Little things that annoy the hell out of you

[Skykid]

Skykid, you mention arcade games, but the MD actually has a bevy of great arcade ports. It is one of it's strenghts

I was talking about the MD.

Regarding "side scrolling action games" The SFC is literally bursting with quality stuff. The reason why the MD is recognised so well in this area is because it's host to some of the finest examples in 16-bit history.

But while quantity over quality is no winning game, the choice on SFC is still a force of wonder; a literal treasure chest of experiences worth sifting through time and again.

Now shmups, yes, the MD wins that hands down.

[Perikles]

Another big genre where the MD is (this time by a very wide margin)better than the SNES : shmups (!)

Now shmups, yes, the MD wins that hands down.

Only regarding vertical shmups. The SFC has a lot of the best console-exclusive horizontals (BioMetal, Darius Force, Macross, R-Type III) as well as several good or great ports (E.D.F., Gokujou Parodius, Gradius III, Parodius Da!). It's even more impressive if you consider the considerably lower quantity of titles on the SFC compared to the MD. That's not to say that the MD is in dire need of excellent horizontals itself (Crying, Eliminate Down, Gleylancer, Thunder Force IV et al.), but especially when you're interested into higher loops/fiercer challenges, the SFC is superior in my opinion - you're not going to find something similar to Parodius Da!'s or R-Type III's second loop on the MD. For the record, I would attest that the MD is overall better in the shmups department than the SFC, but not by that much.

[FinalBaton]

"side-scrolling action games" is a pretty broad definition. Yoshi's Island and Mega Man X2 are both action games the scroll to the sides, but are quite different games. Contra 3 is a side scrolling action game, and quite possibly the best one there is.
Depending on how specific you go with that one, I think SNES has the upper hand there, but you definitely want to keep a MegaDrive on hand for some of Treasure and Konami's games.

I'll divide it into 2 categories : sidescrolling platformers, and sidescrolling hack 'n slash (excluding the belt scrolling beat 'em ups)

platformers is a draw. the hack 'n slash variety ggoes to the Genesis

[FinalBaton]

Here is my breakdown genre by genre :



Fighting games = draw

Beat 'em ups = I'll actually give this one to the SNES. The MD has some elite ones, but the Capcom medieval themed ones + The Ninja Warriors Again put it over.

Sidescrolling platformers = draw. Lots of excellent stuff on both sides. SNES has the well known stuff and MD has the four Sonic games, Castle of Illusions, Kid Chameleon, Decap Attack, Dynamite Heady, and more minor hits like Ristar and Quackshot.

Sidescrolling adventure/hack'n slash = MD wins. The SNES has some excellent ones in Super Metroid, Valken, Actraiser, Mega Man series and Demon's Crest, but it's edged out by Rocket Knight Adventures, Strider, the 3 Shinobi games, Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, Splatterhouse 2, Ranger-X, Alysia Dragoon, Chikki Chikki Boys, a couple of Monster World games (I'm excluding Contra, Castlevania and Ghouls 'n Ghosts from the discussion, as they have good iterations on both consoles).

RPGs = SNES wins, obviously. But despite having fewer of them, the MD actually has some elite ones in Phantasy Star IV, Shinning Force I & II and Landstalker

Shmups = MD wins

Arcade games = MD wins. this is a weird category since it englobes many genres. Excellent ports of Strider, Streets of Rage series, Ghouls 'n Gosts(superior version to the SNES one), Forgotten Realm, Gain Ground and many more(including classic Sega arcade stalwarts like Outrun, Space Harrier, Super Hang-On) put the MD over

Sports games = MD wins

Puzzle games = I have no idea, I don't know that genre at all!



'Sidescrolling platformers' maybe I could see it go for SNES. And 'arcade games'... hmm I guess a case could be made for a draw. But that's all I'm willing to change opinion on, the rest I'm hell bent on clamouring, so get used to it
Keep in mind I could have very well given the 'Beat 'em up' one to MD! with games like the Streets of Rage series, the Golden Axe series, Splatterhouse 3, and Comix Zone, amongst others

[Xyga]

My cat is such a bitch. Because it was rainy she spent like 99% of the past three days inside as a total slob, only eating and sleeping, the liveliness of a fluffy carpet.

