Movies you've just watched

[rancor]

Awww.. C'mon - Heat? Collateral? Last of the Mohicans? Some may even say Public Enemies, but I didn't care for it too much. I think he's done some fantastic work.

[Skykid]

Awww.. C'mon - Heat? Collateral? Last of the Mohicans? Some may even say Public Enemies, but I didn't care for it too much. I think he's done some fantastic work.

I think he's vastly overrated. I don't care for any of those much, except Day-Lewis's performance in Mohicans, but he can carry anything.

[rancor]

You have to admit, that he definitely has his moments...? I think the ambush / combat scene in Mohicans is one of the better battle scenes ever committed to film. I would compare it to some of the patrol boat scenes from Apocalypse Now. A long journey punctuated by insane, and well filmed action.

[Skykid]

I'd need to see it again. But yes, I think Mann's general failure is that he has some really good moments - like the Heat shootout - padded out by unremarkable to substandard film that often fails to create a satisfying whole. I feel he's verbose in style and flat in pace.

[rancor]

flat in pace.

I agree with this, but I also see "flat in pace" as a conscious styling. And I kinda like it. An example of this would be Collateral. I think the flat pacing works to the advantage of Tom Cruise's character, and establishes the mood and attitude. It fits perfectly with the character he is portraying. Would you say that this is the same style / pacing that was somewhat replicated in Drive (2011)?

[GaijinPunch]

I have this on my watch list on HBO GO. Just waiting for the right time. Heat was great. Don't listen to Skykid... maybe you have to be American to enjoy it? The bank heist alone makes it worth the price of admission. I liked Collateral as well. Not sure what the hell happened after that. Miami Vice had it's moments but didn't leave an impression. Ali as well.

I think it's worth noting that Mann's camera direction steals the show in just about all of his films. That's also pretty important since we're talking about fucking movies here. That's definitely what I thought when watching Manhunter. It had it's issues, but also merits as well. I never had a problem w/ pacing in any of his films... and story... well, they are mostly crime dramas. Not sure what anyone is expecting here.

[rancor]

I think it's worth noting that Mann's camera direction steals the show in just about all of his films. That's also pretty important since we're talking about fucking movies here.

You just said in two sentences what I tried to say in a paragraph.

[Skykid]

I feel like Mahunter is Mann's best film, and Miami Vice (original series) is his best contribution to anything. Thief I can't comment on. Heat is moving wallpaper with a superb heist sequence in the middle that is definitely worth the price of admission, just a shame about the rest.

His cinematography always struck me as good, but never high art. Too much gloss.

Miami Vice the movie is just a load of shit in every aspect.

I agree with this, but I also see "flat in pace" as a conscious styling.

Odd styling. Overlong or outstaying your welcome or losing the grip or the sense of motion or urgency tend to be failures in the editing room. The first half of Collateral is much better than the way it fizzles out.

[rancor]

Odd styling.

I feel that quite a few directors choose this, and oddly many of them are Russian.

But seriously - Ingmar Bergman? David Lynch? Terrence Malick (The Thin Red Line)? I think they have similar stylings.

[kaicooper]

just watched Event Horizon 1998
some says its underrated Gem..i dont think so
it has some good atmosphere but the plot is terrible
and there's many flaws..but was ok movie

6,8/10

[rancor]

I saw it in theaters. I liked it then. But much like Goldeneye (N64), I'm not sure it would hold up today. I certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone to see for the first time now..

[Xyga]

^ It's because it touches some horror thematics that are rarely exploited with visuals on film, even less so in the minuscule subcategory of b-grade space horror flicks.
Also the supposedly significantly more gruesome original cut was lost, adding to the cult.
But a 'gem', gah nope.

[Mischief Maker]

There was a real sense of malice and cruelty behind the set design and early spooky shit that I still think stands out today, and the part where they unscramble the video freaked the hell out of me as a teen, but the ending falls on its stupid 90s movie face with full-shot Sam Neil jumping around literally playing the devil.

