because they invariably make me angry). I had both consoles when I was growing up and got about equal enjoyment from both. I think with the SFC there was more to play, and ultimately I played more because of that, from Starfox to Secret of Mana to Contra III and Super Punch Out to Assault Suits Valken, Zelda, Ganbare Goemon, Metroid, F-Zero, Kikikaikai, Mario Kart and Xandra no Daibouken - amongst others.

I really dislike to hear anyone shit talking about the Mega Drive though. For me it was the only real "arcade machine at home" if you discount the Neo Geo, and for that it's a treasure of a console that often managed to up the SFC with games like Gunstar, Bare Knuckle and Rocket Knight.

[Sumez]

I didn't bring up the PCE port... Skykid did. The MD port of it is VASTLY better than the SNES version on all fronts was the point.

And again, that's a moot point when you want the PCE version anyway.

[orange808]

Final Fight is a fucking hopelessly dated POS game. Moving one or two pixels above and below enemies to dodge and using the edge of the screen to spam enemies is mostly mindless button mashing. Fuck that.

Also, was the expense of buying a new Sega CD *really* justified with a port of an ancient arcade game? By the time Mega CD arrived, everybody had played the Final Fight. That was fucking lazy shovelware shit. Mega CD needed great games. We got stuck with lazy ports of old games and shitty FMV.

I don't give a shit about Mega CD Final Fight. It came out too late and nobody bought a Mega CD to play old beat em up arcade games. Nobody wanted an improved version of a SNES launch title.

We're debating a shit game.

[Xyga]

We're debating a shit game.

We so need a new 16-bit war thread. It'll be fun.

But I won't be the one to start it, because I'm only interested in a purely SNES vs. MD libraries by-genre/by-game anal analysis, and looks like it won't be the case bcz people will keep bringing SegaCD and NEC stuff and who knows what else like ports, compilations 'n shit.

:p

[Mischief Maker]

I don't give a shit about Mega CD Final Fight. It came out too late and nobody bought a Mega CD to play old beat em up arcade games.

Especially since the Sega CD already came with Streets of Rage.

[BrianC]

I think of the Sega/Mega CD more as an add-on than a completely separate system. Very few games made full use of it.

[Squire Grooktook]

When I was young, I owned and enjoyed vastly more super nes titles than genesis. The latter console spent more time collecting dust than anything.

Now that I'm older and have access to region locked / import titles like Alien Soldier, in addition to an expansion and reduction of my tastes in several areas, my Genesis favorites collection has grown whilst my super nes collection has shrunk. My rom folders for both consoles are about even.

That being said, I think I would still choose the Super Nes sheerly for the fact that several of my all-time favorite titles (Contra 3, for instance) exist on it.

Similarly, I would also choose it as the superior stg console almost entirely for the existence of Biometal. Super Aleste on Lunatic and Pocky and Rocky are nice too.

[WelshMegalodon]

Mega CD needed great games. We got stuck with lazy ports of old games and shitty FMV.

Can't help but mention that the Mega-CD also had Heart of the Alien, Rise of the Dragon, and Snatcher. The Super Famicom also had at least one notable graphic adventure-esque game in Radical Dreamers, but unlike the aforementioned three titles it was never released outside of Japan.

[charlie chong]

why are all these anal hardware dudes such nintendo fans.. wasting time/money on hdmi n64 mods n shit to play shit 3d games ahahahahahha
especially when you slag off a game like final fight..if you're going to have a go at that than you can use the same reasoning for streets of rage 2 for being able to tap tap the button slowly and never get hit.
nearly all side scroller beat em ups are button mashing if you choose to exploit mechanics which is why superplays of side scrolling beat em ups are boooooring
basically we too old for this console war shit and you should go back to counting scanlinez

[orange808]

I got one!

People that substitute a "z" for an "s".

[Vludi]

Undercover Cops and the Rushing Beat series are definitely underappreciated brawlers for the SNES. I also kinda liked Legend and SunSoft's Pirates of the Dark Water game.
I think a lot of them just aren't getting a lot of attention due to fans of the genre mostly clinging to the MegaDrive.

