Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

I like a small degree of rough n' tumble / bopped on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper. Woof woof muhfucka! Took a hit getting myself onto this ledge but now YOU DEAD (・｀W´・)

btw, it really amazes me how different our playstyles are. You are the "good old ACTION HERO" to my "ninja assassin"

i was kind of surprised by how slow/deliberate some of what you were doing was. even up to my no miss i could not pull the frenetic idiot out of me and still did a lot of foolhardy blunders in the name of "i get bored and lapse concentration if i don't."

NG1's never going to punish you for observing a situation. It'll typically garotte you for turning around and running away, but that's another matter entirely.

except when i get to jaquio, where i play like a frightened baby and take my hit or two where i can get it. then again, sometimes i smack into his side trying to get a double or triple slash in abusing the down+slash bug, so maybe i'm exaggerating. i do this thing where i favor only attacking as he's on the right side of the screen and could go a lot faster, but i feel like i'm (literally) playing with fire when i try to do anything but that.

Jaquio is far more complicated than he looks - landing every possible hit without missing a beat, like speedrunners are forced to, is quite the balls-to-wall endeavour. The trick is to stay in rhythm and never chase a missed opportunity - you'll be a sitting duck for his tracking ability, and promptly beaten down. At that point the only thing to do is admit defeat and hit the floor until the flames die down!

[FinalBaton]

kitten, concentration is indeed THE thing I need to be the best at, to do my 1LCs of NG. Every enemy in the game is like a little trap that I know how to diffuse, I know the game inside and out and pretty much just proceed to pick it apart on my way to victory demands a ton of heavy concentration though and I definitely experience some mental fatigue near the end.

Here are a couple examples








(that fourth one might not look as impressive but if you don't handle it like I did there, it becomes very chaotic and you'll most likely take 2 hits from that passage)

And let's not forget this baby :

[Shoryukev]

I haven't played NG1 in a bit either. Seeing this resurgence of videos makes me want to attempt a 1cc myself, I need a cheap capture card!!

[BIL]

^ FCEUX works fine in a pinch, I find. Record movie, then play it back while writing an AVI. I wish I could capture from hardware too... one day, haha. I keep telling myself that video hardware will always be around, but the CIB R@REZ won't. 3: This way lies madness.

(that third one might not look as impressive but if you don't handle it like I did there, it becomes very chaotic and you'll most likely take 2 hits from that passage)

One of my very favourite bits as far as flatland battling goes. Everything's poised just right - rushing melee attackers from both sides, a lumbering machinegunner who'll ruin your day if you don't make time to strike him down, and a lobber sowing chaos from overhead. I always slow down, so my blood-soaked blade can say hello to everybody. :3



There are dozens of similar vignettes throughout NG1, and it's in this particular vein of methodical, technique-intensive but subtly flexible combat that it dominates most other action/platformers. Nothing in CV1 has this pace or agility, and nothing after (including its own sequels) has its swordsmanly purity.

NGII comes enticingly close, in spite of the subweapon blunderbuss, but they fucked the sword up! The closest I've played may indeed be Ninja Crusaders, but that game completely misses out on viscerality - even before getting to the 1HKO system, which I find sounds intense on paper, but actually makes things feel a bit frigid. Two hits would let the player risk their neck, and suffer for it, without slamming on the brakes at the tiniest error. It's in a weird place between AC Shinobi precision and NG1 roughhousing.

[FinalBaton]

I haven't played NG1 in a bit either. Seeing this resurgence of videos makes me want to attempt a 1cc myself, I need a cheap capture card!!

kev if you have some money to invest that way, I definitely recommend the USB3HDCAP. It's the same as the well regarded Micomsoft XCapture-1, minus the RGB passthrough, and is $100 less. It's currently $175 (new)on amazon. Well worthy purchase for hardware longplay-ers like ourselves.

For S-video setups, the Startech SVID2USB2 seems to be well regarded. I personally haven't tried it but I've seen good captures(for composite) done with it and that's the one S-Vid capture card I would give a shot at if I was in need of one. Sells for $40 new.

There's also the option of DVRs. Some of them in particular from Pioneer, have pretty good deinterlacing + upscaling chips apparently, which should give you decent looking vids. They take composite or S-video input and will output an upscaled, digitised file. Some have a USB jck so you can transfer your files direct to your PC.
You should ask Fudoh about it, he's the one who told me about these Pioneer models. (he might not be able to refer you a particular model though, since euro and NA models have completely different names. but he can at least tell you what quality you can expect from them, as well as recommending you other capture cards.)

