What is never brought up in the PS1/Saturn Dodonpachi debate

[Kiken]

I love firing up a console port. Fuck the police! WTB Saturn Gun Frontier! ¦3

However, the PS1 port has a slowdown button. 3:

The PS1 port, has a slowdown button. ¦3

A MOTHERFUCKING FALSIFICARE ON TAP SLOWDOWN BUTTON. EAT SHIT 凸(｀ω´メ)

I suppose they originally added the slowdown button for practice purposes but never got around to adding an actual practice mode. This is then made all the more awkward with there being a Wait Mode option that's OFF by default and can only be accessed from the Pause Menu.

The pixelated explosions in the Saturn port make me think that Cave really needed to make the game 1-Meg Cart compatible (hell, this could have been their intention at one point). Sure, that doesn't fix any of the glaring enemy placement or timing issues... but it would have at least fixed the major graphical flaw.

[davyK]

If a port doesn't recreate the original game's rules then maybe there's an issue. The PS1 port with it's problems - an issue about bees and lasers - and the slowdown on demand button does seem to be a step or two removed from the original game. But even with that , I know it is a port that is enjoyed. You might have an argument supporting such a port being broken. I'm not sure that the Saturn port is "broken" - just different.

Saturn DDP is one game that benefits the most from rotating the screen. The default display really is rather ugly. Once you TATE the game it actually looks rather nice - explosions and all - and playing it on a CRT as originally conceived makes it look even better. I can't see a massive difference graphically between it and on MAME - I have compared the two - though admittedly not side by side using similar display sizes. I'd probably see it then but frankly life is too short. It's bad enough - at my age - playing videogames as much as I do without comparing pixellation on explosions.

I don't want this to turn into something. Some people care more about accuracy. Some don't - and never the twain shall meet. There's room for both. And if enough people here want to create a Saturn DDP high score thread then so what?

[BIL]

If a port doesn't recreate the original game's rules then maybe there's an issue. The PS1 port with it's problems - an issue about bees and lasers - and the slowdown on demand button does seem to be a step to two removed from the original game.

I'm compelled to soapbox a bit here. I'm 100% down with treating ports as their own thing (even casually-termed "arcade perfect" ones) - actually, it's one reason I prefer them to emulation, since everyone's playing on the same closed system. If the port's close enough that runs can translate 1:1 to PCB, that's certainly great, but it's never a dealbreaker for me.

So the PS1 DDP's inaccuracies didn't bother me much when I was considering picking it up years ago (was already getting pricey). However, it's in exactly this standalone context that a slowdown button bothers me. If everyone's got falsificare on tap, that very closed system approach is tainted. It's as if, instead of ditching the arcade's silly "jam a toothpick in Start for extra Guts bonus," Raiden DX's PS1 port had stuck a "skullfuck everything 4 FREE" button under the player's thumb.

TBH these days I'd probably say "fuck it" and just enjoy the port on my own terms. I was a bit more community-focused then, but competing against my own performances for the satisfaction of a good run is largely why I enjoy arcade-style gaming now. However then Instant Brain popped up and despite its bonus DDP emulation being barebones af, it doesn't have a falsificare button. Also is cheap. So I went with that.

[davyK]

There's a video of that being 1CCd by a guy using Kinect motion control (!)

[Sumez]

Saturn DDP is a lot of fun to play :3

[PROMETHEUS]

lul i was thinking about what i wrote about saturn ddp port a few times and i wanna say it's probably unfair to call it "garbage" or something like that, i should probably just have accepted that it is a different game and one shouldnt expect to get the same sort of results playing it as playing a different version. Cant remember exactly how i phrased it and stuff but anyway I felt like apologizing a little bit about it : P

[davyK]

You were pretty hard on it. @PROMETHEUS



But, given that DDP on MAME is very accurate then buying the Saturn port , especially now with the MISTER available for the price of a Saturn + copy of DDP , it doesn't make sense getting it unless you are collecting Saturn games or Cave ports.


What I find interesting about the Saturn port is the fact that Cave ran a high score competition using it with a PCB of DDP Blue Label/Campaign Version being the prize. That indicates to me that they must have been sort of happy with it...... So I wonder if the differences are deliberate? Was DDP still a money earner in the arcades back then? Maybe they wanted to protect that but also wanted port sales.

Here's a picture of the spine card that I have with my copy of the game - it refers to the competition:

[neorichieb1971]

I'm not sure I'd pay for Saturn DDP now as it wouldn't be a cheap game to get, especially when emulation is so accurate. But there's a collector side to me that likes having physical media although I don't believe in games sitting on shelves for too long so they have to be playable. My copy of DDP actually came as part of the deal when I bought my JPN Saturn.

Maybe if I had played the original a lot I would think differently but I'm more than happy with owning and playing it.

