Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[soprano1]

Sumez, if you liked the music, there's an interesting podcast by Pixelated Audio with the game's composer here:
https://soundcloud.com/pixelated-audio/mitsume-ga-tooru

I really enjoyed the soundtrack actually! Some tracks had an almost Battletoads-esque vibe to them.

He has quite a nice catalogue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroyuki_Iwatsuki

[dunpeal2064]

I actually had no idea you could even damage the final boss without first destroying its tail! Good intel.

I figured I'd make a video to show my strange methods https://youtu.be/X2ZKEQP-Es0

[BIL]

That looked pretty sharp! Had I not known about destroying the tail, I might've thought that was the orthodox method myself.

In other obscurity, I killed Gimmick's second boss with a ring out / "walk the plank" this afternoon. I had no idea that could even happen. Thought the game had crashed for a sec after, before the map came up as usual! So many little things. Also shoved mr. bird to his doom after getting the stage's treasure ("waaark!"). Senseless birdicide! But don't worry, he'll respawn if you come back.

Hardly controversial, but this is probably my pick for single best FC sidescroller. It's rare to find something so accomplished at both rigorous technical challenge and carefree goofing around, wrapped up in arcade-tight pace. It's not my personal favourite; that's NG1's sublimely malleable slab of high-precision, high-speed, high-impact combat platforming. In terms of sheer quality, though, it's the one I respect the most. This totally ignoring the bubbly, subtly wistful OST, or the sunnily surreal atmosphere it (and a myriad of tiny fine-brush details) contributes to.

Also, Sunsoft must've had some goddamn beast coders re: flicker. It's amazing how much stuff can remain comfortably visible on the same scanline here. Really leapt out in this weekend's sessions, as I'd also finally given Grand Master a proper go (always thought its "coinop topdown ARPG" looked fun - nabbed a cheap NOS copy some years ago). While I was liking many things, holy crap, the sprite dropout is Holy Diver-bad. Get your character and a couple shooting enemies on a horizontal line, and enjoy being slaughtered by invisible projectiles. Still, neat and unusual enough that I don't mind working around.

[Sumez]

Played a couple of new Famicom games today based on recommendations from this thread.

First up: Nuts & Milk. Did Kitten forfeit this thread completely? I got this based on her recommendation, but I must say I have a hard time getting the appeal. I do like the attempt to make a classic simplistic single screen platformer in the vein of Donkey Kong. But awkward controls and stages based almost entirely around following specific routes or patterns kills the fun for me. Way too much abusing the screen wrap to lure the enemies away, and way too little genuine action. I'd say play Donkey Kong instead, but maybe there's just something I'm not getting about this game.

Second: Ninja Crusaders. Holy macaroni, talk about hidden gem!! It feels so great to see proof that persistance can pay off when digging through all of these obscure, underappreciated Famicom titles. This game is right up my alley. It's very easy to pass it off as kusoge due to the crappy graphics and downright insufferable "music", but damn does this game have a tight feeling of what true video game ninja action should be like. I love how it constantly rewards keeping up a fast pace (even if it rarely punishes a slow approach), while also keeping Ninja Gaiden's approach to attempts at retreating.
The weapon system is ingenious - while it's easy to cheese the game with the whip and suffering its slow pace, steamrolling through the enemies with precisely timed hits from the sword or the staff is where it's at.
I feel like the game is a lot easier than it came across as I played it, mostly due to my pride in trying to keep the sword as much as possible, and a self induced pressure of having to constantly move forward, which the game itself very rarely forced on me. I think my first 1CC attempt will probably be with the staff, which is a lot more manageable than the sword while still retaining a high amount of awesome.

Does the second loop increase the difficulty, or is it just the game repeating endlessly?

[soprano1]

Did Kitten forfeit this thread completely?

Seems so. That "goodbye" post was soon followed by the avatar missing, and no further activity. Shame.

[Skykid]

BIL you're such a hateful crusty juggler with your allegiance to fine video gaming you've gone and run the young'un right out of town

[BIL]

Does the second loop increase the difficulty, or is it just the game repeating endlessly?

