Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[kitten]

I never quite understood the elevated status of Mega Man 2, however. As if it did anything the other games didn't do better.

i feel like 2 far and away has the best set of robot master stages and most iconic robot master designs. i like its audio/video work a hell of a lot, too. superb pacing up to that point, incredible variety of situations, mostly useful weapon set, etc. i really like that many bosses have multiple weaknesses, too. however, 2's wily stages are undeniably weak and have hit or miss bosses, and wily stage 4 is completely, unforgivably awful as a stage and contains the worst boss fight in the entire series. i like that some of 2's wily bosses get wild and out there (i still adore the dragon fight, as flawed as it is), but boobeam flopped, and it flopped hard. i sincerely think that 2 would be a better game with that level removed, full stop. not replaced, just entirely taken out of the game. i really feel like the wily stages got a bit rushed out the door in this title and understand when people place 2 lower than certain others due to its wind being sucked out from under its sails in its latter 2/5ths.

flashman's stage is so based on trial and error it almost hurts.

...really? O_o first time i've really heard that posited against it. i'm also curious where you're coming from considering 2 the easiest, that i don't think i've ever heard.

I find it extremely confusing that you would rate 4 that high while placing 3 so low on the list. I always found that the two were extremely close in terms of quality and generel design tendencies.

3 is the only of the fc games i think is so weak that i actually rate it only 2/4 stars. 5 i give 3 stars, everything else is 4 (probably a whopping 10% of my 4-star rated games are mega man games lmao). i feel like the 8 robot master stages are a bit weak at times - both aesthetically and mechanically. hard man, needle man, and magnet man's stages are both extremely dull/repetitive in their visual work for a mega man title, and most of the levels, in general, are very poorly themed around their respective robot master than most other games, as well. i feel like one of the biggest draws of the entire series is the themed stages, and some of the ones in 3 just don't make any sense. why is top man in a greenhouse? why are you fighting space tadpoles in gemini man's weirdo crystal stage? why the fuck is the ninja in a lava factory? the enemies often poorly reflect their respective robot master, too, and make the whole game feel a little thrown together, imo.

aesthetic nitpicking aside, the robot master levels in 3 just feel a tad bland. they're not necessarily bad, but i feel like they're of a notably worse variety than the rest of the series. i also feel as if the doc robot stages are the worst stages in an NES mega man, full stop. they are horrendously paced and extremely lazily slapped together. most of the boss refights have slightly wrong behaviors to their patterns, humongous hitboxing (lol don't try to get behind air man), and hilariously large damage values that suggest this may be the only of the NES games where the designers actually wanted you to use e-tanks as anything other than a last-resort crutch. there's also stuff like the horrendously broken rush jet, which is extremely easy to abuse (needle man's doc robot revisit suggests that you're supposed to abuse the jump-and-don't-consume energy, too). some of the enemy design is the worst in the series, too - that beehive enemy is completely awful and that weird screw/bolt-thing is a real pace-disruptor (its placement in shock man's doc robot revisit is just obnoxious. time to ez mode rush jet through that shit!).

the wily stages are all notably easier and simpler than the doc robot stages and other wily stages for the series, too. they're short, seem to recycle more than normal, and lack any sort of punch after what you've just been through. the yellow devil is also a pretty awful fight compared to his wonderfully tense iteration in the first game. the weapon set in 3 is also straight-up the absolute worst in the series - most of the weapons are entirely useless aside from shadow blade, which feels like a notably gimped metal blade. 3 also marks where the series started to do the whole "each boss only has a single weakness" thing, which i feel was a poor decision.

if you're not familiar - and my apologies if you are, but i'll explain for anyone else reading just in case - 3 had a seriously troubled development cycle with akira kitamura (director of 1&2 and "real" creator of mega man) basically just walking out. inafune has talked about a panic setting in because of this, and said that he considered the game to be considerably weaker than 2. hence why the doc robot stages were added in and you did refights of each of the mm2 robot masters. he thought that putting the bosses from the well-loved previous title into this one would somehow boost it up. a huge sign of a total lack of confidence in what they were doing with this entry, imo, and i seriously feel like the sloppiness and unsure design carries over to the game. 3's music is absolutely great and possibly the best in the series and i feel like if they had spent more time tightening up the 8 robot masters instead of stupidly going after the doc robot thing, they could have made 3 great. if it existed in a vacuum as the only rockman title, i might go as far as to consider it excellent, but because it doesn't, i feel like it's the (really weirdly well loved) black sheep.

mind you, i still like it, flaws and all. it is definitely my least favorite and one i enjoy replaying the least, however.

4 i consider to be super great! i really like it a whole bunch. some of the best visual work of the entire series, good music (2 and 3 still have the best), excellent pacing, and what i would genuinely consider to be the most consistent quality throughout its stages of any of the nes games. the cossack stages in 4 are aesthetically brilliant compared to the drab wily+ levels in each of the rest of the games, and the wily stages have some really fun themes to them (i love mettaur city). 4 almost indisputably has the best weapon set of the entire series, too, with each weapon having a unique purpose and utility to make them stand out. i really like most of the robot master fights and love the themes around each of them, too. my biggest complaint with 4 is that it is too easy and too low stakes, however, almost to the point of being bland.

i usually tell people that contra is my all-time favorite series, but i have definitely played more mega man than anything - and holy goddamn shit have i played a lot of it. i've beaten all of them without e-tanks/recovery items or dying a single time, with the exception of 7, which i think i used e-tanks on because of its egregiously terrible final boss (i'm not even sure i beat it without dying - i don't have notes saying i did, even though i feel i've done this). i consider all of the 8-bit games to be balanced around the idea that e-tanks do not exist and judge their relative difficulty by playing them this way (imo if you use e-tanks they all become easy to the point of being almost indistinguishable from each other). my evidence for this is that the first game is among the most difficult of the entire bunch, and it didn't have them. i never, ever use e-tanks when playing any of the 8-bit games.

