Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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schadenfreude
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by schadenfreude »

BIL wrote:I prefer localisation to let these things be
Oh, absolutely — we are in agreement here. But given that localization changes were rampant back in those days, they could have done a lot worse with this one. It's nice that all they did was add a couple of intro cutscenes with the frog silliness. I haven't read the manual or played the game past the second level or so (it's been a while), so that's the only change I can think of. Though I remember reading about how there's an area with a deep chasm you can fall into and die, but the localized version adds a platform or something to make it a little easier.
BIL wrote:lest the spectre of Poochy be invoked
Poochy from Yoshi's Island?
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...nor heard of it! Googling...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yume_Miru ... _You_Dream
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Sounds like my kinda party! Wish I had time...
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Aw crumbs - that should be Poochie. :oops: Poochy is ok!

Being mostly done and dusted with original GBA sidescrollers, but curious about some of its SFC ports I ignored BITD, I very briefly tried out Contra: Hard Spirits and Choumakaimura R. Right out the gate, the former irks: you have to hold the direction during a jump to keep moving forward. That is not how Contra works. Image Hyperaggressive downshotting ala SFC, anyone?

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Not as doable on GBA. This one was never going to have an easy time, with the SFC original being so precision-machined to its resolution and controller, but I wasn't expecting such basic engine issues. The title attraction, a couple of lategame Hard Corps stages filling in for the missing topdown segments, doesn't impress. Spheroid Joe and DOCTOR FUCKIN CRAB
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are stars in Hard Corps. On GBA, the absence of its pricelessly double-edged slide mandates the hobbling of both. Spirits' dual gunning is likewise gone, and with it the 200% firepower enabling daredevils to smash boss faces in with blistering point-blank fusillades.

At a more fundamental level than this, the speed, fluidity and intensity of Spirits and Hard Corps alike is AWOL. There is some dubious semblance of their unforgiving difficulty, however; cramped resolution, stuffy hitboxes and punitive shot limits compensate thornily for slower, sparser enemy attacks. Charitably wangling, I might call the effect "methodical;" Hard Corps' traincar firefight and motorcycle snipers certainly warrant more care than their cannon fodder MD equivalents, as does Spirits' battleship underpass. The GBA's sole mechanical addition, Shin Contra's direction lock, is a welcome complement to this more conservative pace.

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^ I've always wanted to do that!

To be sure, the makeshift pressure of unwieldy hitboxes and middling firepower is no match for the 16-bit games at their pixel-sharp, breakneck-quick, armageddon-uncorking best. It's still more eccentric than outright poor, however. Not a bad little curio for diehard fans of a tolerant bent.

Chou R's arrangement seems more interesting on the surface - is that a Border Down route map? I'm nowhere as familiar with the SFC game as Contra Spirits, so engine/performance gaffes won't leap out as readily... diehards might well find something objectionable. As with Hard Spirits, it does at least pass the most superficial of curio tests; looks and feels pretty sturdy.
Last edited by BIL on Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BrianC »

The funny thing is that the US Blaster Master actually adds an extra cutscene that isn't in the JP version. The JP story is only in the manual.

It's odd how the GB b/w port of Contra Spirits has some things missing from Contra Hard Spirits GBA. That port has problems of its own, though.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Updated post with a few more hours clocked. Hard Spirits isn't awful, and has something of a unique angle, but it's distinctly flawed and definitely more of a curiosity than anything essential.
BrianC wrote:The funny thing is that the US Blaster Master actually adds an extra cutscene that isn't in the JP version. The JP story is only in the manual.
I know, just how I like it. :cool:

To be fair, the FC backstory also occasioned some decently characterful boxart. I like the cute staff roll chibi portraits of Pilot Bloke and Engineer Lassie, too, and the wyvern-festooned crimson crest of METAL ATTACKER R&D (or whatever it was) is a neat bit of detail. I prefer the blood red sky of the FC opening too, as MA01 blasts out of its all-business hangar... but then I just prefer the anonymous, innocuous anime space fantasy of Metafight to the NES's almost "TMNT via Lewis Carroll" hijinks. The latter undoubtedly made more business sense, I must concede. >_>

