High End, Affordable Capture Card Recommendation

[RGB0b]

I'm currently using the USB3HDCAP: https://www.startech.com/AV/Converters/ ... ~USB3HDCAP

It's done great for me in the past, but it doesn't support 4:4:4 RGB color and the drivers for it aren't perfect. I'm looking to upgrade, but I don't want to spend much more then the USB3HDCAP cost. I was wondering if there's anything out there that does what I need, for a decent price. If not, should I just wait until the end of the year and see what's out there?:

Requirements:
- USB 3.0
- 240p RGB input (RGBs or RGBHV...doesn't matter)
- 1080p60 (although 4K would be nice)
- Compatible with the OSSC
- Full color support, including 4:4:4 RGB

I've seen a few things that might work, but they're all PCIe. Maybe we can keep this thread as a record of all the capture cards that would fall under these requirements, as I imagine many people in the retro gaming community would want something similar.

[NJRoadfan]

High end usually doesn't equate to affordable. Off hand, I know the Epiphan DVI2USB 3.0 (list $699US) meets the above requirements.

[FBX]

Off hand, I know the Epiphan DVI2USB 3.0 (list $699US) meets the above requirements.

I think it only goes down to 640x480 (unless I'm not reading the tech specs correctly). Edit: says something about custom resolutions, so maybe it can go to 240.

[RGB0b]

Thanks for the recommendation! I just bought one off eBay for $200 and I'll let everyone know how it works after I receive it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201786067538

[FBX]

Thanks for the recommendation! I just bought one off eBay for $200 and I'll let everyone know how it works after I receive it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201786067538

Nice score for $200!

[NJRoadfan]

The included drivers should allow custom resolutions including 240p, see my post about their DVI2PCIe card. By default, the driver comes pre-programmed with VESA video modes and you will see 240p video as 480i. You can easily create a custom resolution to capture 240p60 video. Just be mindful that the capture device will not handle switching between 240p and 480i, those transitions will have to be fixed in post production (the capture will be entirely 240p60).

[RGB0b]

Thank you for the advice! I assume I should just use the latest drivers from here?: https://www.epiphan.com/products/dvi2us ... downloads/

Do you have a link to your post, just for reference? Also, I assume for YPbPr capture, I'd need to use one of my component-to-VGA converters like the GARO or Key Digital.

[lettuce]

Dont mean to hijack the thread but what options are there for standalone (doesnt need PC) capture card that can do 1080p/60? (or higher)

[RGB0b]

I'd actually like to know that too. I don't expect full RGB color space support, but the ability for both 240p and 1080p60 would be awesome.

[Guspaz]

There aren't a lot of options for that, as that's starting to get into the realm of pro AV gear. The few consumer options that can do standalone recording are mostly limited to 720p60 or 1080p30 or the like. The solutions from Hauppage, StarTech, ambery, and AverMedia are all both limited to 1080p30, for example. Heck, even a lot of the pro gear has the same restriction, although that's because TV and live stuff tends to be 1080i60, and film stuff is usually ~24FPS.

The cheapest recorder that I can find is this BlackMagic unit:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ssist.html

It's $495 USD, but unlike all the other pro gear around that pricepoint, does 1080p60 instead of 1080p30.

Note, however: you will require a VERY large and VERY fast SD card. This device (like most pro gear) records to Apple ProRes, and Apple ProRes 422 HQ at 1080p60 is 440 megabits per second. Most SD cards can't write that fast, and even a 256GB card that can write that fast will only hold ~80 minutes of video.

Yeah, you can drop the bitrate by using a lower quality version of ProRes, but ProRes (like all pro codecs) does not supper inter-frame compression: like MJPEG, every frame is compressed independently, hence the huge bitrate.

I would be very happy if somebody could prove me wrong and point out some 1080p60 standalone consumer recording gear.

EDIT: Pricing reference for SD cards using Sandisk, only the Extreme Pro series is fast enough (the Ultra and Extreme are both rated at writes below the required 55MB/s). A 256GB Extreme Pro SD card (80 minutes) can be found for $130 USD, while a 512GB card (160 minutes) is $300 USD.

