Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Fudoh]

VSC + RGB interface is extremely hard to setup properly. In the long run you won't have too much fun with that. Emotia is great, but as the UVC extremely hard to find.

If the Genius II is too expensive for you, I would go for an iScan HD/HD+ instead. You still need a cheap RGB interface up front (not behind the iScan) to convert RGBHV to RGBs, but in general it's a very user-friendly setup.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... n&start=30

Somebody else has to confirm the 31khz input capability for RGBs sources.

[Sid]

Hey Everyone!

So I've gotten the opportunity to get a used JVC TM-1700G from work (I work in Post-Production) for basically the cost of a cab ride home. Looking at the monitor and online, it looks like it only takes Composite and S-Video inputs, which no slot for a component or SDI card . However, I'm going to to be using this for my SNES, which is currently connected via composite to my 50" plasma (Panasonic st60, so not only is it muddy looking, the input lag is awful.) is it worth the $45 or so cab ride for this use, or should I bite the bullet and get a real deal RGB capable CRT?

I have a few pro JVCs, not all of them with the RGB/component card. At S-Video quality they are still very nice to look at. I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to pick it up. I would be surprised if they made some of them with no option for the upgrade card though.

Also, that model in particular is very compact for it's screen size, and not all that heavy. Depending on the efficiency of your public transport, I'd be tempted to suggest that you could even go that way for transit, and get it for literally no cost.

[Blair]

Somebody else has to confirm the 31khz input capability for RGBs sources.

I can confirm 31khz (480p and DTV) Input via RGBs works fine on both The HD and HD+

Spoiler

[Einzelherz]

Hey Everyone!

So I've gotten the opportunity to get a used JVC TM-1700G from work (I work in Post-Production) for basically the cost of a cab ride home. Looking at the monitor and online, it looks like it only takes Composite and S-Video inputs, which no slot for a component or SDI card . However, I'm going to to be using this for my SNES, which is currently connected via composite to my 50" plasma (Panasonic st60, so not only is it muddy looking, the input lag is awful.) is it worth the $45 or so cab ride for this use, or should I bite the bullet and get a real deal RGB capable CRT?

The ST60 should do nice with an RGB-YUV converter, but it reads the signal as 480i and interlaces it. At normal distance and a not too fast moving screen, it's good. My S60 doesn't have very much lag, like 1 frame iirc.

The monitor is worth it unless you have many others falling into your lap, or can't find a good consumer CRT. E.g. if local Craigslist has some nice JVC's available, I'd get one of those instead, along with the RGB converter.

[IceMax]

[quote="Sid""]
I have a few pro JVCs, not all of them with the RGB/component card. At S-Video quality they are still very nice to look at. I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to pick it up. I would be surprised if they made some of them with no option for the upgrade card though.

Also, that model in particular is very compact for it's screen size, and not all that heavy. Depending on the efficiency of your public transport, I'd be tempted to suggest that you could even go that way for transit, and get it for literally no cost.[/quote]

Yeah, it looks like it doesn't have the slot on the back to put the RGB card weirdly enough, but I'll prob be taking off the back and taking a peek juuuuuust to be sure. For now I have S-Video SNES cables coming tomorrow, so well see how it performs!

I was also quite surprised at its compactness and lightness for a CRT when I picked it up! Sadly, the closest subway stop is almost a mile away, so cab was the only practical option

[Blair]

here's some 240p gameplay shots I took of the XRGB-1+iScan HD on a Sony e400 CRT outputting at 1080p. looks and plays great. those processors almost feel like they were made for each other. only downside is no 480i pass-through into the iScan as it handles interlaced content a bit better than the XRGB-1. (but not as fast).


Sega Genesis 2 with 32X add on, SCART RGB output

[fafangus]

Hey Everyone!

So I've gotten the opportunity to get a used JVC TM-1700G from work (I work in Post-Production) for basically the cost of a cab ride home. Looking at the monitor and online, it looks like it only takes Composite and S-Video inputs, which no slot for a component or SDI card . However, I'm going to to be using this for my SNES, which is currently connected via composite to my 50" plasma (Panasonic st60, so not only is it muddy looking, the input lag is awful.) is it worth the $45 or so cab ride for this use, or should I bite the bullet and get a real deal RGB capable CRT?

