Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

Finally got a few new Famicom games .
First off is Chou Wakusei Senki Metafight (Blaster Master):
I have a feeling that I would have loved the game way more if it was a straight action game. I mean don't get me wrong, I like the exploration part of the game also but I love to drive (and jump around) in the tank and wreckin shit up . Controls are tight, music is awesome. The overhead stages add a lot of variety to the game. Not your typical sidescoller but a really well made game.

Metafight is definitely a case of "very good, could've been classic," imo. The "tank platformer" element is absolutely superb; despite it being several years and a whole generation older, I put its handling on par with Assault Suits Valken for pitch-perfect arcade/sim balance. METAL ATTACKER 01 is an innately satisfying piece of heavy sidescrolling machinery to pilot, vaulting pits with almighty hydraulic force and nailing precarious landings with subtle restraint... the starting jump+shoot mechanics could've easily supported a full game, but there's so much more - slicing through watery depths, vernier-thrusting across yawning chasms, battling for traction on icy floors and driving straight up/along walls and ceilings with palpably gravity-defying grip. The exposed pilot is suitably puny by comparison, and suitably kept to rare, hurried disembarkings where enemies and gravity perpetually menace.

Problem is the topdown incursions, as well as the way they're implemented. They're passable, but nowhere near a match for the sidescrolling element... and once you know which hidey-hole the area boss is located in, all the rest become total wastes of time. Fortunately, contact with them can be extremely minimised on replays, but this brings up another issue - as fun as the tank's upgrades are, you really only get to use them in one area apiece. It's too bad Sunsoft didn't figure out topdown shooting until Gremlins 2 - if that was the calibre of action on offer, I'd have much less of a complaint!

A brilliant heavy machine sidescroller, sharing space with a forgettable topdown shooter. Still a must-play; the tank stuff is just that good. FC version also benefits from a perfectly reasonable "pls mr. soldier, use our supertank to save planet" premise. The NES stuff about a kid and his missing frog is one of those backstories that's actually stupid enough to tarnish the wider game, however mildly.

Next up is Dead Fox (Codename Viper):
A nice Rolling Thunder clone. It gets tough in later levels. Controls are tight, Graphics are nice and the music is ok. Nice addition to the FC library .

Oh man, I love Deadfox. Sharp and lethal tactical sidescrolling! I may give 1LCing it a serious go when I've more time, and the mental scars of Holy Diver have healed over.

@BIL (and everybody really)
What are your thoughts on Moon Crystal and Sword Master ?

I've never played Moon Crystal ; not out of any aversion (it sounds pretty solid, at minimum), more procrastination plus being absolutely hell-bent on acquiring several other FC sidescrollers when I last considered it. ;3 Sword Master I really want to like - the duelling concept is very cool and the presentation is rad - but in practice, I wasn't feeling its action much. TBH I find Zelda II more satisfying for sword/shield action versus worthy foes (that's no damning with faint praise - I unashamedly love Zelda II!).

Might revisit both at some point. Certainly not games I'd turn my nose up at.

Dead Fox / Codename Viper would be really good if the enemies didn't have touch of death. Of all the things it copied from Rolling Thunder, why couldn't it copy the stun-touch in the player's favor? Shinobi did this right.

They did at least reverse-steal Shinobi's flexible jumps, though. ;3 I really like the hybrid effect. No bombing, or free attacks, or bumping, but with quickness and technique you can finesse your way out of hellaciously tight circumstances.

What I would change about the game is something else it imported from Shinobi - hostages. Or rather, the way they're handled. I love how they're in random doors from game to game, forcing you to visit areas you might otherwise prefer to leave alone. I wish they were in the open, though. The amount of door-checking can feel excessive, though I applaud its switching RT's "enter/exit" routine for a quick, efficient "revolving panel" effect. It's also frighteningly easy to die for a split-second's inattention, so I never have time to feel bored. If anything I'm scanning both sides of the screen for a would-be fatal bullet on a collision course with Mr. Deadfox's dome.

