Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

Aww sheeit. After tonight's gaming, I have to say: kitten pls play The Ninja Warriors Again right nao. Go straight to Hard with either Ninja or Kunoichi. Seriously, it's volatile. Not many games make me wish for a fucking gore mod just so I can punish meddlers more severely. I'm talkin liftin' a fucker clear off the floor with my metal thumbs jammed to the knuckles in their eye sockets (HEAD ASPLODE SFX cuts off SCREAM), seizing a throat and dashing a head into scenery Splatterhouse style (body slumps to floor, flickers to signify HE DEAD), even punting a dazed midget into a tyre fire (howie_scream.wav)

I shy away from XTREEM frame-by-frame optimisation too (as one of my great shumpsfarm heroes Rob once said, competence is what I go for), but you could analyse this game forever and still get knocked on your ass within seconds. And at the same time, it's always your fault. The expertly restrained generosity ensures there'll always be something you could've drawn on, to hold your ground if not outright floor them instead. Next run, then! ITS BEAUTIFUL.

Also, much Alien Soldier. Another desert island pick for sure. I liken the happy medium between formless chaos and stale routine to musical performance... the song can remain the broadly the same, while leaving the player sufficient leeway to grind the strings into the fretboard, or lean hard on the pedal, or profane the lyrics to mirthful effect! My favourite games will tend to demand this element (see TNWA and Daimakaimura), but I don't mind finding my own entertainment. I could replay Alien Soldier stage01 forever. No for real - in the nightmare otherworld where Treasure blew all their cash on hookers and coke and it never got beyond a twenty second demo, I'd still boot the fucker up regularly. Fortunately IRL there's a half-hour or so of this stuff, unf unf unf.

"wahhh, its so hard / wahh, its only half an hour" What in the fu-
DO THE MATH YOU LOUSY FUCKIN SCRUB (・｀W´・)
30mins in YOU CANT PLAY FOR SHIT
30hrs in YOU KIND OF DON'T SUCK
HOPEFULLY ANYWAY （＾ω´ ）



AWW LAWD YEAH, TASTE VENGEANCE POTATOMANS

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EMERGENCY EMERGENCY
DANGER WILL ROBINSON
THE BPM IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE

Contra Spirits' opener is another good one. Fuckin red runners ruining my groove! Or rather TRYING TO, LMAO

Player01 DR.BIRUFORD (RIP)

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Player02 GROOKY-TAN

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Player03 BAIORENCE_JYAKKU

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There is a limit ofc. Alien 3MD is a sawdust sammich no matter how seasoned. Hard Corps, Shin Contra, these are immensely superior - but not quite up to the best stuff. NAKAZATO-SAN pls. 3: Director's cuts for Hard/Shin/Neo when? I'll consult 4 free ;3

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I'm gonna keep calling Yumetaro "Mr. Gimmick".

WTF I HATE YOU SUMEZ 凸(｀ω´メ)凸

[FinalBaton]

Alien Soldier seems so fucking br00tal. Not in the negative way, but in the sheer amount of destruction/esplosions per minute fun-filled way.

I gotta play that ASAP

[BIL]

It's so beautiful. And brutal. It's brutiful. ;-;7 The sense of feedback when ripping through big baddies is sublime. And the tragic fate of VIBLACK at the jaws of BACK STRINGER is seriously one of the most viscerally satisfying things I've seen from any action game. omnomnomnom

Eat this you lousy fuckin crab!

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I hate ants too!

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There's a distinct learning curve, both in the controls and the game flow (you need to gradually plot out your weapon upgrades, while learning how to incorporate the phoenix force and bullet cancelling) - but it's so goddamn worth it. Spectacular performance piece, astonishingly presented. The better you play, the bigger the guns and the faster the pace - perfect feedback loop.

It's actually not as hard as the mainstream tends to make it seem, either - the performance ceiling is extremely high, as is the distance between 1337 superplayers and joe average, but it's not too hard to secure basic survival and build from there. Epsilon's a sturdy avatar, and you won't suffer for taking the odd hit here and there. Making ammo count is the really important thing. Don't be psyched out by default being named "SUPERHARD." ;3

[kitten]

Aww sheeit. After tonight's gaming, I have to say: kitten pls play The Ninja Warriors Again right nao. Go straight to Hard with either Ninja or Kunoichi.

