Some help choosing retro-room devices (CRT, audio equipment)

[DiegoPonga]

Now we talk about modern 4K TVs... HDMI new 2.1 standard is said to include 4K@144Hz (and higher) and adaptive sync. So, do you think it is possible that manufacturers include variable refresh rates for future models?

No idea what manufacturers will really make of that new spec, it's still too early to tell.
If their implementation of adaptive sync as a new mass-market standard, or 'VRR' support as they call it, works with any source over HDMI, with broad-enough range, and without adding lag, then it'll be fantastic...
...but you know things like that only rarely meet our full expectations, there'll probably be some disappointing technical limitation and/or a financial drawback.
Wait and see.

Well, the thing is in a couple of years we could see for ourselves. But we can expect very interesting things around TV technology. Keep in mind that maaaaaaany people want to play games like Overwatch, LoL, DOTA2, Counter-Strike GO and many more at 120-144fps. And also, watching 24fps movies in a 60Hz screen always had issues. Thus, this has to change sooner or later.

Now we're talking about this, does OSSC include some function in order to play 3:4 shmups and other vertical games? Or will I need to rotate my screen in any case?

[Xyga]

Well, the thing is in a couple of years we could see for ourselves. But we can expect very interesting things around TV technology. Keep in mind that maaaaaaany people want to play games like Overwatch, LoL, DOTA2, Counter-Strike GO and many more at 120-144fps. And also, watching 24fps movies in a 60Hz screen always had issues. Thus, this has to change sooner or later.

I wouldn't believe so, the TV market is and has always been massively broadcast/DTV-oriented, manufacturers don't seem ready to break that segment at all.
Whatever new evolution in favor of gaming happening to TVs will mostly be the result of marketing research rather than R&D technical competitiveness aimed at narrower, more specialized segments like PC and games.

Rather, they will make their monitors ever closer to the size of TVs, it's already a trend, we're seeing gaming-oriented 32" 34" 35" 40" 43" models coming out as we speak, increasingly packed with features like high refresh rates, strobing, adapative sync etc.

EDIT: missed that question:

Now we're talking about this, does OSSC include some function in order to play 3:4 shmups and other vertical games? Or will I need to rotate my screen in any case?

The OSSC doesn't feature built-in rotation, because to do that it would need to use a buffer and/or more memory not sure I remember, but in any case that would mean adding lag, sorta betraying its design philosophy.
It does feature fake vertical scanlines for games in 'yoko' mode though.

[Lord of Pirates]

Now we talk about modern 4K TVs... HDMI new 2.1 standard is said to include 4K@144Hz (and higher) and adaptive sync. So, do you think it is possible that manufacturers include variable refresh rates for future models?

No idea what manufacturers will really make of that new spec, it's still too early to tell.
If their implementation of adaptive sync as a new mass-market standard, or 'VRR' support as they call it, works with any source over HDMI, with broad-enough range, and without adding lag, then it'll be fantastic...
...but you know things like that only rarely meet our full expectations, there'll probably be some disappointing technical limitation and/or a financial drawback.
Wait and see.

Well, the thing is in a couple of years we could see for ourselves. But we can expect very interesting things around TV technology. Keep in mind that maaaaaaany people want to play games like Overwatch, LoL, DOTA2, Counter-Strike GO and many more at 120-144fps. And also, watching 24fps movies in a 60Hz screen always had issues. Thus, this has to change sooner or later.

Now we're talking about this, does OSSC include some function in order to play 3:4 shmups and other vertical games? Or will I need to rotate my screen in any case?

I agree with Xyga, TVs and monitors are very different markets. Sports broadcasts are the only thing I could see driving manufacturers to produce higher refresh rate panels for TVs. People playing PC games on TV are a tiny blip on the radar compared to people using TVs for TV/movies. As far as I'm aware, AU Optronics is also the only panel manufacturer making very high refresh rate and high refresh rate/high resolution panels.

That said, I think Bazooka and Bobrocks are right. You're going to have to settle for multiple displays or make a compromise.

[DiegoPonga]

I wouldn't believe so, the TV market is and has always been massively broadcast/DTV-oriented, manufacturers don't seem ready to break that segment at all.
Whatever new evolution in favor of gaming happening to TVs will mostly be the result of marketing research rather than R&D technical competitiveness aimed at narrower, more specialized segments like PC and games.

Rather, they will make their monitors ever closer to the size of TVs, it's already a trend, we're seeing gaming-oriented 32" 34" 35" 40" 43" models coming out as we speak, increasingly packed with features like high refresh rates, strobing, adapative sync etc.