Oh also, Deadfox, bro... put some pants on! God damn son, palette limits ain't no excuse! :O

NWS FOOTAGE OF CANCELLED PS1 SEQUEL

Spoiler

[Sumez]

I completly forgot about the randomly hidden hostages. That's a pretty stupid idea. This game is a bunch of really simple mistakes from being one of the best on the NES, instead it ended up being passed over as a minor hidden, and very rough, gem.

[BIL]

It is a bit annoying, and tbh as much as I enjoy methodically combing through a stage's doors while keeping my eyes peeled for sudden death (I'm a methodical chap ), I don't know if it'd make for good watching. (my "one in the chest, two in the nuts" takedowns OTOH are most watchable )

To be fair though, there's only one hostage you need to save (the agent) and he's always in the same easily-identified late-stage area (eg in st1, he'll never appear before you've crossed the river). So you can largely ignore the hawt babes, little boys and cock-blocking skeletons. Ammo's always in the same places, too. If you're actively hunting down the bonus/style points for 4/4 hostages per stage, you're probably pretty hardcore into it anyway. ;3

[dingsbums]

Metafight is definitely a case of "very good, could've been classic," imo. The "tank platformer" element is absolutely superb; despite it being several years and a whole generation older, I put its handling on par with Assault Suits Valken for pitch-perfect arcade/sim balance. METAL ATTACKER 01 is an innately satisfying piece of heavy sidescrolling machinery to pilot, vaulting pits with almighty hydraulic force and nailing precarious landings with subtle restraint... the starting jump+shoot mechanics could've easily supported a full game, but there's so much more - slicing through watery depths, vernier-thrusting across yawning chasms, battling for traction on icy floors and driving straight up/along walls and ceilings with palpably gravity-defying grip. The exposed pilot is suitably puny by comparison, and suitably kept to rare, hurried disembarkings where enemies and gravity perpetually menace.

Problem is the topdown incursions, as well as the way they're implemented. They're passable, but nowhere near a match for the sidescrolling element... and once you know which hidey-hole the area boss is located in, all the rest become total wastes of time. Fortunately, contact with them can be extremely minimised on replays, but this brings up another issue - as fun as the tank's upgrades are, you really only get to use them in one area apiece. It's too bad Sunsoft didn't figure out topdown shooting until Gremlins 2 - if that was the calibre of action on offer, I'd have much less of a complaint!

A brilliant heavy machine sidescroller, sharing space with a forgettable topdown shooter. Still a must-play; the tank stuff is just that good. FC version also benefits from a perfectly reasonable "pls mr. soldier, use our supertank to save planet" premise. The NES stuff about a kid and his missing frog is one of those backstories that's actually stupid enough to tarnish the wider game, however mildly.

I couldn't say it better . When you play a stage for the first time it becomes cumbersome to check each topdown area if it's the hideout of the boss => this slows the game down a lot. I feel it would have been much better to scrape the idea of the top down sections completely. Or make something like in Salamander => changing horizontal / vertical levels and ditching the exploration part.

Oh man, I love Deadfox. Sharp and lethal tactical sidescrolling! I may give 1LCing it a serious go when I've more time, and the mental scars of Holy Diver have healed over.

Didn't know you just have to get the Agent hostage => I go for all doors => just for ammo / weapons alone .

I've never played Moon Crystal ; not out of any aversion (it sounds pretty solid, at minimum), more procrastination plus being absolutely hell-bent on acquiring several other FC sidescrollers when I last considered it. ;3 Sword Master I really want to like - the duelling concept is very cool and the presentation is rad - but in practice, I wasn't feeling its action much. TBH I find Zelda II more satisfying for sword/shield action versus worthy foes (that's no damning with faint praise - I unashamedly love Zelda II!).

Might revisit both at some point. Certainly not games I'd turn my nose up at.

What I really don't like about Moon Crystal is how jumping is handled. You just can get up on a higher platform if you jump on the edge and climb up => similar to Prince of Persia. I really love the aestetics of Sword Master - I have to play the game longer to really have an opinion about it .

[__SKYe]

Taking advantage of BIL's soft spot for vs CPU hardcore fighting games (and hopefully this qualifies as such), after getting the 24-ALL on Yie-Ar Kung Fu, I felt tempted to try to get a 1CC of Street Fighter II: World Warrior (Arcade), since it had been a while since I last played it.

