Need advice on R&B jailbars with Model 1 VA2 Sega Genesis

[infidelity]

I have lifted pin 6 on the CX Sony chip, and grounded it to pin 1. I have also lifted pin 50 from the VDP chip. I still have faint jailbars.

My question is, from the vdp chip, can I lift the pins for R, G, B, solder wires to them, and solder the other ends of the wires directly to the CX Sony chip? Will that eliminates the jailbars? I'm using RGB Scart, and don't care if I lose all other forms of video output.

Thank you.

[RGB0b]

The subcarrier line is also a big source of interference. Also, some revisions of the motherboard are built so badly, there's almost nothing you can do, other then use an external chip altogether (or I guess maybe remove the CXA and mount it externally?). Voultar's Mega Video Board is perfect for people who's boards don't have that much interference, but db Electronic's Genesis RGB bypass board is perfect for all the rest:

http://voultar.com/index.php?route=prod ... duct_id=55

http://db-electronics.ca/

Unfortunately, neither of those are available at the moment. Coming soon though!

[infidelity]

What and where is the subcarrier line, and can I just remove it? All I care about output wise is rgb. Also would my question earlier do the trick for removing jailbars? I'd like to exhaust all possible DIY mods, before purchasing anything in helping the fix.

[bobrocks95]

Is your cable using CSync or composite video? It's definitely not the case with all Genesis's, but my jailbars went away as soon as I got a CSync cable.

[infidelity]

My rgb scart is marked as "csync"

So what and where is the subcarrier, and how do I remove it? Thanks everyone!

[FinalBaton]

FWIW,Ihave a model 1 VA2 Genesis and use retro_console_accessories' Genesis csync cable and I get no jailbars.

[infidelity]

That's awesome, wish I was in the same boat. I have to really hide them with advanced settings in my Sony bravia lcd, but I shouldn't have to take that route.

[infidelity]

So would my original question eliminate the bars, if I lift the vdp pins that send R,G,B, and solder wires to them, then solder the other ends to the lifted R,G,B, pins on the CXA Sony chip? Again, this machine is only outputting RGB, I do not care if I eliminate all other video outputs.

[FinalBaton]

sorry infidelity, just wanted to add the link to the cable I was refereing to : http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sega-Genesis-1-M ... 259eabdca5

[infidelity]

This is my cable.
http://i.imgur.com/XQWOiSG.jpg

These are shots of jailbars
http://i.imgur.com/nhQWgi3.webp
http://m.imgur.com/TRvI1V3?r
http://i.imgur.com/hZbmENR.jpg

Can someone please answer my question, if what I want to do will eliminate the jailbars?

[RGB0b]

What's the rest of your setup like? Genesis via RGB Scart...then what does that plug into?

[FinalBaton]

Do you have other systems plugged through that SCART to HDMI converter infidelity? And do those other systems exhibit jailbars as well?

[infidelity]

This is what my cable plugs into
http://i.imgur.com/XQWOiSG.jpg

I'm using into my hdtv.

My Genesis is a model 1 VA2. Pin 6 of my CXA Sony chip is lifted, and grounded to Pin 1 of the CXA Sony chip. Pin 50 of the VDP is lifted. The c28 smd chip on the bottom of my motherboard is removed and that section is bridged.

That is it.

[FinalBaton]

infd,

the reason I asked if you had other consoles plugged into that SCART to HDMI converter, is to help figure out if the onsole is the problem, or if it's instead the cable or the converter.

That's why it's important, if you want us to help you, that you answer this question

[infidelity]

But I did answer it. The Genesis rgb scart cable is plugged into my HD video converter as shown in the link, it is the only console plugged in.

[FinalBaton]

Ha! So we're not sure if the console is the problem then

[infidelity]

It is the console that's the issue, it is producing the infamous jailbars. It's not my tv. No other systems that I use on my hdtv have problems, not my NES HDMI, not my ULTRA HDMI N64.

Please, can someone just answer my question. Can I solder shielded wires from the RGB origins of the VDP chip, to the RGB inputs directly on the CXA Sony chip, and will that stop the jailbars?

[Shoryukev]

It is the console that's the issue, it is producing the infamous jailbars. It's not my tv. No other systems that I use on my hdtv have problems, not my NES HDMI, not my ULTRA HDMI N64.

Please, can someone just answer my question. Can I solder shielded wires from the RGB origins of the VDP chip, to the RGB inputs directly on the CXA Sony chip, and will that stop the jailbars?

No other systems connected to your TV are connected to that cheap HDMI converter either, I would point blame at that device. You've already done the internal modifications to your system that have been known to get rid of jailbars, the only other thing I've read about that fixes it is replacing all the capacitors in the console. I have a VA3 system and get no jailbars through RGB, but then again my system has been re-capped and I'm using CRTs.

