gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thread

[superg]

Hi superg,

Looking forward to the gscartlite. Quick question...

I have a the gscartsw3.4 running into a framemeister, but am now out of ports for my collection so looking to buy a lite.

Any drawbacks from daisy chaining the lite into the 3.4? and any recommended order before it goes to my framemeister?

Thanks in advance
Adam

Hey,

Two options are possible:
1. lite is plugged into v3.4: you benefit from sync regeneration on lite ports and retaining v3.4 default port 8 forwarding (which is only needed for PS2 VGA mode)
2. v3.4 plugged into lite: you benefit for sync regeneration on all ports combined but no port 8 default forwarding

Other than those two things you should be fine.

[Guspaz]

It should be clarified that default port 8 forwarding is not only required for PS2 VGA mode. There are other things that it may be required for:

1) Use with YPbPr. A variety of devices typically connected to a gscartsw (PVM, BVM, OSSC, FramemeisteR) support RGB/YPbPr through the same inputs. This can be solved with something like a GARO, but that's an extra (and not insignificant) expense.

2) Use with retro computers. NeXT, Amiga, Commodore CDTV, I believe at least some models from from these companies/families were sync-on-green.

[CapGunOutlaw]

Sync on luma will work on gscart lite correct?

[amb47uk]

Hi superg,

Looking forward to the gscartlite. Quick question...

I have a the gscartsw3.4 running into a framemeister, but am now out of ports for my collection so looking to buy a lite.

Any drawbacks from daisy chaining the lite into the 3.4? and any recommended order before it goes to my framemeister?

Thanks in advance
Adam

Hey,

Two options are possible:
1. lite is plugged into v3.4: you benefit from sync regeneration on lite ports and retaining v3.4 default port 8 forwarding (which is only needed for PS2 VGA mode)
2. v3.4 plugged into lite: you benefit for sync regeneration on all ports combined but no port 8 default forwarding

Other than those two things you should be fine.

Thankyou, I guess option 2 is the one I'll go for - I use component for my PS2 through a separate switch into the framemeister. Could you please explain the benefit of sync regeneration (my knowledge on all this is limited)?

Guspaz, I have an amiga a600 (rgb out) and Amigacd32 (rgb modded), I think these both worked when not in Port 8, but I would have to test to be sure.

[Guspaz]

Hi superg,

Looking forward to the gscartlite. Quick question...

I have a the gscartsw3.4 running into a framemeister, but am now out of ports for my collection so looking to buy a lite.

Any drawbacks from daisy chaining the lite into the 3.4? and any recommended order before it goes to my framemeister?

Thanks in advance
Adam

Hey,

Two options are possible:
1. lite is plugged into v3.4: you benefit from sync regeneration on lite ports and retaining v3.4 default port 8 forwarding (which is only needed for PS2 VGA mode)
2. v3.4 plugged into lite: you benefit for sync regeneration on all ports combined but no port 8 default forwarding

Other than those two things you should be fine.

Thankyou, I guess option 2 is the one I'll go for - I use component for my PS2 through a separate switch into the framemeister. Could you please explain the benefit of sync regeneration (my knowledge on all this is limited)?

Guspaz, I have an amiga a600 (rgb out) and Amigacd32 (rgb modded), I think these both worked when not in Port 8, but I would have to test to be sure.

I may be mistaken about them, I know that some older computers do RGsB, and googling to find out which ones was hard. It could be people were referencing some custom SCART cable they were making for some particular setup.

[NJRoadfan]

Amigas output both composite and H+V sync from the 23-pin video port. Sync-on-Green wasn't all that common on computers, some older NuBus video cards for Macs and a handful of *NIX workstations output SoG. Despite it being nowhere in the technical documents, the Apple IIgs appears to output SoG too (I discovered this when the OSSC locked onto it when in RGsB mode) despite also having composite sync output.