On the highest difficulty (Level 7 on MAME) playing with Ryu, on a good run I can reach Sagat, and on a decent run I can reach Claw (Balrog/JP or Vega/USA).

I've beaten Claw many times before, but still find it hard to consistently beat him (or even half consistently ).
Sagat on the other hand, is pretty brutal, and I usually take a few credits to beat him.
The Dictator (Vega/JP or Bison/USA) normally takes even more credits than Sagat.

I guess getting the 1CC on this game will take a while.
If I do indeed end up getting a 1CC, it will be my 1st ever fighting game 1CC (excluding Yie-Ar, of course).

I gotta admit, I'm sorta proud of myself, because until literally a couple years ago, I used to avoid fighting games like the plague. It was one of the only genres I would not even try playing at all.
I could not, by the life of me, comprehend fighting games at all, and playing them seemed like a button mashing fest.
So I am proud to announce that I no longer am that noob that used to throw specials all the time in hopes that they somehow hit the opponent.

So even being able to get this far in SFII feels pretty good, though there's still much to learn.

EDIT: Managed to reach the Dictator in one credit, and was feeling good, but not surprisingly, I was absolutely murdered.

[WelshMegalodon]

Very cool. The likes of Oni: The Ninja Master and Konami's own Kyuukyoku Sentai Dadandaan would be right up your alley, in addition to the obvious recommendation of Warzard.

Accurate CPS3 emulation? Yeah, it'll happen. Someday...

[__SKYe]

Thanks man.

The likes of Oni: The Ninja Master and Konami's own Kyuukyoku Sentai Dadandaan would be right up your alley, in addition to the obvious recommendation of Warzard.

Yeah, I know those games, but I've yet to play any of them except Warzard (which i played slightly).
To be honest, the main reason I put them off for so long, was precisely because I sucked at fighting games, so now that I have a slightly better grasp of the genre, I think I'll start working on them.

That sort of vs Boss CPU action (instead of traditional fighting games) is quite appealing.
And they look gorgeous, especially Warzard look, being a CPS-3 game.

Accurate CPS3 emulation? Yeah, it'll happen. Someday...

Is the current state of CPS-3 emulation that bad? Honest question, I've never (nor will ever) played the real thing, so I have no clue as to what the differences are.
I normally use the CPS3 Emulator (that's the actual name) if playing by myself, or FBA when playing SF3 on FightCade (pretty rarely though).
On MAME, CPS3 emulation runs too slow on my PC, so I've never actually properly played in it.

[WelshMegalodon]

It's not unplayable by any means, but there's definitely room for improvement. Here are some excerpts from the documentation on Progetto EMMA:

Figure out proper IRQ10 generation:
If we generate on DMA operations only then Warzard is OK, otherwise it hangs during attract
HOWEVER, SFIII2 sometimes has messed up character profiles unless we also generate it periodically.
I think the corrupt background on some of the lighting effects may be related to this + the DMA
status flags.

Alpha Blending Effects
These are actually palette manipulation effects, not true blending. How the values are used is
not currently 100% understood. They are incorrect if you use player 2 in Warzard

Sprite positioning glitches
Some sprites are still in the wrong places, seems the placement of zooming sprites is imperfect
eg. warzard intro + cutscenes leave the left most 16 pixels uncovered because the sprite is positioned incorrectly,
the same occurs in the sf games. doesn't look like the origin is correct when zooming in all cases.

Not much is known about the actual CPU used in this system due to the extensive use of encryption and the volatile
nature of the security information.

And as you've (inadvertently) demonstrated, the lack of people actively comparing emulation to real hardware is one of several obstacles to more accurate emulation than we currently have (lack of interest being by far the biggest factor). While it's clearly selfish and more than a bit unrealistic to expect much more from a relatively niche, volunteer-led project, it doesn't hurt to remember that yes, things can be better. Arcade emulation suffers more from this issue due to most people not owning Konami System GX* hardware (for example) at home. And there are always whispered rumors of how MAME drivers aren't actually as accurate as the layman would believe, just highly unoptimized.

