How good is Macross Scramble Valkyrie?

[neorichieb1971]

I have a few shmups for the SFC but not this one. But then again it doesn't get much press, its obscure in that it only got a JP release and its damn expensive.

People heap praise on it, but wondering if that is because the SFC doesn't have much in the way of excellent shmups or because it really does test the system. Is it one of those "I didn't know the SFC could do that" moments?


So far I have Rtype 3 and Cotton 100% that I recall and Gradius 3 on the way.

So please talk about this game, and where you rank it in the all time SNES shmups list.

Thanks

[Perikles]

The extolments for it are well-deserved, it's certainly among the best console-exclusive shooters on the system. It has a stupendously strong level design that is built around the strengths and weaknesses of the various pilots and their respective forms, ranging from a claustrophobic battleship stage to a frantic chase through caverns and your obligatory open space stages. Boss fights are creative and allow for a panoply of approaches - do you risk using the sluggish guy with the powerful missiles or do you rather fly around with the regular ship, wearing the boss down in the process? One could argue that the game is a mite too easy for most threats can be eliminated rather easily once their origin/nature is ascertained, but I don't find that to be a large detriment. The audiovisual presentation is likewise utterly fantastic.

I'd definitely place it somewhere in the top 5 or mayhap even top 3 of the system, together with games such as R-Type III, BioMetal and Darius Force. I'll never understand all the critique the SFC has to endure (as far as the comparison between it and the MD/PCE is concerned), it has the best library of console-exclusive horizontals as far as I'm concerned. It's true that it is a bit... atrophic on the vertical front, but it's not too shabby there, either (Kidou Soukou Dion, Flying Hero, Pop'n TwinBee, Super Aleste).

[Kollision]

It's not as good as Axelay but yeah, it's a good one, top 3 stuff on the SNES for sure.

[Squire Grooktook]

Agreed with Perikles

It's no Biometal but it's a very unique and rewarding game with some fantastic setpieces and moments. The speed vs power exchange (depending on who you play as) is unlike any other game and results in some very fun boss fights.

I'm very much a fan of the final duel in particular.

[rancor]

I love it. If you have 3 minutes to spare, watch this video:

https://youtu.be/H7xDoGLp9DQ

It explains almost everything about the game, and highlights all of the good points.

[CIT]

Yet another vote for Top 5 or 3 on SFC.

Excellently designed game, with super slick and impressive production. Particularly recommended to fans of the Darius series, as it revolves around similar concepts.

[AxelMill]

Huh, I've watched Top Hat Gaming Man's "Top 50 SNES games you couldn't play" and found out about this game just yesterday. What a coincidence.
Being as terrible as I am, I died to the first (mid?)boss. Cut me some slack, with all those asteroids and black holes and weapon changing and proto-G Darius-style enemy capturing, I was so confused at first.
It seems really really fun, I'll play it some more. As well as Cotton 100%.

[BrianC]

The title is wrong. The correct title is Scrambled Valkilly.

Spoiler

You would be surprised by how many eBay sellers had it mis-listed with a similar title

I don't have the actual cart, but I plan to give it a play using the SD2SNES.

edit: Gave it a play. The title screen has "Scrambled Valkyrie" in English letters. As Shawn Spencer would say, "I've heard it both ways".

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I bought this particular game as a barebones SFC cart some time back -- awesome shmup title worthy of one's gaming stash/collection.

The other great Macross shmup game is the Super Dimensional Fortress Macross on the stellar PC Engine CD-Rom2 format. Back in March of 2000, it was selling for a respectable 6,600 yen at the used game shops in Akihabara.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[MintyTheCat]

It is quite good and has a few effects that I never saw used elsewhere on the SFC. It was kind of pricey even back in the 2000s, I have no idea what it would cost these days. If you were thinking of buying it please play it before-hand to save yourself some trouble.

Out of all the Macross themed Shmups this may well be the best one.