[RGB0b]

Woah, that one looks really cool! Out of curiosity, do you know of a standalone that's 720p60 and cheaper? For me personally, the standalone wouldn't need to be 1080p.

[Guspaz]

I think most of the standalone consumer brands that I mentioned make devices that do 720p60?

I've not used the BlackMagic device, it was just the cheapest one I could find. IIRC the only pro recording gear I've used personally is the Ki Pro and the Ki Pro Mini, neither of which do 1080p60. They have versions that do, but they cost several thousand dollars.

[Fudoh]

The Live Gamer Portable 2 unit (Avermedia) is able to record in 1080p60 in PC-free mode. Compared to recording via USB the bitrate is a bit limited, but it seems ok. Youtube has a quite a few 1080p60 demo recordings.

[Guspaz]

Looks like it just came out very recently, seems like a pretty decent option.

[Fudoh]

The only down side to Avermedia in general is that the compatibility with the off-spec refresh rates isn't great (e.g. when recording through a Framemeister). Videos turn out considerably more choppy than those recorded on Elgato hardware.

[NJRoadfan]

Thank you for the advice! I assume I should just use the latest drivers from here?: https://www.epiphan.com/products/dvi2us ... downloads/

Do you have a link to your post, just for reference? Also, I assume for YPbPr capture, I'd need to use one of my component-to-VGA converters like the GARO or Key Digital.

Yep, those are the drivers. There is a switch for YPbPr capture, no need to convert externally. Thread is here: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58375

[lettuce]

The Live Gamer Portable 2 unit (Avermedia) is able to record in 1080p60 in PC-free mode. Compared to recording via USB the bitrate is a bit limited, but it seems ok. Youtube has a quite a few 1080p60 demo recordings.

I think i read also that the SD card has to be formatted to FAT32, so that means only 4GB file size...not sure why on earth they went FAT32 over NTFS!?

[NJRoadfan]

They use FAT32 because the NTFS file system (along with exFAT) are patent encumbered and require a license to implement.

[lettuce]

They use FAT32 because the NTFS file system (along with exFAT) are patent encumbered and require a license to implement.

Really?, well your not going to be able to capture much gameplay footage if your limited to just 4GB, most of my captures are like 18GB large

[FBX]

They use FAT32 because the NTFS file system (along with exFAT) are patent encumbered and require a license to implement.

Really?, well your not going to be able to capture much gameplay footage if your limited to just 4GB, most of my captures are like 18GB large

Perhaps capture devices know to split the files? All my video camcorders do this, and I just splice them back together in editing.

[lettuce]

They use FAT32 because the NTFS file system (along with exFAT) are patent encumbered and require a license to implement.

Really?, well your not going to be able to capture much gameplay footage if your limited to just 4GB, most of my captures are like 18GB large

Perhaps capture devices know to split the files? All my video camcorders do this, and I just splice them back together in editing.

I guess, is there no losted footage at the point where one file ends and the other starts?

[Guspaz]

Some recorders are known to drop a few frames at the intersection between files. I know the kipro has (or had? Might have fixed it in a firmware update) this problem.

[FBX]

I guess, is there no lost footage at the point where one file ends and the other starts?

I can't speak for capture devices, but I know all 3 of my camcorders have seamless file intersections.

[linko9]

Anyone know anything or have any experience with the epiphan VGA2USB?

https://www.epiphan.com/products/vga2usb/tech-specs/

Specifically, can it do 240p and if so, would it be able to get 60fps? 28fps is advertised for 480p, but I wonder if you can get 60 with such a small resolution. Also, the VGA format says RGB with H and V sync, so for a device with SCART output with csync, would a SCART > VGA cable effectively split the sync signal, or is that more complicated? Basically I want a good, cheap way to capture my SNES outputting in RGB.

[Fudoh]

Specifically, can it do 240p and if so, would it be able to get 60fps? 28fps is advertised for 480p, but I wonder if you can get 60 with such a small resolution.

it's uncompressed video over USB2. You can't get 60fps. All the USB2 devices have been replaced with USB3 units (which retrorgb just bought, so just wait for his impressions). The DVI ones are DVI-I, so they accept VGA as well.