Think of it this way: even MAME drivers marked 'Good' suffer from inaccurate emulation to varying degrees, whether it's the 'lights out' effect in Elevator Action Returns or completely broken speed in Mushihimesama. In many instances the MAME devs are the only people that even know there's anything wrong. If not even the MAME devs consider the emulation good... it probably isn't good.

By the way, Elsemi's CPS3 emulator hasn't been updated in like ten years. No one really seems to be running tests on it other than those related to lag.

[__SKYe]

And as you've (inadvertently) demonstrated, the lack of people actively comparing emulation to real hardware is one of several obstacles to more accurate emulation than we currently have (lack of interest being by far the biggest factor). While it's clearly selfish and more than a bit unrealistic to expect much more from a relatively niche, volunteer-led project, it doesn't hurt to remember that yes, things can be better. Arcade emulation suffers more from this issue due to most people not owning Konami System GX* hardware (for example) at home. And there are always whispered rumors of how MAME drivers aren't actually as accurate as the layman would believe, just highly unoptimized.

You're very right. But i guess it's not that odd that most people can't tell the difference between emulation and the board (like myself), given that it's is very unlikely nowadays, that the average person can actually play the real thing. And depending on where one lives, it might be nigh impossible, unless one buys a board internationally (from ebay/etc).
This is very much my situation, as the odds of finding a CPS-3 cabinet in my country, in 2017, has to be pretty much next to none.

By the way, Elsemi's CPS3 emulator hasn't been updated in like ten years. No one really seems to be running tests on it other than those related to lag.

That's good to know. I guess I'll use FBA instead.
Regarding MAME's CPS-3 emulation, even if it is/was more accurate than any other emulator, in my case doesn't make a difference, because my crappy PC can't run it at full speed.
As the saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Everyone here should give Bleed 2 a shot.



Great game with super-fluid movement and lots of cool bosses. Play Arcade mode for the best experience. (The original Bleed is cool too, and it's really cheap right now.)

[Sumez]

Never heard of it, but it looks cool as hell.

[Squire Grooktook]

Haven't had a chance to try the sequel yet, but the original Bleed is an excellent game. Mechanics have a few rough points and there are a few questionable aspects, but very much delivers unique movement within a classically twitchy and focused arcade experience. Very much recommended.

[Vanguard]

I'm working on a one life clear of Castlevania. I'm almost there but stage 6 is giving me trouble, especially the bridge with the giant bats. One thing I noticed is that demon dracula seems to refuse to shoot if you stand close enough to him. Combining that with BIL's kneeling tactic should make him a nonissue even without holy water.

Everyone here should give Bleed 2 a shot.

That looks really cool, thanks for the recommendation!

Edit: Got it. After ending the recording I decided to try out the second loop. 2-4's fishmen are some bullshit.

[Ebbo]

Bleed 2 pretty much met all the hefty expectations I had for it after following the development progress through developer's blog (which is certainly worthy read, go check it out). Making the katana part of default loadout, the ability to reflect enemy bullets and attacks alongside with constant barrage of boss battles reminds me of S&P2 although Bleed 2's length is certainly more manageable, a clear taking only around 25-30 minutes. But it's all good and it's super replayable.

[Squire Grooktook]

The only complaint I've heard about Bleed 2 is that it slants things more towards the boss rush side of the equation. I don't mind that personally, but I did feel like the excellent balance of run and gun combat platforming and frequent hyperactive showdowns was one of it's best aspects.

Also missed this:

until literally a couple years ago, I used to avoid fighting games like the plague. It was one of the only genres I would not even try playing at all.
I could not, by the life of me, comprehend fighting games at all, and playing them seemed like a button mashing fest.

Good job on improvement.

The best advice I can give a newcomer in understanding the genre is that they are about "reading", not "reactions". They're an elaborate game of multi-layered rock/paper/scissors.

Like in another game, all the attacks are telegraphed so you can dodge on reaction. Fighting games, everything is too fast. Every attack loses to another attack if done at the same time or induced to miss. Not attacking loses to throwing. etc. etc. They are games based on predicting what your opponent will do and countering accordingly. Chess with manual execution.