[superg]

It should be clarified that default port 8 forwarding is not only required for PS2 VGA mode. There are other things that it may be required for:

1) Use with YPbPr. A variety of devices typically connected to a gscartsw (PVM, BVM, OSSC, FramemeisteR) support RGB/YPbPr through the same inputs. This can be solved with something like a GARO, but that's an extra (and not insignificant) expense.

2) Use with retro computers. NeXT, Amiga, Commodore CDTV, I believe at least some models from from these companies/families were sync-on-green.

As far as I know Sync on Green is the Sony feature.
I won't be supporting all the bizarre hardware configurations (and increasing the switch price by another $20), Sync on Green is not standard signal. Using SCART switch as component switch is something users can do on their own through adapters but I won't be doing anything to make it easier because that will increase switch price as well.
I'm working on a separate SoG2RGBS device.
That's all I can say about it.

[superg]

Sync on luma will work on gscart lite correct?

Yes, it will work.

[Guspaz]

I won't be supporting all the bizarre hardware configurations (and increasing the switch price by another $20)

Please understand that I am not suggesting or requesting this in the slightest. I'm merely objecting to the statement of "only needed for PS2 VGA mode". I'm not requesting any hardware changes, I'm just asking that you not say that this is only a PS2 thing. There are electronics that output SoG signals that are not made by Sony, and there are displays that support SoG that are not made by Sony. That's all, just asking you to communicate this differently.

[superg]

I won't be supporting all the bizarre hardware configurations (and increasing the switch price by another $20)

Please understand that I am not suggesting or requesting this in the slightest. I'm merely objecting to the statement of "only needed for PS2 VGA mode". I'm not requesting any hardware changes, I'm just asking that you not say that this is only a PS2 thing. There are electronics that output SoG signals that are not made by Sony, and there are displays that support SoG that are not made by Sony. That's all, just asking you to communicate this differently.

SoG itself isn't a problem, RGB lines are forwarded just fine. The problem is that when PS2 is in VGA mode it stops outputting sync pin and this is a specific PS2 problem. To be honest I don't care much about obscure SoG hardware nobody has. gscartsw owners haven't reported anything other than PS2 SoG.

[gearheadtocz]

Can the gscart v3.4 safely use TTL level Csync at the inputs? Is the output from the gscart sync ttl or 75ohm? I know the framemeister is not designed for TTL levels and some pvms aren't designed for that either. Please let me know when you have the time.

[Rikrok]

superg I'm sorry if you get asked this all the time and can't say, but could give a rough idea (days/weeks/months) of when pre-orders for the gscartsw_lite might start and how long after that to receive one? I'm trying to decide whether to hold out or waste money and buy a cheap switch in the mean time to keep me going.

[Wolf_]

I won't be supporting all the bizarre hardware configurations (and increasing the switch price by another $20)

Please understand that I am not suggesting or requesting this in the slightest. I'm merely objecting to the statement of "only needed for PS2 VGA mode". I'm not requesting any hardware changes, I'm just asking that you not say that this is only a PS2 thing. There are electronics that output SoG signals that are not made by Sony, and there are displays that support SoG that are not made by Sony. That's all, just asking you to communicate this differently.

SoG itself isn't a problem, RGB lines are forwarded just fine. The problem is that when PS2 is in VGA mode it stops outputting sync pin and this is a specific PS2 problem. To be honest I don't care much about obscure SoG hardware nobody has. gscartsw owners haven't reported anything other than PS2 SoG.

On the subject of Ps2 SoG will your cable support lightguns being plugged into it?

Also would you ever consider adding digital optical audio in on the gscart lite since the ps2 offers superior audio out via digital?

[superg]

Can the gscart v3.4 safely use TTL level Csync at the inputs? Is the output from the gscart sync ttl or 75ohm? I know the framemeister is not designed for TTL levels and some pvms aren't designed for that either. Please let me know when you have the time.

