Little things that annoy the hell out of you

[Sumez]

I don't really feel like Akai Katana is a representative of Cave's typical dodging style, nor their scoring mechanics

[Jonst]

^ nor is progear in that case, don't see many people slamming that. It's fine to not like it, but the whinging about how complex the Scoring is, is just crap.

[Skykid]

JUST PLAY SHIN

Life begins there.

[Koa Zo]

when you get your head stuck in the monitor
(didn't know where else to post this link)

[Durandal]

when you get your head stuck in the monitor
(didn't know where else to post this link)

The monitor must've been Made In Korea.

[5pectre]

Possibly. It just pisses me off (and comparing it with daifukkatsu). People still making out the scoring is the most complex thing they've ever come across. It's fucking ridiculous.

I don't get this? Shin/Slash mode is pretty straight forward? build iron, get katanas, shoot katanas to fill the screen with gold

[Jonst]

Yeah, I know. It's not difficult... I don't know if the seeming confusion is around shin or zetsu, either way, it's still not rocket science. This was an old topic anyway, I didn't realise some people out there still struggle with the mechanics.

[Stevens]

Progear and Shin are both dope and both dividing. I think more people hate on AK though.

Shin does take a little bit of effort to get the hang of, but once you do it is really fun.

[Jonst]

Indeed they are. It is interesting that progear never cops any hate, yet ak does.

[Sumez]

You serious? I find Progear is probably the Cave game to receive the most flak next to Deathsmiles 2. Despite the horizontal orientation (which is IMO its only flaw) it's also much much more classic Cave fare than Akai Katana is. I don't get how you can even compare the two.

[Jonst]

Really? You don't see any similarities at all between progear and ak?!

Deathsmiles 2, is rarely mentioned, so I'm not really aware of how disliked it is, apart from its graphical style and ease, which are its only faults imo.

[Sumez]

Well, both are horizontal shooters with planes and tanks.
I'd say I can see why a lot of the criticism people have for Progear would apply to AK, but not the other way around.

For the record I really love Progear, and Akai Katana never clicked for me. It's a pain for me to play it.

[Skykid]

Bar aesthetic similarities Progear and AK are completely different. If people are levelling the same criticisms at the games then they clearly know nothing about either.

[Sumez]

Just to clarify, the only (somewhat valid) criticism I have ever seen aimed at Progear is how a lot of patterns (despite the fact that a lot of them have fake gravity) feel like they were designed for a vertical game, and feel strangely unintuitive for a horizontally scrolling game. Apart from that, the game is amazing and IMO very underappreciated.
And while I can see the same issues applied to AK, the game just feels completely different in every other way. I don't mind the fact that other people enjoy it - I'd love to enjoy it myself, I just can't. Sorry for disliking the game that you like

[Jonst]

Sigh... I've said it before, it's fine to not enjoy the game, I don't care about that. My original gripe was aimed at the whingers And ridiculous reasons...It's not hard enough, it's a hori, scoring is to fussy etc. Statements like "I want to like it, but..." Are just stupid.

[Sumez]

No they aren't.

[Bananamatic]

Sigh... I've said it before, it's fine to not enjoy the game, I don't care about that. My original gripe was aimed at the whingers And ridiculous reasons...It's not hard enough, it's a hori, scoring is to fussy etc.

what is a legit reason to dislike a game then, too much anime? no scanline filters? you make it sound like you're not allowed to dislike the game period

a game being too easy when you like a proper challenge isn't a ridiculous reason
a game being a hori when you don't like hori games isn't a ridiculous reason

I want to like it, but..." Are just stupid.

like liking the aesthetic and the music but not the gameplay, which makes the whole experience way worse?

I'll give you the "scoring is too complex", you can fix that by giving it a little time to understand it and it's not exactly rocket science
the game won't flip itself 90 degrees or become harder, no matter how hard you try

[Sumez]

too much anime

[Bananamatic]

reminder that akai katana has the best anime girls out of all the cave games yet no one gives it shit for being anime

[Sumez]

No rule 35 either. Not even from Cave themselves.

[Squire Grooktook]

I only played 2-3 credits of Slash mode (or was it shin? I can't remember) and I didn't fully understand the katana mechanic, but I don't remember Akai Katana being that easy. I mean it was obviously not too hard to clear, but most Cave 1 loop clears really aren't that tough (roughly, by genre standards) when you're accustomed to the playstyle and know how to learn from your deaths.

Like, Progear and ESP Ra.De took me one afternoon of buckling down to 1-all/all(in the latters case). Guwange and Dangun took a week. DOJ and DDP 1-loops are barely any effort due bomb/hyper spam. A lot of these games replay-ability aren't really built around survival difficulty (for 1-loops at least). I'm not sure I'm getting from this convo what makes Akai so different in that regard.

[Bananamatic]

A lot of these games replay-ability aren't really built around survival difficulty (for 1-loops at least). I'm not sure I'm getting from this convo what makes Akai so different in that regard.

for starters, it doesn't loop or even give you the option of playing something harder
it's not like saying that dfk is too easy and then entirely disregarding the fact that there is a second loop (like I've seen too many times)

and even playing for score heavily discourages dodging things if the WR replay from 2012 is anything to go by (unlike guwange and dangun)
huge amount of safespots on bosses and you can just bomb/katana through all the patterns with ease
hell, I'd say that guwange is too hard for serious play with how ridiculous the catspider milk is

[Jonst]

Banana... So, you didn't read where I said, it's fine to not like the game/a game??

It is fine, you took the point about the scoring whinge (which was my main point, the other stuff like being a hori, I've seen said about other games not just ak specifically).

Anyways, I'm done debating this. I wasn't trying to dictate that everyone should love Ak.

[Bananamatic]

you also said in the same post that perfectly valid reasons to not like a game are ridiculous

[Squire Grooktook]

[huge amount of safespots on bosses and you can just bomb/katana through all the patterns with ease

So you're basing that entirely on watched footage of boss fights from a replay?

I dunno, I tend not to trust "easy looking" things too much if I haven't done them myself. I've heard some decent things about the feeling of releasing the katana and cashing in, so I think it's probably worth giving the game a shot even if it's somewhat flawed in some areas.

[Jonst]

Valid in your opinion. Can't we just be friends?!

[Bananamatic]

[huge amount of safespots on bosses and you can just bomb/katana through all the patterns with ease

So you're basing that entirely on watched footage of boss fights from a replay?

easy patterns that you don't even have to dodge most of the time
and you need to no miss in order to fight this "TLB"
I don't think it's even possible to game over to this guy with how you always get to him with full lives and how nonthreatening everything is

this guy isn't really good at shmups yet he cleared the game in 3 credits and got to the TLB without any issues
anyone with a little common sense can see that there isn't much challenge

[Squire Grooktook]

Fair enough. I could see scoring (maybe) still being fun if the katana blasts are fun enough.

I don't want to be argumentative. I'm slightly interested in the game because a few forum members who's tastes I always find interesting (if not always agreeable) like certain aspects of the game, and I'm always open to anything with a flashy weapon mechanic. I will probably just have to spend some time with it one of these days if I can find time for picking up new STG's again.

[Bananamatic]

I'm interested in playing it someday too but there's a 99% chance that I'd clear all 3 modes in a day and not touch it again, no matter how cool it looks and sounds

honestly feels like a waste of money at that point

[Jonst]

It is, and you probably would, being someone used to the likes of ketsui and sdoj. Shin is a cool mode. Zetsu mode is really fun. The challenge isn't to clear it, it's the scoring imo, check out Sinmoon's replay on yt. Origin mode is the weakest mode, one less level and the bullets come at you faster.