It definitely gets tougher, though I can't quite recall how (enemy layouts or just number tweaks). Esteemed fellow AndSuchIsDeath is a fan of NC and rated its loop as quality, so I've been happy enough leaving it at a 1-all for now.

Glad you're liking it! On the subject of lesser-known Famicom stuff, I highly recommend browsing Macaw's FC/NES action gaming thread over at gamengai. You'll undoubtedly know about most of the stuff there, but I like revisiting now and then to retry the more offbeat picks. Was trying out Robocop recently, lmao. Coulda been a decent Spartan X-esque with a little tightening up! Oh DECO.

[Sumez]

Wrote a long response with thoughts about that list of games, but accidentally deleted it.

Long story short, Fire Rock was the only game that was really new to me, will have to look into that one. Are Guevara or Ikari 3 worth looking into? I always passed over that genre on the Famicom as I really haven't seen a lot of good examples of it on 8-bit systems.
edit: Oh, and Frankenstein is another one I had been on the lookout for before, but gave up on due to it being extremely expensive (again, mostly due to exclusively American sellers with enormous shipping feeds to Europe). Really hope to find that in a good deal some time in the future.

[BIL]

God dammit. That feeling when you think you're posting a new message, but are actually editing your previous one!

Are Guevara or Ikari 3 worth looking into? I always passed over that genre on the Famicom as I really haven't seen a lot of good examples of it on 8-bit systems.

I love Guevara; kind of the FC topdown run/gun counterpart to Recca, imo. Frenetic and seizure-tastic but deceptively finesse-oriented (unless you're happy enough mowing down all the hostages, bahaha). Unfortunately like Recca it's also rather pricey. Definitely investigate first.

Ikari III is on one hand a solid topdown brawler... on the other a little farcical for my liking. I just can't get into all the madly dancing men. Worth a look at least.

BIL you're such a hateful crusty juggler with your allegiance to fine video gaming you've gone and run the young'un right out of town

I lived long enough to see myself become the elitist prick. :/

You know, at the time I'd considered painstakingly compiling a list of reviews posted here over the years, and drafting a case for the thread not being a candyland rose goggles love-in. But I quickly realised that'd be like busting my skull open with a ball-peen to prove to my little nephew I wasn't actually a robot impostor like on his TV shows. And even before that, I'd need to pressure-washer out all the fossilised bullshit re: ragequitting poor players dredged up from page 1. So a time-out and a mug of Horlicks did seem a more productive suggestion. 3;

[Sumez]

Unfortunately like Recca it's also rather pricey.

Seems to be cheaper when you're searching fo "Gebara". Definitely sold on this one, looks ace.

[Sumez]

The Wikipedia article for Ninja Crusaders is one of the most subjective thing I have ever seen on there:

The enemy's speed and unpredictability is what leads to the game's biggest downfall, level memorization. This can be good in some games, but Ninja Crusaders basically forces it on the player. The game is relatively easy to play until the player reaches Stage 3-2; after that, the game starts to get "ridiculously" difficult.

And the best part:

Reception
The music by Kazunori Hideya is often praised and highly regarded as the most quality part of the game.

I think the soundtrack in this game is quite possibly the worst I've heard in any NES game ever, not counting a few hits from AVGN episodes.

[trap15]

Oh shit it's that NMK game. Don't be hatin' on Hide-kaz's music :V

[Skykid]

You know, at the time I'd considered painstakingly compiling a list of reviews posted here over the years, and drafting a case for the thread not being a candyland rose goggles love-in. But I quickly realised that'd be like busting my skull open with a ball-peen to prove to my little nephew I wasn't actually a robot impostor like on his TV shows. And even before that, I'd need to pressure-washer out all the fossilised bullshit re: ragequitting poor players dredged up from page 1. So a time-out and a mug of Horlicks did seem a more productive suggestion. 3;

I once considered compiling every mini review I'd ever made in the movie thread into some kind of little web page, but then realised I'd be dead before I finished.