This is why, despite their often glorious aesthetics and combat/movement mechanics, I don't enjoy playing fighters single player and don't recommend taking them that seriously on that front. CPU's don't learn or predict the way human opponents do. It's obscure pattern memorization with 0 telegraphing. Good for practicing your character when friends aren't around, but ultimately a very lifeless and hollow experience. Stick to brawlers IMO if you want hardcore melee brawling action with an emphasis on spacing and timing, but playable reactively and improvisationally.

[Shoryukev]

Played Keith Courage in Alpha Zones for the first time yesterday, NEC really should have went with a different game for the pack-in! Overall it was enjoyable but a few things really drag it down from what it could have been.

I beat the whole game using a few continues, some of the platforming is fun and the enemies are just absurd which is kinda cool. Mixing the town overworld stages and the action stages in the mech-suit is kinda cool......but grinding for money to buy swords and alt weapons is kinda lame. The lady who heals you is pretty pointless, once you enter the mech-action stage you can just find a large enemy like the Titan Guard (I've been calling him Magnum Face) and walk back and forth making him respawn until his death yields a heart.

Speaking of hearts, there are several.....that look exactly the same. One version of the heart does what you expect, it fills one of your heart containers. Another version fills your entire health bar, and a third variation actually extends your health bar by one heart. Would it have killed them to use different sprites for this?

The controls are a little strange, if you jump while moving right for instance you can stop your forward momentum by holding back on the opposite direction.....but it just stops you and you can't move left at all. If you jump while standing still you can alter your jump arc and move left or right....but as soon as you pick a direction you're stuck in the previous control scenario. It made the platforming feel a little strange, and in a few instances in the last two overworld stages the controls really start to weigh you down. In the mech-action stages it isn't as much of an issue, but in the overworld it gets annoying....fast.

My biggest gripe with the game however.....is the red spikes. So many times in the mech-action stages you have to fall blindly into pits, and you simply can't see the spikes before it's too late and you hit them resulting in an instant game over. Combine that with the jumping controls and this will cause you to die many times. Having the camera move down a bit allowing you to see and react to what's below you would have been a good design choice.

Falling into the boss area is kinda strange as well, I noticed something weird going on depending on how you fall. If you're moving sideways as you fall into the boss area the game will hiccup a bit....not sure why this happens. I saw what appears to be frames being dropped, and the trajectory of my fall would change midair and slow down. Weird!

As a whole it wasn't a bad game, but falling into the red spike insta-death thing almost made me stop playing. If nothing else playing through it made me realize that now that I've got a Turbografx I really need to get some games for it LOL.

[__SKYe]

The best advice I can give a newcomer in understanding the genre is that they are about "reading", not "reactions". They're an elaborate game of multi-layered rock/paper/scissors.

Like in another game, all the attacks are telegraphed so you can dodge on reaction. Fighting games, everything is too fast. Every attack loses to another attack if done at the same time or induced to miss. Not attacking loses to throwing. etc. etc. They are games based on predicting what your opponent will do and countering accordingly. Chess with manual execution.

Yeah, I've learned a lot in since then, mainly because I started watching things like EVO and Tougeki, etc. Also reading articles fighting games helped a lot to better understand their concepts and lingo.
So even if I mostly suck, I can now, at least, know what the hell is happening in a given match, instead of just brushing it off like a random button mashing fest (or Hadouken spam).

This is why, despite their often glorious aesthetics and combat/movement mechanics, I don't enjoy playing fighters single player and don't recommend taking them that seriously on that front. CPU's don't learn or predict the way human opponents do. It's obscure pattern memorization with 0 telegraphing. Good for practicing your character when friends aren't around, but ultimately a very lifeless and hollow experience. Stick to brawlers IMO if you want hardcore melee brawling action with an emphasis on spacing and timing, but playable reactively and improvisationally.

I agree that playing Fighting games single player is nowhere near as enjoyable as playing human opponents. After all fighing games where meant to be played between two humans.
The main reason I play them in single player, is because there are only a few that I can actually play against other people, so for those games I can only play vs CPU, I try to 1CC them so as achieve a moderate level of competence on them.