BIL's real-time reaction:

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an opportunity for 8% back in ebay bucks made this essentially a $69 purchase, and how could i resist

Also, much Alien Soldier. Another desert island pick for sure.

i have not played alien soldier in years, and only ever on the virtual console! i tried going back to it a year or two ago and giving superhard a shot, but was immediately put off by the ammo limitations and active switching of the weapons feeling quite awkward. perhaps if i go back again, i should warm up with supereasy.

i remember when first beating supereasy that i had finally come around on alien soldier as a good game - a rare thing for me to do with a treasure game, as i'm not a particular fan of them and often find them to be bombast over refinement. that feels almost lost in the wind with how long ago it was, now, though! the game is up for a full re-evaluation whenever i go back to it, for certain. going to have to get the fuck over myself and deal with the limiting weapon system and see how it treats me. might be a while, though, that cart is out of my price range and not a high priority, and i'd love to save it as a treat for whenever i could afford it, however many years off that may be.

[BIL]

Excellent choice.

Alien Soldier's weapon menu, that's definitely another early sticking point. At first I felt it was thoughtlessly difficult... gradually though, I realised the inconvenience was entirely deliberate, as much as Castlevania's jump arc. You're vulnerable while switching weapons, just like you're vulnerable coming out of a dash - finding (or creating) a window to quickly switch armament mid-battle is part and parcel of the game's dueling ethos. If you're skilled and confident, those windows will get easier and easier to find, but switching with a boss attack or zako swarm about to connect will never be a good idea.

Personally, as with Ex-Ranza requiring you to manually retrieve heavy weapons from your bike/jet, I grew to like the technique and sense of physicality involved. Brings to mind Badass 80s Anime where a heavily-armed character will unload a minigun into a target, then *CHUNK* drop it and pull a bazooka off their back, fire and discard that too in favour of a sidearm, etc. The involvement is an interesting change from the more common instantaneous switch of stuff like Contra III/HC.

There's also a legitimate technical aspect to AS's weapon menu - weapons will begin recharging once stowed, and will only stop once you reselect them. Scrolling past them, or checking up on their ammo status, won't interrupt the charge. So you quickly learn to never pull a gun unless you're going to use it, and immediately stow it once you're done. I found myself readying a weapon as a boss entered, leaving it to the last millisecond before hitting [fire] and letting rip. Note that you can select the weapon with fire and begin blasting instantly - very handy when time is critical (hit the button twice for an emergency Counterforce).

Definitely an acquired taste, but I wouldn't want to see it gone like I once did.

[Obscura]

i remember when first beating supereasy that i had finally come around on alien soldier as a good game - a rare thing for me to do with a treasure game, as i'm not a particular fan of them and often find them to be bombast over refinement.

"Bombast over refinement" is an excellent description of Alien Soldier. Lots of sound and fury, some immensely ugly Genesis sprite rotation, and a dull overly-patternized play experience.

YAWN. If I want MAXIMUM VIOLENCE out of a sidescroller, I'll go play Metal Slug.

[BIL]

Obscura you can't play Alien Soldier for shit, we've been over this before. 3: You compared it to Punch Out once, ffs. If Punch Out played like AS I could teleport behind Great Tiger and jam my dick through the back of his skull. Learn to play, bitch!

[Obscura]

Like I said, sound and fury. You can KO a ton of dudes in Punch Out in one shot if you know what you're doing and react to the right cue. Alien Soldier just puts more explosions on-screen.

[kitten]

Alien Soldier's weapon menu, that's definitely another early sticking point. At first I thought it was thoughtlessly difficult... gradually though, I realised the inconvenience was entirely deliberate, as much as Castlevania's jump arc. You're vulnerable while switching weapons, just like you're vulnerable coming out of a dash - finding (or creating) a window to quickly switch armament mid-battle is part and parcel of the game's dueling ethos. If you're skilled and confident, those windows will get easier and easier to find, but switching with a boss attack or zako swarm about to connect will never be a good idea.

i wish that i could say i'd be able to comment on fresh observations, soon, but it's a game i would like to save for later. not going to attempt to communicate with a ten years younger version of myself and ask them what they thought after beating it, other than "damn, that last boss fucking ruled."