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edit: holy fuck i swear to god i don't mean to write such big posts. i am very excitable and love to talk about mega man ;___;

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double edit: i am coming around on ninja gaiden <:I i played it a few more times for fun and did a couple more no miss clears. i don't have a no miss consistent, but it's mostly because i play recklessly and don't care if i take a couple of deaths on account of that. i would say i almost view it like a much shorter bucky o' hare in pacing - a couple of deaths don't really do much to set you back or stop you from having fun with the game, and it's way more fun to go quickly than anything else. stage 5, imo, has more segments where you need to pay serious attention than stage 6, and it's where i'm most likely to die on a run due to my playstyle.

my least favorite part of the entire game after learning it is 6-1, which i feel is enemy litter hell. some of the spawn triggers there are absolutely weird and unless you take it weirdly slow or seriously memorize a lot of spawns, i feel like it's one of the easiest spots in the entire game to get chained. taking too much damage there can seriously screw you on the rest of the stage, too, as there's not a healing potion until late 6-2. i have to play this part of the game in a really uncharacteristically slow manner if i want to not potentially screw myself over for the rest of the stage.

i still hold most of my complaints about the game (and nothing is ever going to make me get over its sometimes seriously ugly visuals), but i do feel there are indeed ways to mitigate most of them with memorization that eventually melts away the game's extremely grainy exterior into an execution-heavy, exciting game. i'm going to bump it up to a 2-star rating and change my personal mini-review.

[__SKYe]

Nice progress __SKYe

Yeha, it's going decently.
Now, I can more or less, consistently reach 6-2 (if I reach Act 6, then I always at least reach 6-2), but usually end up losing there, or on 6-3.
Act 6 is the only act, where saving health is paramount, as there are several spots which is quite likely I'll take damage, so this is pretty much the only act where I can realistically lose by health depletion.
But going on a good run while recording, is nerve wrecking. Especially when I get to 6-3.
I know I've been saying this for a few days, but hopefully the 1LC will come soon.

I'm impressed by how fast you lot jump+slash in NG. I can't imagine doing that on a NES controller, do you slide your thumb over the buttons to do it?
In my ravenous emulation feast I use a dualshock 2 and have my thumb laying across both X and square to hit both in SF 'piano' timing.
I assume that's also a common technique on here but my friends IRL don't do it.

Oh yeah, my DualShock partner.
And yes, using the thumb across the X and Square, is very helpful for jump slashing/rapid fire, and I also always use it. Though I'm not surprised many people use only the tip of one finger when playing, and switch that finger to whatever button needs pressing.
This is not exactly performance friendly, though.

you should see me play rockman x. my thumb goes completely horizontal across y, b, and a, and i'm able to roll it across a and b separately or simultaneously to hold a charge shot while dash-jumping

That sounds scary.
For me, the dash always goes to the L button (a habit picked up from MegaMan Zero).

Oh, so.. If I do this I can jump up and hit birds as they spawn instead of getting twatted by them..?

I don't know about others, but If I recall correctly, there's only one place where you need to do this, which is the eagle in the 6-2 chokepoint.
At least this is the only place that realy needs it for me, as every other instance can either be slashed mid-flight, jumped over, etc.

i just replayed ninja gaiden a couple times for fun and actually enjoyed myself hope no one sees this

Haha, Kitten, you're finally opening up to Ninja Gaiden's warm embrace.

[copy-paster]

2 > V > 4 > 1 > 8 > 6 > IV > III > 5 > 3 > I >>>>>>> &F/&B > 7 > II

Would be pleased to see your opinions about MM1 and R&F.

MM1 perhaps the most "arcade" in the series in terms of length and difficulty. Also nice to see R&F ranked low, the difficulty is broken though.

[Sumez]

flashman's stage is so based on trial and error it almost hurts.

I meant quickman, of course >_>

aesthetic nitpicking aside, the robot master levels in 3 just feel a tad bland. they're not necessarily bad, but i feel like they're of a notably worse variety than the rest of the series. i also feel as if the doc robot stages are the worst stages in an NES mega man, full stop. they are horrendously paced and extremely lazily slapped together. most of the boss refights have slightly wrong behaviors to their patterns, humongous hitboxing (lol don't try to get behind air man), and hilariously large damage values that suggest this may be the only of the NES games where the designers actually wanted you to use e-tanks as anything other than a last-resort crutch.