I'd put Event Horizon in the same category of wildly uneven 90s experimental horror that really hits the marks in certain scenes as In the Mouth of Madness. "It's Mommy Day!"

[Skykid]

Odd styling.

I feel that quite a few directors choose this, and oddly many of them are Russian.

But seriously - Ingmar Bergman? David Lynch? Terrence Malick (The Thin Red Line)? I think they have similar stylings.

Christ, I think we're a bit off the understanding of the sentiment here! Don't lump masters in with Mann. Malick is perhaps a closer bedfellow.

My point was that his editing dictates his pacing, and it doesn't always work for the better. He's no Lynch or Bergman in any lifetime.

[Zen]

There was a real sense of malice and cruelty behind the set design and early spooky shit that I still think stands out today, and the part where they unscramble the video freaked the hell out of me as a teen, but the ending falls on its stupid 90s movie face with full-shot Sam Neil jumping around literally playing the devil.

I'd put Event Horizon in the same category of wildly uneven 90s experimental horror that really hits the marks in certain scenes as In the Mouth of Madness. "It's Mommy Day!"

Nail on the head, in my opinion.
The sanity destroying chaos of the void is strong in this film. "Horror" with a capital "H". The unscrambled vid was the real "DooM" film and smiling innocent faced Sam Neil does pure evil like no other

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Michael Mann also directed the 1983 released "The Keep" as well -- tis a shame that's never been properly released on DVD/Blu-Ray formats to this very day (Paramount Studios had plans to release it on DVD format back in 2004 but it was axed). From what I recall, there's a longer cut clocking at 3 hours plus but it was edited down to it 96 minutes in duration for time's sake in the theatrical version. Tanergine Dream did the cool background music for The Keep indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[rapoon]

I feel like Mahunter is Mann's best film, and Miami Vice (original series)...

Outside of his role as producer, I'm not sure how much of a role he played in the series. For years I mistakenly thought he directed and wrote most episodes.
Thief has a lot in common w/ Manhunter: it's raw, gritty, experimental. You would probably like it.

I disagree w/ your opinion of Heat (over the years, this has been discussed 3-4 times ). Since they were brought up: Heat, A Thin Red Line, Last of the Mohicans are all about an hour too long. they're all carried by one excellent performance (Pacino in Heat. yea, I know you'll disagree), and they all have phenomenal scores (i.e. remove the Melanesian Choir tracks from A Thin Red Line, and the spiritual and humanistic elements of Caviezels narration fall apart) that plays an enormous role in the 'emotional reception'. Mohicans - The Gael, Heat - God Moving.... (should have also used 'when it's cold i'd like to die'). Lack of music, when appropriate, as well (Heat shootout).

I'm rewatching If.... tonight. Anyone seen it?

[GaijinPunch]

You just said in two sentences what I tried to say in a paragraph.

#CameraNerd

Michael Mann also directed the 1983 released "The Keep" as well -- tis a shame that's never been properly released on DVD/Blu-Ray formats to this very day (Paramount Studios had plans to release it on DVD format back in 2004 but it was axed). From what I recall, there's a longer cut clocking at 3 hours plus but it was edited down to it 96 minutes in duration for time's sake in the theatrical version. Tanergine Dream did the cool background music for The Keep indeed.
PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Which brings me to another point: Mann is far more conscious of good scoring than his contemporaries... like, they should take lessons from him. I won't argue more than someone like Lynch (but I do like his selection for score better than Lynch's, which is not meant to downplay the dope ass sound in Lynch films). I will say Lynch shows a bit more variety in the audio department... but his films are also all over the place in theme, so that's expected.

So, take home points: We've got
-excellent framing,
-excellent sound,
-action where it's needed, the quality of which has been used by military outfits as education material.
-somehow... substandard pacing.