BTW they forgot to recolour Jason's hair brown in the NES ending - it's still blue! :O They did add Fred the Frog though! Haha, that dumbass unlicensed "Worlds of Power" book acted like HE DEAD - those scrubs obviously never made it to the SECOND mutant frog boss!
It's odd how the GB b/w port of Contra Spirits has some things missing from Contra Hard Spirits GBA. That port has problems of its own, though.
Although I actually love the SFC's topdown seek/destroys, I think Hard Spirits did pretty well with its MD train stage. Those footsoldiers can legit kill you with the lack of breathing room, and the bikers are no longer mere fireworks waiting for a match. On MD I love letting 'em stack three deep, then BOOM! Bodies, fire and debris flying everywhere! One of the few times the game will slow down, however briefly! On GBA, the miserly firepower and lack of clearance make even one an issue. The bouncy bouncy drill thing is more threatening sans HC slide, as is Yokozuna, however slightly in both cases.

The fifth stage's use of HC's Super Bahamut showdown kinda blows, though. Unless there's a Hard difficulty packing some big surprises, they just chopped out Spheroid Joe and DR FUCKIN CRAB's best moves, instead of rebalancing them for the lack of slide. SB's about the same as on MD, but was never nearly as good anyway. Should've picked another HC stage, I'd say the Alien Lair. Yeah, there'd be two lairs in one game, but none of the HC stuff makes sense anyway.

I've been a bit of a fanboy with Factor 5's GB version of Spirits. If it'd been handled in-house I'd have checked it out by now, with my fondness for heroic conversions to the platform. Meanwhile, GB Dracula III was KCE Nagoya and it's lame, and AFAIK SFC Ninja Gaiden comp was handled in Japan and it's horrid. :oops: I did my good deed for the year by trying out Bits Studio (SFC Gunforce :evil:)'s GB Ninja Spirit though! It's okay and kinda cute, but not really worth bothering with! Image

I actually remember playing the "Super Probotector" PAL GB version while visiting family as a kid, haha. I'd be down with that tbh.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by GSK »

BIL wrote:that dumbass unlicensed "Worlds of Power" book
...forms the basis of Blaster Master: Blasting Again on PSX, believe it or not.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

I very vaguely recall hearing about that, in a post-FC series overview somewhere. I didn't realise the game itself was Japan-developed, though. Actually, I didn't know until this minute that the game even got a Japan release! My fondness for certain JP-developed 3D action games on the system (Silent Bomber, Omega Boost, Ghost in the Shell) is very slightly piqued, but god knows I'm cautious.

The post-FC vanishing of Sunsoft from action game preeminence reminds me of Natsume's a generation later. Makes me grateful for situations like Konami/Treasure and Irem/Nazca, where key staff escaped that generational cutoff to rack up a few more hardcore hits elsewhere. Ala Metal Slug or Alien Soldier, another Batman or Gimmick would've gone a long way. ...I'm not gonna daydream too much here, having never actually tried out any of Sunsoft's post-FC stuff, but again I'm not overly optimistic.

So, far from the unlockable difficulty I was anticipating after getting a big fat E Rank on my first credit-feed through, Hard Spirits has no bonuses whatsoever. I'm not sure if it even has S-Rank. Got an A for 1CCing, but tbh, it's such a finicky, giant hitbox-reliant game, I'm not compelled to try harder.

Image

Returning to the always-exhilarating SFC version, I actually missed the Shin Contra direction lock briefly. Had the GBA's air control not completely screwed the pooch, I'd prefer its basic controls. Fighting st4's boss with aim locked firmly to the right while scrambling from handhold to handhold feels great. Hard Spirits also earns some minor weapon balance cred by nixing dual fire - Homing and Laser are good choices at a few points. As with the slow, weak, yet thornily-hitboxed bosses, the gain is ultimately Pyrrhic - denying the speedy, lethal Dual Crush game in favour of conservative automated tactics - but it's certainly a change of pace. In this minor alternative universe regard, I'm quite fond of this version. Soundly inferior, but far from deserving of the "awful port" brickbat (see R-Type III for real SFC->GBA badness).