[FinalBaton]

Love how you rush in and still manage to destroy all in that gif, BIL That was nuts!

There are dozens of similar vignettes throughout NG1, and it's in this particular vein of methodical, technique-intensive but subtly flexible combat that it dominates most other action/platformers.

This. X1000
This man gets it

[Shoryukev]

kev if you have some money to invest that way, I definitely recommend the USB3HDCAP. It's the same as the well regarded Micomsoft XCapture-1, minus the RGB passthrough, and is $100 less. It's currently $175 (new)on amazon. Well worthy purchase for hardware longplay-ers like ourselves.

For S-video setups, the Startech SVID2USB2 seems to be well regarded. I personally haven't tried it but I've seen good captures(for composite) done with it and that's the one S-Vid capture card I would give a shot at if I was in need of one. Sells for $40 new.

There's also the option of DVRs. Some of them in particular from Pioneer, have pretty good deinterlacing + upscaling chips apparently, which should give you decent looking vids. They take composite or S-video input and will output an upscaled, digitised file. Some have a USB jck so you can transfer your files direct to your PC.
You should ask Fudoh about it, he's the one who told me about these Pioneer models. (he might not be able to refer you a particular model though, since euro and NA models have completely different names. but he can at least tell you what quality you can expect from them, as well as recommending you other capture cards.)

I'll check those out, thanks for the info! The SVID2USB2 might be a good choice for me. It would be fairly easy to feed it s-video while I play on a CRT using composite or RGB. I'm not sure how much I would use it so it would be a cheap way to get my feet wet. At some point I need a SCART switcher, if I ever get one I'll look for dual outputs to make feeding a capture card RGB easier. I keep telling myself I'll buy a switcher and then I just spend my funds on games every time. LOL

The DVR is a cool option too, I have a friend that has one and I've thought about recording some playthroughs to VHS and give him a tape to see how that transfers. Probably pretty ghetto looking but who knows.

[FinalBaton]

Don't want to go too much in hardware, so as not to derail the thread, but I'll give you this hint kev : go with an Extron Crosspoint RGBHV switcher Those are way more flexible and way cheaper. forget the SCART swichers

[kitten]

NG1's never going to punish you for observing a situation. It'll typically garotte you for turning around and running away, but that's another matter entirely.

i'm very antsy in most games i play, it's just how my style is, typically regardless of the game. even in games where i'm doing a routine i'm usually crouching/firing to music or doing some quirk during downtime while waiting for a cycle to be favorable, etc. one of my favorites is twitching left to right (particularly in mega man, where when done properly, will not even move his sprite a pixel in either direction and look very silly), which has gotten me killed in this game. i think i've mentioned before that you would possibly be surprised how reckless i am well before ninja gaiden.

Jaquio is far more complicated than he looks - landing every possible hit without missing a beat, like speedrunners are forced to, is quite the balls-to-wall endeavour. The trick is to stay in rhythm and never chase a missed opportunity - you'll be a sitting duck for his tracking ability, and promptly beaten down. At that point the only thing to do is admit defeat and hit the floor until the flames die down!

i have him down pretty well, imo. at least as far as survival is concerned. i've done him without taking a single hit at least once. my deaths are always caused by me getting greedy for multiple hits too many times. i just never attack his right side and always retreat and spend a while waiting for a favorable cycle, and it makes me feel cowardly. it's what i usually (in my head and occasionally to my roommate) criticize others for as "playing boring" or too much into a tepid routine, and makes me uncomfortable.

gimmick is my favorite game of all time partially because of its dynamic and fast bosses and super-high levels of accommodating for spastic, silly play. there is something so, so joyful about how yumetaro's jump works. i'm sorry to frequently bring every dang game back to gimmick but man i just love that game to pieces. if i stick around on this forum i'm going to get known for doing this worse than other people do about dark souls ;[

[FinalBaton]

my favorites is twitching left to right

Good god... never, EVER do this in NG you're basically asking for e-rape!

[Blinge]

Haha aw jeez Mr. Baton, I've just started playing and I'm already developing that bad habit!
It's usually to try and dodge something by tapping left and make it all worse

The aggressive mentality is so alien to my usual approach to hard games.
So far I'm in the face-mashing stage of learning the game, just scrubbing my way through, mindlessly continuing without frustration (yet).
Also in most deaths I'm nodding feverishly like fighting game players on tourney streams when they get hit by something...
Made it to st4 boss.

[Immryr]

my progress: i generally get through the first 4 stages without losing a life. 4-2 is still a little hairy though. 5-3 is problematic.

