PS1 NTSC games on PAL unit - black boarders.

[bosozoku]

Hello everyone, my name is Peter and I'm from Ukraine.
The issue is that:
I have SCPH-5502 PAL unit, chipped (idk what chip, it was chipped back in 1997-1998).
I hooked it to my SONY MFM-ht205 monitor via official SONY SCART RGB lead (SCPH-10142), so when I play NTSC-J games, I have not only regular black stripes top and bottom of the screen, but also picture is shifted to the right so there is a black boarder in the left part of the screen.
In some games (Crash Bandicoot, Tekken 3) there is an option for horizontal offset correction, so it is not an issue. But in such games as Ace Combat 3, Metal Gear Solid and many others there is not such an option and this offset really makes my crazy! (There is no offset correction option in monitor settings).
Btw, when PS bootup logo and code, picture is perfectly centered, as shown at screenshots I've made, as well as playing PAL games.
As fas as I concerned, PS1 have multi GPU which havdles both signals (PAL and NTSC), and when I use RGB, only sync is used from composite signal. Maybe this is an issue? Should I strip the component for sync only by modding my SCART cable? Or maybe it is in BIOS, because as far as I remember, NET YAROZE could play NTSC and PAl games with no issues like that... What should I do to make my PAL unit send proper RGB signal to make image centered?
I would be very grateful for any info!

[tomwhite2004]

As fas as I concerned, PS1 have multi GPU which havdles both signals (PAL and NTSC)

If only, PAL consoles are 50hz, NTSC consoles are 60hz.

[Guspaz]

I think that a much bigger issue is that you're stretching the 4:3 image out to the width of a 16:10 monitor, with a 16:9 aspect ratio since you're seeing letterboxing on the top/bottom. Your aspect ratio being totally messed up is a much bigger issue than the image offset.

You can adjust the aspect ratio by using the "zoom" button on your remote, or the "zoom" option in the screen menu. "Normal" should be the correct setting.

I believe that the horizontal offset setting is only available on the PC2 input. The PC2 input (dsub 15, AKA VGA) is listed as only supporting 28 kHz and up, so probably can't be used for your Playstation.

Sync strippers will add additional delay and result in the image being shifted even farther to the right.

It's worth noting that I have a similar issue on my region modded PAL Gamecube. NTSC games are all shifted to the right while PAL is centered, so I solved the problem by adjusting the system-wide offset so that PAL is shifted to the left but NTSC is centered. This works for me because I never use PAL software on it.

[bosozoku]

As fas as I concerned, PS1 have multi GPU which havdles both signals (PAL and NTSC)

If only, PAL is 50hz, NTSC is 60hz.

Yes, but it is determined by SOFTWARE only, and when use RGB, ntsc or pal it does not matter...
I thought it is in TV, but my 32" Samsung LCD shows the same issue...
I've read that people play ntsc games in 60fps fullscreen on PAL PS1, so is it only my particular case...?

Guspaz
So this H offset can't be fixed?
I can afford Japanese 5500 console, but 110V is a pain here in Europe, and I do not need 2 PS1s...
Maybe it is some kind of mod in my console (color mod or something) besides modchip that causes this offset issue?

[bosozoku]

I think that a much bigger issue is that you're stretching the 4:3 image out to the width of a 16:10 monitor, with a 16:9 aspect ratio since you're seeing letterboxing on the top/bottom. Your aspect ratio being totally messed up is a much bigger issue than the image offset.

You can adjust the aspect ratio by using the "zoom" button on your remote, or the "zoom" option in the screen menu. "Normal" should be the correct setting.

I believe that the horizontal offset setting is only available on the PC2 input. The PC2 input (dsub 15, AKA VGA) is listed as only supporting 28 kHz and up, so probably can't be used for your Playstation.

Sync strippers will add additional delay and result in the image being shifted even farther to the right.

I also see this horizontal stripes at ANY CRT of LCD TV. Kinda makes me sick, 'cause in PAL it shoud be perfect fullscreen, but it isn't!!! It is like NTSC black stripes just off BOOT screen... Even in PAL games. But when I play NTSC, it is also shifted o the right...
How you corrected this, INSIDE your GameCube? Is there some pots in PS to offset the ntsc image, cause I never played PAL (it sucks 25fps... Tekken 3 and Crash bandicoot is unplateble in PAL, imho)

[Guspaz]

I don't know enough about the reason you're seeing the offset to suggest a solution, although the offset will be a bit less noticeable with the correct aspect ratio, since you'll have black bars on both the left and the right... Only, one will be larger than the other. On the other hand, it's also worth seeing if correcting the aspect ratio will resolve the issue (who knows).