That's baffling for me to hear. I love all of Mega Man 3's stages, and I always felt that the doc robot stages were among the best in the series. It was a great idea to take existing stage concepts and ramp up the difficulty. In the entirety of the NES series, those are the only point where I ever feel like I'm being pressured enough that I need to be careful of everything I do. But if I use an E-tank it is absolutely only because I fucked up. The game never forces you to use them.
Considering how much you obviously like Mega Man, I'm still surprised you feel this way about 3. It's my favourite of the bunch, and one of my favourite NES titles (though it's in a #1 spot shared by around five other titles )

[Squire Grooktook]

2 > V > 4 > 1 > 8 > 6 > IV > III > 5 > 3 > I >>>>>>> &F/&B > 7 > II

Would be pleased to see your opinions about MM1 and R&F.

MM1 perhaps the most "arcade" in the series in terms of length and difficulty. Also nice to see R&F ranked low, the difficulty is broken though.

Mega Man 1 is probably the most tolerable of the franchise to me, by virtue of its lesser number of starting Robot Masters.

These days I can't really get into a straight forward 2d action game too hard if it doesn't have that arcadey sense of single-sitting performance pressure, and Mega Man's starting 8 robot masters (all at a roughly even difficulty curve) always ensures that my experience feels overlong and too slow to heat up.

Maybe if basic controls and mechanics were a little more speedy and interesting to me then the very straight forward jump-and-shoot action, or if it had ever encroaching zako waves to fend off and drive you forward (ala Contra, Daimakaimura), I'd like it more. But these days I tend to factor them in with Sonic as "consolized" hardcore-lite hop and boppers (okay that's unfair, they're at least better than Sonic).

3 is probably my second favorite due to the brutal late game shadow-men courses, but the resulting increase in length tends to drive me off from replay even more.

[kitten]

2 > V > 4 > 1 > 8 > 6 > IV > III > 5 > 3 > I >>>>>>> &F/&B > 7 > II

Would be pleased to see your opinions about MM1 and R&F.

MM1 perhaps the most "arcade" in the series in terms of length and difficulty. Also nice to see R&F ranked low, the difficulty is broken though.

i think that mm1 is very rough around the edges, but shows incredible promise, excellent pacing, consistent quality, and has some of the most tense moments in the series. the wily stages are all very focused in that game, and of a higher quality and snappier pacing than later titles. most of the mega man games tend to run out of steam near the end, and this is maybe one of the very few that keeps you on edge from start to finish. for as often as it's hailed to be overtly rough to the point of unenjoyable, it seriously nails a lot of the basics and the yellow devil fight is one of my favorite bosses in the series history. i nearly always forget his pattern and it becomes an incredibly tense match of pure reaction in jumping over the blocks. the weapon set is pretty good, too, though rolling cutter is a little too weak - it's much better balanced in the game boy game, and a serious big eye killer. some of my general complaints: the big eyes are unfair enemies, the magnet beam (platform creating item) is way too easy to abuse, damage values are occasionally just cruel (elec man's beams are hilariously strong, for example). i feel like people laughably overstate how crude this game is and i feel that it had a superb grasp of what it was doing, especially for a first entry in a series.

- - -

R&F is an outright awful game, imo. the early stages are boring and easy and the later stages are balanced around you getting some hilariously broken items from the shop, thus making them outright crazy uneven. basic level design is awful and recycles a lot of content from mm8, and there's really not much remarkable going on here. one of my favorite things to point out in how poor this game is is that there is a basic enemy - the segmented pink thing with the horn - that takes SIXTY buster shots to kill, which i believe is well more than triple of that of any enemy in a previous game. 60 shots is completely ludicrous for such a dull, roadblock of an enemy, and it's indicative of how out-of-hand a lot of the design in the rest of the game is. many enemies in the game have completely absurd HP (iirc the gutsman looking enemy takes 20 and is incredibly common), and some of the boss fights drag on incredibly long. the game peaks in awfulness during the king stages, where you have to fight one of the most grueling midbosses in mega man history. the bottom part of king's tank is a horridly long fight with an incredibly repetitive pattern, and can repeatedly do attacks that keep its weak points you've yet to damage unexposed.

if you run out of lives in that level, it's back to the beginning, and holy god do you not want to fight the two midbosses again before getting to one of the most annoying bosses in the series. i feel like this one is commonly hailed as a really neat and forgotten title, but i feel like it is mostly fans of the x/zero series who gravitate to it. i feel like this is largely because they're already predisposed to enjoying incredibly drawn out but flashy bosses and feel as if the ability to dash through a level somehow mitigates all of its other problems. something about free movement in these games seriously pulls a blind over people's eyes for other problems.

there's also a few bits of "gotcha!" design. observe the pattern of the disappearing block puzzle in this room. seems easy, right? well, when it does a second cycle, the last block doesn't appear, and you fall to your death. you watch the pattern once, commit it to memory because it's dead easy, and then go to do it on the second cycle. only, well, screw you, player, it's different, now. every other cycle doesn't spawn the final block, and the most common behavior for a player is to wait through one cycle to see how it works. as far as i know, this is the only instance of a disappearing block puzzle working like this in mega man history. also, a lot of the blocks have variable lengths they'll stick around - every other game has them appear/reappear with a satisfying sound effect to ingrain into your head exactly how to time your jumps.

the game also deals with a similar problem that 7 did, in that it plays like the other classic games, but the sprites are all bigger. this just doesn't work out very well and causes some seriously claustrophobic fights. i mean, all in all, the game feels like some sort of really weird fangame or afterthought. i hate using speedruns as a metric, but speedruns of this game are usually about 45-50 minutes long. a run of mega man 6, comparatively, which is 4 stages longer than rockman and forte, is only about 35 minutes long. yes, you can move around faster, but boy oh boy do the levels and bosses not accentuate this in any way. this isn't even going into consideration that if you game over on some of the more grueling stages, that you're in for a significantly greater amount of replaying what you've already been through than if you game over anywhere in nearly any of the previous games. it suffers from problems the x series suffers from but without many of its benefits and is just, bleugh. i really do hate it.