EDIT: it won't work as is. To make it work it has to be connected through 200ohm resistor.

superg I'm sorry if you get asked this all the time and can't say, but could give a rough idea (days/weeks/months) of when pre-orders for the gscartsw_lite might start and how long after that to receive one? I'm trying to decide whether to hold out or waste money and buy a cheap switch in the mean time to keep me going.

I will open gscartsw_lite pre-orders early next week, preferably Monday. It will be open for 2 weeks and it will take up to 6 weeks until I will have them here. So I'd say 2 months from now.

On the subject of Ps2 SoG will your cable support lightguns being plugged into it?
Also would you ever consider adding digital optical audio in on the gscart lite since the ps2 offers superior audio out via digital?

You mean composite (yellow) RCA break out or something else?
I'm still undecided about that SoG adapter form factor, I may do a SCART_female-SCART_male style thing.
As of optical support, no, I don't think so. If you're into hi quality audio you should own a receiver and there you can map and forward one of the optical inputs easily.

[Wolf_]

On the subject of Ps2 SoG will your cable support lightguns being plugged into it?
Also would you ever consider adding digital optical audio in on the gscart lite since the ps2 offers superior audio out via digital?

You mean composite (yellow) RCA break out or something else?
I'm still undecided about that SoG adapter form factor, I may do a SCART_female-SCART_male style thing.
As of optical support, no, I don't think so. If you're into hi quality audio you should own a receiver and there you can map and forward one of the optical inputs easily.

Yup, just simple composite video breakout for lightguns would be good because I love to play lightgun games but also really like 480p over scart.

And yes I do have my own receiver with multiple digital optical audio inputs but the PS2 is the only console that has analogue video and digital audio, probably because it's made by Sony. Anyways I have my analogue consoles go into an xrgb mini and that go into a hdmi switch with all my hdmi consoles so I only have 1 hdmi line in and I have a hdmi in to hdmi + digital optical audio out box and that is how I get all my audio out directly to my receiver on one line... with the exception of PS2 and having to switch audio inputs for 1 console just makes the ocd part of my brain freak out.

[superg]

And yes I do have my own receiver with multiple digital optical audio inputs but the PS2 is the only console that has analogue video and digital audio, probably because it's made by Sony. Anyways I have my analogue consoles go into an xrgb mini and that go into a hdmi switch with all my hdmi consoles so I only have 1 hdmi line in and I have a hdmi in to hdmi + digital optical audio out box and that is how I get all my audio out directly to my receiver on one line... with the exception of PS2 and having to switch audio inputs for 1 console just makes the ocd part of my brain freak out.

Oh, ok. Yeah, you have to manually switch to PS2 sound but anyways it's better than nothing. Optical is tricky because it's digital and it requires a lot of logic to switch it, I would rather not go there.

[Wolf_]

And yes I do have my own receiver with multiple digital optical audio inputs but the PS2 is the only console that has analogue video and digital audio, probably because it's made by Sony. Anyways I have my analogue consoles go into an xrgb mini and that go into a hdmi switch with all my hdmi consoles so I only have 1 hdmi line in and I have a hdmi in to hdmi + digital optical audio out box and that is how I get all my audio out directly to my receiver on one line... with the exception of PS2 and having to switch audio inputs for 1 console just makes the ocd part of my brain freak out.

Oh, ok. Yeah, you have to manually switch to PS2 sound but anyways it's better than nothing. Optical is tricky because it's digital and it requires a lot of logic to switch it, I would rather not go there.

Damn ps2 always causing problems. Anyways please don't forget about us lightgun fans when you make your cables. Unless you are having a ps2 to scart cable plug into yours because if that is the case then it would probably be better to have the composite out on the main cable for cable management.

[gearheadtocz]

Hello. Can the gscart v3.4 safely work with TTL sync? When the sync stripper is enabled does it output 75ohm sync or is it higher voltage if the lm1881 is receiving ttl level sync at it's input?