I also tried out the first Super Mario Advance briefly, being on the "big name conversion I've long ignored" tip, and I have to say - the added voice acting and even the new, "expressive" sprites are truly suicide-inducing. When I superjump as Luigi I want to kill myself! Just try it, seriously. "Yayyy" I know, slowpoke.jpg, I even bought this at release BITD... but it's as if I blocked out the memory. 3: The NES/FC version is positively noble in its reserve.

Also, the "swinging" camera that lurches ahead in the direction you're moving is exhausting. I kinda like how it recognises multi-kill chains though! Also, I like the exploration incentive of the secret coins. The original game has a nice degree of nonlinearity, but I speed past most of its nooks and crannies these days. Doesn't take much to make me switch off a Mario in favour of my SMB2J FC Mini cart, tbh.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

Post-FC SunSoft is mostly a completely different team.
I'm sure you know this, but FC SunSoft was basically Tokai Engineering - documentation on this period is pretty sparse, but I'm guessing they were effectively the software developer working under Sun Denshi, and I would guess the switch to the next generation of video game system eventually caused Sun to restructure their software department in an attempt to branch out.

They did manage a few hits in this period. I'm personally a big fan of their fighting games, Galaxy Fight and Waku Waku 7 for Neo Geo.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Yes - I've wondered in the past just how much of Sunsoft's FC heyday was entirely down to Tokai Engineering. Their name is on Metafight and Raf World's title screens, but I pick up a lot of the same virtue (and vice - they weren't shy about the occasional cheap shot!) in Gremlins 2, Batman, Battle Formula and the almighty Gimmick. Lesser stuff like Fester's Quest and Dynamite Batman, too.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

I often see Tokai "dismissed" as a software house that was simply licensed by SunSoft, similar to how various companies make use of Dimps or Tose. I guess this makes sense, considering that Sun Denshi is a much bigger company than simply their games devision (and I believe that some early games like Madoola and Arabian were pre-Tokai), but I'm pretty sure they were a lot more "integrated" into their parent company than people tend to assume. After all, I have never heard of a Tokai game that wasn't released under the Sun brand.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BrianC »

I liked some of Sunsoft's early arcade games and a couple of their early FC titles like that Toukaiden one with the bombs are pretty good. Considering how their arcade games turned out, I chalk up some of their earlier games to them not being used to the hardware. Their port of Sega's Fantasy Zone is especially good and one of the best early ports of the game (It completely blows away the Tengen NES version and it's also better than the SMS version). I'm not sure what the deal is with Tokai Engineering. If I remember correctly, some of the pre-Tokai games have some of the same staff listed.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by EmperorIng »

GSK wrote:
BIL wrote:that dumbass unlicensed "Worlds of Power" book
...forms the basis of Blaster Master: Blasting Again on PSX, believe it or not.
Blasting Again, while not a masterpiece, is a fairly fun game, once you get accustomed to the tank's controls in a 3D space. Levels are large, there are upgrades to be gained, and the game feels pretty open given that you can start hopping between different areas early on.

It's kind of more an interesting curiosity than a more finely-tuned action adventure like its NES predecessor.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by WelshMegalodon »

And Blaster Master 2 is still mediocre.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

Even the original Blaster Master never really clicked with me. Unique for sure, but it too seems to me mostly like an interesting curiosity. Is it really genuinely good? As in "SunSoft good".
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

As a fan of heavy metal sidescrolling ala Valken/Ex-Ranza, it's a must-have just for the tank platforming imo. The collective sense of heft, gravity-defying power and bunker-busting armament is dead-on.

The wider game's execution is unfortunately flawed - mediocre topdown shooting steals time from the increasingly rad tank - but on balance it's easily in the ballpark of Tokai's best stuff.

---

edit: thought I'd revisit this afternoon. Aww hell yeah, it's good stuff indeed. At least the sidescroller engine... the game's definitely unfocused overall, even ignoring the topdown stuff, but the action is more than excellent enough to compensate. For the topdown bits, I highly recommend just playing with autofire on A. The main shot sucks, even when maxed - autofire grenades obviate it nicely. The boss battles are actually ok this way.