She finally leaves for a stroll, and the first thing she does is fighting the fuck out of the other cats in the neighborhood, like really hard, just in front of the house, AT 3 FUCKING AM.

And I know she started it. For some reason she's adorable to humans, but a nazi to cats.

[Sumez]

Ghouls 'n Gosts(superior version to the SNES one)

Come on now

[Blinge]

Don't wanna wade in on either side but..

Theme of Sumez

[null1024]

Prices for Saturn everything have gotten kind of crazy, should have bought another Saturn to replace my busted one a while ago.
Really tempted to sell my JP copy of Keio 2 since it's fucking tripled in price from when I bought it [actually, I might have gotten lucky as heck with that, I bought it for fuck all].
Machines are going for like $80-90 now. I bought Virtual On for $3+shipping in 2012 [was the netlink edition so it had the nice CD jewel case instead of the hideously fragile US longboxes], it's $20 disc only now.

the only things that have stayed cheap are the Sega Model 2 ports, which are so common that there's nearly no possibility of the price going up,

should totally sell my copy of Leynos 2, I've been meaning to do that for years now, fuck that convoy mission

[Sumez]

Keio 2 and Leynos 2 aren't even in the red zone, the big shmups is mostly where it's at, but also stuff like Elevator Action Returns - why even? The arcade version is nowhere as expensive.

Back when I was buying Saturn games I didn't care that much for shmups, or rather, not enough to pay the "big money" for titles like Hyper Duel, Garegga or Batsugun, although the asking price at the time would have been considered dirt cheap by now. I did get the Donpachis and all Parodius titles and a few others, since those were all affordable. The big one then was Radiant Silvergun, and that's almost a cheap game compared to today's standards. I'm definitely dropping out of Saturn collecting entirely, I'm not gonna support the absurd road it's taken, but I'm keeping the games I already have. Actually I'm also considering selling my European Keio 2. I got that for £10 shipped, so it's actually worth ten times as much as I paid, but I think I prefer having games in my collection rather than cash. And I don't even like Keio 2. It's a beautiful game, but it plays horribly.

[Immryr]

Not sure where you're getting that price for virtual on from. A quick look on eBay shows me at least one listed complete at £5 and two at £6 and that's the buy it now prices.....

Edit - Oh are you talking about the us version? I dunno anything about that.

[BIL]

Keio 2 and Leynos 2 aren't even in the red zone, the big shmups is mostly where it's at, but also stuff like Elevator Action Returns - why even? The arcade version is nowhere as expensive.

Most of VING's Saturn Taito ports seem pricey - Mizubaku Daibouken (supposedly tiny print run), Metal Black and EAR were always up there and it seems Bubble Symphony has crept up too. Got it and Night Striker S for like £30gbp brand new in 2010, the prior three were already triple figures in same nick. Night Striker doesn't seem to have gained, maybe because it's also on PS1? Eh, I don't pay much attention to this stuff.

I got a brand new Taromaru for £300 around the same time. :[ Now it's going for £2k from the same seller. It's... uh, worth 6x what I paid! Or it would be, if I hadn't immediately opened and played the fuck out of it! (it's still pretty mint tbh - wash your hands you filthy animals!)

[Sumez]

Wow! I thought Taromaru was too expensive when it was ~£100. I considered buying it but played a friend's copy and thought it was horrible. I guess I should have given it more of a chance.

Coincidentally I have both Mizubaku, Bubble Symphony, and EAR in their solid state arcade incarnations which I will always prefer, and they were all much cheaper than if I had to pay for a crappy disc based Saturn version.

