Upgrading from DVDO iScan HD to VP30 ABT102 or VP50, worth?

[tongshadow]

So yea title is self explanatory, atm I own an iScan HD for upscaling PS2/XBOX games and while it's a nice unit capable of amazing upscaling compared to cheap chinese knock-offs, it still has issues upscaling interlaced and 240p sources, introducing massive input delay to my gaming experience.

But now I have a chance to get an VP30+ABT102, which according to Fudoh's site is arguably the best unit for sub 480p gaming, introducing more options and BNC inputs (retro gaming!), being considered even better than the newer DVDO Edge.
The VP50 is pretty good too, but apparently it has issues handling 240p sources.

So, would the VP30 be a better a choice? Would it also be a nice upgrade com my iScan HD?

[Xyga]

The VP30+ABT102 is only the best for deinterlacing 480i sources (like the PS2) with its Game Mode 2, and the lag is about 2 frames (decent if you have a practically lagless display). Fantastic for all the RPGs, average for action games.
Game Mode 1 does 'field deinterlacing' (fast 6ms lag) but is very ugly.

Honestly I have seen some flat panel TVs do almost as good a job with 480i so it is not that exceptional, and only slightly better than the other DVDOs.

For 240p and 480p it is now obsolete, like all DVDOs. Better buy an OSSC for 240p -> best looking and lagless, and let the display do the scaling.

Of course if you have all chained you get the best of both world (VP30+ABT102+OSSC) and even better with a VP50 Pro since it has more flexible sync tolerance and picture quality adjustments.
But this is a very expensive, over the top 'combo' setup by today's going prices.

[tongshadow]

The VP30+ABT102 is only the best for deinterlacing 480i sources (like the PS2) with its Game Mode 2, and the lag is about 2 frames (decent if you have a practically lagless display). Fantastic for all the RPGs, average for action games.
Game Mode 1 does 'field deinterlacing' (fast 6ms lag) but is very ugly.

Honestly I have seen some flat panel TVs do almost as good a job with 480i so it is not that exceptional, and only slightly better than the other DVDOs.

For 240p and 480p it is now obsolete, like all DVDOs. Better buy an OSSC for 240p -> best looking and lagless, and let the display do the scaling.

Of course if you have all chained you get the best of both world (VP30+ABT102+OSSC) and even better with a VP50 Pro since it has more flexible sync tolerance and picture quality adjustments.
But this is a very expensive, over the top 'combo' setup by today's going prices.

Thank you for replying Xyga!
Thing is, an OSSC would be kinda hard to get now (I'd need to import it) and this VP30-ABT102 is at a very interesting price (around 280$). I also cant find a VP50Pro at all, the only other unit I could find was the regular VP50.

240p isnt my focus right now, I'm mainly concerned about input lag on PS2 games since most of them are 480i.

[Lawfer]

I'm mainly concerned about input lag on PS2 games since most of them are 480i.

GSM?

Also 99% of Original Xbox games are 480p capable, the only exception being Xyanide and Darkwatch.

[Fudoh]

I'm mainly concerned about input lag on PS2 games since most of them are 480i.

it's always about quality versus speed. The jump in quality from a SiI504 to an ABT102 is tremendous and the lag is quite acceptable for the results are getting. The lag on the ABT102 is just half frame more compared to the Framemeister.

For 240p and compared to your iScan HD, you're getting faster processing, but you're losing correct 240p recognition (which means you get deinterlacing artefacts on certain 240p effects). But then again I don't think that 240p is your main focus if you're talking about PS2 and XBox.

Yes, there are other scalers out there that have better scaling for 480p inputs, but let's not forget that the VP30 is still an extremely solid performer in that regard and from a usability point of view the DVDOs are still as good as it gets.

VP30/ABT102 or VP50 doesn't make a difference with your sources

[tongshadow]

@Lawfer, unfortunately GSM doesnt work on all games, specially Capcom titles, the image becomes pretty choppy, like it hasnt been deinterlaced.

I'm mainly concerned about input lag on PS2 games since most of them are 480i.

it's always about quality versus speed. The jump in quality from a SiI504 to an ABT102 is tremendous and the lag is quite acceptable for the results are getting. The lag on the ABT102 is just half frame more compared to the Framemeister.

For 240p and compared to your iScan HD, you're getting faster processing, but you're losing correct 240p recognition (which means you get deinterlacing artefacts on certain 240p effects). But then again I don't think that 240p is your main focus if you're talking about PS2 and XBox.

Yea I read about this issue with 240p sources, but wasnt this only the case for Gamemode 1? Afaik Gamemode 2 adds an extra frame of delay, but the overall image becomes better.