I meant quickman, of course >_>

i never really had that big a problem with the quick lasers. i don't have them memorized and am often able to get past them without a single death when i replay the game. if i don't, it's not because of memorization, but because i failed to react quickly. the quickest path on the screen is always obvious, and the game is generous enough to give you some time to read it before it's fully scrolled and the lasers start coming in. the only thing you need to memorize is "always go toward the center of the screen" as you're about to transition and you're fine - the only screen where that isn't the solution (i looked a video up, am not pulling this from memory) allows you to correct if you fuck it up. this is generally how to react to every single instance of pits that will appear after a screen transition in the entire series - always pull toward the center by natural as you transition, if that's not right, you're given leeway to correct it before death. the only big exception i can think of is in mega man 5, where there's a part where if you exit to the right side of the screen as you transition downward instead of the left, you unavoidably die (5 has problems). i believe that moment is right here. i don't think you can hold inward (toward the center) to avoid cutting the corner, there, it just kills you.

bucky o hare has a bit very much like quick lasers that follows no real intuition and is total indefensible bullshit, however. i am not usually one to defend this kind of design, but i seriously think the quick lasers are fair.

[FinalBaton]

Yeha, it's going decently.
Now, I can more or less, consistently reach 6-2 (if I reach Act 6, then I always at least reach 6-2), but usually end up losing there, or on 6-3.
Act 6 is the only act, where saving health is paramount, as there are several spots which is quite likely I'll take damage, so this is pretty much the only act where I can realistically lose by health depletion.

Can you pinpoint the spots that give you the hardest time in 6-2 and 6-3? (with time codes from your 1cc vids) Maybe I can help you pick safer courses in those spots.

But going on a good run while recording, is nerve wrecking.

I hear ya!




As for the Mega Man discussion :
My faves are 2 and 3 I think. I have a hard time picking one over the other. 2 has a better presentation, but 3 is still really badass.
Haven't played 3 since I was a kid though, so I have to rely on memories here

[__SKYe]

Can you pinpoint the spots that give you the hardest time in 6-2 and 6-3? (with time codes from your 1cc vids) Maybe I can help you pick safer courses in those spots.

Thanks, I really appreciate it, but I already have a route I take that more or less works.
In 6-1, I rever lose a life, and on a average run, I can go through it without taking damage. The damage I sometimes take, is due to a projectile thrower that is close to the end. There's not really much I can do, but most of the time, this section is cool.
In 6-2, the spot where I sometimes die (maybe 1/3 times), is in the eagle chokepoint (I think you all know the place), because I have to slash it during the jump. Now, this part is usually not to bad, and it goes well, but when recording, it's always somewhat more error prone. Other than that, there's not much else in 6-2 (nothing sderious, at least).
On 6-3, there's no particularly special 1-hit KO (like falling into a pit), but it's where I usually run out of health. This is where all the little damage accumulated throughout the entire 6th Act comes into play, and most of the time, leads me into losing a life.
The problem, is that a single mistake (like failing to slash an enemy, incorrect positioning, etc) can lead to a good chunk of HP lost (because more often than not, after messing up, I usually end up taking more than one hit). The nerves from recording a good run, make this even worse.

But again, I have the route, and now it's more or less a matter of going through it until it goes well. I've reached the bosses before, and so I can certainly expect to do it again.

But going on a good run while recording, is nerve wrecking.

I hear ya!

Oh yeah, I'll usually start like "meh... It's just another run", but right about when I reach Act 5, and then after reaching Act 6, I can no longer deny the nervousness.

[FinalBaton]

In 6-2 on the passageway you don't have to kill that eagle
just duck on the ledge, let him pass you then jump on the next platform and then do a neutral jump over both the soldier and the eagle (the eagle will end up off screen and never to be seen again)



Much safer. 100% safe in fact! And very gracious

[__SKYe]

In 6-2 on the passageway you don't have to kill that eagle
just duck on the ledge, let him pass you then jump on the next platform and then do a neutral jump over both the soldier and the eagle (the eagle will end up off screen and never to be seen again)

That is damn cool.
I wil definitely do it from now on. Thanks.

[kitten]

just finished sparkster (sfc) on hard mode. holy shit, what an otherwise relatively enjoyable (but unbalanced) game ruined by some horrendously unpleasant boss fights. there's one fight, in particular, that is so bad that i resorted to looking up a gdq run for advice on how to beat it. the advice? basically, don't get unlucky. seriously, the gdq runner dies on the boss, and there appears to be no real reliable way to beat it. you kind of just pray for it to not attack you. on hard mode, i expended all 5 continues fighting this bastard, and then had to resort to a password to restart the stage again. not only is the fight terrible, but the shmup stage leading up to it ain't so hot and quickly begins to feel like a huge waste of your time. i am sincerely agog at how bad it is.

there's a fight in the next stage against a halfway boss that is particularly bad, too, and the final boss can throw attack patterns at you that end up being undodgeable if he does them in a particular (and totally random) order. the true final boss is also a tremendous pain in the ass that spends long portions of the fight baiting you to hit him and then having you get hit by (also somewhat random) bullshit while you try to do so. eugh. i really like rocket knight adventures a ton, and this was roughly as disappointing as i'd been led to believe. there's a lot of really fun presentation in the rest of the game, bar some spotty level design and somewhat unreadable boss fights, that would make this an otherwise quite good game if they just spruced a few things up. i'm really sad that the guy who directed axelay did this, because that is far and away one of my favorite shooters and i see this as nowhere near its quality

i feel strongly reminded of the goemon sfc games while playing this! the "wow, this presentation is amazing! but as a game, this is kind of shit!" kind of way that the sfc loves to specialize in doing.