This engine with Batman/Gimmick's disciplined arcade pace would've resulted in another classic for sure.

MUSCLE GRIP/ROCKET BLAST FURY
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Heavy. Valkenesque precision and might.

If only they'd stuck to Little Man for the B Game. It's a nice contrast. Authentic Underwater Fight Scene!
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The monochrome enemy sprites so remind me of Raf World and Gimmick's more metallic baddies.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Always thought little man (TM) swimming animation was adorable.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Yes. :mrgreen: I love his similarly "peekaboo mittens" army crawl, too.

Image

I notice all of Tokai/co's sidescrollers have really characterful walk/move cycles. I enjoy just watching MA01 trundle along, the suspension bouncing. It won't do this on ice, where its wheels spin furiously just to keep grip - I wonder if that was deliberate. Regardless, there's Batman's crusading, power-shouldering run straight out of the 1960s TV intro, the more furtive jog of Raf World's Jay (makes me think of a soldier hurrying between trenches, evoking the game's Terminator-licensed origin), and Yumetaro's brisk but unharried stroll through Gimmick's deadly toyland. Metafight's Kane is totally in that tradition - they leveraged an impressive return from those tiny frames.

---

Speaking of deadly toylands! Is anyone familiar with the Clockwork Knight games for Saturn? I've had 'em on my mental back burner for a while, pending research... blackoak posted a quick developer interview at Shmuplations, so I'm feeling motivated. There's also Astal, now that I think back to the "stylish early Saturn sidescroller nobody talks about today" file.

Also, short but sweet Vampire Killer developer promo interview!
Toshiki Yamamura wrote:We wanted to challenge ourselves to present a new style and flavor to the series: speedy and action-packed, while still retaining the strategic aspect of the earlier Castlevania games.
Challenge accomplished with flying colours, Yamamura-san. Image
If you find Vampire Killer too easy for you, be sure to check out the overseas version, Castlevania Bloodlines. It’s like the “tabasco” version of Vampire Killer, in terms of difficulty.
Word!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by copy-paster »

Haven't played VK yet, I wonder what's the difficulty differences between CV Bloodlines?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Basically, Vampire Killer's Normal is closer to Bloodlines' Easy.

The difference is much less pronounced on the two games' Expert setting. If you can comfortably one-life VK/EX, you won't have much trouble with BL/EX. If you struggle to clear VK/EX, BL/EX will probably stop you. ;3

Specific Bloodlines Expert difficulty boosts, AFAIK:

Stage 1 - adds infinitely respawning turbo bats in the final area of the entryway, and the penultimate dungeon area.

Stage 2 - platform-orbiting fuzzies are marginally faster (also in stage 6).

Stage 3 - no changes.
Stage 4 - no changes.

Stage 5 - Evil Pillar miniboss gets triple fireballs, making him a bit trickier to shut down for John.

stage 6 - biggest difficulty boost by far. No health restores in this stage whatsoever (Death gives one in Vampire Killer), adding additional pressure to ace the opening areas.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by FinalBaton »

BIL wrote: Challenge accomplished with flying colours, Yamamura-san. Image
Agreed. such a kickass action packed platformer. Truly masterful.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

BIL wrote: Speaking of deadly toylands! Is anyone familiar with the Clockwork Knight games for Saturn?
Don't take my word for it, but it's a terrible game.
Feels like a western developed 16 bit platformer in a lot of ways.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ebbo »

Not sure if this has been mentioned here but Blaster Master is getting sort of a remake this spring, made by Inti Creates. Looks and sounds rather promising, even includes an upgraded little man (TM) swimming animation :P
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by GSK »

"this spring" = next week (March 9) for 3DS and Switch. They're also adding additional character DLC, including the Li'l Gunvolt shown in the trailer.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Looks nice.

Was a little disappointed by the fact that the top down areas seem to mimic the nes versions (with a few extra conveniences like aim locking). they could have at least sped up the move speed a little (unless that becomes an upgrade).

That disappointment was immediately abated by the vision of a Tank mode boss fight. Now that looks rad!
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Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Shoryukev »

That Blaster Master remake/new game looks a lot better than I expected!