I've got a JVC TM-H1950CG CRT with the RGB input card, all I want to say is that monitor is a beast, quite looking as a BVM, very sharp (in RGB), Picked up for 70€ here in France, I use it paired with an extron rgb, to boost my long rgbs cable, or direct from the rgbs of the console (snes, md, pce, saturn) results is stunning, even more beautifull than my Toshiba 29" of my NNC's (wich is knowed to be a beast in 31k and even in 15k)

[SGGG2]

Picked up a Samsung TX-P2730 off the curb, and the picture's fantastic! 480i 3D titles on PS2 look far better than anything I've gotten out of emulation or video processor chains. However, I'm getting black interference lines using Retroarch Wii when the resolution's set below a certain threshold. I'm certain it's a signal issue as the lines disappear when you press "search", which causes a signal change. I tried a component signal booster but the issue persisted. Any ideas?

Black lines: https://sli.mg/a/hTcTIK

VF4 Evo 480i: https://sli.mg/hsTBhK

[jhonny_d]

thanks, will consider also the mimo for downscaling needs

for a completely different scenario, is an XRGB2 between a PS2 and a 31 khz vga monitor a good idea for 480i games? will it reduce flicker?

[Fudoh]

not really. The way the older XRGB units treat 480i is more or less a simulation of what interlaced looks like. Depending on the titles you want to play, proper deinterlacing is preferable.

[Xyga]

Plus the simulated 480i from the old XRGBs kind of hurts the eyes more than the normal 480i flikering IMHO.

[jhonny_d]

Thanks, I read on another topic here that xrgb 2/3 were good at handling 480i

I assume that there isn't really any good options to make native 480i look good on a crt

[Xyga]

Either play on a normal 15KHz crt, or use a scaler with good full-deinterlacing.

[jhonny_d]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56865

This was the topic I saw

Which scaler would you reccomend to use with a vga monitor?

[Xyga]

That's the million dollar question only you can answer because I don't know what kind of results you would like.
I assume you're aware of Fudoh's website: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
The topic of deinterlacing/upscaling 480i has been discussed many, many times in way more than a couple of threads. It is one of the most difficult video scaling-processing tasks after all.

In short: quality deinterlacing is obtained at the cost of a little lag (1.5~2 frames with a Frame Meister or a DVDO), while lagless is achieved either at the cost of definition and/or more or less watchable fake-480i (like the old XRGBs we were just talking about)

Also depends on how much time and money you want to give it, some solutions are simple and rather cheap (the old XRGBs or the 'vintage' DVDO and Vigatec processors), other require hunting down sometimes expensive machines and spending time messing with the devices (more modern DVDO's, Frame Meister or OSSC + VGA converter...)

[Mune]

Any advice for using HDMI with a BKM142HD with a HDMI to HDSDI converter? I've tried two sources so far, and haven't been able to get anything to display.

Thanks

[jhonny_d]

Very informative, thanks. What is a good quality hdmi 480p to vga converter?

[cruzlink2]

@Fudoh would a cable like this be good to take the output of a PVM/BVM and feed it to a micomsoft capture card http://images.monoprice.com/productlargeimages/5681.jpg ?

[Shadolf]

Can someone tell me please is a Sony KV-29FX66E any good for gaming!? It´s 100Hz so I think there are no scanlines. Although I get scanlines with my Grundig M72 410 REFERENCE when playing Elevator Action Returns or something on Saturn, and this is also a 100Hz.

[Thamiel]

100hz are to be avoided for retro stuff.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

[AndehX]

@Fudoh would a cable like this be good to take the output of a PVM/BVM and feed it to a micomsoft capture card http://images.monoprice.com/productlargeimages/5681.jpg ?

I use that exact cable for that exact purpose and it works fine.

[cruzlink2]

thanks for the reply .