On 6-3, there's no particularly special 1-hit KO (like falling into a pit), but it's where I usually run out of health. This is where all the little damage accumulated throughout the entire 6th Act comes into play, and most of the time, leads me into losing a life.
The problem, is that a single mistake (like failing to slash an enemy, incorrect positioning, etc) can lead to a good chunk of HP lost (because more often than not, after messing up, I usually end up taking more than one hit). The nerves from recording a good run, make this even worse.

how do you deal with the chakram tosser without a subweapon? that's got to be a tremendous pain in the ass.

[__SKYe]

how do you deal with the chakram tosser without a subweapon? that's got to be a tremendous pain in the ass.

I'm not sure which enemy is the Chakram Tosser, but I'll assume it's the boomerang throwing guy.

I deal with them like this:





In other words, I never fight any of them throghout the game, I just move along.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah I never really figured out how to kill those effectively without sub weapons. Not really worth it given the pace of the game, by the time your close enough you can usually just bypass them instead of delivering the second hit.

[kitten]

how do you deal with the chakram tosser without a subweapon? that's got to be a tremendous pain in the ass.

I'm not sure which enemy is the Chakram Tosser, but I'll assume it's the boomerang throwing guy.

I deal with them like this:

[snip]

In other words, I never fight any of them throghout the game, I just move along.

i think he's throwing a chakram, not a boomerang - very similar thing, though, lotsa games classify both as boomerang weapons.

that's pretty slick! that gif of the first one is a good way to avoid him, i always whirlwind slash right on top of his stupid head and then get smacked by the guy behind, haha

also, holy shit, you're not just going no subweapon but no candle? :O jesus i would at least grab that time stopper from that area

[FinalBaton]

The guy on your first gif I also evade. It's actually fun to run in and jump over his projectile and then him, in the same jump!

[kitten]

i always just grab the time stopper from the candle and he never so much as gets the chance to spawn. i honestly forgot that he's even there <_<;

edit: whoops you said first gif and i was thinking of the second

[__SKYe]

that's pretty slick! that gif of the first one is a good way to avoid him, i always whirlwind slash right on top of his stupid head and then get smacked by the guy behind, haha

Yeah, all of these guys, except this last one (if you don't pick up the time stopper) can be avoided in a similar.
I find that it is best not to mess with them, and just move along.

also, holy shit, you're not just going no subweapon but no candle? :O jesus i would at least grab that time stopper from that area

Yeah, no sub-weapons, no items and no jump+slash thing (though this last isn't too important).
It's fun though. It is a completely different way to play the game.

[Sumez]

Aye, Sparkster on SFC is an amazing game, but god damn you gotta pretend that that stupid rock'em sock'em robot fight doesn't exist. I have no idea what thel hell went on there.

[__SKYe]

Fellow members of the Ninja Ryukenden squad, let me tell you, when someone asks you what true despair is, show them this:



Nothing breaks a man's heart so badly as reaching the Jashin on 1 life, and losing when he's down to 1HP.

All jokes aside though, I've managed to (almost) reduce the damage taken in Act 6 to pretty much the projectile throwers (as they behave randomly, and can (and will) occasionally hit you with something) and sometimes, the flying ninjas. These last aren't too bad though.
FinalBaton's strategy for 6-2 helped a lot to reduce deaths at that spot, and also reduce damage that I sometimes took there, even if I didn't lose a life.
I'm also able to go through the last screen of 6-3 (the room before the bosses)without taking any damage, and can pretty much go through the entire 6-3, again, taking damage only from the random projectile throwers.

It's a bloody shame I didn't get the 1LC, but things are looking up.

[Squire Grooktook]

Ouch. Do you use the rapid slash trick there by any chance? It helps for some extra dps.

[__SKYe]

Finally got the bloody 1LC. You can get the movie here, if anyone's interested. I will eventually upload it to Youtube, but the conversion+uploading will take a while.

Anyway, the 1LC came on the 2nd try after that one, so I'm pleased.
Now I can finally put NG to rest for awhile.

Ouch. Do you use the rapid slash trick there by any chance? It helps for some extra dps.

Nah, I purposely go without it.

EDIT: Updated links.

[FinalBaton]

Congrats dude

[__SKYe]

Congrats dude

Thanks man, your tactic for the 6-2 bird really helped to iron out that spot, and to ease the fear of losing a life there.

Anyway, made a few mistakes during the run, but overall, I'm happy with it.

[BIL]

Good going Skye! We're gonna need a new category for your run, that's some heroic stuff. Will add it to the OP when uploaded.