[Guspaz]

I also see this horizontal stripes at ANY CRT of LCD TV. Kinda makes me sick, 'cause in PAL it shoud be perfect fullscreen

No, standard definition PAL consoles are typically outputting a 4:3 aspect ratio. The PS1 is. That's a 16:10 display, so you're taking the 4:3 image output by the console and stretching it out into a 16:9 image and then displaying it on a 16:10 screen, leading to letterboxing.

This is what a 4:3 image looks like on a 16:10 display:

https://gyazo.com/95b88e2734c3b0d218aa6904fd7d6c86

This is what a 16:9 image looks like on a 16:10 display:

https://gyazo.com/3c5fdbbc80b2d1e62ddbee8f5ff932f0

The PS1 outputs a 4:3 image, so if your screen looks like the second photo here, it's being stretched to 16:9, which is incorrect. It should look like the first image.

[bosozoku]

I also see this horizontal stripes at ANY CRT of LCD TV. Kinda makes me sick, 'cause in PAL it shoud be perfect fullscreen

No, standard definition PAL is, like NTSC, a 4:3 aspect ratio. That's a 16:10 display, so you're taking the 4:3 image output by the console and stretching it out into a 16:9 image and then displaying it on a 16:10 screen, leading to letterboxing.

This is what a 4:3 image looks like on a 16:10 display:

https://gyazo.com/95b88e2734c3b0d218aa6904fd7d6c86

This is what a 16:9 image looks like on a 16:10 display:

https://gyazo.com/3c5fdbbc80b2d1e62ddbee8f5ff932f0

The PS1 outputs a 4:3 image, so if your screen looks like the second photo here, it's being stretched to 16:9, which is incorrect.

Please, understand me right, when I hook my PS1 to CRT (4:3) TV, via composite, I see the same black boarders, boot, pal games, ntsc games... there is something in hardware I guess... I've never opened it, maybe there is some ntsc force, or color correction mod inside which causes this black stripes. When ntsc disc, it is also shifted right...

I need to talk with real PS1 technician guy who could shed some light at this issue, no flood please.

P.S. I am not the only one who have this issue:
http://psx-scene.com/forums/f10/ntsc-ga ... et-156861/

[Xyga]

Most PAL consoles play PAL games in 50Hz with black borders anyway, it's normal and happens on every display. The only exceptions are when the developer cared to optimize the game for PAL (e.g Wipeout 3)

Chipped consoles also play PAL 50Hz games with black borders, and NTSC 60Hz in fullscreen without borders. I think the PS1 can't force PAL games to run in 60Hz like with the other consoles that can be modded with a 50/60 switch.

In regards to the offset; it is possible that the chip is to blame...mine doesn't do this but I've seen similar cases long ago.

PS: and it might be to blame for the black border even with NTSC games as well, which isn't normal.
PS2: by the way the boot screen is always in 50Hz regardless of the games region.

[Guspaz]

The black bars on the top and bottom on those cases are coming from embedding a 240 or 480 pixel tall image inside a 288 or 576 pixel tall PAL video frame. That isn't your problem here, your problem is that you're stretching a non-widescreen PS1 image to the width of a widescreen display. The PS1, be it PAL or NTSC, should never have the image take up the full width of your 16:10 display. Your display has a setting for this, you have it on the wrong setting.

[bosozoku]

Most PAL consoles play PAL games in 50Hz with black borders anyway, it's normal and happens on every display. The only exceptions are when the developer cared to optimize the game for PAL (e.g Wipeout 3)

Chipped consoles also play PAL 50Hz games with black borders, and NTSC 60Hz in fullscreen without borders. I think the PS1 can't force PAL games to run in 60Hz like with the other consoles that can be modded with a 50/60 switch.

In regards to the offset; it is possible that the chip is to blame...mine doesn't do this but I've seen similar cases long ago.

