Looking forward to "NX"? (aka The Switch Thread)

[pestro87]

Ultra Super Turbo anyone?

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... t+fighter2

This is pretty much the only thing that got me interested in the system. The pixel mode looks great, I wasn't a fan of the HDR visual style. I hope that they won't make silly changes like they did with HDR. Ultimately, whether or not I'm going to get a Switch for this game depends entirely on whether or not there are decent fight sticks available and whether or not the online is good.

Other than Ultra SF2, the only other games that got me somewhat interested in the system are the new SMT game and Project Octopath Traveler but I need to see more of those two games.

[HydrogLox]

its still too expensive against a ps4 slim, which itself has a pretty low spec by todays standards.

Comparing apples and oranges. The Switch could be a ton cheaper without a touch display, battery, low power mode, and not having to be compact - the PS4 has a Blu-ray drive; i.e. compare the launch prices of the PS Vita and PS TV - same type of idea.

Also for the 2013 launch a $399 PS4 cost $381 to manufacture. It took 2.5 more years before Sony finally made a profit again after being 3 years in the red (and the overall health of the corporation is still unclear). So it could be argued that the PS4 price wasn't really sustainable. It's well known that Nintendo doesn't like to work with margins that narrow. That's why they can weather a non-success like the Wii U.

Does anyone think the device will actually be used as a portable handheld outside the home in the same manner as a ds or vita? Would anyone here really take a device the size of a wii u gamepad outside on public transport?

Frankly leaving it in the dock would be a waste - though some people will do it; in some way that would be comparable to buying a PSP Go in 2009, setting it up in a dock, hooking it up to the TV and using a DS3 to play it - I suppose it is possible that someone used it exclusively that way but that isn't what it was designed for.

I think it's also a bit of a push to call the launch package a "hybrid" - it may be a tablet/controller "hybrid" but for the time being I don't see the console/handheld "hybrid" - it's simply more of a handheld that can be connected to the TV. Somebody at Nvidia would probably know whether becoming a console/handheld "hybrid" is actually on the Switch roadmap. It's already known that there is USB Type-C connector at the base of the unit. So there is the expectation that it will support the USB 3.1 protocol with a theoretical maximum of 5 (Gen 1) or 10 Gbit/s (Gen 2) data signalling rate. However Apple also implements the (theoretical maximum) 40 Gbit/s Thunderbolt 3 protocol over a USB Type-C connector. So it is conceivable that Nvidia could implement something like NVLink over that connector to a second, external GPU for console operation - for me that's when it would become a console/handheld hybrid - of course it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the eGPU dock would be 1/3-2/3 of the price of the launch package.

[mamboFoxtrot]

whether or not I'm going to get a Switch for this game depends entirely on whether or not there are decent fight sticks available

C'mon Pestro, ya gotta think with INNOVATION. Hold the left JoyCon upright and let the motion controls simulate a joystick. A broken, floating joystick, but a joystick! Then use your right hand fingers like you would with two rows of arcade buttons, but use the camera on the other JoyCon to read your "button inputs". I mean, that could totally work, right???

ARMs seems like exactly the kind of stupid fun I can get behind. EVO tournament w/ player cam plz.

Seeing Mario run around in a city with realistic humans gives me bad Sonic '06 flashbacks, but otherwise I'm looking forward to it.

Hopefully the Mario Kart 8 update won't be a full-price game, given that stuff like actual battle stages should've been in regular MK8 to begin with.


As for the hardware, the touch-capacity seems like a complete waste of battery life if it's only usable when "undocked", but maybe I'm just not thinking about "apps" enough. I'm still iffy about these pissant JoyCon things, though the straps look like they improve things a little. I'd say I'm curious about how the more unique features of the controllers will be used, but I think we've seen enough Nintendo consoles/hardware at this point to just go ahead and say it will be for nothing interesting outside of a few fun tech demo minigames.
Nintendo better really improve their online functionalities if they want anyone to pay for it.