[Vanguard]

Finally got the bloody 1LC. You can get the movie here, if anyone's interested. I will eventually upload it to Youtube, but the conversion+uploading will take a while.

Anyway, the 1LC came on the 2nd try after that one, so I'm pleased.
Now I can finally put NG to rest for awhile.

Congratulations! Looking forward to the video upload!

[__SKYe]

Good going Skye! We're gonna need a new category for your run, that's some heroic stuff. Will add it to the OP when uploaded.

Congratulations! Looking forward to the video upload!

Haha, thank you both. It's an honour to be a part of the Ninja Ryukenden Task Force.

Anyway, the video's up.
This time managed to get the 480p, but the quality is still crappy. I went with 640x480 instead of the 1280x720, because the 720p takes a long time to convert in my PC. Next time, I'll experiment a little more with the filters/converter to try to get a better result.

[Vanguard]

Stellar work!

Favorite parts are 6-1 and the end of 6-3. Both areas I tend to just tank my way through, and both are executed flawlessly in your video. The end of 6-3 is especially thrilling since you only had 3 hit points left. I was surprised to see the way you escaped the hang glider ninjas in 6-2 as well. Enduring their shurikens like that is gutsy when you've got such a long way to go without healing.

[kitten]

good work, skye. i don't think i'd ever do a run like this - training myself not to hit every candle on the way would be like some sort of mental torture even though i'm very light on the subweapon usage during my play that sounds like a nightmare. some commentary, with timestamps -

- very surprised you don't do that thing speedrunners do, the little forward jumping slash that saves a bit of time. you know, where you jump and slash at the same time, so you can keep forward momentum? my usual routine on start-up is to do that to most enemies in the first stage. i often bang into the first guy and have to correct myself but get it straight for most of the rest of the game. i'm curious if you don't do that because it trains you to do it in later stages, where it would send you into a wall?

4:20 - i have once done this exact same thing, even down to running into him twice.

6:51 - surprised to see you stop to try and smack that eagle. if you jump over him, you can scroll one of the two off the screen to the left, and if you pause going forward for just a moment, the other will fly himself off the right side. it looks slick. you skip the health potion right after that - jesus, do you skip all of them?? O_O;;

- do you not do the rapid slash thing for personal reasons or trouble doing the button input? (edit: whoops you clarified already)

9:26 - holy shit i've never had that dude chase me up there, that would have given me a good spook

10:24 - slick damage boost much approved

10:30 - i always do this, too! just seems way easier, that part is hella annoying

- very good play all throughout stage 5, honestly! surprised to not see you slow down at any point, you've definitely got this part of the game ingrained

- great job at the 6-1 approach. this is my weakest part of the entire game, honestly. i have an extremely difficult time remembering spawn points when there aren't any good visual landmarks, and that long, horizontal stretch really kills me. i play like a baby, here. i similarly struggle a bit at the 5-3 jetpack ninjas because of how ambiguous their spawns are. i know it's as simple as moving forward a bit before killing them, but if i forget they're coming, i don't get to kill the first one, wait the stars out, maybe another spawns... shit gets hairy, sometimes.

13:29 - crouch wiggle of victory! hell yeah, that part is some bullshit i was wondering what the flying fuck you were doing until i remembered this was a subweapon-less run.

14:57 - since playing again due to this thread, i don't think i've gotten past this bit without whirlwind slash. something about the way ryu's hitbox works when you're descending onto a ledge and doing a slash throws me the fuck off. one of the reasons i like 3 best is because its power-up mitigates that particular lack of range

15:18 - excellent recovery from a nosedive, here! i imagine your asshole was puckered tight enough to a pull a muscle. i love you how you just walk into an enemy right after this like a doof, as if you're still dealing with the shell shock before snapping back into concentration

15:40 - pausing for a second to do a hail mary, i presume? holy shit that is scary i had no idea you could just run under the guys right before this, i'm always baited by the time stop in the candle

- you also completely favor jacquio's left side! i'm curious how common a behavior this is. i never grow the spine to attack his right. minus the lack of rapid-slashing, that goes almost the exact same as one of my fights with him.

anyway, yeah, good job!

[__SKYe]

Stellar work!

good work, skye.

Thanks, it finally happened.

i don't think i'd ever do a run like this - training myself not to hit every candle on the way would be like some sort of mental torture even though i'm very light on the subweapon usage during my play that sounds like a nightmare. some commentary, with timestamps -

Not taking candles isn't too hard, really. You just take the shortest path to the level's exit, and only slash the candles that you can't avoid (like slashing them at the same time as an enemy).

- very surprised you don't do that thing speedrunners do, the little forward jumping slash that saves a bit of time. you know, where you jump and slash at the same time, so you can keep forward momentum? my usual routine on start-up is to do that to most enemies in the first stage. i often bang into the first guy and have to correct myself but get it straight for most of the rest of the game. i'm curious if you don't do that because it trains you to do it in later stages, where it would send you into a wall?

Ah, I know what you mean, but at this point, I just want to be consistent on slashing everything without taking risks where it isn't necessary.
I guess the fact that I seem to always run to the exit, makes it seem like I care for the time, I really don't. I just figured that it is easier to avoid anything that isn't in my path, and just keep going.

4:20 - i have once done this exact same thing, even down to running into him twice.