[Squire Grooktook]

Kitten was a bit...passionate. I enjoyed the burst of activity and discussion she brought here, but having to read multiparagraph walls of text over why (quite decent, by any standard) games were shit was a bit exhausting, even for me (the "wall of text" guy).

I would personally be quite fine with this being a place of endless optimism. I personally don't believe that most of the games mentioned here, even the weaker ones, are quite worthy of being called "bad". Only outright kusoge deserve to be spoken of with such vitriol, and titles like Castlevania 3 and Mega Man Zero certainly aren't, no matter what your personal opinions of them are.

But even so, I simply prefer talking about games I like rather than wade into pointless arguments as to why they aren't shit. I learned the futility of the latter after uploading 10 Rondo of Blood screenshots to prove a point about its level design just for the opponent to ignore me anyway >_>

[BrianC]

Oh shit it's that NMK game. Don't be hatin' on Hide-kaz's music :V

Compared to Color Dreams and Sachen games, Ninja Crusaders sounds like Akumajou Densetsu.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I thought her posts were really interesting. I definitely didn't agree with some of her negative criticisms, but I felt her arguments were always well-founded, and clearly came from someone with a great love for games. I don't really have an issue with the debate her posts sometimes fostered; it's only when one side doesn't present or accept reasoned arguments that reading through this thread can become tiring. But that's in the past I guess, so whatever. It's a shame to see her go but I understand why she left.

On-topic, I played a lot of Contra: Shattered Soldier the last week and finally ended up S-ranking the game. Fantastic game, and it's definitely more fun when specifically playing for top rank, but I still think it suffers a little from there being too many, like, softball patterns - stuff like the surfing robot's last phase being worthless, the fish boss being invincible and harmless for most of the fight, the biker enemies being ineffectual, and so on. I get the feeling the game was peppered with "dead air" segments like that to keep the S-rank playthrough reachable for more than just the exceptionally dedicated players, but I'd still have to put it below Contra 3, Hard Corps, and Uprising.

I also really wish SS had more bosses like the turret ceiling miniboss in stage 1 or Gyaba in stage 5. I think the idea of a boss with lots of optional destructible parts fits the hit rate system incredibly well, and that those bosses (plus Taka in stage 1, kind of) feel like the only ones to take advantage of it (Gyaba in particular might be one of the high points of the Contra series, honestly). I guess Shattered Soldier feels like a game with wasted potential, more so than either 3 or Hard Corps.

[Sumez]

Oh shit it's that NMK game. Don't be hatin' on Hide-kaz's music :V

Come on...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBcv7JxLpts

To be fair, I don't think the issue is with making compositions as much as knowledge about how to get a decent sound out of the NES soundchip. This soundtrack is close to making my ears bleed, and I will never again play the game with the sound turned on.

[BIL]

On-topic, I played a lot of Contra: Shattered Soldier the last week and finally ended up S-ranking the game. Fantastic game, and it's definitely more fun when specifically playing for top rank, but I still think it suffers a little from there being too many, like, softball patterns - stuff like the surfing robot's last phase being worthless, the fish boss being invincible and harmless for most of the fight, the biker enemies being ineffectual, and so on. I get the feeling the game was peppered with "dead air" segments like that to keep the S-rank playthrough reachable for more than just the exceptionally dedicated players, but I'd still have to put it below Contra 3, Hard Corps, and Uprising.

For better and worse, Shattered Soldier is Hard Corps writ large: a grab bag of phenomenal highs and perplexing lows. Both games are most definitely worthy as-is, but they would rocket up in quality with a minimal amount of editing.

Have you played Neo Contra, btw? It shifts genre to topdown shooting, and similarly misses its full potential (a lack of truly killer intensity pervades) - but it's a pretty safe bet that if you like SS, you'll get some fun out of it. I do anyway! I suggest avoiding the bonus weapon sets and going with the default three, apparently the unlockables break an already mild game. I'm a big fan of the flamethrower/railgun combo, the latter's laser-sighted charge shot is brutally gratifying.

