Anyone else use a Neo Geo on Sony Consumer tv's?

[Taiyaki]

Something interesting has come up. I saw this being discussed on the Neo Geo Forums that the Omega CMVS has a wobble shaky image on certain consumer tv's. Surely enough I tested with mine and got the same results - on ALL my tubes. I also gave my neighbor's supergun a go which gives the same problem. Is the Neo Geo having trouble on medium size Sony CRT's?


These tv's all have a wobble or shaky picture that happens on the OSD with no systems powered to the TV. This is completely normal. I had noticed this years ago but never gave it second thought because whenever you power on something it just fixes it completely. Again, this seemingly irrelevant internal interference that occurs on the OSD is only present when nothing else is on. You press power on a system and boom it becomes stable and perfectly normal.


To summarize what the Neo Geo appears to do is that instead of correcting the internal interference, it runs with it. At least this is what I suspect: instead of doing something wrong, it is NOT doing something right. Some action that should correct the original wobble shaky image is just not happening. I've connected dozens of devices to these tubes and every single one corrects it except the Neo Geo.


Here's a video from the Neo Geo thread which pictures the problem quite accurately (with the Neo Geo on).

https://youtu.be/fidh9pltpzw


I've tried this on the KV-20FV10, KV-24FV12 and of course my favorite, the KV-20FV300.

It's a pity I don't have the FS level sets anymore but according to the thread on the Neo Geo forums it happens on those too.


So what I want to ask all of you Neo Geo owners out there, either running a Neo Geo Aes, a supergun, or a cmvs of some kind. What's your experience running on Wega line tv's?


Secondly for a more technical question, does anyone have any idea what it is that the Neo Geo might NOT be doing that is resulting in the picture not getting corrected? Someone brought up it could be the encoder but I don't think so. I checked inside the Omega CMVS and it uses a CXA1145 encoder for the composite and s-video and some custom one for the component. This happens on both, and on top of that there's nothing wrong with the CXA1145 encoder, other systems such as my model 1 Japanese Mega Drive runs on one of those and runs just fine. So we can probably rule out the encoder. This is a mystery.

[bobrocks95]

I would assume any signal problems are from the Neo-Geo's odd refresh rate of around 59.2Hz. I think people have slightly overclocked the machine to fix a lot of compatibility issues.

EDIT: According to Marqs some models also have a design flaw where the horizontal sync fluctuates. I think horizontal sync judder could definitely manifest itself as horizontal wobbling on the display.
https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... #post-8678

Affected models are MV-1FZ and MV-1A, though there could always be more.

[mvsfan]

I have a Sony where my Mvs doesnt even work on it. it just gives a blank screen.

my other tvs, it works fine.

[Taiyaki]

I would assume any signal problems are from the Neo-Geo's odd refresh rate of around 59.2Hz. I think people have slightly overclocked the machine to fix a lot of compatibility issues.

EDIT: According to Marqs some models also have a design flaw where the horizontal sync fluctuates. I think horizontal sync judder could definitely manifest itself as horizontal wobbling on the display.
https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... #post-8678

Affected models are MV-1FZ and MV-1A, though there could always be more.

Good job finding that. I had forgotten about the Neo's odd refresh rate. I'm not sure this would affect a crt but it's something to keep in mind.


The issue Marqs disccusses is interesting but I think it's a different issue. This problem here exists in these Sony tv's internally when nothing is powered. If you navigate the OSC you can see it. When powering the Neo it should straighten itself up. It's as if the Neo isn't sending the message to the tv that "hey something is powered on you should revert to displaying a normal image", and so the tv keeps the odd wobble shown above.

By the way the Omega is a MV1C.

I have a Sony where my Mvs doesnt even work on it. it just gives a blank screen.

my other tvs, it works fine.

Please share your tv model and what CMVS you're using, could help in identifying your problem.

[Taiyaki]

Something else hit me. the Omega cmvs has the board hooked up via jamma. I wonder if this could be related to the Neo not correcting the innate interference on these tv's.

Anybody else have any experiences with cmvs to share?

[Taiyaki]

This is really weird. I find that with my buddy's Neo Geo testing on my tv's no problems at all. I'm going around scratching my head trying to understand what's wrong with the Omega CMVS and the supergun I tried on these tv's. Could using Jamma be the action that prevents the CMVS from correcting the tv's internal interference?

Anyone else have any other experiences with medium size crt tv's running Neo systems?

[gray117]

This happens on both, and on top of that there's nothing wrong with the CXA1145 encoder, other systems such as my model 1 Japanese Mega Drive runs on one of those and runs just fine. So we can probably rule out the encoder. This is a mystery.

Hmm... I'd actually imagine something like this is the problem. Just because a different system, with a different output doesn't suffer from conversion issues doesn't mean the converter's good for all systems/uses.

I can't say I've noticed such an issue with any mvs+supergun setup (albeit on rgb)... Bizarrely on one set I had various rgb issues until adding a pot to and turning down sync, but this was not unique to neo in that case... Though I must note for most people, issues with sync signal strength tend to be that it's too weak.

Have you tried passing the signal through another device like an extender, splitter, recorder or receiver - see if it changes anything for the worse or better?

Beyond that afraid no help. :/

mvs fan: was this using scart rgb? Some sets need the blanking signal to switch (and then some need it constantly to retain) rgb input.

[Taiyaki]

Hmm... I'd actually imagine something like this is the problem. Just because a different system, with a different output doesn't suffer from conversion issues doesn't mean the converter's good for all systems/uses.

I can't say I've noticed such an issue with any mvs+supergun setup (albeit on rgb)... Bizarrely on one set I had various rgb issues until adding a pot to and turning down sync, but this was not unique to neo in that case... Though I must note for most people, issues with sync signal strength tend to be that it's too weak.

Have you tried passing the signal through another device like an extender, splitter, recorder or receiver - see if it changes anything for the worse or better?

I think you may be right. It could be the encoder, or maybe a (weak?) sync signal. I don't know what made the creator of the Omega CMVS think it was a good idea to use this encoder when there are so many other choices on the market.

Yes by the way I did try with a splitter, switch box, directly to the tv, all connections. Same result with all of it. Guess my advice to anyone with an under 27inch Sony crt tv is to not buy this CMVS.

[furntree]

I noticed this today on my display and thought I was going crazy! Thank you for calming my woes.

I have a larger display 32FV310 with a MV1C going through a JROK. I'll mess around and see what I can find.

Refresh rate quirks definitely seem likely!

[Syntax]

Question to OP.

The Neo geo outputs csync for sync correct?
What other systems are you using for testing that fix the wobble?
Do they also use csync or do they use composite video as sync?

[mvsfan]

Neo geo doesnt work on a lot of sonys. Sonys are picky. they expect everything right at 60 HZ, and the neo geo is close but not exactly 60 hz.

I have a Cheap Emerson crt that displays the Mvs fine. Jvc crt also displays it fine.

but it wont work on what was originally a $2000 sony.

[SamIAm]

My Omega CMVS works with a Japanese KV-29DX650 and KV-29DX550. I just got a KX-29HV3, which I'll test when I get home, although that's pre-Wega.

[SamIAm]

Not totally sure that this is worth a thread bump, but mine does indeed work fine on the KX-29HV3. It was made in 1993, and is very similar to a PVM-2950.