[superg]

Hello. Can the gscart v3.4 safely work with TTL sync? When the sync stripper is enabled does it output 75ohm sync or is it higher voltage if the lm1881 is receiving ttl level sync at it's input?

Read my answer a few posts before.

[gearheadtocz]

Sorry, I didn't see that and wasn't notified the about the post.

[gearheadtocz]

So the 200 ohm resistor would be for the gscart's input if receiving ttl level sync? In series or as a pull down?

What is the output from the gscart? With the 1881 being used and if it is off?

[superg]

So the 200 ohm resistor would be for the gscart's input if receiving ttl level sync? In series or as a pull down?

What is the output from the gscart? With the 1881 being used and if it is off?

In series. You'll get TTL from VGA and 75ohm from SCART.

[gearheadtocz]

I actually wasn't referring to vga. Most of the scart cables people are buying are custom and use Csync instead of composite video for sync.
I understand the scart standard is 75 ohm with composite but a lot of people have cables that send TTL sync out with no components on that sync lead.
One console that definitely outputs TTL is the megadrive/genesis.
In those cases would the 200 ohm resistor be the solution?

[gearheadtocz]

So you know I'm talking about signals input into the gscart.
Was your last answer about the gscart's output?

[superg]

I actually wasn't referring to vga. Most of the scart cables people are buying are custom and use Csync instead of composite video for sync.
I understand the scart standard is 75 ohm with composite but a lot of people have cables that send TTL sync out with no components on that sync lead.
One console that definitely outputs TTL is the megadrive/genesis.
In those cases would the 200 ohm resistor be the solution?

As far as I know, most csync cables are not TTL sync. Megadrive has separate TTL csync pin yes but it doesn't mean anything. Often by stating CSYNC cable it's meant that LM1881 is integrated into SCART enclosure.

So you know I'm talking about signals input into the gscart.
Was your last answer about the gscart's output?

My answer was about gscartsw output when you use TTL with 200ohm resistor on input.

[bobrocks95]

As far as I know, most csync cables are not TTL sync. Megadrive has separate TTL csync pin yes but it doesn't mean anything. Often by stating CSYNC cable it's meant that LM1881 is integrated into SCART enclosure.

As far as I can tell, at least in most cases, CSync cables actually use a console's CSync pin, but sellers include a resistor (or whatever it is you need) to get it from TTL to 75 Ohms. I don't think a sync stripper is used unless you explicitly need one, since most RGB-capable NTSC consoles have a CSync pin.

[superg]

As far as I know, most csync cables are not TTL sync. Megadrive has separate TTL csync pin yes but it doesn't mean anything. Often by stating CSYNC cable it's meant that LM1881 is integrated into SCART enclosure.

As far as I can tell, at least in most cases, CSync cables actually use a console's CSync pin, but sellers include a resistor (or whatever it is you need) to get it from TTL to 75 Ohms. I don't think a sync stripper is used unless you explicitly need one, since most RGB-capable NTSC consoles have a CSync pin.

None of the cables I have here are like what you describe. And I must say I've got quite a few here for switch testing. I've seen megadrive cables with sync stripper builtin.
But what you say about resistor and CSYNC makes sense.

[gearheadtocz]

Thanks again for all the replies.
So let's say there is no lm1881 involved and the Csync output IS being used from a genesis or similar console with no components on that sync line.....is that TTL signal harmful and does it need to be attenuated?
I have seen many scart cables with that exact setup where it's straight from console Csync to the Scart hood with NO components.

[superg]

Thanks again for all the replies.
So let's say there is no lm1881 involved and the Csync output IS being used from a genesis or similar console with no components on that sync line.....is that TTL signal harmful and does it need to be attenuated?
I have seen many scart cables with that exact setup where it's straight from console Csync to the Scart hood with NO components.

It definitely won't be forwarded by the switch. As of damage it shouldn't but I'm not 100% sure.

[gearheadtocz]

You are very helpful and I really appreciate you taking the time to answer me.