I have a few shmups for the SFC but not this one. But then again it doesn't get much press, its obscure in that it only got a JP release and its damn expensive.
So far I have Rtype 3 and Cotton 100% that I recall and Gradius 3 on the way.

How much does it go for these days?

If you have, R-Type 3, Super Aleste, Axelay, Gradius 3 and one of the Darius games - I prefer Darius Force to Twin but Twin is a lot easier to get hold of, then you pretty much have the top Shmups on the SFC. It may be worth it but play it and see how you find it. Personally, I feel it is better than Bio-Metal and Phalanx and Super EDF is not even in the same league.
It used to be a lot more expensive than R-Type 3 back in the 2000s but I would say that R-Type 3 is a better game but Macross plays pretty well and looks very good.

[BIL]

Echoing learned friends above, it's a great game well worth having in your 16-bit shooter library. Not as good as Bio Metal, but then very little is. ;3

[PooshhMao]

It's one the SFC's very best shmups.

It looks and sounds great, makes good use of the platform's capabilities, it's fast paced and doesn't suffer any notable slowdown IIRC. Good replayability too.

It's up there with the likes of R-Type III. It's also based on just about the best franchise you could base a licensed shmup on.

I would like to second the emotion that the SNES/SFC's STG library is quite undervalued. Then again you have these vocal Sega fanboys (think Joe from Game Sack or Mark from CGR) that sneer at the system every chance they get. For just about every quality MD/Genesis shmup, you have an equally good SNES counterpart. Super Aleste is better than Musha, and Macross is better than Thunder Force IV.

[Kollision]

Super Aleste is better than Musha, and Macross is better than Thunder Force IV.

hmmmmm

[Squire Grooktook]

I agree with that statement as well as long as we set aleste to hardest difficulty setting.

I think snes vs md is a matter of quality over quantity. There's a large roster of "decent" stg's on MD, and a handful of truly "excellent" ones on snes.

[Vludi]

MD has no Konami or Irem which is a shame, but SNES has no Toaplan which also is a shame. Lucky PCE owners I guess

[neorichieb1971]

I suppose I better put Bio metal on my radar. Phalanx looks good as well.

Super dimension macross sounds like something I read about on the Saturn about 8 years ago.

[Skykid]

It's not as good as Axelay but yeah, it's a good one, top 3 stuff on the SNES for sure.

What's so good about Axelay?

[neorichieb1971]

I bought axelay for the mode 7 and music.

Its a good game, pretty unique and keeps you up beat whilst playing it.

As for being one of the best......

[Kollision]

It's not as good as Axelay but yeah, it's a good one, top 3 stuff on the SNES for sure.

What's so good about Axelay?

It's a 16-bit masterpiece. Graphics, music, ambiance.
In my honest opinion, of course.

[Perikles]

My comparative view on the 16-bit systems:

SFC
+ Arguably the strongest console-exclusive portfolio of horizontals. BioMetal, R-Type III, Macross, Darius Force - I find this doubly remarkable when considering the comparatively low numbers of shmups to begin with.
+ Really strong Konami line-up in general. Like those games or not, but Gradius III, Gokujou Parodius and Parodius Da! are a lot more accessible on the SFC than in their original arcade shape. Parodius Da! in particular is a fantastic port (much better than its PCE equivalent) and I would also argue that all of them tend to be more fun than the partially extremely aggravating arcade originals. Pop'n TwinBee is also a superb 16-bit shooter, and has one of the best scoring systems of any of them.
+ The first Kiki Kaikai is the best multi-directional shooter of that era in my opinion.
+ Tekkaman Blade.

- Small quantity of games.
- Many arcade ports outside of the sterling Konami efforts are either mediocre or downright devastating. BlaZeon and Raiden Densetsu in particular are disgraces to their source material. Thunder Spirits is superfluous, Super R-Type is no worthy port of R-Type II but not interesting enough in its own right. Strike Gunner S.T.G replaces the insubstantial yet extremely short structure of the arcade game with insubstantial yet extremely long, dull, boring stages - not exactly what I'd call an improvement. Acrobat Mission is fairly decent as a port, but one weapon is completely bugged which is an outrageous oversight.
- Not nearly as strong on the vertical front than on the horizontal. There are some exceptions (Flying Hero, Kidou Soukou Dion, Pop'n TwinBee, Super Aleste), but not many.