Yeah, this happens every so often, when I slash a little to early/late. At this point I even considered restarting, but then I though "what the hell..", and just kept going.
After playing some 30+ runs to try to get the 1LC, I stopped trying to iron out these little kinks.

6:51 - surprised to see you stop to try and smack that eagle. if you jump over him, you can scroll one of the two off the screen to the left, and if you pause going forward for just a moment, the other will fly himself off the right side. it looks slick. you skip the health potion right after that - jesus, do you skip all of them?? O_O;;

Yeah, it was pretty bad. Usually, I'd be able to go through it without taking damage, but I never really stopped to try to get a strategy to it, because it didn't really matter. I can afford to take a few hits there, although it looks ugly as hell.
And yes, I skip every candle/item on the way, except the few I accidentally slash when killing an enemy, but they're usually sub-weapon ammo, etc.

- do you not do the rapid slash thing for personal reasons or trouble doing the button input? (edit: whoops you clarified already)

I purposely go without the Down+Slash, because I started without doing so (didn't even remember it), and when I did remember about it, I was very late in the game, and it felt like a shame to start using it then.

9:26 - holy shit i've never had that dude chase me up there, that would have given me a good spook

Ah, that may look scary, but he'll never reach the last platform, so as long as you get on it, you're safe (at least it never happened to me).
Also, sometimes, he won't even respawn all. I guess it depends on how far back you move to slash the green thrower guy.

10:24 - slick damage boost much approved

Haha, thanks.

10:30 - i always do this, too! just seems way easier, that part is hella annoying

Yeah, I figured going down at that spot, is too risky, so I always go up, do a little wall jump, take the hit from the eagle, and jump over the wall.
I did mess up after that, because the jump over, wasn't as long as it should, so the bat spawned at a lower height, and I got hit. It's not too problematic, but it normally doesn't happen.

- very good play all throughout stage 5, honestly! surprised to not see you slow down at any point, you've definitely got this part of the game ingrained

Pretty much yeah, the only places I stop, are where I know an enemy is gonna spawn at the edge, etc. other than that, I'm always running.

- great job at the 6-1 approach. this is my weakest part of the entire game, honestly. i have an extremely difficult time remembering spawn points when there aren't any good visual landmarks, and that long, horizontal stretch really kills me. i play like a baby, here.

Yeah, thankfully, I've gotten 6-1 down to near perfection, which really was necessary in this run, because any damage piled up here, would pretty much make me lose a life.
The only spot where I sometimes take damage, it's the green thrower near the end, because sometimes, he'll throw a thing as I'm approaching him, and the enemy that spawns from behind gets me.
Other than that, one thing I've managed to get right a couple days ago, was jumping over the first hunchback enemy that appears (near the start of the level) by jumping where the candle is.
That way, I can avoid him, then slash the MG guy, and jump over the bat.
The rest of it is not too hard, though for the last stretch, I find it best not to stop moving. All those eagles (doing 3HP of damage per hit) will give you a hard time otherwise.

i similarly struggle a bit at the 5-3 jetpack ninjas because of how ambiguous their spawns are. i know it's as simple as moving forward a bit before killing them, but if i forget they're coming, i don't get to kill the first one, wait the stars out, maybe another spawns... shit gets hairy, sometimes.

Those jetpack ninjas can indeed be a pain in the ass. In 5-2, the thing to be more careful about, is in trying to beat the thrower fast, before he moves back too much, and spawns a ninja.
As for the ninjas, it's like you say, you just need to remember they're there, and walk forward a bit, and slash them.

The end of 6-3 is especially thrilling since you only had 3 hit points left. I was surprised to see the way you escaped the hang glider ninjas in 6-2 as well. Enduring their shurikens like that is gutsy when you've got such a long way to go without healing.

13:29 - crouch wiggle of victory! hell yeah, that part is some bullshit i was wondering what the flying fuck you were doing until i remembered this was a subweapon-less run.

Haha, I always do the crouch-wiggle, wherever I have to wait for something.
Nearly screw up on those ninjas, and took a few not intended hits. Also, I should note that, the last 2 hits were I fall to the wall and let the shurikens hit me, are calculated, and not mistakes.
I found from experimenting a lot, that trying to take those two jetpack ninjas out in the air, is a good way to fall into the pit, so I always take the 2 hits (which only do 1HP each), and move on.
The previous hits were a mess up, though.

14:57 - since playing again due to this thread, i don't think i've gotten past this bit without whirlwind slash. something about the way ryu's hitbox works when you're descending onto a ledge and doing a slash throws me the fuck off. one of the reasons i like 3 best is because its power-up mitigates that particular lack of range

If you're talking about how, after going past the chakram tosser, I jump to the platform, and immediately slash the white guy, and wait for the eagle, then it's easier than it looks.
I don't slash the guy while in the air. You have plenty of time to jump, land on the edge of the platform (which you always do, because that's how far the jump can go), and then slash the guy.
The eagle will miss you too, on the first pass, so you can easily wait for it to come back, and slash it (or jump over it).
In general, I'd say (and that's what I always do), if you have the time to slash an enemy after landing on the ground, then do so, because it is much more reliable than air-slashing.
I do this a lot throughout this (and every) run. I've even gone back to a few spots, and changed the way I killed enemies in a few spots, to be like this, so that the runs were more reliable.