PS: and it might be to blame for the black border even with NTSC games as well, which isn't normal.
PS2: by the way the boot screen is always in 50Hz regardless of the games region.

I thought modcip only used to send CD subinfo to cd controller kinda thing to play burned/imported games...
I will try to show console to my local PS1 tech guy and maybe re-chip it with a different modchip...

[bosozoku]

The black bars on the top and bottom on those cases are coming from embedding a 240 or 480 pixel tall image inside a 288 or 576 pixel tall PAL video frame. That isn't your problem here, your problem is that you're stretching a non-widescreen PS1 image to the width of a widescreen display. The PS1, be it PAL or NTSC, should never have the image take up the full width of your 16:10 display. Your display has a setting for this, you have it on the wrong setting.

Stretched image is ok for me, cant stand those thick black tboarders at the both sides... the main issue hat bothers me is horizontal offset to the right, I and will try to figure it out by diggin into hardware, idk what was installed back in the 1997 in this unit to play every game in color and what chip is inside...

[Xyga]

I thought modcip only used to send CD subinfo to cd controller kinda thing to play burned/imported games...

Yes that's what they do (supposedly!). Anyway what's important is that PAL consoles like the playstation output most PAL games with those black borders on top and bottom regardless of the presence of a chip or not, only a display with zoom or overscan settings can hide the borders.
But a playstation with a chip is supposed to output NTSC games in 60HZ without those borders, if you still see the borders on any display in this case, then you probably have a problem with the chip, yes.

I remember seeing awful PS2 modchips forcing ALL games to output in 50Hz with borders, even NTSC ones. I don't know if some PS1 chips also do this.

[neorichieb1971]

I have a NTSC PS1 and none of my games have any issues at all. No matter PAL or NTSC.

I don't see how a modchip will affect video performance in any way. Its just a way of getting round a locking mechanism.

There was a story I read once where in SCART the timing shifts the image. This isn't the story, but this is similar -

https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussio ... eft-in-rgb

Apparently the image centering is done with PAL in mind. And sometimes RGB's timing forces the image out of whack a bit. If it does this on the composite or svideo inputs as well, its not anything to do with what I am saying. And regardless of modchip, it should display in black and white if your playing a game that is NTSC on a PAL PS1.

[Xyga]

Not performance: output mode.
Mine is PAL and fine too with anything I throw at it, but we have to keep in mind there's been various kinds of chips/mods and quite a number of console hardware revisions as well. I wouldn't dismiss anything based on the belief that it should always be working that one way we know.
I remember well my favourite local modder got some unpleasant surprises with the transition to new boards and chips sometimes, the PS1 though I admit wasn't supposed to pose much problems.

[bosozoku]

Not performance: output mode.
Mine is PAL and fine too with anything I throw at it, but we have to keep in mind there's been various kinds of chips/mods and quite a number of console hardware revisions as well. I wouldn't dismiss anything based on the belief that it should always be working that one way we know.
I remember well my favourite local modder got some unpleasant surprises with the transition to new boards and chips sometimes, the PS1 though I admit wasn't supposed to pose much problems.

How do you connected it? By composite, s-video, scart rgb? If scart, is it scph-1052 or scph-10142?

[Xyga]

Always scart RGB, not Sony but third party, like this one:

[Xer Xian]

@bosozoku: Your display should allow for H centering on the HD15 (VGA) input: http://www.manualmonitor.com/manuals/so ... -HT205.pdf (page 25). You can buy a cheap (and generally low-quality) VGA box and hook up the PS1 to this connector. Or better, go for an OSSC/XRGB/Waka upscan converter which will for sure give you a superior video quality too (your display has to upscale PS1 240p output to its native resolution and it most likely doesn't do a stellar job).

Also, RGB isn't supposed to fill up the screen just by itself. It's true that SCART/RGB aren't necessarily tied to a specific resolution, but they will always carry whatever the console output is without any resolution change.

[bosozoku]

For now I've decided dig into hardware.
It is NOT tv, not rgb lead, it is in console end, I suppose, it is wrong chipping/color mod were done to my ps1. Will test it with s-video to be sure!

[BuckoA51]

Geesh! You're worried about RGB shift while doing THAT to the image?