[BIL]

Frivolous screen scrolling is a bad idea in this game, yep. Economy is the key. You can see in the last GIF I posted how just backing up a few pixels to swat that backstabbing cat also respawns the lobber - but because I'm well out of his range, and more importantly, because I've the luxury of plentiful footing and can simply move on, it's a non-issue. I could've just as easily ignored that cat and moved onto the stairs but tbh I really like swatting this game's enemies!

In places like 6-2's first floor flying ninjas, where footing is lethally scarce, I won't turn back for anything other than impending death as I methodically cut down enemies with jump attacks (= allowing me to gain ground while eliminating attackers).

Basically, particularly when footing is scarce, gain ground where you can and sacrifice it sparingly. This doesn't mean blindly rushing forward at all times (this will get you into unnecessary trouble), nor does it mean stubbornly refusing to retreat. The 5-2 jump in the below GIF illustrates both principles - if you rush to leap over that gap, the gunner is going to threaten your landing. If you're slow to take him out, he'll gain a nasty advantage. My shitty 1LC makes a total hash of things via the latter, so rather than risk an even bigger, possibly fatal clusterfuck I reset the situation and do this:



Competent play (as opposed to ultra-refined 1337 speedrun routing) isn't about relentless advance, but rather cautiously consistent advance and sparing retreat.

[Sumez]

Nice clip right there!

Spoiler

I find that this one particular trick is the key to a subweaponless Ninja Gaiden 1. <3
(well not the last part where a subweapon is used, obviously)

[BIL]

Yes. But no VIBRATOR pls! ;3

In other news - holy shit, with just one more enemy onscreen at a time, Mighty Final Fight would have me insta-hooked. I still really like it as-is; enemies are sharply aggressive, your moves are gratifyingly punishing, and the sprites are adorable. Very much not the Downtown Nekketsu-alike I was subconsciously expecting - it totally has its own style, actually reminding me more of Bonk (or even Calvin & Hobbes). I love how El Gado shiftily puts his beanie back on following a knockdown, his baldness having been exposed.

Just feels a little vacant with the two baddies onscreen limit. My favourite FC beltscroller Double Dragon II offsets it with a combination of greater workload and relentless pincer angling - the higher-risk power moves, lack of bombs and "beat 'em til they're ready to puke" grapple prerequisite make any enemy you're not currently brutalising a looming threat. FFT's enemies certainly aren't to be underestimated, but three stages in I've not had to work as hard to gain dominance. Having said this, I'm digging the use of pits to constrain movement space and boost pressure. edit: oh wao, st4 definitely picks up. Could see this being a fun no-miss run.

Quite cool. Thanks for reminding me of this Skye.

edit: oh hai Mobi-chan!

[__SKYe]

I find that this one particular trick is the key to a subweaponless Ninja Gaiden 1. <3

it might be just my own playstyle, but you don't actually need this much acrobatic skill.

Quite cool. Thanks for reminding me of this Skye.

No problem, good games are meant to be shared and enjoyed by the largest number of people possible.

I love how El Gado shiftily puts his beanie back on following a knockdown, his baldness having been exposed.

Haha, that's true. The game really nails the Chibi-style graphics/humor.
When you play a second playthrough, try to change your answers to Damnd's question, just for the fun of it too. There's a lot of these little humurous details in the game, and even the ending (especially if you play as Cody), is a funny take on the original game's ending, but having Cody behaving the opposite way.

And those lines from the bosses, like "Are you done flapping those lips of yours?" (or similar, don't quite remember the exact words) are damn funny.

Just feels a little vacant with the two baddies onscreen limit. My favourite FC beltscroller Double Dragon II offsets it with a combination of greater workload and relentless pincer angling - the higher-risk power moves, lack of bombs and "beat 'em til they're ready to puke" grapple prerequisite make any enemy you're not currently brutalising a looming threat. FFT's enemies certainly aren't to be underestimated, but four stages in I've not had to work as hard to gain dominance. Having said this, I'm digging the use of pits to constrain movement space and boost pressure.

Yeah, the biggest shame is really the 2 enemies limit, as it never gets too tough. They are even more aggressive than the original though.

edit: oh hai Mobi-chan!

Do you know what that is (item for getting perfect on the bonus rounds)?
I've been trying to figure it out, but to no avail.

Anyway, now that I made a Youtube account, I guess I'll start recording my runs, so that if I happen to get a good one (a 1CC or 1LC), I can upload them.
Also, I was going to re-upload the NG1 run with a better quality, but it takes quite a few hours to convert+upload, that I gave up. Instead, I'l upload a new one, when I get the 1LC, so please bear with that crappy run a bit longer.