Undercover Cops sfc is kinda neat considering the limitations, but the 3 enemies limit really hurts it compared to the hectic arcade.

Personally I think the MD is potentially better for beat 'em ups (M68k+FM), but since the SFC was the more popular console in Japan it has a much larger beat 'em up library than the MD, even when in terms of great titles they are about the same (SoR2/3, TNWA, Maybe KoD)

[Skykid]

I got one!

People that substitute a "z" for an "s".

That depends on your country of birth. I could say the same thing for people who substitute an 'S' for a 'Z'.

We're debating a shit game.

Final Fight isn't a "shit game". What are you talking about.

Undercover Cops and the Rushing Beat series are definitely underappreciated brawlers for the SNES. I also kinda liked Legend and SunSoft's Pirates of the Dark Water game.
I think a lot of them just aren't getting a lot of attention due to fans of the genre mostly clinging to the MegaDrive.

Undercover Cops sfc is kinda neat considering the limitations, but the 3 enemies limit really hurts it compared to the hectic arcade.

Are you sure about that? I owned the PCB a long time before getting the SFC game and I was incredibly impressed by its accuracy. It may not be 1:1, but the arcade never had that many on-screen sprites anyway outside of stage 2's mole madness - which I seem to remember being replicated impressively on the SFC.

I'm not saying you're wrong - you're probably right! - I just don't remember there be that obvious a difference when I played them back to back a couple years ago.

[orange808]

I got one!

People that substitute a "z" for an "s".

That depends on your country of birth. I could say the same thing for people who substitute an 'S' for a 'Z'.

I'm not into script kiddie lingo.

We're debating a shit game.

Final Fight isn't a "shit game". What are you talking about.

I explained why I soured on Final Fight's gameplay. I don't know how I could be more direct.

Final Fight was an ancient game by the time Mega/Sega CD arrived. The game was a SNES launch title--forchrissakes. The game was a couple years old when the SNES got it. The last thing I wanted was another port of an old game.

Sega had a nice piece of hardware. We all wanted more software that was built to really take advantage of it. Final Fight had no real reason to be Sega CD; voice acting and music aren't selling points for me. It should have been a cart and it should have shipped in 1991.

-----

And, if we're talking Sega, nobody mentioned the Shining Force games. The SNES never had anything to compare.

[WelshMegalodon]

I'm not into script kiddie lingo.

Skykid thought you were referring to people who use the British spellings of words like 'analyze'.

And, if we're talking Sega, nobody mentioned the Shining Force games. The SNES never had anything to compare.

Fire Emblem, Der Langrisser, Super Robot Taisen, Front Mission, and Bahamut Lagoon beg to differ.

[Skykid]

I'm not into script kiddie lingo.

Skykid thought you were referring to British spellings of words like 'analyze', rather than the American spellings.

I did indeed.

Final Fight was an ancient game by the time Mega/Sega CD arrived. The game was a SNES launch title--forchrissakes. The game was a couple years old when the SNES got it. The last thing I wanted was another port of an old game.

Sega had a nice piece of hardware. We all wanted more software that was built to really take advantage of it. Final Fight had no real reason to be Sega CD; voice acting and music aren't selling points for me. It should have been a cart and it should have shipped in 1991.

Sega had an underwhelming piece of hardware, actually, but that's beside the point. I think you're greatly exaggerating how old Final Fight actually was in relation to 16-bit gaming at that time. You make it sound like a fossil by the time the MCD came out but I actually think it was still highly regarded and considered one of the arcade's most exciting games for a lot of kids.

What I do agree with you on is it not really being necessary on the MCD, but at least it was the most accurate home port, colour palette notwithstanding, when it debuted on the console. That was enough to enthuse a lot of fans underwhelmed by the SFC effort.

But none of this means anything to your assessment of it being a shit game. It's not the fairest of belt scrollers, but it still has a lot of beauty about it; I think it's one of the genre's most important works.

[orange808]

I'm not into script kiddie lingo.

Skykid thought you were referring to people who use the British spellings of words like 'analyze'.