I agree with Xyga, TVs and monitors are very different markets. Sports broadcasts are the only thing I could see driving manufacturers to produce higher refresh rate panels for TVs. People playing PC games on TV are a tiny blip on the radar compared to people using TVs for TV/movies. As far as I'm aware, AU Optronics is also the only panel manufacturer making very high refresh rate and high refresh rate/high resolution panels.

That said, I think Bazooka and Bobrocks are right. You're going to have to settle for multiple displays or make a compromise.

Thank you very much!

I would say that the market is different for monitors and TV. On the other hand, however, I have seen a recent interest of manufacturers in making TVs with monitor specs. As a matter of fact, a 42″ display was considered a TV back in 2012, and now we would say it is a “big monitor.” In other words, I have some faith!

EDIT: missed that question:

Now we're talking about this, does OSSC include some function in order to play 3:4 shmups and other vertical games? Or will I need to rotate my screen in any case?

The OSSC doesn't feature built-in rotation, because to do that it would need to use a buffer and/or more memory not sure I remember, but in any case that would mean adding lag, sorta betraying its design philosophy.
It does feature fake vertical scanlines for games in 'yoko' mode though.

Well, then I'll have to pick an easy-to-rotate monitor or TV. Thank you very much once again! You saved my life (and my wallet, actually).

[orange808]

I wouldn't believe so, the TV market is and has always been massively broadcast/DTV-oriented, manufacturers don't seem ready to break that segment at all.
Whatever new evolution in favor of gaming happening to TVs will mostly be the result of marketing research rather than R&D technical competitiveness aimed at narrower, more specialized segments like PC and games.

Rather, they will make their monitors ever closer to the size of TVs, it's already a trend, we're seeing gaming-oriented 32" 34" 35" 40" 43" models coming out as we speak, increasingly packed with features like high refresh rates, strobing, adapative sync etc.

I agree with Xyga, TVs and monitors are very different markets. Sports broadcasts are the only thing I could see driving manufacturers to produce higher refresh rate panels for TVs. People playing PC games on TV are a tiny blip on the radar compared to people using TVs for TV/movies. As far as I'm aware, AU Optronics is also the only panel manufacturer making very high refresh rate and high refresh rate/high resolution panels.

That said, I think Bazooka and Bobrocks are right. You're going to have to settle for multiple displays or make a compromise.

Thank you very much!

I would say that the market is different for monitors and TV. On the other hand, however, I have seen a recent interest of manufacturers in making TVs with monitor specs. As a matter of fact, a 42″ display was considered a TV back in 2012, and now we would say it is a “big monitor.” In other words, I have some faith!

EDIT: missed that question:

Now we're talking about this, does OSSC include some function in order to play 3:4 shmups and other vertical games? Or will I need to rotate my screen in any case?

The OSSC doesn't feature built-in rotation, because to do that it would need to use a buffer and/or more memory not sure I remember, but in any case that would mean adding lag, sorta betraying its design philosophy.
It does feature fake vertical scanlines for games in 'yoko' mode though.

Well, then I'll have to pick an easy-to-rotate monitor or TV. Thank you very much once again! You saved my life (and my wallet, actually).

Depending on how much you're willing to spend, you don't have to rotate the physical screen. There are options to rotate the video with just over a frame of lag--for progressive signals. Just not cheap options.

[Xyga]

Depending on how much you're willing to spend, you don't have to rotate the physical screen. There are options to rotate the video with just over a frame of lag--for progressive signals. Just not cheap options.

There's absolutely tons of shmups featuring a yoko mode anyway, if your display is big-enough (32"~42" or even bigger) and you add a scaler like a DVDO in the chain for complete resizing flexibility, bypassing ugly ingame filters, all without adding substential lag, then a tate setup next to that becomes redundant/superfluous.

It'll all come down to the quality and performance of the display, and how cheap a DVDO you can find (but they're definitely cheaper than the Datapath solutions)

[ZellSF]

Don't most yoko modes significantly drop resolution though? Trying to get a 320px height signal into 240px doesn't turn out pretty.

To OP: I'm not sure I'm seeing the point in discussing future tech. Sounds like the HDTV you want is at least 5 years into the future, you'll get a lot of advice that might be outdated by that time.

My problem is, you know, I have a girlfriend and that means I cannot have too many displays around here.

At the risk of starting a flamewar: have you thought carefully about whether you really need a CRT and/or a 120hz variable refresh monitor*? Both are pretty space consuming and very gaming specific. You might be able to justify a huge TV and a nice audio setup for watching movies and TV, but both those are strictly gaming only items, require quite a bit of dedicated space and can't exactly be hidden away...