Personally, as with Ex-Ranza requiring you to physically retrieve heavy weapons from your bike/jet, I grew to like the technique and sense of physicality involved. Brings to mind Badass 80s Anime where a heavily-armed character will unload a minigun into a target, then *CHUNK* drop it and pull a bazooka off their back, fire and discard that too in favour of a sidearm, etc. The involvement is an interesting change from the more common instantaneous switch of stuff like Contra III/HC.

i JUST realized that ex-ranza is ranger x, despite it having been mentioned a couple times in the thread, already. never bothered learning the original name for that one, for some reason! will correct immediately. that is absolutely one of my favorite md games, even one of my favorite games of all time. absolutely gorgeous, elegant controls, brilliant and unique action. my only big complaint with the game is the abruptly slow-paced and slightly dull 2nd level - a real downer right after you've gotten hyped up from the first stage. it does help set the pace for the game as more methodical - which it certainly is - but the novelty of it does not exceed its pace disruption or length. not a bad stage by any measure, but just a tad too tedious.

it often gets compared to another favorite of mine, assault suits valken, but i genuinely believe it manages to exceed it in quality as a stellar action game (and with my particular fondness for valken, this is no understatement). there's almost nothing else truly like it, and i found it immensely satisfying to give a run through it on its highest difficulty, appropriately titled "rough," which i managed to finish without a single death. i well and truly love that game. a rare case where i actually prefer the NA boxart, too. i feel as if ex-ranza's pacing makes its weapon switching feel a tad more appropriate. it's just so very well themed around its premise and does so much to bring it life. when people complain about controls in that game, i refuse to believe they've played it for more than fifteen minutes - they are absolutely perfect for what they're attempting.

[BIL]

Like I said, sound and fury. You can KO a ton of dudes in Punch Out in one shot if you know what you're doing and react to the right cue. Alien Soldier just puts more explosions on-screen.

You can't one-shot any boss in Alien Soldier, you great big scrub. 3: And you most definitely don't "react to the right cue," or wait around for them to finish taunting, or cycling through attacks, or memorising the precise frame to punch them in the cock, or whatever else inane, tedious, unintuitive fuckery Punch-Out was making me do before I realised it played absolutely nothing like Alien Soldier and cancelled my ebay order. It's a good job the seller was someone I'm good buddies with or I'd have been out many quid! (I bought SFC Parodius Da instead, much better idea)

You just rip their face off with a pointblank Phoenix as soon as "fight" leaves the top of the screen. Sometimes they'll linger and you'll need to shoot them in the head repeatedly. To do this, though, you need lots of HP and ammo, which you never have, because you suck. 3;

It's not EZ like Metal Slug, which rules, and plays absolutely nothing like AS! That's a bad comparison too! cmon bro you were hyping the fuck out of Ninja Spirit before you even made it past stage 3, it's not good practice. 3:<

i JUST realized that ex-ranza is ranger x, despite it having been mentioned a couple times in the thread, already. never bothered learning the original name for that one, for some reason! will correct immediately. that is absolutely one of my favorite md games, even one of my favorite games of all time. absolutely gorgeous, elegant controls, brilliant and unique action. my only big complaint with the game is the abruptly slow-paced and slightly dull 2nd level - a real downer right after you've gotten hyped up from the first stage.

Definitely something I always mention when recommending the game - I myself was put off by that stage for literally years, wondering what all the fuss was about. Ranza almost single-handedly got me back into the MD, so needless to say, when I revisited it and finally saw the third stage... I understood what the fuss was about. :O Wildly ambitious, lovingly-crafted mecha sidescroller like nothing else anywhere ever.

Have you played Toshio Toyota's earlier Granada btw? Despite the totally different context (topdown seek n' destroy), it's got a very similar degree of inventiveness and TLC.

it often gets compared to another favorite of mine, assault suits valken, but i genuinely believe it manages to exceed it in quality as a stellar action game (and with my particular fondness for valken, this is no understatement).