Anyway, when you force a PAL PS1 into NTSC, remember that you're generating the timings etc using the wrong oscillator. Usually this affects more modern TVs by causing a framerate conversion to take place. Installing a dual frequency oscillator or other similar mod might help. Failing that you could pipe it through a Extron interface with horizontal image adjust.

[bosozoku]

Geesh! You're worried about RGB shift while doing THAT to the image?

Anyway, when you force a PAL PS1 into NTSC, remember that you're generating the timings etc using the wrong oscillator. Usually this affects more modern TVs by causing a framerate conversion to take place. Installing a dual frequency oscillator or other similar mod might help. Failing that you could pipe it through a Extron interface with horizontal image adjust.

Thank you for your reply!
You mean, this problem lays in oscillator?
If I change oscillator with one from ntsc console, my problem is gone? Would my ps1 be identical to ntsc unit?
I've found this mod - http://www.psxdev.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=628
Would be an ideal solution.

[BuckoA51]

Try http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5744.0

I have one in my PS1 and it works great, PAL and NTSC titles run at exactly the right refresh, curing the stuttering problem I had on my TV. I can't say for sure that it would fix your problem though.

I'll be putting the first batch of Micro's dual frequency oscillators up for sale next week.

[Lawfer]

Apparently from what I read on Assembler Games, if you use say a later revision of the PS1 such as the SCPH-5XXX series with a Japanese or US game on a PAL PS1, the game will NOT output in NTSC as it should, but rather it will output in PAL. Apparently it is due to the fact that they changed the video encoder/decoder in the later revisions of the PS1.

To avoid any problems the best thing to do is to play NTSC U/C games on an actual NTSC U/C hardware.

Also as someone mentioned, you are stretching a 4:3 output on a widescreen display, not to mention the PS1 is 320x240 (320x288 for PAL games).

[bosozoku]

I've contacted my local tech guy, he says that my particular problem is in quartz resonator which were installed side by side with a modchip (I don't know for what reason), but he says all I need to do is to unsolder this quartz resonator (or generator, idk) and everything should run just fine!
TV is not an issue as well as my cable, both handle PAL and NTSC with no problem, so issue is in tricky installed modchip... maybe it was done because of the fact, that in 90's most of PS software were pirated in my country, and for some reason it was NTSC releases, so to play it properly in color in PAL TV sets, which were most common in European part of the world, such a modification was necessary.

[Xyga]

Yeah PS1 mods are overall simple and almost always work fine, but they're also more or less complex depending on which model and what chip (and what modder!) is involved. Also the kind of TV compatibility that is expected.
I remember a Romanian guy telling me the modded PS1 he bought in France (modded to output NTSC games in a bastard fullscreen 60Hz mode) wouldn't do for imported games because all the CRT TVs he tried back in his country were PAL 50Hz-only, with no NTSC compatibility mode.
At the time in western Europe TVs with an included NTSC-read mode were getting more common, so there was an unexpected discrepancy.

[Fudoh]

I remember a Romanian guy telling me the modded PS1 he bought in France (modded to output NTSC games in a bastard fullscreen 60Hz mode) wouldn't do for imported games because all the CRT TVs he tried back in his country were PAL 50Hz-only, with no NTSC compatibility mode.

don't you think it was more for the lack of a RGB cable ? Modded PAL PS1 systems would output NTSC games in 60Hz, but you had no chance to get a color signal from either composite or s-video, so RGB was required.

[Xyga]

I don't remember what cable he had, just that it remembered me the needs could be different depending on the tvs available locally and the mods might be different because of that too.

BTW: while reading about it I've seen mention of swappable boot disks used to play imports but also to force video modes and even move the picture horizontally and vertically. I have no expericne with those though, don't know if they're really useful.

[Obiwanshinobi]

PAL PSX outputs 60 Hz no problem (unlike PAL Saturn, which needs a specific modification for the sake of doing so). I realise that OP wasn't asking; I'm only correcting some persistent misinformation, apparently up and running as late as this day and age.

[bosozoku]

Found it.

But when I unsoldered this 4,43 resonator, chip isn't working... any suggestions? Should I connect 2 pins where this resonator was connected to?

[BuckoA51]

PAL PSX outputs 60 Hz no problem (unlike PAL Saturn, which needs a specific modification for the sake of doing so)

Not really "no problem", given how far out the vertical refresh rate is, I think nearly 59.1 last time I looked at it with an Extron interface.