Monitor advice

[kamiboy]

Where did you get this 100hz info from? I see no 100hz artefacts on mine when I play on it. I find the image quality to my liking, though I admit it is nowhere near as sharp as a Pro monitor. Unfortunately I've never seen a Loewe anywhere over here.

[andykara2003]

It's been a while, but now you mention it I think I only heard that from a couple of posts on forums a few years back. B&O's page doesn't mention it, though, and you don't get the artefacts so it mustn't be - which makes it the most desirable B&O CRT for games to me. I don't know why more people don't go for these - the MX series seems to get all the attention.

I don't game on pro monitors either - I just use Sony & Loewe consumer TVs for 15Khz, even though I have much "better" CRTs. I was just interested in the 600 line shadow mask monitors as over the last few years I've had an obsession with getting the best image from the N64. I eventually came to the conclusion that I had one last CRT type to try - the 600 line Ikegami, the BVM's opposite. The idea being that it's better than a consumer tube, but with a less scanlined and more forgiving image than the aperture grille monitors, perhaps more arcade-like which might suit the N64's rough image.

Funnily enough, I just stumbled on just that & bought it. According to the seller he bought it off a guy who had it at home and just used it for grading for his work in TV adverts. It seems to be in good condition too so there might be some hope. I'll get back here an post my thoughts..

[kamiboy]

The popularity of the MX line has much to do with how ubiquitous they are compared to less common models like the Beovision 1.

I can go down to the building E-waste bin right now and fish out an MX, but I've never seen any Beovision 1 models being tossed.

[Xyga]

In Europe we don't need to look only at now damn fucking ridiculously overpriced PVMs and BVMs because they're ever-hyped by north-Americans in every bloody retrogaming forum.
It's the only category of real direct 15KHz RGB monitors they can get, okay so they have a good reason. But why the same obsession over here ?

We have tons of real RGB consumer TVs of all kinds (also arcade cabs of course), trinitrons or masks, many absolutely great, yet a good number of Europeans sheep behind Americans on English-speaking forums and go hunting for broadcast monitors, struggling with issues and cash like it's the only real thing and their reputation as retrogamers depend on it.
This stupid behaviour is then replicated in other languages communities.

The dumbest thing after that and some time past, is to read people complaining those broadcast monitors are too 'scanlined', just as herpy-derpy as the opposite when people at first essentially from NA who've known only broadcast were laughing at actual real consumer and arcade TVL-level CRTs like it's 'not the real thing', but then even Europeans went and lined with that opinion (I'm betting that demographic is mainly younger ones who got into retrogaming when CRTs were already mostly gone, and they lack references)

Community hype *slap, slap, slap*

When you think about all the missed opportunities to save the still many working consumer CRTs in Europe worth being saved from destruction, all that because people follow the PVM/BVM hype, it's kind of infuriating.

[andykara2003]

I agree with you on a lot of that - I think there's quite a few of us that actually prefer the consumer look over the high end pro look as well. My BVM gets absolutely no use at all. As long as an RGB consumer TV is a great model and hasn't had too much use, I personally wouldn't need anything more. Being in the UK, the only exception is for 31Khz, which my NEC pro monitor excels at.

I would say, though, that I absolutely don't think it's dumb for some people to regard the broadcast monitors as too scanlined - I just can't stand that look & don't want to be playing my games as if I were looking at them through a set of Venetian blinds..

[Xyga]

What I mean to call dumb is to only look at PVM/BVM when living in Europe when we have a lot more options, options that are the real thing, not the poor man's choice.
People who started 'retrogaming' late just don't seem to realize that anymore, it's baffling and the reason why today consumer crt's are more neglected and left to die in dumpsters than they would have been without that broadcast hype.
Really it's been like that these past years, every new guy registering on a retro community despite living in Europe being like "will drop 500~1000€ for Sony pvm/bvm".
I don't spit on those great Sony monitors (like or like not their look) but what the hell, people can't have any more perspective than following opinion leaders who say "this is the best". Whether it's true or not and whatever those leader's motivations is not the problem, it's that people don't even begin to research.

[andykara2003]

Totally agreed - crazy to pay that over here when we have so many decent consumer models. Then it's just a case of picking out the ones that haven't gone dull & soft with age..

[FinalBaton]

Wow Xyga, please calm down

But yeah I agree that consumer sets are a great option, and should not be seen as inferior. If anything they are a more authentic choice than pro monitors!

If I were in Europe, I'd be perfectly happy playing on a set like this (Sony KV-C27), which Shining posted pics of on here :







And supposedly the X1 and X5 Trinitrons are even a bit better!

[svensonson]

I had a bunch of consumer tv`s in the past 15 years. B&O MX4000,7000, bunch of Sony KVs and old CRT monitors like from Commodore and Microvitec for what is meanwhile called "retro gaming". I also prefer any sony pvm/bvm or xm29s since the first second I plugged one of these pro graded monitors into the power socket.
2 of my KV`s died suddenly and this was also one of the reasons I searched for a broadcast monitor. I assumed that the pro monitors might last longer than the aged consumer tv`s.
but like finalbaton said the consumer tv`s are a good option.

the only consumer tv that I miss is the Braun Atelier TV3 that I had set up together with the other components from the Braun Atelier series. unfortunatelly I had to sell the set a while ago

http://picclick.de/TV3-Braun-Atelier-32 ... id=1&pid=4

[Fudoh]

FYI: Braun C4 is the best looking tape deck in existence.

[svensonson]

thats true without a doubt !!!
I love the cassette slot-in mechanism of it...damn...I regret so much now

[andykara2003]

Wow that kit looks awesome! You guys got some great consumer CRTs in Germany that never came over here - the Metz, Loewes, high end Grundigs etc. I had 2 of my best CRTs shipped from there.

Are those Brauns as good as the Metz & Loewe stuff for 15Khz?

[Xyga]

I had a bunch of consumer tv`s in the past 15 years. B&O MX4000,7000, bunch of Sony KVs and old CRT monitors like from Commodore and Microvitec for what is meanwhile called "retro gaming". I also prefer any sony pvm/bvm or xm29s since the first second I plugged one of these pro graded monitors into the power socket.
2 of my KV`s died suddenly and this was also one of the reasons I searched for a broadcast monitor. I assumed that the pro monitors might last longer than the aged consumer tv`s.
but like finalbaton said the consumer tv`s are a good option.

the only consumer tv that I miss is the Braun Atelier TV3 that I had set up together with the other components from the Braun Atelier series. unfortunatelly I had to sell the set a while ago

http://picclick.de/TV3-Braun-Atelier-32 ... id=1&pid=4

I don't question the technical superiority of many broadcast monitors, it's just that lots of them don't look like what i've known since my childhood, neither homes sets nor the arcades monitors had this sharp a picture and that stacked-lines/lego look (when it comes to the sharpest of the Sony's they definitely don't look like the real thing but 'enhanced' instead, they're definitely not my taste).

And yes my main point is that when you live in Europe you can have authentic, much cheaper, and hype-free.

PS: those Braun sets devices look sexy as Hell

[svensonson]

@andykara2003

yes, its picture is quite well for a TV. its design is just way better than on any other consumer tv. it reminds me on an arcade monitor since it does not have these speakers left and right. hard to explain


@Xyga

I totally understand you! I used to play my games on a 13" PAL TV my entire childhood

[andykara2003]

I'd love to see one in action but never going to happen. Thanks for sharing tho.