I adore Valken too (it's largely the game that got me into the SFC, along with Wild Guns and TNWA), but yeah - objectively speaking, Ranza's sheer ambition and variety far outstrip it. Valken's strength is its simple, perfectly-judged action and immense aesthetic prowess. That's no backhanded compliment - much like Nemesis II GB and Strider, it's unbeatable arcade cinema. I had to laugh (baaahahaha!) at HG101 calling it "incredibly difficult" or somesuch... Valken's a pussycat provided you LEARN 2 BLOCK. :O And get a good weapon upgrade path. ;3

Have you played Gigantic Army (PC), btw? It can't approach Valken's charm, but it genuinely plays even better imo. Some nice refinements in there, like a guard meter and automelee. Even has a decent scoring system, a rarity among sidescrollers! Check out Kyper's beautiful 18mil Insane run. Highly recommended - should be nice and cheap on Steam too. I'd totally nab it myself if I hadn't gotten the earlier disc release way back.

[Obscura]

If you can't one-shot any boss in Alien Soldier, exactly what is happening at 0:25 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Huyliuxe8 ?

Gigantic Army is the definition of mediocre. The sort of thing you clear once in a few hours and never touch again.

[Squire Grooktook]

Gunhound Ex is the definition of mediocre. The sort of thing you clear once in a few hours and never touch again.

Fixed.

We've all actually cleared Gigantic Army a number of time and revisited it many times, sometimes for score runs, which are quite satisfying.

[Obscura]

Gunhound EX has its flaws (the "stand still/slowly march forward and guard things" shit can get interminable at times), but its weapon system is far more fun than GA's will ever be, and its boss fights are far better. GA has better level design in the early game, but they stacked their best content at the front (obviously polishing for the demo...), and the second half of the game doesn't really rate.

[BIL]

FUCK! :O I didn't realise the topic had updated so now my post shows edits! I hate when that happens.

If you can't one-shot any boss in Alien Soldier, exactly what is happening at 0:25 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Huyliuxe8 ?

JETSRIPPER is tragically composed of many segments. When you hit a multipart boss with Phoenix, each part takes damage, so he and certain others like him get jackhammer-skullfucked. However it's not a "one shot" you daft scrub, it's a dozen or so shots adding up to a fatal KO. Also, he has like no HP so it's not like he was gonna do well anyway. He's the first boss ffs. 3;

ALSO YOU STUPID FUCK, THE POINT IS YOU CAN JUST FUCK HIM TO DEATH IN A SPLIT-SECOND. YOU DON'T WAIT AROUND WHILE HE TAUNTS, OR CYCLES PATTERNS, OR WHATEVER THE FUCK. :O

I'm kidding, you're not stupid. Just prone to angrily judging stuff you can't play for shit. 3:

Gigantic Army is the definition of mediocre. The sort of thing you clear once in a few hours and never touch again.

IF YOU SUCK

^^^ adding this, suddenly all your angryposts make sense. :3

[Squire Grooktook]

Nah, the second half of GA (assuming you're playing Insane like you should) is where the fun begins. Stage 4 is a blistering battlefield featuring some of the best enemy design/placement in the genre, stage 5's bosses are incredible, and stage 6's combination of full-fire enemies and devious platforming are the pinnacle.

I usually take a bathroom break and grab a beverage after completing stage 3, since the true GA starts here.

Gunhound only excels in terms of (excellent) feedback on ranged weaponry (those rockets are to die for) and it's more valken-esque cinematic presentation (though your mileage may vary on if this is a good thing or not, given how much more "anime" and somewhat intrusive it ends up being). It's level design however is of the Thunderforce III "functional tech-demo" variety (ironic, considering it shares a composer with that franchise!) with no real tactical or twitch depth, it's bosses are average compared to GA's unpredictable and spacing intensive duels, and it's filled with far more (and longer!) obnoxious gimmicks that we are certainly not playing for (like inertia laden shmup sections, painful auto-scrolling escort missions, etc.) then GA's incredibly brief (and eventful) autoscroller.