[Xyga]

Game Mode 1 = 6ms, treats 240p and 480i equally fast but ugly-looking.
Game Mode 2 = 2 frames, and it's only really good for 480i.

If you want fast and good-looking 240p and don't want to import an OSSC, try to find an old XRGB (specifically XRGB-2 and XRGB-3) at a reasonable price.
You can then 'chain' the XRGB to the VP30+ABT102 using the BNC input, this way you get a 'combo' setup capable of displaying high quality deinterlaced 480i at 2 frames, and high quality 240p, 480p and 720p at 6ms.
All upscaled to 1080p, goes without saying but heh.
Makes a versatile and competent combo, though still quite expensive...

[tongshadow]

Game Mode 1 = 6ms, treats 240p and 480i equally fast but ugly-looking.
Game Mode 2 = 2 frames, and it's only really good for 480i.

If you want fast and good-looking 240p and don't want to import an OSSC, try to find an old XRGB (specifically XRGB-2 and XRGB-3) at a reasonable price.
You can then 'chain' the XRGB to the VP30+ABT102 using the BNC input, this way you get a 'combo' setup capable of displaying high quality deinterlaced 480i at 2 frames, and high quality 240p, 480p and 720p at 6ms.
All upscaled to 1080p, goes without saying but heh.
Makes a versatile and competent combo, though still quite expensive...

Nice, and yes I heard the OSSC+VP30 is perfect for 240p. But what if I use any other line doubler (like an iScan Pro) instead of a XRGB, would it still be good?
XRGBs are extremely hard to find around here :/

[Galgomite]

I have an ABT102+VP20 (a reduced-feature equivalent) and while I use it in conjunction with an OSSC it's a great scaler on its own. If you mostly play 480i titles this might be the best way to go. Also resale value is decent if it doesn't work out for you.

[tongshadow]

I have an ABT102+VP20 (a reduced-feature equivalent) and while I use it in conjunction with an OSSC it's a great scaler on its own. If you mostly play 480i titles this might be the best way to go. Also resale value is decent if it doesn't work out for you.

Yea, these are very rare and sought machines around here lol

So question, how would the iScan Plus/Pro + VP30 (ABT102) combo do for 240p sources?
Unfortunately the Pro only has composite and S-Video inputs but it's still a line doubler, so maybe it's going to solve the issue the VP30 has with 240p sources...

[Fudoh]

So question, how would the iScan Plus/Pro + VP30 (ABT102) combo do for 240p sources?
Unfortunately the Pro only has composite and S-Video inputs but it's still a line doubler, so maybe it's going to solve the issue the VP30 has with 240p sources...

it's ok. A bit silly though. You can basically chain any line doubler to a DVDO scaler. The OSSC just happens to be the best one.

It seems weird to use such a cheap line doubler combined with such a - well - high-end scaling solution.

[telemetry]

But if you already have an iScan HD, why an extra cheap iScan Plus/Pro? You've already got an Si504 in the HD, so if you want the (slightly laggy) 240p recognition, why not link that to a VP30/ABT (if you're planning on getting a VP30 anyway)?

Or perhaps I misunderstood — it seemed like you were suggesting buying an iScan Plus *and* a VP30 to go with your existing iScan HD, which sounds excessive even for the silly Sil504+504 redundancy idea, as Fudoh states.

[tongshadow]

But if you already have an iScan HD, why an extra cheap iScan Plus/Pro? You've already got an Si504 in the HD, so if you want the (slightly laggy) 240p recognition, why not link that to a VP30/ABT (if you're planning on getting a VP30 anyway)?

Or perhaps I misunderstood — it seemed like you were suggesting buying an iScan Plus *and* a VP30 to go with your existing iScan HD, which sounds excessive even for the silly Sil504+504 redundancy idea, as Fudoh states.

Yea it's pretty silly now that I think about it lol
I already got the VP30, but it needs updating and I've already ordered a usb/serial cable that uses the FTDI chipset, hoping for the best because the cable wasnt cheap.

But down the line, I'll just get an OSSC because the OSSC+VP30 combo is pretty strong, the quality for 240p material reaches Framemeister quality and it's slightly less laggy as well.

[RocketBelt]

If you update the VP30 firmware to the latest version theres a bug which means it will no longer scale to 1920x1080.
It's not a big issue. You can set it to a manual resolution of 1918x1080 and have 1 column of blank pixels on either side of the TV, usually the TV won't scale this resolution.
The other option is just to run it at 720p and let the display scale it further - I always found this worked really well.

For PS2 game mode 2 is really nice, much much better than my TV's deinterlacing. I hardly bother with GSM anymore.
One other thing, when using component cables the PS2's picture might be a bit dark. Brightness+10 on the DVDO fixes this. Using RBGS cables instead I found the brightness was correct without any adjustment.