MD
+ I don't find the console-exclusive horizontals to be quite as strong as those on the SFC, but it's still a fantastic selection: Battle Mania Daiginjou, Crying, Eliminate Down, Gleylancer, Thunder Force IV are all great.
+ Several of the best vertical shooters, with a solid foundation of above-average titles. Undeadline in particular (as well as Elemental Master which is also one of the rare "pedestrian shooters" out there) is exceptional. Granted, a lot of the other strong verts are arcade ports, but they are usually different enough from their origins that they supplement the console phalanges well.
+ Toaplan is indeed to the MD what Konami is for the SFC. V-V/Grind Stormer should've received a 32-bit port, the rest is expertly handled.
+ Lots and lots of quality arcade ports in general, even outside of Toaplan. From Darius II to Senjou no Ookami II, ranging from Raiden Densetsu to Vapor Trail, encompassing games such as Aero Blasters and Fire Mustang. A good amount of the lesser games (Master of Weapon, Uchuu Senkan Gomora) are still more enjoyable than the respective arcade games, Insector X in particular towers over the original game (though that's still not saying much). The only rather disappointing port would be Dangerous Seed.
+ Just a great compositum mixtum of arcade/home computer ports and console-exclusives, verticals and horizontals, tough and easy games, those that loop and those that don't, some superb multi-directionals (Granada, Twinkle Tale) etc. You're definitely going to find something that will please your palate thanks to the vast quantity and variety.

- System got unlucky enough to not only receive horrendous unlicensed titles (Adventurous Boy, Divine Sealing, Magic Girl, The Earth Defend) but also Battle Squadron and Xenon 2 Megablast. Gadget Twins and Super Airwolf ain't much better, either.


PCE - HuCards
+ A number of supreme ports. PCE Salamander is the single best arcade port of the 16-bit generation as far as I'm concerned, yet there's also a lot of other fantastic efforts: Detana!! TwinBee, Dragon Saber & Spirit, Gradius, Kyuukyoku Tiger, Mr. Heli no Daibouken, R-Type, Side Arms, Tatsujin. A good share of the ports that are "merely" above average/strong or even mediocre is still at least as good as the arcade game in question, if not (considerably) better: 1943 Kai, Formation Armed F, Heavy Unit, Ordyne, Rabio Lepus Special, Xevious.
+ Most games tend to be on the easy side which can be detrimental on the whole, but is favourable when facing some of the trash. Better to have an undemanding weak game (e.g. Rock-On) than something like Battle Squadron or Legion.
+ A refreshing amount of obscure/unorthodox games that are either surprisingly good (Download, Final Blaster, Hana Tahka Daka!?, Paranoia, Psycho Chaser) or partially outstanding despite some coarseness (Cyber Core, Violent Soldier).

- While not necessarily too difficult, there are quite a few decidedly feeble/below average games. Barunba, Deep Blue, Power Gate, Saint Dragon (also a strong contender for one of the worst 16-bit ports), Terra Cresta II, Toilet Kids, Toyshop Boys.
- A tragic amount of games that could've been amazing if not for some severe problem: Burning Angels (cheap hits everywhere!), Gokuraku! Chuka Taisen (colossal hitbox!), Hani in the Sky (warps! obtuse shop system!), W-Ring: The Double Rings (flicker!).
- Consistently enjoyable it might be, but I find that the console-exclusive contingent has nothing on the MD or the SFC's selection of horis. This is notably true if you consider the vast quantity of games. Sure, there are the likes of Magical Chase and Soldier Blade, but not much else.