TBH Gunhound isn't a bad game either, just vastly inferior. I still enjoy it. Anything to make Kar-Obscura angry.

[kitten]

i struggle to think of a proper comparison to alien soldier, really. i don't think that there is one. the extremely large sprites, weapon-switching, and moveset all give it a very unique flavor.

Definitely something I always mention when recommending the game - I myself was put off by that stage for literally years, wondering what all the fuss was about. Ranza is literally the game that got me back into the MD, so needless to say, when I revisited it and saw the third stage... I saw what the fuss was about. :O

it almost put me off, but having already been a big fan of valken and remembering my initially rough love for it, i persisted. even found out about the solar power all on my own. shucks, i'm smart. :B

sincerely, though, a lot of people don't even grasp that before turning it off.

I adore Valken too (it's largely the game that got me into the SFC, along with Wild Guns and TNWA), but yeah - objectively speaking, Ranza's sheer ambition and variety far outstrip it. Valken's strength is its simple, perfectly-judged action and immense aesthetic prowess. That's no backhanded compliment - much like Nemesis II GB and Strider, it's unbeatable arcade cinema. I had to laugh (baaahahaha!) at HG101 calling it "incredibly difficult" or somesuch... Valken's a pussycat provided you LEARN 2 BLOCK. :O And get a good weapon upgrade path. ;3

i'm a big ol' wild guns, fan, too! huge favorite - even played this one a ton as a kid. i've 1cc'd hard mode a few times, but i never quite got that difficulty down to a no miss. real close, though, iirc. shockingly haven't played the new one, yet, despite owning a copy and the means to play it. kinda been planning on going back to the cart version, first, but have been waiting for the mood to strike. tbqh, pulling me off my pc engine once tnwa gets here isn't going to be easy and i'm accruing quite the backlog. also, thank heaven i got a cart for wild guns before it went up. i think i paid $26 and still have the receipt sent with the ebay purchase sitting around here, somewhere - this was a good price, even at the time. that thing is now priced completely absurdly. nearly all ps1 and older games prices have gone through absurd inflation the last 5 or so years, but snes feels like it got hit the hardest. some sfc imports are still cheap, thankfully. been considering selling my demon's crest and getting a demon's blazon -i'd probably make a sweet $100 out of that without a hitch, even after ebay fees. of course, getting me to sell something i didn't somehow accrue a duplicate of is like pulling teeth.

i agree that valken is pretty easy to get down, as well. even if you're having a tough time with it, there are beginners learning options like that secret fire weapon you can get from stage one that will help teach you the ropes. its controls are not quite as elegant as ex-ranza's, but they're pretty damn good and have a real sense of weight to them. always been meaning to pick up an sfc cart for this one and absentmindedly forgetting to - my plays are always disappointingly void of miniature sprite suicide and anime portraits. managing your upgrades, particularly getting and upgrading laser ASAP, is definitely a big key to success, too. i like that element of the game - full-game-length powering up offers a sense of progression and conflict escalation without something as tedious as having to search all over for secrets. ex-ranza is an even easier and more fluid game that gets even harsher criticism of its difficulty, imo.

Have you played Gigantic Army (PC), btw? It can't approach Valken's charm, but it genuinely plays even better imo. Some nice refinements in there, like a guard meter and automelee. Highly recommended - should be nice and cheap on Steam too.

i haven't, but this feels like something i have once looked up. maybe i will... look it up again... i guess......... sometime...............

this reminds me that i bought a physical copy of and still haven't played assault suit leynos (the remake of assault suitS leynos! they neutered the s!)'m always so hesitant to play new modern games, with all their damn trophies and whatnot. i get so easily distracted by that shit and just want to set my own goals. this last year or two, especially, that shit has really gotten to me much easier.

[BIL]

If you can't one-shot any boss in Alien Soldier, exactly what is happening at 0:25 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Huyliuxe8 ?