[pestro87]

^LOL, that would be so Nintendo. "Shoryukens have never been this easy to execute"

[konmai]

Would anyone here really take a device the size of a wii u gamepad outside on public transport?

Well that's what's shown in the initial trailer. In fact according to that trailer you could even score a pussy or two that way. suck on it vitards!!

[Xyga]

@HydrogLox: consumers don't have to know nor care about how much its costs to manufacture etc, it's not their problem.
If a manufacturer has to ask the public to put themselves in their shoes to understand and justify the price(s), then the strategy is already more or less a failure.

I said I believe more than once, that there would be again a lot of confusion with that machine (which is a damn bad thing for a new product), see how many people were percieving it as a portable device and now it's out and it obvious isn't, people have a problem dealing with it.
In particular understanding the prices, after people have spent months identifing it as a mid-range tablet. Why ?

Because when buying a new console people value its technical ability, if it's got the most powerful hardware on the market at the time of release, they will be able to cope with the high price of the device itself, and the games also.

In the case of the Switch it seems it's not the processing hardware that justifies the pricing, don't deny it it's a mid-range gaming tablet at best period. So rather it's all the stuff around with the #X Nintendo conceptual thingy with gamepads and screens management sucking a good % of the bill, whether its from Nintendo or the Customer at the end on the chain.
Tough. I admire Nintendo's faith in their profitable gimmicks generating skills, but it hasn't exactly worked fine outside of the Wii and the dual screen handhelds.

The Switch is a revisited Wii U, it appears to be better and more desirable, but fuck that's an immense risk they're taking.
It would probably have been okay if it had been released much earlier before Sony and Microsoft dropped their prices so low their machines now look like excellent and 'natural' deals in front of an entirely new but 'off' just released console;
In other words as I see it, once again Nintendo are asking customers to be okay with a hardware behind the competition in terms of power and third party games, and enjoy the fact they're paying for the expensive parts of the 'concept' (including the cartridges price apparently, which seem to cost a lot if your theory about their margins is true).

I want them to succeed this time, but if they don't want to make sacrifices to give their product more appeal, they're gonna fail again.
We'll see after Xmas how it went.

[neorichieb1971]

I agree. After Xmas next year its fate will be sealed.


I'll buy the console when the inevitable Mario bundle comes out in November. By the time that happens, the pro controller will feel like its been added into the bundle compared to todays prices.

I might buy the Bomberman game at launch though.

[Xyga]

I'll add - and of course this is entirely speculation - that I feel they may be avoiding being more competitive and not taking risks on purpose, because they don't plan to make the Switch the heaviest center of gravity of their video games business.

After all the press rumor says Nintendo make considerable profit with shit like the NES Mini, so maybe they're reserving a non-negligible portion of their ressources for say, the SNES Mini.
(I said somewhere that if they re-released the SNES today it would be a huge success, fuck me right ?)

So, not making the Switch a major player on purpose could be their strategy, if it turns to be true the people with high expectations will eat their hats (onece more).

[BryanM]

Does anyone think the device will actually be used as a portable handheld outside the home in the same manner as a ds or vita? Would anyone here really take a device the size of a wii u gamepad outside on public transport?

....

...

It's about a couple inches longer than a Vita, that's about it.

[Skykid]

I'd use a Switch almost exclusively in its portable/handheld format, of that I'm positive.

[Xyga]

Surely it is well possible to shove an extrenal backup battery in a backpack/pocket.

(forget about getting laid tho)

[neorichieb1971]

Well i'm the opposite. I have no interest in using the Switch on the move. Since the games I will want will be 3-6-9 months apart I am sure I can get by with just my TV.

Its a shame people have to buy the whole thing. They should have sold the console in the same way as the add-ons.


TV dock without screen - £200
TV dock with screen - £279

Handheld only - £180

or something like that.

[Mischief Maker]

It's about a couple inches longer than a Vita, that's about it.