PCE - CD
+ Almost no entirely terrible games at all (excepting Legion).
+ Some stupendous arcade ports (Cotton, Forgotten Worlds, Gradius II, Super Raiden).
+ A healthy range of great console-exclusives: Image Fight II, L-Dis, Nexzr, Rayxanber II & III, Sapphire.

+- Astoundingly goofy/unusual games, some of which disappointing, some rather good: Ai Cho Aniki, Metamor Jupiter, Kiaidan 00.

- More than just a handful of utterly baffling choices for arcade ports. R-Type Complete CD is in any way worse than the HuCard port, same is true for Side Arms Special. We don't need a third Daisenpuu port, certainly no inferior Hellfire port and most definitely no inferior Zero Wing port, either.
- Quite a few console-exclusives are just as bemusing, and a waste of the CD format at that: what's the point of Hawk F-123, for example? Or Avenger, Download 2, God Panic, Terra Forming, for that matter.

[trap15]

The point of download 2 is to kill hitler in a shooting game, tbh. And CDs were almost certainly cheaper than hucards.

[Koa Zo]

[...] a waste of the CD format at that: what's the point of Hawk F-123, for example? Or Avenger, Download 2, God Panic, Terra Forming, for that matter.

Download 2 a waste?~!
It's the best shoot 'em up presentation of any of the PC-Engine shoe'm-ups.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

My comparative view on the 16-bit systems:

PCE - HuCards
+ A number of supreme ports. PCE Salamander is the single best arcade port of the 16-bit generation as far as I'm concerned, yet there's also a lot of other fantastic efforts: Detana!! TwinBee, Dragon Saber & Spirit, Gradius, Kyuukyoku Tiger, Mr. Heli no Daibouken, R-Type, Side Arms, Tatsujin. A good share of the ports that are "merely" above average/strong or even mediocre is still at least as good as the arcade game in question, if not (considerably) better: 1943 Kai, Formation Armed F, Heavy Unit, Ordyne, Rabio Lepus Special, Xevious.
+ Most games tend to be on the easy side which can be detrimental on the whole, but is favourable when facing some of the trash. Better to have an undemanding weak game (e.g. Rock-On) than something like Battle Squadron or Legion.
+ A refreshing amount of obscure/unorthodox games that are either surprisingly good (Download, Final Blaster, Hana Tahka Daka!?, Paranoia, Psycho Chaser) or partially outstanding despite some coarseness (Cyber Core, Violent Soldier).

- While not necessarily too difficult, there are quite a few decidedly feeble/below average games. Barunba, Deep Blue, Power Gate, Saint Dragon (also a strong contender for one of the worst 16-bit ports), Terra Cresta II, Toilet Kids, Toyshop Boys.
- A tragic amount of games that could've been amazing if not for some severe problem: Burning Angels (cheap hits everywhere!), Gokuraku! Chuka Taisen (colossal hitbox!), Hani in the Sky (warps! obtuse shop system!), W-Ring: The Double Rings (flicker!).
- Consistently enjoyable it might be, but I find that the console-exclusive contingent has nothing on the MD or the SFC's selection of horis. This is notably true if you consider the vast quantity of games. Sure, there are the likes of Magical Chase and Soldier Blade, but not much else.


PCE - CD
+ Almost no entirely terrible games at all (excepting Legion).
+ Some stupendous arcade ports (Cotton, Forgotten Worlds, Gradius II, Super Raiden).
+ A healthy range of great console-exclusives: Image Fight II, L-Dis, Nexzr, Rayxanber II & III, Sapphire.

+- Astoundingly goofy/unusual games, some of which disappointing, some rather good: Ai Cho Aniki, Metamor Jupiter, Kiaidan 00.

- More than just a handful of utterly baffling choices for arcade ports. R-Type Complete CD is in any way worse than the HuCard port, same is true for Side Arms Special. We don't need a third Daisenpuu port, certainly no inferior Hellfire port and most definitely no inferior Zero Wing port, either.
- Quite a few console-exclusives are just as bemusing, and a waste of the CD format at that: what's the point of Hawk F-123, for example? Or Avenger, Download 2, God Panic, Terra Forming, for that matter.