Romz Warez Scanlinez

And, if we're talking Sega, nobody mentioned the Shining Force games. The SNES never had anything to compare.

Fire Emblem, Der Langrisser, Super Robot Taisen, Front Mission, and Bahamut Lagoon beg to differ.

Fair enough.

But, my shameless Shining Force fanboy side says: Shining Force is still my favorite by a mile. Great games get the little things right.

[orange808]

I'm not into script kiddie lingo.

Skykid thought you were referring to British spellings of words like 'analyze', rather than the American spellings.

I did indeed.

Final Fight was an ancient game by the time Mega/Sega CD arrived. The game was a SNES launch title--forchrissakes. The game was a couple years old when the SNES got it. The last thing I wanted was another port of an old game.

Sega had a nice piece of hardware. We all wanted more software that was built to really take advantage of it. Final Fight had no real reason to be Sega CD; voice acting and music aren't selling points for me. It should have been a cart and it should have shipped in 1991.

Sega had an underwhelming piece of hardware, actually, but that's beside the point. I think you're greatly exaggerating how old Final Fight actually was in relation to 16-bit gaming at that time. You make it sound like a fossil by the time the MCD came out but I actually think it was still highly regarded and considered one of the arcade's most exciting games for a lot of kids.

What I do agree with you on is it not really being necessary on the MCD, but at least it was the most accurate home port, colour palette notwithstanding, when it debuted on the console. That was enough to enthuse a lot of fans underwhelmed by the SFC effort.

But none of this means anything to your assessment of it being a shit game. It's not the fairest of belt scrollers, but it still has a lot of beauty about it; I think it's one of the genre's most important works.

If you like the genre, it's fine. I already pointed out why I soured on those games. It's not my bag anymore.

I think you're ignoring just how tired and worn out something popular can be about five years after it arrives. Five years is right where it feels old, but it isn't a classic. That's right about when Capcom launched Final Fight on Mega CD. To make matters worse, the game didn't have any real reason to be a cd. It felt like an insult to me. They could have given me something new and great, but they rushed out a game I was tired of playing.

The Mega CD was an add on to an aging console. I think you're being hard on it. It gave the specs a bump, but it didn't attract enough developers.

I certainly don't look at mine and curse it for being crap hardware. In reality, Sega made a mistake launching the cd and 32x. Then, they followed up with (my personal choice for) the worst console launch in history. Saturn never had a chance, either.

But, these are the woes of Sega fans everywhere.

[Vludi]

It may not be 1:1, but the arcade never had that many on-screen sprites anyway outside of stage 2's mole madness - which I seem to remember being replicated impressively on the SFC.

How about this, or this, or this. Most of the time the game has at least 4-5 enemies on screen and occasionally many more like in those parts. It makes quite a difference I'd say compared to max 3 enemies + slowdowns, like pretty much any Capcom arcade port on the system except for KoD (which still has quite a bit of slowdowns).

[Xyga]

Too big, too colorful sprites, can't put too much on screen. But at the time looking good mattered the most.

[Mischief Maker]

Dangerously stupid people with a platform:

Spoiler

[Strider77]

Final Fight is a fucking hopelessly dated POS game.

If you can like Gumshoe on NES... we can like Final Fight (QUITE easily).

[orange808]

Final Fight is a fucking hopelessly dated POS game.

If you can like Gumshoe on NES... we can like Final Fight (QUITE easily).

Be my guest.

[FinalBaton]

I'll reiterate my position : there is no winner of the 16-bit gen. 'Twas a tie.
I'm surprised there aren't more people on here who share my view on this!

Yes SNES sold for more years, but that's in part because the Megadrive wasn't developped for anymore by then, Sega had instead shifted their focus on the Mega-Cd and 32X. Of course the Megadrive ended it's cycle earlier, it came out a full 2 years before the SNES.. People tend to forget that, I think.