Perhaps the thing that's most fun in any given fighting game, is that many of the characters require a widely different playstyle (like shoto/Ryu, charge/Guile/Balrog, throws/Zangief, and a mix of thereof), so even if you can clear the game with one character, there's still more to do with the game.

Single player is indeed great for practicing the technical aspect of the games (like specials execution, combos, etc), so that you can maximize your opportunities in multiplayer.

[BIL]

Skye, have you played The Ninja Warriors Again (SFC) ? A masterpiece of sidescrolling brawling - Ninja and Kunoichi's respective Hard games will give you tons material to work with (Kamaitachi is just as unique, but unfortunately unbalanced; the game's clear EZMODE character). It's on SNES too, but slightly damaged by censorship (the game's all about its crowd mixups... SNES deletes one enemy type and replaces it with more of another; note that even the JP version has green blood, however).

The subgenre sadly vanished post-16bit, unless you count the "broken belt" of Guardian Heroes and Panzer Bandit, but regardless - this one's sublime strike/grapple game and fiendish AI will last hardcore fans the ages. Still refining my "master of the ass-shatterer" Ninja Hard run.

2-4's fishmen are some bullshit.

They really are. It feels like the designers wanted to make the Stopwatch all but mandatory, but relying on it past the midpoint island will leave you with only a Dagger for Frankie. Bit dangerous! Not sure if there's a simpler watchless method than the one I eventually devised... maybe the simplest method would be to get really good at killing Frankie with the Dagger, haha.

I could be way off here, but I could swear loop 2's courtyard fleamen stop dropping Axes. Otherwise, that'd be a more than acceptable compromise IMO.

Bleed 2 pretty much met all the hefty expectations I had for it after following the development progress through developer's blog (which is certainly worthy read, go check it out).

Good stuff - clearly a guy who knows and loves his action gaming.

---

I've been pottering about with Dead Fox the last couple days - since it defaults to Easy, I went ahead and gave that a quick playthrough. It's actually not a bad challenge; shouldn't take more than an afternoon, but the tight level design and unforgiving action won't let you slum too much. It's likely worth doing if you intend to clear the upper difficulties, as they get painfully strict early on - knowing stage layouts in advance is an obvious edge.

As Normal and Difficult make apparent, the difficulty is basically an "enemy bullet speed" adjust. Normal is a pretty substantial undertaking - made it to my usual stage 6 before calling it a night. Difficult would be more accurately described as "Extreme" or perhaps "Loop 2." Enemy bullets are so quick, they border on instant death - you have maybe half a second from an armed baddie entering view to duck. Since ducking is an absolute defense (nobody but you can shoot low), it's not quite as onerous as it may sound - quite addictive, actually. But it most definitely makes stages straitjacket-tight; not recommended before clearing at least Easy. Feels about in line with Metal Storm's second loop for remorselessly cruel method action. Unlike MS there's a definite random element too - it's all very predictable unless you start hunting for hostages, which will leave respawned shooters roaming about.

Cool game. Certainly one of the more authentically arcade-tough console originals I've played.

[__SKYe]

Skye, have you played The Ninja Warriors Again (SFC) ? A masterpiece of sidescrolling brawling - Ninja and Kunoichi's respective Hard games will give you tons material to work with (Kamaitachi is just as unique, but unfortunately unbalanced; the game's clear EZMODE character). It's on SNES too, but slightly damaged by censorship (the game's all about its crowd mixups... SNES deletes one enemy type and replaces it with more of another; note that even the JP version has green blood, however).

Yes, I've briefly played the SNES version, though not much. Gotta give the SFC one a spin though.
What're your thoughts on the arcade version? I know that it is pretty diferent from the SNES and PC-Engine ports (it also uses 2 screens , if I'm not mistaken).

I'm still trying to beat Final Fight, but it's still my favourite beat-em-up ever.
There are prettier games, better sounding games, games with more moves and more characters, but to me Final Fight is the epitome of beat-em-ups.