Well as someone who used to constantly commute, the two greatest handhelds of all time were the GBA SP and the DS (never bought a 3DS) because of the durable clamshell design. I did have a PSP briefly and beyond the constant crashing and some fuck potentially hacking my credit card info from the Playstation network, I was constantly in fear of damaging the screen and exposed controls during the hustle and bustle of flying.

The DS or GBA SP you just have to snap shut and slip it in your pocket and everything's safe and ready to go.

The switch looks like the worst of all worlds. Fragile, too big and awkward for your pockets, underpowered for a home system.

I really doubt any attractive 20-somethings would bring it to a rooftop party.

[BryanM]

I feel the same way about having to invest in parachute pockets and a case, even after waiting to pick it up refurbished 2.5 years from now.

Here's hoping to a Switch Micro model.

TV dock without screen - £200
TV dock with screen - £279
Handheld only - £180

Or the same exact product they have right now, minus the massively overpriced dock that saves you a couple seconds of stressful plugging-in-a-cable stress, and minus the removable waggle wands - for $150 after the two price cuts eventually kick in.

They really put a lot into features that only get used in a few party games, don't they.

[tomwhite2004]

Or the same exact product they have right now, minus the massively overpriced dock that saves you a couple seconds of stressful plugging-in-a-cable stress

If the specs are correct them having the unit docked gives an additional 40% clock speed increase, its not just a fancy hdmi connector.

[HydrogLox]

I like portably versions of Fast RMX (basically Fast Racing Neo) and Redout.

There is some demo footage of Fast RMX - New Zendling from the Iridium Cup (Future Pack DLC) with some new skins for the craft; and you are right - so far this looks like "Fast Racing Neo Portable". OK but I think I prefer the gameplay of Formula Fusion - not that it's likely to ever have a portable version.

massively overpriced dock

Seeing that for $90 (dock, power supply, HDMI cable) was a bit of a stunner.

If the specs are correct them having the unit docked gives an additional 40% clock speed increase, its not just a fancy hdmi connector.

At this point the dock is just a piece of plastic and a connector. The performance increase results from the handheld going into normal power mode when it's connected to the power supply. Laptops are typically configured to work the same way. Disconnected the handheld goes into low power mode to maximize battery life.

Its a shame people have to buy the whole thing. They should have sold the console in the same way as the add-ons.

I suppose Nintendo wants to maintain the option of "hybrid usage", e.g. edit your Super Mario Maker level with the tablet and play the level on the console - but basically it's a growing problem with all-in-one devices and services - we inevitably end up paying for the parts (and time) we don't use.

[tomwhite2004]

At this point the dock is just a piece of plastic and a connector. The performance increase results from the handheld going into normal power mode when it's connected to the power supply. Laptops are typically configured to work the same way. Disconnected the handheld goes into low power mode to maximize battery life.

Fair enough, so it is just a overpriced hdmi / power connector! I mistakenly thought that it would have extra cooling etc to help increase performance. I do like the fact that it protects the unit when not in use but again that could easily be done with a cheap case.

[neorichieb1971]

I believe its a modular design of processing power. With dock it adds a lot of extra processing power that a TV needs on the big screen. Its obvious when you detach the dock and work only with the handheld assets that the power required decreases dramatically because the eye sore degradation isn't noticable at 10 inches.

[HydrogLox]

I mistakenly thought that it would have extra cooling etc to help increase performance.

There were some rumors to that effect - but from what I recall the cooling fan ended up in the handheld itself. In fact based on the patent that Nintendo filed I suspect that the launch package doesn't reflect their original vision. The patent suggests "processor(s)" and "memory" in a "supplemental computing device" - which could be interpreted as a supplemental or dedicated GPU for console operation. That configuration would probably have cost us$500 (or more - and still not been at the Xbox One/PS4 capability level). So it looks to me that the us$300 price point is ultimately responsible for the compromise that is launching in March - not a handheld-console hybrid but a handheld at the cost of a console.