This is the wrong forum for talking about anything collectible. There are about 5 people in this forum that collect, I am one of them.

If people are playing old consoles on this forum its via ODE (A storage card full of ROMS replaces the CDrom laser pickup).

If you said the RGB was better from the Saturn than the PS1, then SWARMS of posts would erupt like a volcano on heat.

This forum is about 1% collectibles, 50% roms/emulation, 5% PCB's and 40% video signal boxes/video modifications. Every now and again, someone mentions a new shmup.

[guigui]

This forum is about 1% collectibles, 50% roms/emulation, 5% PCB's and 40% video signal boxes/video modifications. Every now and again, someone mentions a new shmup.

I like this. And I also like DDP.

[Bassa-Bassa]

What I find interesting about the Saturn port is the fact that Cave ran a high score competition using it with a PCB of DDP Blue Label/Campaign Version being the prize. That indicates to me that they must have been sort of happy with it...... So I wonder if the differences are deliberate? Was DDP still a money earner in the arcades back then? Maybe they wanted to protect that but also wanted port sales.

The competition was more an Atlus thing, as they also were the publishers of the PCB version, which indeed made still money by 1997. Cave never gave a shit about port accuracy nor had the means to provide it, we all know that.

[bigbadboaz]

not to mention it was a marketing thing.. doing something to drive sales of the product is natural; it really doesn't necessarily correlate what the creators of the product actually thought of it.

[davyK]

If the prize had been some tat then I'd heartily agree. But - that was some prize.

A highly accurate DDP port , particularly on Saturn in Japan would have hurt the game in the arcade. But I accept it's probably just an iffy port - though I like that they tried to add some value with the Saturn mode and implemented TATE. With the tech of the time, an accurate port of DDP was unlikely anyhow as it wasn't emulation.

[davyK]

Maybe if I had played the original a lot I would think differently but I'm more than happy with owning and playing it.

This is the wrong forum for talking about anything collectible. There are about 5 people in this forum that collect, I am one of them.

For the record, I'm another. But - I won't pay crazy prices. The most I've paid is £140 for boxed and complete Bangai O for N64 - but I financed that by selling 3 boxed and complete PAL N64 games. I've been lucky enough to pick up what I have over a long period of time for reasonable prices.

I've started to grab physical Switch shmups as and when I see one I like. I don't blindly collect. Tetris games is my other collecting weakness.

Steam is rather good though. And I've used MAME for many, many years.

[neorichieb1971]

Maybe if I had played the original a lot I would think differently but I'm more than happy with owning and playing it.

This is the wrong forum for talking about anything collectible. There are about 5 people in this forum that collect, I am one of them.

For the record, I'm another. But - I won't pay crazy prices. The most I've paid is £140 for boxed and complete Bangai O for N64 - but I financed that by selling 3 boxed and complete PAL N64 games. I've been lucky enough to pick up what I have over a long period of time for reasonable prices.

I've started to grab physical Switch shmups as and when I see one I like. I don't blindly collect. Tetris games is my other collecting weakness.

Steam is rather good though. And I've used MAME for many, many years.

Collecting can be done at any price and for anything.

This forum is weird, put a Cave PCB up for sale and it goes for $4000. Then in the next thread they say "why don't just emulate xyz game on your PC?"

Don't be harsh on them though, if a component/RGB switcher came out for $400 a whole bunch of people would preorder 10 of them for $4000. Thats what they collect. . We are semi local, i'm only about 400 miles away.

I own the DDP PCB at the moment. But maybe not for long.

[Ddshot]

I feel you,this forum has not been great the last several few years,it’s a shame really.

[bigbadboaz]

Can't say I agree, it still sees respectable activity after all these years. Speaks to the durability of the shmup niche. Look at something like the DPress forums, which theoretically cover all of retrogaming.. crickets.

Realistically, a lot of time has passed from the heyday of the genre - a LOT. You can only expect the community to be slowly shrinking, not the reverse.

[neorichieb1971]

Its the interests of the forum that have dramatically changed. It shouldn't really be called the "shmups" forum anymore.

What is good about this forum is the community.

I joined around 2001 when it was about shmup talking and trading. The internet, along with retro boxes, emulation, PC's and RGB signals are whats keeping it alive today. Lets face it, there are 100 forums for that.

The hi scores charts let folk compete on emulation. Before you knew it most folk were on these platforms, not original hardware. I'm almost done collecting, playing and trading. At the ripe age of 50, I have found life has other opportunities. The world is big, and gaming has become something I couldn't have possibly imagined. For the worse. The PS4 was the last console I bought in the chronological order of time, and I have zero interest in anything since.

I am going Japan in a few months, my last "hoorah". I will enjoy buying what little else I want and leave it at that.