On a good run, I can reach Belger on the SNES/SFC port, and managed to 1CC, in Normal difficulty, the GBA port with the Cody and the Z versions of Cody and Guy.
I find the GBA Final Fight to be a very nice port of the game.
The Arcade version, on the other hand, is damn brutal, so it will take quite a while to get anywhere on that one

[BIL]

What're your thoughts on the arcade version? I know that it is pretty diferent from the SNES and PC-Engine ports (it also uses 2 screens , if I'm not mistaken).

AC Ninja Warriors is basically Spartan X's striking action with added guard/projectile mechanics, and the complication of a much wider aspect ratio. The Mega CD port translates the game to single screen quite well, though I did encounter some nasty camera issues in its final stage (big bruisers spawning at point-blank, mainly). Haven't played the PCE port much... I'm still a bit new to that system in general. It seemed fun enough from a quick spin but I can't vouch either way.

Ultimately the game's most legendary aspect is probably Zuntata's characteristically snappy yet unsettling weirdpop OST. "Motherless Children" is intense.

Natsume's comprehensive SFC remake The Ninja Warriors Again is totally its own game, effectively bridging the gap between Spartan's crisp striking and Kunio's gritty brawling. It keeps the AC's guard mechanic (and the associated long jump), and you'll notice lots of familiar enemy designs. Pincer mixups are still a key element, too. Beyond that, though, it's a fully-fledged sidescrolling brawler. Strikes are more complementary to grapples, which are fundamental to both crushing single targets and controlling wider crowds. Hurling enemies into their comrades, foiling their attempts to surround you, is the key to dominance. You'll still knock baddies the fuck out with the occasional precision strike, and you most definitely can't ignore blocking, but the paradigm is unmistakably shifted towards brutal manhandling.

I highly, highly recommend TNWA; between the beautiful strike/grapple system and deviously tricky AI, it's desert island material for sure. Just remember that Ninja and Kunoichi are where it's at for hardcore brawling; Kamaitachi is cool, but EZMODO. ;3

BTW, on the more Spartan X side: Taito's later Thunder Fox is great! Basically Spartan's combat plus Rolling Thunder's strategic gunplay. Don't bother with the MD port, it's dreadfully slow and tired. AC one (in good form on Taito Memories II Gekan) is anything but.

Spoiler

[Vludi]

I find the GBA Final Fight to be a very nice port of the game.
The Arcade version, on the other hand, is damn brutal, so it will take quite a while to get anywhere on that one

The GBA port is pretty much the SNES version with more enemies on screen and some restored content, not a big fan of it personally.

Talking about "broken belt" games people tend to forget the first Tenchi wo Kurau, along with King of Dragons it's a nice example that you don't need a huge move list to make a fun, solid beat 'em up. It's all about mobility, frantic action and taking out 8 enemies with one charged shot.

[BIL]

By "broken belt" I mean Guardian Heroes' and Panzer Bandit's system of breaking the traditional beltscrolling playfield into seperate planes, with the player and enemies able to hop between them. Not the most elegant terminology, but I wouldn't call them traditional beltscrollers.

[Vludi]

Yeah I know, Tenchi wo Kurau has 3 planes too despite not looking like it at first , however you can attack when you are changing planes unlike GH and P. Bandit.

[BIL]

Oh, right! Yeah, I can definitely see it now. Very cool, thanks for the heads-up! I'm pretty familiar with the sequel's Saturn port, but I'd only seen still images of the original until now. The mounted battle concept is badass, and the more distant, panoramic view of the action is a logical fit for the multi-plane system.

Out of curiosity, do you know if the PCE-CD port is decent? NEC's CPS1 track record would seem pretty solid (Pang is lovable, Daimakaimura and Forgotten Worlds are spectacular), but the tragically botched Strider always makes me hesitate. edit: Actually, this looks so cool I'd probably pick up a copy even if it's not the most faithful port, haha. Like a moving painting, watching the big guns duke it out on horseback while zako footsoldiers scurry about underfoot.

[Vludi]

I've heard good stuff about the PCE port but I still have to try it myself, from what I've seen the gameplay is overall faithful but easier/slower than the arcade, enemy waves don't get as frantic and some bosses have less HP, oh and it has some great arranged voices. I will give it a serious try later!