The best advice I have is to get an OSSC or framemeister, if you're looking for perfection you're never going to get it out of that HDMI converter. It's not fair to compare expensive internal upscaling HDMI console mods to a $30 SCART to HDMI box.

[infidelity]

I'm not willing to drop hundreds of dollars to hide the bars. But I appreciate your thorough response.

You mention replacing all the capacitors. Do you know where I should go to look at schematics and which capacitors I need to order? The quality of my rgb picture is amazing, I'm very happy and content, it's clear and sharp and colors are amazing, it's just those bars I want gone.

Thanks for replying, and hope you can answer my latest question.

[RGB0b]

That box is your problem. Not only is it complete garbage, but it processes 240p as 480i, so it will always look terrible, no matter what you do. You need to have realistic expectations with it.

Getting an OSSC or Framemeister that each have a built-in LPF will be a massive improvement over this. If you don't want to spend that kind of money, get a cheap consumer-grade CRT. The results will be light years better.

...all of that being said, the Genesis can still have noisy output. If you're looking for perfection, you still might need to do an RGB bypass to get rid of the jailbars...but they'll be MUCH less noticeable on a CRT.

With all due respect, you can't get what you want without spending money or a lot of effort. It's better to just accept that and follow the solution that's easiest for you.

Edit: Actually, if your TV supports 240p via component (and processes it as 240p, not 480i), getting a SCART to component converter might be a great solution for you. You can check if your TV is compatible by using HDRetrovision's test and a composite video cable:
Is your TV 240p compatible?: http://www.hdretrovision.com/240p/#test
Does it process the image as 240p or 480i (scroll down a bit): http://www.hdretrovision.com/240p/#problem

[FinalBaton]

No other systems connected to your TV are connected to that cheap HDMI converter either, I would point blame at that device.

This.

This upscaler is garbage, don't use that (I know because I have it also). My HDTV does a better job at upscaling than that box. Maybe your TV does too.
Like RetroRGB said, test your TV for 240p compatibility. If it's good at handling 240p, then get SCART to component transcoder and plug into the TV directly. That won't cost you too much ($75 US).

If you want to spend even less, but still want to have a good picture, then you'll have to play on a CRT

[bobrocks95]

Okay, yes, his converter isn't great, but there should still be a way to eliminate the jailbars on a Genesis. Isn't there an RGB bypass board?

[infidelity]

I'm very content with the converter I have. All I wanted was an inexpensive way to get a clear picture, and for me this definitely does that on my Sony bravia. I already ordered all the replacement capacitors for my VA2 board.

Hoping to get the rgb bypass board somehow. Thanks for all your info everyone.

[hawaplop]

I'm pretty sure that the rgb bypass board that used to be available will not be produced anymore due to Voultar's Mod Shop's and db electronics' new boards that are in the works.

So with that said, nearly all of us would benefit most by being patient and exercising impulse control before destroying our consoles.

[RGB0b]

I think that no matter what, you'd benefit from doing the bypass, so if nothing else, it's worth your time. Everyone's currently out of stock of the boards, but some are coming soon.

[infidelity]

Any possible eta? I've already got my replacement capacitors for my VA 2. I hope to obtain the rgb bypass the day they are back on sale.

[hawaplop]

Any possible eta? I've already got my replacement capacitors for my VA 2. I hope to obtain the rgb bypass the day they are back on sale.

I asked Rene a couple of days ago about his amp. His response leads me to believe that it will be at least a few months, if not more. This is just my perception based off of the response I received, and is in no way any sort of quote from the man himself.

I'm not sure about Voultar's.

[infidelity]

Is there a detailed schematic on building your own bypass board?

[hawaplop]

Is there a detailed schematic on building your own bypass board?

Are you a computer/electrical engineer?

If you aren't, dont even bother attempting to make your own board. The people who build them are extremely intelligent, experienced and passionate about this industry. They also have to deal with relying on manufacturers in China to make their boards correctly. I have heard some state that roughly 20% of the boards they receive are defective in some way. You would also need crazy soldering skills (these boards are very, very small) to put all of the pieces on the board correctly, not to mention the ability to troubleshoot if a finished board does not work correctly when tested.

Piece of advice, do not waste your time and money trying to do this yourself. It will wind up costing you a large sum of money and you will likely have nothing to show for it. Just be patient, enjoy the spring/summer, and before you know it, they'll become available.

[bobrocks95]

Uh, I don't think a THS amp is that complex to make. You could make it on a breadboard with through-hole components, the Genesis has a good amount of space in it. You certainly don't have to be an electrical engineer to build a little video amp, but you do need soldering experience, and the install won't look all that clean.

I still think waiting for a nice pre-made amp is a better option, but it doesn't take anywhere near the skill hawaplop is trying to say it does.