Dunno... I guess I'm glad I don't understand pacing.

[kaicooper]

Mouth of Madness. "It's Mommy Day!"

Mouth of Madness criminally underrated

[kaicooper]

just finished watching Ouija: Origin of Evil
i never watched first cus i felt its pure shit..just like the rest Hollyood horror
movies this generation..but this prequal was good honestly..young actress has amazing performance..no jump scares, no gore
yea 3rd ACT was in rush and cleche little bit but at least better then most horror movies
these days..

7/10

[Zen]

Mouth of Madness criminally underrated

Didn't do much for me I'm afraid but that theme song, so fuckin sweet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjJ_uFz-Z9g

[emphatic]

I don't like Mann's films much. Collateral was ok. But Miami Vice for TV was genius.

I did see a fanedit of Heat though that was very nice (Heat – The Action Re-Cut) that removes almost all drama scenes from the original movie for true crime movie experience. The audience can also choose their preferred ending.

[copy-paster]

Alien vs Predator

Not as bad as people say, I liked it. The use of practical+CG combo is good (though some of the CG result are really bad) and I don't know if this one and Predator movies are actually canon to Alien universe.

[rancor]

He's no Lynch or Bergman in any lifetime.

I wasn't trying to say that at all. Just that at times, they have some similar styles in their direction. I wouldn't put Mann on the same level as either of them. He makes enjoyable films, knows how to create tension, and can make a helluva combat scene. Several instances of beautiful cinematography. I wouldn't consider him one of the "greats", but I do believe he is a master of his craft.

[kaicooper]

its time to watch it..my first time

Requiem For A Dream Directors.Cut

[Mischief Maker]

its time to watch it..my first time

Requiem For A Dream Directors.Cut

The best movie I've ever regretted watching.

[boagman]

Mann's being sold short by some, here, I think. While I don't much care for "Collateral", that's mainly due to my distaste for Cruise and Foxx more than anything else. Unlike with an all-time classic like "Fight Club", the material and production simply cannot overcome the red flags of the two actors, for me at least.

Mann's done some really good work, though, like "Heat", "The Insider", and while I've never seen it, I'm told "Ali" was quite the movie, too. Just no interest in the subject matter, I guess.

He's got a pretty solid body of work if you look at the entirety of his career. I even liked "Robbery Homicide Division" on television way back when. It was dripping with his influence, and while it didn't succeed, ratings-wise, I thought it was done well overall.

[GaijinPunch]

its time to watch it..my first time

Requiem For A Dream Directors.Cut

The best movie I've ever regretted watching.

Not an easy one...

[kaicooper]

Requiem for a Dream

finally watched it .. what can i say
Darren Aronofsky made one of the most Best Fucked up movie
truly Masterpiece..u just need to watch it once ..its enough ..i dont think
i'll ever forget it..SOUNDTRACK IS PURE ART

9.5/10

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't understand what we're talking about here, persona or acting ability? They're two completely different things.

Exactly my point - I think it's easy to confuse celebration of acting ability with results on film, and I think you concede the argument when you give Chan a pass but not Statham (correctly, of course). We have people who'd vote for (insert international pariah here) and we have people who think that Statham's one-dimensional tough guy act has star power. So be it! They will continue to rake in money hand over first, and I'm sure old Mickey Rourke will be in it too.

The jab about Statham needing an acting double goes both ways. You can't just insert an acting double for Chan or Lee (and it clearly didn't help in Game of Death, though that's a bad example), and I think we agree there are films where the acting is not the most important part.

Note that I'm not taking a jab at your observations about Statham missing his cues, not controlling his eyes, missing his mark, whatever else he's doing; nor am I upset with the idea that it would be better if he really did have some acting ability. But the SAG isn't going to waive dues because somebody is a "stunt" actor rather than an "actor" actor, y'know?

In truth I just have this funny image of my head of Skykid walking down the street and critiquing random people on acting ability.