I also really wish SS had more bosses like the turret ceiling miniboss in stage 1 or Gyaba in stage 5. I think the idea of a boss with lots of optional destructible parts fits the hit rate system incredibly well, and that those bosses (plus Taka in stage 1, kind of) feel like the only ones to take advantage of it (Gyaba in particular might be one of the high points of the Contra series, honestly). I guess Shattered Soldier feels like a game with wasted potential, more so than either 3 or Hard Corps.

Totally agreed, re: Shattered Soldier's Gyaba. An all-series highlight, and absolutely the sort of multi-part, evolving boss they should've capitalised on. I always replay Contra III's iteration with it in mind... in both games, I like dealing damage to the core early on for a relatively quick exit once all hell has broken loose, but of course then you've got to be extra-careful about stray fire ending the fight early.

st6's Jellyfish form is another I'd put in the all-series highlight reel. Uniquely intense with its "give 'em enough rope" concept; brisk on-the-fly calculation required to snipe the pods without trapping yourself. I like the very last phase of st3's crawler tank, too - the interplay of bouncing blades and pits can create some some deceptively tricky jumps.

Stage 3 is my overall favourite of the game - starts off with a lengthy free-running firefight, all too rare, before an excellently speedkillable miniboss (punching straight through his raining grenades to smash the core with charge flame feels gutsy as all hell), then the nervy precision dodging of the conveyor boss. And... well, then the rather lame eel, and a Contra III rolly reprise sans the pits that make them interesting there. Still, at least they're both easily sped through (and the former does at least seem to enjoy his grub). That first half from "Maximum Speed" to "Survival of the Fittest" rocks.

[Sumez]

Shattered Soldier is definitely "Hard Corps, but better" in my book. It has its low points gameplay-wise, but I can't help loving the high-octane production values all the way through that keeps a sense of immense action even when you're just repeating rote patterns.
And entirely agreed on the multi-part bosses that get harder when you go for 100% hit rate. I loved those and wanted to see more of them.

[Sumez]

Finished a Ninja Crusaders 1CC, pretty simple undertaking, but I feel that if I want to beat the whole game with only the sword, there's a lot more to look into. I couldn't even beat the plant boss on 5-1 with the staff, and the final room with a close combat weapon looks like it would take a while to sort out.
Spent some time with the second loop, but it seems like the only difference is that every enemy takes twice as many hits. Pretty stupid way to make the game harder, but essentially it makes the staff less useful, and the long range weapons practically useless, so I guess it's intended as a way to force you to use the sword. Seems like it would have been more apt as a "hard difficulty" in that case.

Didn't bother playing long enough to figure out if there's another ending, or even more loops.

[BIL]

Meant to say earlier, love the instagram page Sumez. Makes me want to quit bumming off seller pics and buy a goddamn camera already.



Word!

Out of curiosity, what's the white Sunsoft FC cartridge behind Hebereke in this photo?

[Ghegs]

Out of curiosity, what's the white Sunsoft FC cartridge behind Hebereke in this photo?

That's The Wing of Madoola.

[BIL]

Thanks! And holy cow, I had no idea their custom cart shells went back quite as far as that, or that they were ever used for non-snapcased stuff. I've always associated them with snapcase titles from Batman onward.

FC packaging, always full of surprises.

[Squire Grooktook]

I see Hardcorps vs Shattered Soldier as a case of an unrefined but bombastic game vs a refined but somewhat sterile one.

Shattered Soldier doesn't have anything as bad as the jungle boss, the stage 1 cyclops, the biker safespot, "prey for my experiments", etc. etc. but IMO it doesn't have quite as many rng-driven highpoints as well. There are a few (jellyfish) but every route in Hardcorps has several great things going on in addition to several bad things.

I personally prefer the ups and downs of Hardcorps. There's more of a sense of energy and "fun" to that game overall IMO.

[Sumez]

Thanks BIL. Yeah, curious that Madoola had a branded cartridge, it seems to be from before SunSoft got really serious about their games, I was pretty disappointed when I tried it, but Kitten seemed to hold it in high regard.
Interesting that Raf World doesn't have the brand. I never really thought about it.