You also have to understand that what the Genesis accomplished in North America is MASSIVE. Just plainly INSANE. For people who aren't familiar with our console gaming history : Nintendo had a titanesque stronghold on console gaming in North America. There were no indications that they would ever not be dominant, let alone have another company get as much market share as them. Yet Sega did just that, and even achieved a peak of 55% market share in 1992. The SNES didn't get the lead until 1994.
This isn't a big sample, but I can tell you that I know as many people who had a Genesis, than people who had a SNES.
As for how it unfolded in other parts of the world : I won't cover that since I don't know a ton about it. I'll let other people chime in.

(By the way I grew up a Nintendo kid up to the the SNES anyway. I now prefer the Genesis, but I think they are both excellent consoles and are equally awesome)

Regarding the hardware : the SNES definitively don't win in the audio depatment. That's because samples and FM Synth are so different, it's like comparing apples and oranges. The Yamaha 2612 produced some incredible musice in the hands of the right programmers.
As for the rest : meh, the SNES has a bit more juice, but it did have less processing speed, plus the games run at lower horizontal resolution.

So that's it : an epic war where two titans slugged it out until they couldn't fight anymore, resting on each other's shoulders. tired.

[Skykid]

No idea why you have gone full circle back to your original points without taking into account any of those other people mentioned.

I prefer the MD soundchip and the general fluidity of its processor, and yes, it was a massive console in the UK and Europe too - that two year head start actually got it a decent foothold and left the SNES playing catchup for years. And great games aplenty: it's a superb console, one of the very best.

But while I appreciate your enthusiasm for the joy of MD, based on the library of games spread across both consoles you can only call them "neck and neck" from a personal perspective. Believe me, I'd like that to be a fact, but it simply isn't.

In the end the support for the SNES surpassed the MD massively. When steam ran out and the 32X and MCD were drafted in, the SNES held strong for years and years.

The console is judged by its library ultimately, and if you actually sit down and dissect the two everyone knows what the MD's gems are off the top of their head. But the SNES has such a ton of really superb, probably lesser known titles, that you could wring several more years of play out the machine. Really, people are talking about Wild Guns and Ninja Warriors Again today like they're household names: when I was a kid they barely surfaced on the radar.

And they're the tip of the iceberg. SNES is a 16-bit wonderland, I encourage you to go on an odyssey and discover the undiscovered.

[Mischief Maker]

I've always heard of the uncanny valley, but never experienced it myself until I saw Harley Quinn in Injustice 2. Yeesh!

[Sumez]

I prefer the MD soundchip and the general fluidity of its processor,

In fact the cpu is by far the most effective cpu of the two. It's clocked lower than the MegaDrive, but uses them better. Overall I believe they are about even in the cpu deparment. The snes did require moving a lot more data arpund though which makes it a bigger bottleneck.

Not that any of this would ever be evident to consumers in anyway. Sega just used numbers for marketing that no one knew what meant.
Even today most people probably still can't tell you what "16-bit" means, it just sounds twice as good as 8-bit.

[Blinge]

All this genesis intrigue made me wonder how Phantasy Star IV was released back in the day.
Looked at Wikipedia and hoo boy.. let's look at some negatives.

Next Generation remarked that Phantasy Star IV, "while still a good game, is years behind."

I suppose 'Next Generation' would be concerned with technical innovation first and foremost.

They elaborated that while other RPGs were making major innovations to the genre in both graphics and gameplay, Phantasy Star IV still fundamentally looked and played the same as Phantasy Star II from five years before. The four reviewers of Electronic Gaming Monthly commented that the graphics are mediocre, the music is irritating, and the story is too slow paced

Lol.

[Sumez]

I don't think it really matters in the "console war" point, but I honestly agree with all of those points. That said, it's awfully specific and subjective for a Wikipedia article. Reminds me of the one I recently linked about Ninja Crusaders, which doesn't even cite a source.

edit: wow, that article was actually changed since I linked it, removing some of the most stupid statements in there. Whoever "Jonny2x4" is, he's a champ.
Though I still think that a disappeared web blog from 2010 hardly counts as coverage of a game's "reception".

[Blinge]

I don't think it really matters in the "console war" point, but I honestly agree with all of those points.

If you think 4 looks and plays the same as 2 I suggest you try playing them one after the other.
And the story being slow paced? C'mon man, compare that to Final Molasses.