JETSRIPPER is tragically composed of many segments. When you hit a multipart boss with Phoenix, each part takes damage, so he and certain others like him get jackhammer-skullfucked. However it's not a "one shot" you daft scrub, it's a dozen or so shots adding up to a fatal KO. Also, he has like no HP so it's not like he was gonna do well anyway. He's the first boss ffs. 3;

Oh, also, now that I look more carefully, there's another detail: when a Phoenix hits the edge of the screen, it'll stay there until it burns out. Universal principle, bust it out whenever a boss is near the screen edge! On my last session SUNSET STING did his very rare move to the edge of the screen and BLAM! I roasted the fucker! He's known by speedrunners to very rarely do this.

Also it's more accurate to say that multipart bosses take damage on each part the Phoenix is hitting. It's not an automatic effect. Sorry, it's very late here.

So JETSRIPPER got DOUBLE JACKHAMMER SKULLFUCKED there. Feel free to ask about anything else you need to know!

i struggle to think of a proper comparison to alien soldier, really. i don't think that there is one. the extremely large sprites, weapon-switching, and moveset all give it a very unique flavor.

2010 Street Fighter (FC) is broadly similar. Boss rush safari with a considerable learning curve on its controls, and a critically important i-frame dodge. It's not as perfectly-executed (in some regards the controls are just punitive, though always workable), but the spirit is the same. I love both!

[Obscura]

I'm kidding, you're not stupid. Just prone to angrily judging stuff you can't play for shit. 3:

You say that like it's a bad thing.

A proper action game shouldn't have "git gud" as a requirement to being entertaining. In an arcade, if you can't entertain a player on their first couple of credits, you're fucked. Daimakaimura would have never made money if a first-time player who game over'd on stage 1 didn't have a good time during their short run. Proper "demolish the course" design plays out like The Super Shinobi -- when you're a n00b, the game's fundamentals are strong enough that halting Castlevania-esque cautious play is still pretty fun. As you improve, you play the later levels cautiously, and rip and tear through more and more of the early game.

Why bother playing a game that demands I put in work before it's entertaining when I could be playing thousands of games that entertain me while I'm putting in the work?

[kitten]

Have you played Toshio Toyota's earlier Granada btw? Despite the totally different context (topdown seek n' destroy), it's got a very similar degree of inventiveness and TLC.

hated it. can't remember exactly why. too long, power-ups act weird, everything seems like it takes forever to kill, something, something. stream-of-consciousness dull frustration replacing accurate memory. could have been improperly grasping it, but had distinct feelings of unshakable lack of entertainment, regardless. felt like if i ever got proficient at it that i wouldn't start liking it. i tend to find anything by wolf-team a novelty, at best.

2010 Street Fighter (FC) is broadly similar. Boss rush safari with a considerable learning curve on its controls, and a critically important i-frame dodge. It's not as perfectly-executed (in some regards the controls are just punitive, though always workable), but the spirit is the same. I love both!

REALLY did not like street fighter 2010 (though i'll admit it's possibly the closest comparison to alien soldier), and i did bother finishing this one, unlike granada (where i ran out of continues like a tremendous chump, pissed my pants, and then swore to never play a shooting game again). the moveset felt good, but it also felt like it was designed for a completely different game because it was rarely ever optimized to nail guys in what felt like a satisfying way. i really hated the extremely frequent levels where there would be nuisance enemies tracking you, always staying just underneath your god damned awkward projectile's range. that felt like a damning certainty that they were not keenly grasping how to properly design this game, and the few moments of exciting triumph were kind of happy accidents.

damn, bil, i can't believe you wrote this 2004 gamefaqs review - https://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/563462-str ... iews/74088

[Squire Grooktook]

Why bother playing a game that demands I put in work before it's entertaining when I could be playing thousands of games that entertain me while I'm putting in the work?

Some people have the ability to recognize the fun in stuff, even as they fail.

Other people will angrily shit on something and blame the game when the fault lies with them, and not the game.

Sadly you've proven yourself to more often then not be among the latter.

Best to just accept it and acknowledge that, should you come across the fabled Bikini Karate Fighters, you particularly are indeed the kind of person who will need over 30 minutes to know if it's garbage or not.