[BIL]

I gave Madoola a very brief spin some months back - came away liking the simple, sharp combat and fast semi-linear stages, but found some of the enemy patterns a bit cheap. Was ultimately neither offended nor compelled... planning to revisit for the next time I go FC browsing. Most memorable thing was the nice sunny colours and rustic air - I liked that lakeshore view! Then I got mugged by an infinite swarm of flying blueberries.

Incidentally, Battle Formula's packaging is exactly like Raf World's - cardboard-boxed, in the same plain, matte black cart. Gimmick (at least) was published later with the full snapcase+custom shell treatment... curious! I wonder about their other pre-Batman stuff now, too - the only one I've got is Metafight, carboard+plain cart. I love how unpredictable FC formatting was... the only rule seemed to be stuff had to be reasonably compact.

[BrianC]

I didn't like how the enemies start off being damage sponges in Wing of Madoola. I have a couple early Sunsoft games. They also use the custom sunsoft shell. Fantasy Zone (one of my favorite ports of the game. More accurate than SMS and better music than both SMS and TG-16 versions) and Tokaido Gojusan-tsugi. I also like Ikki (both AC and FC, which is surprisingly faithful) and Route 16 Turbo (though it has a glitch that keeps the game from looping. Thankfully, there is a hack that fixes this).

[Vanguard]

I've been playing a lot of Shovel Knight recently. I thought it was good but not great at first, but I find myself enjoying it more the more time I put into it.

I think it benefits from playing for speed rather than completionism, as games with RPG elements usually do. Sumez is right about NG+ being the "real" game, the first playthrough is far too generous with health and healing. Most of the boss fights in the first playthrough can be won in a straight up damage race with minimal regard for defense, and 90% of the danger comes from instant death spikes and pits. I do like building up my strength and equipment over the course of the game, though. It might be worth doing the first playthrough with no upgrades to try a version of NG+ with the RPG elements intact.

I wish it had an arcade mode with limited lives and a time limit. It'd be a great match for Cadash-style trade-time-for-power-but-don't-overdo-it strategy.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^ Have you tried Specter Knight yet? Using his Mega Man X-style movement mechanics (especially the optional enhancement you can get to "grind" on any surface") and souped up offensive roster makes blazing through stages feel incredibly sexy.

His hard mode / ng+ also turns the game into something akin to PS2 Shinobi: your life is merged with sub weapon meter, and constantly ticks down. Murdering everything as fast as possible while scrambling through stages becomes the only way to survive. Very intense.

[Sumez]

Two recent purchases that fit this thread's theme but which I ended up kinda regretting.

1. Karnov. Now, I'm actually a big fan of Karnov, some people might even remember that he used to be my avatar picture right here on this forum years ago. But the Famicom port is beyond awful, it really surprised me just how badly they got this wrong while at the same time barely managing to stay on the right side of making something playable - to the point where I think I could actually get something good out of this if I sat down and really got to know the game and avoid its quirks.
But considering how poorly programmed you see a lot of old games being, it's surprisingly rare that you find obvious glitches without really looking for them. In this game they are just all over the place whether you want to find them or not, and the controls are about as broken as you can get on this platform. Apparently it was ported by the same people who made that horrible Donald Duck game for SFC, that explains a lot.

2. Krion Conquest (Magical Doropie). Really difficult to explain what it does wrong, but if you've played it you will recognise it immediately.
On the surface it's a straight up Mega Man clone, which is a great thing to go for, but the way everything works, the game ends up being awfully sluggish. It relies a lot on various skills you can change between by going into the slow start menu, and especially the broom is utilized so often you might be better off just forgetting about the others whenever you can. Most of the enemies are awkward and annoying to fight. Again, it's really difficult to explain what's wrong here, but I'll give this a few more tries to see if it opens up, and if it doesn't, it'll just have to collect dust on my shelf, feeling bad about how expensive it was.