* Assuming you decide to buy something now and not wait 5 years, then a monitor is your only choice for this.

I want to have the following systems inside my new VG room: Atari 2600, NES, Top-Loader NES (NTSC), SNES, MegaDrive, Saturn, Nintendo 64, Dreamcast, PlayStation 2, GameCube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Wii, PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Wii U, NES mini and Nintendo Switch. Also, a PC and a MAME-dedicated small PC I want to build.

There is zero need for a NES Mini here. It's a NES emulator box, half of the systems you listed can do the same job.

It's also a NES nostalgia box, but you've listed what seems to be two NES systems that can do that job. Why both a regular NES and top-loader if you're trying to appease a girlfriend who doesn't want a lot of toys around? They do the same thing.

I would however recommend an original PlayStation, I see you've neglected it and the Sega Master System and I'm guessing it's because their successor systems have backwards compatibility, but the PlayStation 2's backwards compatibility isn't perfect and you can't use PSIO. Hopefully some day we'll get a perfect ODE for PlayStation 2, but it's not today.

[Xyga]

Don't most yoko modes significantly drop resolution though? Trying to get a 320px height signal into 240px doesn't turn out pretty.

Yeah not all yoko modes are pretty especially when they are interlaced, but that was on the 32bit and 128bit systems (except DC in VGA)
Considering the rather limited libraries of verticals featuring yoko on those though, even entirely skipping those won't represent a huge loss.
When you own most major consoles that have a significant amount of shmups, the essential pre-HD-wise is either horizontal and/or progressive, or exists elsewhere, and starting with the HD-era and PC ones; most feature a good yoko mode, which can be made looking better through a scaler for those that only offer poor zoom filters.

Honestly once you have all the consoles, an OSSC, a DVDO, and a great display you don't need to rotate, you're not left with any regrets even if you're missing those few ugly yoko ones.
And I'll be frank, you want to play some oldie Raiden on the PS1 in yoko ? Don't bother and for once just use MAME.

It's all to say not having a display to 'tate' and do everything on it (big tv or big monitor always in landscape) is also valid for a setup IMHO, just really pick that display (monitor or tv) really carefuly.

Though as I've (we've!) said before the overall better solution, and not necessarily very expensive, is to go for a two-displays setup:
- a 25"~27" 4:3 consumer crt tv (not 16:9 or 100hz) until a better pro model is found
- a decent 25"~27" rotateable 16:9 lcd (IPS or VA) Full-HD or 4K
After all the two side-by-side won't occupy more room than a 50" TV...

[DiegoPonga]

Depending on how much you're willing to spend, you don't have to rotate the physical screen. There are options to rotate the video with just over a frame of lag--for progressive signals. Just not cheap options.

Lag is not an option. I hate playing with input lag. I suffered that when I played some frame-perfect games on a shitty LCD (those 768p they used to sell back in 2009... horrible).

I assume there are solutions for this. Another option, as Xyga says, is having an easy-to-rotate monitor.

At the risk of starting a flamewar: have you thought carefully about whether you really need a CRT and/or a 120hz variable refresh monitor*? Both are pretty space consuming and very gaming specific. You might be able to justify a huge TV and a nice audio setup for watching movies and TV, but both those are strictly gaming only items, require quite a bit of dedicated space and can't exactly be hidden away...

* Assuming you decide to buy something now and not wait 5 years, then a monitor is your only choice for this.

Well, that would be killing me if I wanted to build my VG-room up right now. Actually, this is a plan I have in mind, so I wanted just the information I need in order to have a versatile room.

If OSSC does eliminate the need of a CRT and newer TVs include VRR, probably I can handle with just one display. Or probably one big TV and a good monitor.

There is zero need for a NES Mini here. It's a NES emulator box, half of the systems you listed can do the same job.

It's also a NES nostalgia box, but you've listed what seems to be two NES systems that can do that job. Why both a regular NES and top-loader if you're trying to appease a girlfriend who doesn't want a lot of toys around? They do the same thing.

I would however recommend an original PlayStation, I see you've neglected it and the Sega Master System and I'm guessing it's because their successor systems have backwards compatibility, but the PlayStation 2's backwards compatibility isn't perfect and you can't use PSIO. Hopefully some day we'll get a perfect ODE for PlayStation 2, but it's not today.

I know what a NES mini is, don't worry.

By the way, it is that little, it wouldn't disturb anybody. However, a big, bulky CRT certainly would.

I thought both MegaDrive and PlayStation 2 had almost perfect backwards compatibility. Which are the flaws? Thank you very much!

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By the way, is there any solution for lightguns on LCDs?