EDIT: Nevermind, just Googled 'mobi-chan', and got my answer.

[BIL]

Yeah, Mobi-chan's a superdeformed version of the 1P player mech (or Mobile Suit) from Side Arms/Zettai Gattai. One of those little icons you'll see all over Capcom games, along with stuff like the Yashichi (Vulgus), Holstein (Gun.Smoke) and Dragonfly (Son Son).

edit: the full-sized Mobi's a lot more badass-looking

[FinalBaton]

Haha aw jeez Mr. Baton, I've just started playing and I'm already developing that bad habit!
It's usually to try and dodge something by tapping left and make it all worse

The aggressive mentality is so alien to my usual approach to hard games.
So far I'm in the face-mashing stage of learning the game, just scrubbing my way through, mindlessly continuing without frustration (yet).
Also in most deaths I'm nodding feverishly like fighting game players on tourney streams when they get hit by something...
Made it to st4 boss.

Neutral jumps are your friends in NG1

Something that's also useful(still in that "don't head back so as to not trigger respawns" idea) for dealing with enemies coming from behind, and SUPER fun is what I call the "dogfight summersault", AKA the "I don't have TIME for you... " jump. I use this all the damn time



Jack be nimble,
Jack be quick...


And yes, even if you're not clearing the game yet, you're still COLLECTING IMPORTANT DATA on your enemy! And as I said in my "rules of NG" post, knowing your enemy is crucial. In fact it's the most important thing in this game!

[__SKYe]

And driven by the sudden Mighty Final Fight topic, I played a credit with Cody, and got a 1CC, but this time lost only 1 life , against Abigail, in Stage 5.



This guy (and Sodom too) are hard to fight without HP (for the health draining attack), because they will constantly chase you, and sometimes they will chase you to the edge of the screen, and it's quite hard to get away without using the special.

Also missed a perfect on one of the bonus rounds.

edit: the full-sized Mobi's a lot more badass-looking

Haha, no resemblance whatsoever.
That topic looks awesome though, I'm gonna check it out.

[BIL]

MFF's versions of Sodom and Abigail are pretty cool. I like their rushing attacks - obviously not as brutal as the AC ones', but they still feel convincingly threatening, and they're fun to bait and punish with a grab. At first I thought they'd dropped Abigail's drag queen act along with his King Diamond makeup, but nope. *smooch* D:

Some nice combo mechanics here. That rushing attack Haggar gains at L4 is very cool - chaining it into a grab reminds me of Ninja from TNWA's shoulder ram.

"NAWWW HAGGAR PLS - we only joined the gang to pay for hairplugs!"

[FinalBaton]

Ah, Sodom. Everybody's favourite weeaboo! really like playing as him in the SFA games.
And now I really wanna play some MFF and FF arcade!!

[Vanguard]

Alright, the video's up.

Nicely done!

I get a real sense of relentlessness from your play. You don't back off and regroup after taking a hit. You don't give in to the desire for revenge. You just keep moving forward no matter what.

I saw in the video's comments that there was one death in the run, and got increasingly anxious as the video went on. That you made it all the way to 6-3 before dying is tragic, and that your only death was due to HP depletion is impressive. There's no question that this would've been a one life clear if you'd allowed yourself the use of items.

EDIT: Also please forgive me Vanguard, for stealing your Youtube user name suffix.
I had no idea what to call it.

I approve!

Here is my run of Ninja Gaiden

No death. No hit until stage 4-3. No firewheel used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sDYTy_mV2o

Dang, you didn't take enough damage to add up to a life until Malth.

[FinalBaton]

^^^^^^^^
BIRRU-sama's Squadron of Doom is very well trained and dangerous right now. If there was a war, we'd be smashing the enemy to pieces!

As for myself, I am confident that a NG 1-Hit Run (No firewheel) is something I'll achieve at some point!

[__SKYe]

Nicely done!

I get a real sense of relentlessness from your play. You don't back off and regroup after taking a hit. You don't give in to the desire for revenge. You just keep moving forward no matter what.

I saw in the video's comments that there was one death in the run, and got increasingly anxious as the video went on. That you made it all the way to 6-3 before dying is tragic, and that your only death was due to HP depletion is impressive. There's no question that this would've been a one life clear if you'd allowed yourself the use of items.