[kitten]

Why bother playing a game that demands I put in work before it's entertaining when I could be playing thousands of games that entertain me while I'm putting in the work?

why learn to cook when there is perfectly good food in this dumpster i found outside my apartment?

i'm being flippant and teasing, sorry. i feel like there are a lot of examples of games that are slow burns that end up being worth it, and i'm pretty sure bil is trying to make a case for exactly the question you're asking.

[BIL]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

A proper action game shouldn't have "git gud" as a requirement to being entertaining. In an arcade, if you can't entertain a player on their first couple of credits, you're fucked. Daimakaimura would have never made money if a first-time player who game over'd on stage 1 didn't have a good time during their short run.

Daimakaimura is extremely good at what it does, yes, but it's not comparable to AS in either context or content. One's a blood-simple action/platformer designed for instant coinop play, the other's a deliberately esoteric concept piece for a player with unlimited time. You might also say Dai's bosses don't age as well as AS's.

Proper "demolish the course" design plays out like The Super Shinobi -- when you're a n00b, the game's fundamentals are strong enough that halting Castlevania-esque cautious play is still pretty fun. As you improve, you play the later levels cautiously, and rip and tear through more and more of the early game.

I'm genuinely surprised by this - I always assumed you'd dislike if not hate The Super Shinobi, for the reasons I've seen others do: it's 100% static, derives its first-run difficulty from awkward enemy placement, and can't be played with sophistication without extensive practice beforehand. I consider it and Alien Soldier very much of the same school, to the point I find myself wanting to play one after practicing the other.

Personally I'd prefer this sort of "assault course" game be finicky in its learning phases, rather than pit-dunkingly lethal, but to me they're on the same continuum either way. The endgame is the real attraction.

Why bother playing a game that demands I put in work before it's entertaining when I could be playing thousands of games that entertain me while I'm putting in the work?

*splutter* *fume* Why you goalpost-movin muhfucka... 3:

Nah, I'm the first to call stuff like Super Shinobi and Alien Soldier acquired tastes. What AS is absolutely not is shallow, or dumb - it's clearly been rigorously designed for longterm mastery.

[Squire Grooktook]

i feel like there are a lot of examples of games that are slow burns that end up being worth it, and i'm pretty sure bil is trying to make a case for exactly the question you're asking.

There's also the matter that it varies from person to person.

I don't consider the learning process involved in a few well regarded stg's scoring mechanisms to be fun at all. It would never the less be arrogant and unemphatic of me to declare the games to be kusoge (and go around spreading that misinformation along with factually incorrect statements about their optimal learning process and playstyle, mechanics, depth, etc. *cough* to sentimental fans as well potentially unassuming newcomers) just because the process, actions, and playstyle it involves doesn't align with my tastes.

Instead I do it as an obvious, tongue in cheek joke. Fuck Cave.

[BIL]

Have you played Toshio Toyota's earlier Granada btw? Despite the totally different context (topdown seek n' destroy), it's got a very similar degree of inventiveness and TLC.

hated it. can't remember exactly why. too long, power-ups act weird, everything seems like it takes forever to kill, something, something. stream-of-consciousness dull frustration replacing accurate memory. could have been improperly grasping it, but had distinct feelings of unshakable lack of entertainment, regardless. felt like if i ever got proficient at it that i wouldn't start liking it. i tend to find anything by wolf-team a novelty, at best.

It's definitely got a bit of the characteristic Wolfteam jank, and resemblance to Ranza is prototypical at best, but I'd honestly say it's worth a second look sometime. Some considerable depth in there, players like Enhasa and Kino around these parts can really tear it up. It's dirt cheap in all formats too IIRC. ;3

USE TEH BOOST TO GET THROUGH

Spoiler

REALLY did not like street fighter 2010 (though i'll admit it's possibly the closest comparison to alien soldier), and i did bother finishing this one, unlike granada (where i ran out of continues like a tremendous chump, pissed my pants, and then swore to never play a shooting game again). the moveset felt good, but it also felt like it was designed for a completely different game because it was rarely ever optimized to nail guys in what felt like a satisfying way. i really hated the extremely frequent levels where there would be nuisance enemies tracking you, always staying just underneath your god damned awkward projectile's range. that felt like a damning certainty that they were not keenly grasping how to properly design this game, and the few moments of exciting triumph were kind of happy accidents.