I have the DVI2USB 3.0 as well, just didn't find the time to tinker with it yet....

[RGB0b]

I got the card and started testing. There's some weird results:

- SNES doesn't seem to be compatible with it. The picture won't show up at all in 240p and through the OSSC (both linedouble and linetriple) it's a really shaky, off-centered image, regardless of what OSSC settings I tweak. It almost seems like there's an HSync issue. I even tried with the HDRetrovision cables through the OSSC, as well as a second RGB cable just to make sure it wasn't a cable issue. Here's a video, but YouTube seems to have smoothed it out a bit...it's way worse in the original capture: https://youtu.be/nJaM5DeTTOY

- 240p seems to be treated as 480i as previously reported, but I couldn't force it to 240p.

- RGBs or RGBHV didn't seem to matter, which is good.

- Csync only; Luma as sync wouldn't work. No big deal, that's common with most capture cards.

- Component video doesn't work. I tried one of those 3xRCA to VGA adapters that route it through the RGB pins, but I didn't get a signal at all. There's no switch on the device itself, but maybe there's a setting I can toggle in the software?

- Forcing resolutions of any kind didn't seem to work. I created a 320x240p60 profile and unchecked the other stock profiles, but it made no difference. Also, whenever I go back into the menu, the profile I created is wrong.

I'm assuming all the issues I'm running into are my fault. Can anyone help me get this figured out? SNES is an integral part of my testing, so if that's not working (both in 240p and through the OSSCx3), then I can't use the card. I hope I get it working though...it's really easy to use and the captures that did work seem very high quality.

[RGB0b]

I'm sorry to bump my own thread, but if I can't get this working I'll have to return it. Does anyone have any suggestions for SNES, or to force 240p (vs 480i)?

[NJRoadfan]

Unfortunately I don't have any cables to connect my SNES to my DVI2PCIe at the moment to test, but you need to create a custom VGA mode in order to capture 240p sources. I have had problems doing this directly from the Epiphan capture software (settings wouldn't stick), so I had to go into Windows Control Panel and then the Epiphan Frame Grabber contrl panel. Select your device and change to "Maintain Device Specific Configuration" and then select "Configure Device". Go to the VGA Modes tab:



Uncheck "Standard VGA Modes" so the device doesn't attempt interlaced capture by default. Check off "Custom VGA Modes" Click the "+" sign next to it to bring up this dialog:



Uncheck "Standard VESA timings" and "interlace" if checked. To start, set actual frequncy to "60", horizontal pixels to "720" and vertical lines to "240". Click "OK" and you should get a picture in your capture application. The above settings were used to get my 240p Apple IIgs (has a higher dot clock then the SNES) working with the DVI2PCIe. Its likely many of these settings can be taken/derived from here to get an optimal capture: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Optimal_timings

You can fine tune the capture (centering, pixel phase) using the Adjustments tab in real time after that (you have to click apply each time you change a setting). Also note, your resulting video will be captured at 240 pixels high, you have to resize the video post capture to 480 pixels high, optionally adding scan lines.

[RGB0b]

Thanks so much for taking the time to post that! You were right - Forcing the modes in the control panel worked, but through the main software it didn't. I was able to force a 240p capture and everything is working a lot better.

SNES still barely works though, either directly, or through the OSSC. I messed with the horizontal adjustments in the menu and was able to tweak it a bit, but it's still not usable. Is there some specific, exact timing I need to use? Here's some video of the issue. I just quickly stuck a 720p window into a 1080p canvas in OBS...this wasn't a "quality" test, I just wanted to show Genesis working perfect and SNES' issues:

https://youtu.be/KuB2UYjhAHw
https://youtu.be/j1vYixOdQxw

Also, the software stopped being able to record video (now it's giving me a random codec error), but luckily the changes you make in the control panel apply to any software you use. I was using OBS for basic testing, but is there a better software someone could recommend? Actually, is OBS with the correct settings good enough?

[Guspaz]

Did you try matching up the timing to what the OSSC reports? I think it should be around 60.0985 Hz and 262 total lines, if I understand things correctly.