Thank you.
I don't think I had ever lost a life there, after sucessfuly climbing the wall after that boomerang enemy. This time, I completely missed that he hadn't scrolled offscreen, and messed up.
Though I must admit that, even if I hadn't lost the life there, it was very likely that I would lose it on the last screen of 6-3.
I have the feeling that the 1LC isn't too far off though, and even ironed out a few points that gave me trouble on that run.
With the exception of the little, silly mistakes (that I made there, but usually don't happen), I can now almost always take no damage on 6-1, and on 4-3 (that on this run, I almost died).

And to be honest, until I saw one of the replays here (I think it was Sumez'), I didn't know that the candles/birds dropped lives, health restores or time stop. I always thought there were only sub-weapons/powerups.

Anyway, I hope to have a 1LC video to post soon enough.

EDIT: Also please forgive me Vanguard, for stealing your Youtube user name suffix.
I had no idea what to call it.

I approve!

Haha, thanks.
Naming these kind of things is always a pain in the ass for me.

[FinalBaton]

really wish i had my capture set-up, already!

I'm definitely interested in seeing your runs! would love to see your playstyle

[FinalBaton]

__SKYe I just checked your run :

That was awesome man! I don't think I could ever do a non-items/non-weapons 1LC, but I believe that you can pull it off! I really do

Also watching your vid I discovered a bunch of tricks I didn't even knew were possible , haha. That was fun

[__SKYe]

__SKYe I just checked your run :

That was awesome man! I don't think I could ever do a non-items/non-weapons 1LC, but I believe that you can pull it off! I really do

Also watching your vid I discovered a bunch of tricks I didn't even knew were possible , haha. That was fun

Thank you, though I believe anyone can do it with enough practice.
Perhaps the most important thing needed to pull it off, is to be able to consistently slash enemies that are on platform edges, immediately before you land.
This is because, for the most part, missing one of these slashes will send you into a pit, and consequently, make you lose a life.

Other than that, one thing that perhaps a no items run has easier, is that I don't have to stop to pickup items, and perhaps, I avoid a lot of trouble by doing so. After all, this is the kind of game where parading around, can quickly get you killed.

Perhaps it is irrelevant to say this, at this point, but there are several hits I take during the run (and any run I make), that are calculated, and not mistakes.
They help tremendously, and I've found, by experience, that I end up losing more HP (or a life) by trying to not take hits, than by taking specific, calculated hits, and moving on.

I've ironed out a few spots, where I previously had trouble one (like on 4-3 and 6-1), and can pretty much consistently get by them without taking damage (or negligent damage).
The harder part, is that one single missed slash, can (and usually does) cost an entire run. But that's just the way it is.

By the way, I said before, but I also watched your run, and reaching 4-3 without taking a single hit, is damn awesome.

[FinalBaton]

Thanks

I was a bit bummed out by that (taking a hit on 4-3) actually, since I usually make it to 5-1, and sometimes a bit farther, before taking one
But oh well... stuff like that happens when you have the added stress of recording your run. I swear whenever I'm recording I play worse, lol

[Sumez]

Damn, I might just wanna start taking NG1 back up just to nail that 1lc run. So much to relearn though ;_;

@FinalBaton:
That guy on 2-2, I tend to resist the temptation to slash him from behind, just to see him getting stuck on the wall just ahead, desperately trying to jump over and over to see if it gets him anywhere.

[Sumez]

Had one more game of Gremlins 2 yesterday (I'm going real slow with this one, as playing it is strangely exhausting to me), and I'm not sure if I want to take it any further. Starting out as an easy game crippled by an annoying attack, by stage 4 it's changed into a difficult game with an awesome attack. Unfortunately, I feel it's difficult for the wrong reasons. Some of the jumps on this stage are just extremely awkward, and by 4-2 the ground is basically covered by conveyor belts, which might be one of my least favourite video game elements ever, I'm just not having fun with it at this point.
And is there any trick for those green gremlins that spin around throwing hats(?) all over the place. Like every other enemy, their pattern is completely random, and the projectiles are super fast in every direction making it impossible for me to dodge.

I find this game is actually a good example of the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to randomness in games, compared to the example we briefly touched on from Daimakaimura, and Squire's explanation of good random bullets vs. bad random bullets. Every enemy spawn is completely static, but their movement is absurdly erratic, with several enemies just changing to a random direction every few frames, and a huge part of fighting them comes down to either luck or patience.

I guess my immediate positive reaction to this game isn't as positive anymore. But I think I'll give it one more chance. I just found out you get to keep your weapon upgrade if you buy those 1up dolls, so there's a bit of leeway there I guess.