[EmperorIng]

From what I've read, Tenchi's worst problem on the PCE is that its sprite allocation wasn't done efficiently with the PCE in mind, so there can be a bit of flicker. This is similar to what you see in Forgotten Worlds and Strider.

Layering 3 sprites on one another (player+horse+weapon) eats up a large chunk of the available display area for sprites to show without flickering or keeping the number of baddies per-screen lower.

I haven't heard of glaring problems outside of that (aside from some gripes about loading). At least watching it in motion on youtube doesn't bring up some glaring inconsistencies.

[schadenfreude]

The NES stuff about a kid and his missing frog is one of those backstories that's actually stupid enough to tarnish the wider game, however mildly.

Ah, I must admit that I like the localized story (though I also have to disclose that I've had a fondness for frogs since childhood). A cute, simplistic — hell, childish — story like this harkens back to the halcyon days of youth. It's easy to associate 2D games with youth because 2D graphics resemble cartoons — and cartoons remind me of my childhood. But of course, if a modern photorealistic 3D game had a similar story, I wouldn't want to play it.

On the flipside, it's hard to take "serious" stories in 2D games seriously because the oftentimes cute graphics clash with the message, like if a TMNT episode tries to pontificate on the perils of war or some such. Games that aren't fully cute often have a goofy side to them, like the Contras and Metal Slugs.

[GSK]

Inti Creates is working on a Blaster Master remake(?) for 3DS; it's called Blaster Master Zero (even in Japan) and it seems to be an amalgamation of Meta Fight and Blaster Master elements--the art design is very Meta Fight but the intro they showed on stream featured some frog-jumps-into-portal nonsense as well.

[BIL]

Ah, I must admit that I like the localized story (though I also have to disclose that I've had a fondness for frogs since childhood). A cute, simplistic — hell, childish — story like this harkens back to the halcyon days of youth. It's easy to associate 2D games with youth because 2D graphics resemble cartoons — and cartoons remind me of my childhood. But of course, if a modern photorealistic 3D game had a similar story, I wouldn't want to play it.

On the flipside, it's hard to take "serious" stories in 2D games seriously because the oftentimes cute graphics clash with the message, like if a TMNT episode tries to pontificate on the perils of war or some such. Games that aren't fully cute often have a goofy side to them, like the Contras and Metal Slugs.

I should say, it's not that I find the FC's stock "lone hero VS evil army" premise at all compelling; it's inherently childish, fanciful stuff - as it should be! Befits the simple pleasure of the game itself, where you roll around an alien labyrinth in an improbably well-armed tank that jumps. It's all of one seamless piece.

I prefer localisation to let these things be, lest the spectre of Poochy be invoked. According to Super C's NES manual, the st3 midboss has an illustrious rap sheet involving the destruction of an entire solar system. It's just a tank, for god's sake. o_o I bet the JP manual says something like "Autonomous all-terrain sentry SPIDEY_WIDEY. Shoots and tramples chumps." And that's ok!

Incidentally I think someone on Naoki Kodaka's sound team liked frogs too - that distinctive burbling "rwwr" SFX seemed to find its way into all of their subsequent FC works (Batman's ride screeching to a halt in st2's intro cutscene, Raf World's game over jingle, Gimmick's own frogs, offhand).

Inti Creates is working on a Blaster Master remake(?) for 3DS; it's called Blaster Master Zero (even in Japan) and it seems to be an amalgamation of Meta Fight and Blaster Master elements--the art design is very Meta Fight but the intro they showed on stream featured some frog-jumps-into-portal nonsense as well.

Oof. Though, as much as I dislike the frog silliness, I have to admit folks seem to remember it. If they get the tank platforming right I won't complain too much. >_>

[WelshMegalodon]

On the flipside, it's hard to take "serious" stories in 2D games seriously because the oftentimes cute graphics clash with the message, like if a TMNT episode tries to pontificate on the perils of war or some such. Games that aren't fully cute often have a goofy side to them, like the Contras and Metal Slugs.

Someone hasn't played Yume Miru Kusuri...

I know, I know, we're talking about relatively old 2D games on legacy hardware (which is why I'd direct you to EVE Burst Error, though even that is a mid- to late-90s game and newer than what you had in mind).