[BIL]

Yeah it's very idiosyncratic. If you play like shit, it will be shit (see HG101 "review"). Legit one of my favourite sidescrollers ever though. I should do a proper writeup in the sidescroller thread at some point! Here is one for now

Coincidentally I have both Mizubaku, Bubble Symphony, and EAR in their solid state arcade incarnations which I will always prefer, and they were all much cheaper than if I had to pay for a crappy disc based Saturn version.

Eh, I like a well-done port. 3; I even got Dynamite Deka and Sega Larry despite owning M2's massively superior PS2 versions. Collecting is a bitch!

[Sumez]

I like well done ports too, but I do prefer the originals, especially when they are way cheaper. In general I've just become extremely allergic to mechanical media in my later years, so I'd probably prefer the arcade boards even if the Saturn version was superior.

[BIL]

TBH I'm looking forward to the time I can completely shelve my discs in favour of solid state optical drive replacements. From what I understand it's already looking pretty good with Rhea Saturn, etc (and of course, PS2 HDloader has been around forever). I'd have already gotten around to it, but for the last several years I've been studying overseas with all my hardware in storage back home.

Being a bit weird I'd still insist on ripping all my games personally, but otherwise I'd be happy running them off SD card, HDD etc. Like I already do with my small PC game library, basically.

[Mischief Maker]

People who stop their cars across the sidewalk then bury their face in their smartphones even though there's plenty of room ahead in the driveway they're already blocking.

Now I get to pick whether I go behind and give my dog a face full of exhaust, or climb through the neighbor's rose bushes to go in front.

[Strider77]

But the SNES was the overall best platform of the gen. Definitely not always the best technical performer, and its library has big genre holes, but there's no contest.

I vastly prefer the MD to the SNES.... the SNES is half derp machine.

Keep in mind I could have very well given the 'Beat 'em up' one to MD! with games like the Streets of Rage series, the Golden Axe series, Splatterhouse 3, and Comix Zone, amongst others

You should have.... not to mention the SNES had the shitty version of Final Fight.

[orange808]

And the MD version of Smash TV is a laughably pathetic.

[Sumez]

I forgot to take into account that the SNES is half derp machine. That completely changes things.

[Skykid]

I forgot to take into account that the SNES is half derp machine. That completely changes things.

You should have.... not to mention the SNES had the shitty version of Final Fight.

And the superior versions of Street Fighter. It's a non comparison anyway since the MD didn't have Final Fight.

[WelshMegalodon]

And the superior versions of Street Fighter.

Something something "CPS1 chains work in II' Plus but not in II Turbo SFC"

[null1024]

A large part of me wants to say the SNES is the better machine [largely in part because basically everything except raw number crunching performance is flat out better], but there's surprisingly little in the SNES library that I'm really into, while I'm all I great fan of the Genesis one.
The SNES has a hell of a lot more "iconic" titles, but when I just want to get right into the action, I'll look to the Genesis.

TBH I'm looking forward to the time I can completely shelve my discs in favour of solid state optical drive replacements.

oh, absolutely this
Man, I should see if my fat PS2 is in decent enough condition for me to set up HDLoader on it. I shelved it [some of you might remember me talking about it years ago] after it had some disc drive issues [and I still haven't bothered to do the fix I was suggested]. Should be fine though, just need to get a drive, network adapter, and converter.

Keio 2 and Leynos 2 aren't even in the red zone, the big shmups is mostly where it's at, but also stuff like Elevator Action Returns - why even? The arcade version is nowhere as expensive.

Back when I was buying Saturn games I didn't care that much for shmups, or rather, not enough to pay the "big money" for titles like Hyper Duel, Garegga or Batsugun, although the asking price at the time would have been considered dirt cheap by now. I did get the Donpachis and all Parodius titles and a few others, since those were all affordable. The big one then was Radiant Silvergun, and that's almost a cheap game compared to today's standards. I'm definitely dropping out of Saturn collecting entirely, I'm not gonna support the absurd road it's taken, but I'm keeping the games I already have. Actually I'm also considering selling my European Keio 2. I got that for £10 shipped, so it's actually worth ten times as much as I paid, but I think I prefer having games in my collection rather than cash. And I don't even like Keio 2. It's a beautiful game, but it plays horribly.