[pixelcorps]

Does anyone know anything about the shibasoku CM201N monitor? it's a TV studio monitor but I cannot find any technical specs anywhere online.. It does RGB and component, but I'm mainly curious if it's a 600 or 900 line monitor, the only mention of any shibasoku monitors is here :

https://andynumbers.wordpress.com/2016/ ... o-monitor/

But this is a CM205N and not the 201N that i might be able to grab..

Any help appreciated..

[SGGG2]

Found a work around for the black bars in Retroarch Wii if anyone's having a similar issue. While in game press the home button to bring up the Retroarch menu, hit "search", then press home to return to the game. This will keep the signal change until "search" is quit via the menu.

[nissling]

here's some 240p gameplay shots I took of the XRGB-1+iScan HD on a Sony e400 CRT outputting at 1080p. looks and plays great. those processors almost feel like they were made for each other.

Really great! I'm glad I'm not the only one here who finds a charm in using the XRGB units on a high-quality CRT. It gives the best of both worlds if you ask me.

[ShadowofBob]

here's some 240p gameplay shots I took of the XRGB-1+iScan HD on a Sony e400 CRT outputting at 1080p. looks and plays great. those processors almost feel like they were made for each other.

Really great! I'm glad I'm not the only one here who finds a charm in using the XRGB units on a high-quality CRT. It gives the best of both worlds if you ask me.

I second this! Running my OSSC with DVI to VGA converter through my HP 21" P1130 (Rebranded Sony G520) in line triple mode looks fantastic. Seriously makes me consider using that over the XBR910(another great CRT, but unable to use line triple and my unit has an issue with ghosting that is visible on all 480p content) with the OSSC. I'll add some pictures later when I get them off my phone showcasing 2x and 3x w/ and w/o scanlines.

[FinalBaton]

Speaking of good PC crt : does anyone have experience with the Sony GDM-F500R? Is it as good as the FW900, apart from it's aspect ratio? (it's 4:3. but I'm okay with that). There's one near me.

There's also a Viewsonic P95F. And a Viewsonic G90, which is a shadowmask and has lesser specs than the P95F, but it's the one I had as a teen and it's quite nostalgic to me. Played emulators a ton on it back in the early 2000s (starting in 2002 I think, all the way up to around 2012, when I foolishly got rid of it). I remember it looking awesome.

[1CC]

I thought you would need to use an arcade vga card, or modify your gpu to display the low 15khz resolutions?

so you can get all the different system specific resolutions for the different arcade boards?

Modern AMD cards support 15khz easily. Just use a program called "Custom Resolution Utility" to set whatever refresh rate/resolution combo you desire. I've used this method to get 240p from my Radeon 7970

This is pretty cool. What cables would I need to do this? I have a Sony CRT with SCART input. Some of the Radeons in the 7000 series I looked at on ebay come with VGA out in addition to DVI. So I guess I'd like to use the DVI port for my LCD monitor and the VGA port to connect the Sony CRT as a second monitor.

Would a simple VGA to RGB cable do the trick? Something like this maybe?
http://www.ebay.de/itm/SCART-AN-VGA-ADA ... 1356357945

Or would I need additional hardware like an Extron or sync stripper to get this going?

[tacoguy64]

Speaking of good PC crt : does anyone have experience with the Sony GDM-F500R? Is it as good as the FW900, apart from it's aspect ratio? (it's 4:3. but I'm okay with that). There's one near me.

There's also a Viewsonic P95F. And a Viewsonic G90, which is a shadowmask and has lesser specs than the P95F, but it's the one I had as a teen and it's quite nostalgic to me. Played emulators a ton on it back in the early 2000s (starting in 2002 I think, all the way up to around 2012, when I foolishly got rid of it). I remember it looking awesome.

Im not sure if it's that one or not but the smaller size one is referred to the artisan. It pretty much is the same as the bigger FW900 in terms of specs. But for retro gaming I would say the 4:3 monitor is better because of its aspect ratio. Here are some screen shots I took of mine a while ago with the frameister mini using no profiles.

https://imgur.com/a/ao6wi

[FinalBaton]

Wow, thanks a TON for the pics Tacoguy! It's hugely appreciated.
The colors on the monitor look great