[tongshadow]

If you update the VP30 firmware to the latest version theres a bug which means it will no longer scale to 1920x1080.
It's not a big issue. You can set it to a manual resolution of 1918x1080 and have 1 column of blank pixels on either side of the TV, usually the TV won't scale this resolution.
The other option is just to run it at 720p and let the display scale it further - I always found this worked really well.

For PS2 game mode 2 is really nice, much much better than my TV's deinterlacing. I hardly bother with GSM anymore.
One other thing, when using component cables the PS2's picture might be a bit dark. Brightness+10 on the DVDO fixes this. Using RBGS cables instead I found the brightness was correct without any adjustment.

First time I heard about this bug... so which FW do you recommend and where can I find it?

[RocketBelt]

I would still go with the latest firmware and run the scaler at 720p and let the TV do the rest. You'd have to have your nose on the screen for it to be an issue.

[Xyga]

I have the latest firmware and my VP30 upscales to 1920x1080 without any issues.
Seriously who would believe DVDO would have left a bug like that unattended ? That would be absurd.

Likely though some displays will have issues with the HDMI handshake @1080p, I've experienced it once with the VP30, though a flaky HDMI cable was the culprit.
Changed it; all perfect again.

[RocketBelt]

I have the latest firmware and my VP30 upscales to 1920x1080 without any issues.
Seriously who would believe DVDO would have left a bug like that unattended ? That would be absurd.

Likely though some displays will have issues with the HDMI handshake @1080p, I've experienced it once with the VP30, though a flaky HDMI cable was the culprit.
Changed it; all perfect again.

Glad it worked for you, but it wasn't a cable issue. Someone else on this forum had the same issue, and this is where I learned about the workaround to set a custom resolution with a horizontal width of 1918.
I also came across someone on one of the av forums who had the same issue with the last firmware. It was tucked away in one of those multi-hundred page threads they have on those sites.
Yes it is absurd and I don't know how a bug like that got overlooked but it is definately a thing.

[Lord of Pirates]

I have a similar issue with my U2417H; adjusting the width would fix it until I unplugged it. I have no such issue with my VP50 pro and the VP30 didn't have the issue with the previous display.

[Xyga]

@RocketBelt: As I said it's not a 'bug', rather very much more likely a case of a display that doesn't like the 1080p60 from the VP30.
If it was as you think the issue would reproduce on ALL displays, which definitely isn't the case.

There's also another possibility; believe it or not but with those damn sensitive DVDO machines even an ageing Sinpro power brick can affect compatibility @1080p and up.
I have two of those Sinpro, one impeccable, one getting old and making a faint whistling noise. With the latter the video signal and audio sync will fail intermittently, and if I reduce H Size below 1920 it begins to stabilize.

[tongshadow]

An update on that, my VP30 with FW 1.14 can do 1080p just fine on my display.

[tongshadow]

Might as well post my impressions (from another topic) after getting and updating the machine:

Updating was easier than I thought, all I needed was the latest FTDI drivers from here:
http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm

I'm on Windows 7 64 Bit btw. The installation was a breeze, there's even a guide on the website. The whole update process was also pretty easy and quick, took less than 15 mins to upgrade my VP30 from 1.06 to 1.14.

After the update I finally managed to get the Deinterlacing options, and damn they're pretty useful for PS2 games. GM1 is actually faster than my PS2+cheap HDMI adapter directly connected to my display, which is already pretty much lagless (only 10ms, one of the newer BenQ models). GM2 really does proper deinterlacing and the result matches native progressive images. I'm really satisfied with the result.

Oh but theres more... it's actually also pretty useful to use with a PS3/720P sources. Believe me or not, the result is much better (the overall image is sharper, less blurry and slightly more colorful) than plugging the PS3 directly to my display. That was a pleasant surprise because at first I wasnt expecting much from progressive/HD sources but now I can say it's worth if your TV tends to blur the image for upscaling 720p to 1080p. Oh it also removes the HDCP from HD signals, so recording my games from a PS3 is even easier now thanks to the VP30. I can even post some comparison pictures if anyone desires to see the difference.
Now I can also use it as a Hub for my consoles and cable TV

So yes, at first I wasnt expecting much from the VP30+ABT 102 (I thought I would even regret buying it, was pretty expensive afterall), but now I can safely say that despite being a 10+ year old device, it's still a nice and extremely versatile piece of hardware for displaying a nice picture from any devices on your modern displays. Compared to my iScan HD the VP30 is really on a different league, the newest updates also adds a bunch of nice quality of life features, like Passthrough for HD/Digital signals.

10/10 would buy again.