Definitely a marmite game. FWIW I've seen it grow on several chaps here who initially didn't dig it, but the punishingly stiff controls are fated to divide the audience. The zako swatting is my favourite part of the game, for example.

Spoiler

^ my 1337 methodical Option play ;3

damn, bil, i can't believe you wrote this 2004 gamefaqs review - https://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/563462-str ... iews/74088

Yo, the only thing I've ever put on GameFAQs is my acclaimed Little Nemo FAQ! :O

[kitten]

It's definitely got a bit of the characteristic Wolfteam jank, and resemblance to Ranza is prototypical at best, but I'd honestly say it's worth a second look sometime. Some considerable depth in there, players like Enhasa and Kino around these parts can really tear it up. It's dirt cheap in all formats too IIRC. ;3

i've got a copy, but so little motivation to boot it up, again. i'll file away in the back of the brain zone to maybe give it another shot, some day.

Definitely a marmite game. FWIW I've seen it grow on several chaps here who initially didn't dig it, but the punishingly stiff controls are fated to divide the audience. The zako swatting is my favourite part of the game, for example.

multiple sources say this, but i'm still on the side that it's just unremarkable. even your gif just reminds me of how obnoxious those little hovering boogers are. sometimes you have opportunities to gracefully take them out like that, sometimes you fumble around for precious seconds for a set-up... but it never really looked or felt any good or at all satisfying, to me. even if i eventually come out of an alien soldier replay thinking it sucks, at least it sure as shit looks like something is happening almost constantly. there's this almost undeniable awkwardness to sf2010's presentation, comparatively.


also, can you please work:

YAHOO!
YABBA DABBA
DOOM!
WHATTA RUSH!

into your expansive bil vocabulary. for me.

There's also the matter that it varies from person to person.

yeah, i mean sure, but this sounds like backpedaling from your previous point of being able to decide if it's any good from your (what i gather, admittedly) limited experience.

[Squire Grooktook]

There's also the matter that it varies from person to person.

yeah, i mean sure, but this sounds like backpedaling from your previous point of being able to decide if it's any good from your (what i gather, admittedly) limited experience.

Ah, I think you may have switched our usernames by accident ^_^

[kitten]

There's also the matter that it varies from person to person.

yeah, i mean sure, but this sounds like backpedaling from your previous point of being able to decide if it's any good from your (what i gather, admittedly) limited experience.

Ah, I think you may have switched our usernames by accident ^_^

uh, heheh, uh... whoops!!!!

dangit, you both have avatars that either don't exist or don't load for me, don't you know i never look at usernames????

also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUY-QXQLo2Q

i had to spend like 10 minutes after clicking your signature figuring out what this music was. it's the boss music from x5. i did it. congratulations to me.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeh sorry I've never been without an avatar for the several years I've been here but the newest one I tried was a gif that broke, gonna fix that once I'm no longer feeling lazy lol.

Also damn do I love X5's boss theme though. Intense and perturbing.

[BIL]

^ I was wondering about your av! I'm on a potato wired to a toaster so I'm never sure if these things are just me.

punting a dazed midget into a tyre fire (howie_scream.wav)

Fuck, I shoulda linked this earlier. 3; Posting standards slip when I'm up too late. Fixed!

[kitten]

Yeh sorry I've never been without an avatar for the several years I've been here but the newest one I tried was a gif that broke, gonna fix that once I'm no longer feeling lazy lol.

Also damn do I love X5's boss theme though. Intense and perturbing.

here i made you one. it is very nice and also informative



BIL, your signature picture is cursed, by the way. when it is late at night and all i have for light in the room is the laptop, if it is in my view as i'm reading any text on the screen, it will create an after-image of blue as my eyes dart to the right to continue reading text. this leaves the impression that exactly to the right of that image, there is another image that is the exact same sized, perfectly transparent, but occasionally flashing a bright blue. it's fucking spooky, and i thought you had put a flashing GIF with a very long loop involving random flashing next to it to fuck with people.