For Perikles,

You forgot to mention Data East's OverRide Hu-Card based shmup released on the classic PCE gaming platform. What's your opinion/impression of it? I do recall that it never got a got proper arcade release and remains as an exclusive PCE console shmup title as well.

What's interesting about the American release of the TurboGrafx-16 version of Sidearms is, (the software company that distributed it, Radiance Software) it's their one & only gaming title ever released stateside "before going under the bridge" business-wise. Strange but true -- and thus is regarded as an interesting collector's piece in one's gaming stash alrighty as far as collecting the TG-16 Turbo Chip cartridges themselves (and making the TTI version of Magical Chase the Holy Grail of 'em all to acquire with it's limited American distribution back in early 1994 at USA-based Toys-R-Us stores & elsewhere). Sure, the American mail-order business, Turbo Zone Direct, sold brand new copies of TTI's MC for $39.99 USD back in 1995-1996 -- so yes, it was still available to buy at that particular low-price point back in the day.

Back to the Macross Scramble Valkyrie thread at hand.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Perikles]

You forgot to mention Data East's OverRide Hu-Card based shmup released on the classic PCE gaming platform. What's your opinion/impression of it? I do recall that it never got a got proper arcade release and remains as an exclusive PCE console shmup title as well.

I'm no expert on this, but isn't Override a port of Last Battalion on the X68000? That's what I've read in any case. Cyber Core is yet another one of those X68000 to PCE conversions as far as I know.

Anyway, I do think that Override is an energetic, fun little shooter tailor-made for this system. It has a distinct "Soldier" feeling to it, indulges in mass destruction and flows in an unabating stream of action. The eponymous charge shot is neither necessary nor particularly efficacious yet decidedly delightful in its application nonetheless - who doesn't want to unfetter a devastating gout of flame whose reverberations devour both foes and projectiles, after all? In fact, I would've wished for a higher difficulty setting/increasingly more difficult loops where enemies retaliate with suicide bullets so that you are actually forced to use the charge shot for erasing bullets. Merely boosting the resilience of bosses doesn't make for an interesting change for later loops and the game is very easy as is. Doesn't change the fact that it's a thoroughly pleasurable game, though! This is the right way to create an undemanding shooter in my book: while the parameters (extend scheme, health bar) are generous, the action is uncompromised - the exigency might not be real, but it feels very much so. You're constantly moving around, doing things, not bothered by the fact that you're not really challenged.

[BIL]

AFAIK, Last Battalion was actually later - an expanded remake of sorts.

I really like the "off-brand PCE Soldier" feel of the HuCard - it's a far better attempt at that series than the disappointing middle child Final Soldier, imo. Some of the weapons feel almost Image Fight-influenced, and it even has that game's lovable "booster burn" for incinerating tailgaters! Perikles nailed its pacey yet forgiving appeal. I will only add that the overly generous lifebar system benefits from a little player modification; I like to consider each individual death and respawn a credit used, ala Elemental Master. Gives it a bit more sense of peril, though ultimately as Perikles said, sheer challenge isn't its forte.

Also gets some style points from me for turning into a ground-based vert midway through! I love those. Works great with the "flying tank" ship design and the intro of it speeding along the ground.

[BrianC]

Override looks Compile-ish. Some of the staff is shared with Blazing Lazers and Xevious Fardraut Densetsu. I remember reading that Sting has some former Compile staff.

[BIL]

Aha, that would explain a lot! Override certainly does feel as Gunhed-related as the PCE Soldiers. Its pacing is much tighter than that common predecessor - just a shame it didn't include a similarly bangin' upper difficulty ala Super Star Soldier's ferocious Sugeeze.

[Strider77]

Macross has some music you can get higgy jiggy to...