EDIT:

Fair enough, so it is just a overpriced hdmi / power connector!

Hmmm ... then again USB type C to HDMI adapters can get pretty pricey.

[neorichieb1971]

Could Nintendo bring out a new dock in the future which is powerful for 4k applications? Perhaps this thing is more future proof than you realize?

[Xyga]

Wait for the unofficial accessories, probably better and more affordable.

[HydrogLox]

Could Nintendo bring out a new dock in the future which is powerful for 4k applications?

Hypothetically yes - but eventually the CPU in the handheld just would become the bottleneck, requiring supplemental external CPUs (increasing data traffic on the USB type C connector) escalating the price for the updated dock ... and people are already complaining about a us$300 base unit.

Also conceptually it would be a bit disingenuous of Nintendo to tell us that we don't need the highest spec hardware to play games and then turn around and make 4K an essential part of the gaming experience. But I think there is room for improvement in the 1080p department.

[neorichieb1971]

Could Nintendo bring out a new dock in the future which is powerful for 4k applications?

Hypothetically yes - but eventually the CPU in the handheld just would become the bottleneck, requiring supplemental external CPUs (increasing data traffic on the USB type C connector) escalating the price for the updated dock ... and people are already complaining about a us$300 base unit.

Also conceptually it would be a bit disingenuous of Nintendo to tell us that we don't need the highest spec hardware to play games and then turn around and make 4K an essential part of the gaming experience. But I think there is room for improvement in the 1080p department.

After 5 years or so I think people would like an upgrade option rather than a new console. Since 1990 nobody has given 2 thoughts that none of the controllers were backwards compatible with older systems.

If the hardware is scale able i'd go with that than a new console. What is special about PS4 compared to PS3 in terms of what it does? It just has 3 or 4 more new options on the controller and it outputs in 1080 native. I'm not sure that people will keep on buying new consoles that just offer baby step upgrades on games.

[trap15]

If that's your only takeaway from changes between ps3 and ps4, you could easily say the same about ps1 to ps4. Why bother, they're basically the same, right?

[neorichieb1971]

If any hardware manufacturer makes something that has capability of going from 1080HD to 4k, can stop overlapping purchasing of items that otherwise perform 90% of the same functionality I think thats a good thing.

Nintendo have made a docking system. If replacing the dock in 5 years time is relatively easy why not go that route?

Sony have always built a brand new box on each iteration of their consoles. But yeah, in my eyes the gameplay is regurgitated and the functionality of games that I want to indulge in compromises of shooting fireballs in Street fighter, having 8 player bomberman competitions and indulging in 1st party titles which graphically look extravagant.

Just for Bomberman on a new console, thats about $400 worth of controllers. Its ridiculous.

I don't need all the bells and whistles pushed on me by hardware manufacturers. The only things i've appreciated since PS1 are rumble, analog input and online multiplayer. All the other stuff is just fluff.


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[Strider77]

Why the hell is the normal controllers 70.00 dollars?

The Wii U similar specs don't surprise me (but I still think that is a dumb move).... but the 3 hour battery life did surprise me (yeah I get if you are playing a SNES game it'll last longer).

[trap15]

The same reason other consoles' controllers are $70.

[neorichieb1971]

The controllers are expensive because they have tons of gimmicks in them which only 2 pieces of software will ever use.

That ARMS game and that 1 on 1 shooting game I couldn't care less about.



In other news, what does the software card look like? And what are the transfer times like compared to bluray discs?

[ZellSF]

The same reason other consoles' controllers are $70.

Other consoles' controllers are $60.

[HydrogLox]

Apparently the Pro Controller also contains an NFC sensor so you don't have to get up and walk over to the docked device to use your Nintendo Amiibo (plural)
In essence you have to pay more so Nintendo can sell you more junk. Though they are probably also going to argue that their rumble is "HD" compared to the other controllers.