Yeah, I know the games I'm listing are basically chump change considering the upper end of things, but I basically haven't bothered even glancing in that direction because I'm barely prepared to pay how much some of these went for five years ago, let alone the sky-high prices.

Oh are you talking about the us version? I dunno anything about that.

Yeah, I am. You can still get the JP version for peanuts [which, in the age of basically every Saturn owner having an Action Replay, who the hell is buying these US copies at these prices?]. US Virtual On is basically the only of Sega's Model 2 ports that seems to have dramatically risen in price.

[Strider77]

And the superior versions of Street Fighter. It's a non comparison anyway since the MD didn't have Final Fight.

It most certainly did have Final Fight... the better version also.

And the MD version of Smash TV is a laughably pathetic.

Kinda like Thunder Force 3 and Ys 3 on the SNES....

[BrianC]

And the superior versions of Street Fighter. It's a non comparison anyway since the MD didn't have Final Fight.

It most certainly did have Final Fight... the better version also.

Only on the CD accessory, though. I like the SNES port, myself, but it definitely doesn't hold a candle to the AC and Sega CD versions. I want to like Final Fight 2 and 3 more, but, while 3 is better than 2, they both fall short compared to other beat 'em ups. Batman Returns SNES is one game I found surprisingly enjoyable, though the side scrolling stages are a bit odd.

Oh are you talking about the us version? I dunno anything about that.

Yeah, I am. You can still get the JP version for peanuts [which, in the age of basically every Saturn owner having an Action Replay, who the hell is buying these US copies at these prices?]. US Virtual On is basically the only of Sega's Model 2 ports that seems to have dramatically risen in price.

Reminds me of when some common EU SMS games sold on ebay for over 40 dollars from a US seller, when they can be bought from some EU sellers, including shipping, for under 20.

[Xyga]

Shmupsfarm needs a SNES vs MD definitive final round thread; all genres qualitative comparison battle.

[Sumez]

I was thinking the same thing. This seems to be a perfect way to instigate subjective conflict and drama on the forum. In the fun way, of course.

[Skykid]

And the superior versions of Street Fighter. It's a non comparison anyway since the MD didn't have Final Fight.

It most certainly did have Final Fight... the better version also.

The Mega CD had Final Fight. The Mega Drive and Mega CD are separate consoles that attach to each other.

Kinda like Thunder Force 3 and Ys 3 on the SNES....

Ys 3 is a completely different game to Ys 3 on the PCE, and while the lesser of the two is still actually a fairly fun RPG in its own right.

SNES scrolling beat-em-ups not mentioned include Denjin Makai, Gourmet Sentai, Undercover Cops, Melfand Stories, Batman Returns, Rushing Beat, Super Double Dragon amongst others. Varying quality, but not bad games. Undercover Cops is a remarkable arcade conversion.

[Sumez]

Undercover Cops and the Rushing Beat series are definitely underappreciated brawlers for the SNES. I also kinda liked Legend and SunSoft's Pirates of the Dark Water game.
I think a lot of them just aren't getting a lot of attention due to fans of the genre mostly clinging to the MegaDrive.

[Strider77]

Ys 3 is not a completely different game. It just really sucks on the SNES. Why the hell would you claim it's a totally different game?

Ys 4 is and it sucks compared to the PCE version.

And just because the SNES didn't have a CD Rom... doesn't mean the MD and PCE CD roms magically don't count.

And... if the MD and Mega CD were totally sperate consoles, both would work sperately. Be serious here.

And Rushing Beat and Undercover Cops are QUITE approachable... hell Ninja Warriors on the SNES blows either one of those away.

[Sumez]

Ys 3 is a moot point since you want that one on PC Engine, too.
Seriously though, someone create that console war thread. I'm armed to the teeth despite not really caring about the outcome.