Any Turbografx-16 action games I should be on the lookout for besides Ninja Spirit? I'm very new to the system and fairly unfamiliar with it, right now all I've got is Keith Courage & Bonk's Adventure with a handful of shmups in the mail (Blazing Lazers, R-Type, Air Zonk). I've heard some good things about Legendary Axe and Parasol Stars but haven't played them yet.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Squire Grooktook wrote:Was a little disappointed by the fact that the top down areas seem to mimic the nes versions (with a few extra conveniences like aim locking).
You actually can lock aim in the FC version, albeit by holding A (so no strafe grenades). Apologies if you knew this already - I first noticed it in the GB Color port and initially wondered if it'd been added there, haha.
Shoryukev wrote:Any Turbografx-16 action games I should be on the lookout for besides Ninja Spirit? I'm very new to the system and fairly unfamiliar with it, right now all I've got is Keith Courage & Bonk's Adventure with a handful of shmups in the mail (Blazing Lazers, R-Type, Air Zonk). I've heard some good things about Legendary Axe and Parasol Stars but haven't played them yet.
Legend of Hero Tonma is an easy recommendation - same excellent standard as Ninja Spirit, Vigilante and (Japan-only) Mr. Heli's PCE ports. I think even the brutally claustrophobic JP-only Image Fight is worthwhile too... but it's decidedly a Marmitey Memoriser Hatefuck. ;3

Tonma's not as inherently tough as Ninja Spirit, but its pacing is similarly no-nonsense. It's also much more of a run-and-gun affair than its Wonder Boy-esque aesthetic might suggest! The maxed-out weapons rival anything from the Contra series, and there's no shortage of deserving targets. One of those games I found a snap to clear, but have yet to get tired of.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Shoryukev »

Legend of Hero Tonma looks pretty interesting, I'm going to have to check that out (maybe on an emulator, the US-TG Hu Card is pricey!!!). Definitely has a similar charm to its graphics along the lines of Wonder Boy. I actually really enjoyed WB in Monster World on the Genesis a lot, my only real complaint being that it was too easy until the endboss.

I'll take a look at Vigilante too. As a youngling I was incredibly obsessed with the NES port of Kung Fu Master...Vigilante being a spiritual successor I can see myself sinking some time into it and having a blast. I've been looking at China Warrior for the same reason. I've read from several sources that it is a subpar game, but looking at it I get a Kung Fu Master vibe with the character sprites on Mega Turbo SteroidsTM so I might enjoy it anyways.

As always thanks for the recommendations BIL!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by EmperorIng »

Its controls take some getting used to, but I also recommend Genpei Toumaden Kannoni (aka Samurai Ghost). It's a bit less wonky than its arcade predecessor in tightening up its controls/mechanics, and offers a pretty lengthy adventure. Its later boss fights are frustrating, demanding some pretty worked-out positioning and AI manipulation (imo), as flailing the attack button does you little good as it does in the earlier game.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

Parasol Stars is one of the absolute best titles available on PCE, it is absolutely mandatory in any collection, and much better than the famicom port, or the downright broken Amiga version. It's a perfect example of that well executed gimmick platformer Taito so excellently churned out one after the other during that period.

You definitely can't pass over Legendary Axe or Tonma either. Both are must haves!

Off the top of my head you may also want to check out Bonze Adventure or Bloody Wolf.
edit: Oh yeah, and of course (The) Ninja Warriors, classic Kung Fu/Trojan style walk-to-the-right-while-timing-your-hits-as-things-rush-at-you action game.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by EmperorIng »

Eh, I'll have to disagree with the Ninja Warriors rec! The port is missing too many things: chiefly, the tank battles!* The strategies I developed in the AC version are of no avail here, which really turned me off. It's kinda neat but I would stick with the Mega-CD port, which itself isn't perfect either.

I just really love the game, as simple as it is. Probably for pure aesthetic reasons (the violence! the narration! the NO DAMN WAYs!).

*no more mowing down rows of enemies by tricking the tank into cruising through half a level... The MCD port misses this too. :evil:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

Or just go all in and go for (The) Ninja Warriors Again!
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