15:18 - excellent recovery from a nosedive, here! i imagine your asshole was puckered tight enough to a pull a muscle. i love you how you just walk into an enemy right after this like a doof, as if you're still dealing with the shell shock before snapping back into concentration

Haha, that's one way to put it.
Yeah, I screwed up there, as I timed the jump incorrectly. But really, against that guy, the best you can do after taking a hit, it to ignore it and try to go to the wall.
The reason I walk towards him, after taking the first hit, is because I'm trying to make space to jump to the left wall, so I can move on.
You really don't wanna mess up with this guy, especially on a tight space like this.

15:40 - pausing for a second to do a hail mary, i presume? holy shit that is scary i had no idea you could just run under the guys right before this, i'm always baited by the time stop in the candle

Haha, no, that stop on the right wall, is to make the upper hunchback jump above you. If you wall jump all the way to the left wall while he is on the top platform, he won't jump over, and will drop onto you instead.

- you also completely favor jacquio's left side! i'm curious how common a behavior this is. i never grow the spine to attack his right. minus the lack of rapid-slashing, that goes almost the exact same as one of my fights with him.

Oh yeah, Ive always done it his way, and I think it's pretty much because there's no middle right platform to stand on.

EDIT: Fixed typos.

[kitten]

Ah, I know what you mean, but at this point, I just want to be consistent on slashing everything without taking risks where it isn't necessary.
I guess the fact that I seem to always run to the exit, makes it seem like I care for the time, I really don't. I just figured that it is easier to avoid anything that isn't in my path, and just keep going.

your play is still pretty exciting for minimal risk-taking. i feel like watching most people do no miss clears of action games can get dull, because it's obvious how rehearsed and routine it's become (you see people take lots of pauses before hard parts, abuse boring ways of killing things, take zero risks, etc.), but this was a pretty fun to watch. there weren't points where i was screaming in my head "oh my god this is so boring" or "hurry up" like i often tend to, watching these.

i get outright ANGRY watching people do no miss runs of mega man games especially if they're doing those "perfect" no-hit runs that the (awful) inti creates 9 and 10 popularized. they play so, so slow and it is agonizingly obvious they have everything down to this extra careful, super safe routine. not to mention they savestate before each stage to practice it for hours, so there's no marathon aspect to it. it's so, so boring. i don't understand how anyone can play a game like that, much less be proud of showing it off. i love no-missing games, but if you start playing a game in a boring way just to get that no miss, why even do it? games are meant to be fun. your play was fun to watch, and i assume fun for you to perform - which is how it should be! i think it's a genuine accomplishment to keep a game from getting sterile on a run this restrictive.

if it WAS getting boring/sterile for you after so many attempts, you at least didn't make it obvious in how you were playing

Yeah, this happens every so often, when I slash a little to early/late. At this point I even considered restarting, but then I though "what the hell..", and just kept going.
After playing some 30+ runs to try to get the 1LC, I stopped trying to iron out these little kinks.

when i get my capture gear, i think i'll try recording a no miss so i can stop being just a lousy spectator ;P

on some of my runs where i actually achieve i a challenge i set out for (1cc/nomiss/etc), i often do hilariously badly or play very recklessly at some early part.

I don't slash the guy while in the air. You have plenty of time to jump, land on the edge of the platform (which you always do, because that's how far the jump can go), and then slash the guy.
The eagle will miss you too, on the first pass, so you can easily wait for it to come back, and slash it (or jump over it).

sounds a lot breezier than i assumed, then. i was always slashing a little prematurely before landing - the sword's hitbox always seem to miss whenever i try to do that.

anyway, i appreciate your responses to my commentary

- - - - - - - - - - -

i was clicking around on my backloggery page's "fortune cookie" to get recommendations on what to play today. it allows you to choose certain modifiers from your collection, and then picks a random game given the restriction for you to play. by default, it only chooses games you haven't finished. i tried a dozen times without getting anything i was feeling, so i switched it over to pulling from all my games, rather than just unfinished stuff. after a couple attempts, i got rocket knight adventures. after my disappointing first time playing sparkster, i figured this was a good game to revisit and see if i still loved it so.

and boy, i sure did! i managed to get a 1cc on my very first attempt back with it, too, albeit by the skin of my teeth. i was playing on the US version's default "easy" difficulty (which is equivalent to the JP and EU's "hard"). i then went and bumped it up to normal ("very hard" in EU and Japan) and did yet another 1cc. this difficulty NOTICEABLY increases enemy damage values and makes for a much tougher game. i'm tempted to do a no miss of either easy or normal, but might save that for another day down the road. i strongly doubt i'll ever get around to hard (which is JP/EU's "crazy hard"), due to the fact it is completely goddamn ridiculous with its one-hit kills. that feels like something the programmers added in because they were getting hyper competent in play-testing. a liiiiittle too much for someone not wanting to become intimate with the game to the point of near-absurdity.

rocket knight adventures may have some cutesy graphics and over-the-top presentation, but when you get past that, there is a damned well designed action game under that hood, too. anything that seems too goofy or tough to read at first always ends up being manageable when you've gotten its pattern down, and nothing feels unfair or sacrificed in favor of the presentation (as many of these types of games seem to do). i still feel confident asserting that this is one of the premiere titles on the megadrive/genesis, and one of my favorite action games of all-time. very glad to still feel confident in my old four star rating of it - it had been long due for a reevaluation and it passed with flying colors