Cloning the Gamecube component cable

[leonk]

FBX .. quick recap: It's a digital to digital HDMI solution. It reads the digital data from the digital port.

The reason component cables for the GC are so expensive is because they have a Nintendo custom DAC PCB in the cable. This mod gets the data long before the DAC. It too (like all the other HDMI solutions) has a build in OSD to modify video settings.

[FBX]

FBX .. quick recap: It's a digital to digital HDMI solution. It reads the digital data from the digital port.

The reason component cables for the GC are so expensive is because they have a Nintendo custom DAC PCB in the cable. This mod gets the data long before the DAC. It too (like all the other HDMI solutions) has a build in OSD to modify video settings.

Cool. Yeah, I knew about the special chip in the component cables. I was just worried whatever HDMI mod the replaces the cable would have the same smudgy look, like it was somehow inherent with the Gamecube maybe.

[Ikaruga11]

Cool. Yeah, I knew about the special chip in the component cables. I was just worried whatever HDMI mod the replaces the cable would have the same smudgy look, like it was somehow inherent with the Gamecube maybe.

The GameCube doesn't have a smudgy look. There's no hardware or software-based blur like on the Nintendo 64.

But does it have the features and the PQ of the UltraHDMI? Is it digital-to-digital for razor sharp graphics, or does it look smudgy?

Yes, yes and yes. Converting digital to analog doesn't automatically make a signal smudgy. The official GameCube component cables have an extremely high quality DAC (Digital to Analog Conversion) Chip that converts the internal digital YCbCr signal into the analog equivalent: YPbPr, for analog CRTs to use.

This mod gets the data long before the DAC.

Bypassing the signal conversion only makes it a few microseconds faster.

[FBX]

Well the smudgy look is certainly noticed even when using GBI to force 240p output via the component cables for the Game Boy Player. If you want, I can take screenshots to show the difference between pixel sharpness on other consoles versus the rather smudgy edges of the Gamecube via component. I'm willing to believe it's the component cables at fault and not something going on inside the Gamecube.

But at any rate, what's the mod in particular we're talking about? Is it this one?:

https://www.videogameperfection.com/pro ... e-upgrade/

[citrus3000psi]

Well the smudgy look is certainly noticed even when using GBI to force 240p output via the component cables for the Game Boy Player. If you want, I can take screenshots to show the difference between pixel sharpness on other consoles versus the rather smudgy edges of the Gamecube via component. I'm willing to believe it's the component cables at fault and not something going on inside the Gamecube.

But at any rate, what's the mod in particular we're talking about? Is it this one?:

https://www.videogameperfection.com/pro ... e-upgrade/

Yes that is one of them. There are multiple board designs out there, but in the end they are running unseen's gcvideo firmware.

[bobrocks95]

Well the smudgy look is certainly noticed even when using GBI to force 240p output via the component cables for the Game Boy Player. If you want, I can take screenshots to show the difference between pixel sharpness on other consoles versus the rather smudgy edges of the Gamecube via component. I'm willing to believe it's the component cables at fault and not something going on inside the Gamecube.

But at any rate, what's the mod in particular we're talking about? Is it this one?:

https://www.videogameperfection.com/pro ... e-upgrade/

The Game Boy Player looks smudgy no matter what you do, no surprise there. Do you still think GBI in 240p amd native 480p Gamecube games look smudgy through component? I sure don't.

[mickcris]

For anyone who bought with BAC, he just talked about it on his Twitch stream. He ordered it through a company and has still not heard back from them. He decided to switch companies. He said he'll tweet it out.

There were four pieces of flex that he ordered that were bad. The company refused to accept that the whole product was bad. He pretty much had to start over. He also said it's setting back his plug and play version.

2 weeks later and he still has not posted an update publicly. He did have time to discuss, on twitter with game-tech-us, though ultra hdmi pictures. not sure why he just wont let his customers know what is going on. most of us are pretty understanding, but just would like an update. the silence is a bit worrying.

[FBX]

Well the smudgy look is certainly noticed even when using GBI to force 240p output via the component cables for the Game Boy Player. If you want, I can take screenshots to show the difference between pixel sharpness on other consoles versus the rather smudgy edges of the Gamecube via component. I'm willing to believe it's the component cables at fault and not something going on inside the Gamecube.

But at any rate, what's the mod in particular we're talking about? Is it this one?:

https://www.videogameperfection.com/pro ... e-upgrade/

The Game Boy Player looks smudgy no matter what you do, no surprise there. Do you still think GBI in 240p amd native 480p Gamecube games look smudgy through component? I sure don't.

It in fact is still a bit smudgy; just not as much as with the default driver. However, it's noticably less sharp than other clean RGB 240p consoles I've done profiles for. That's what has bothered me about the Gamecube component cables. Even the PAL Gamecube RGB signal looks cleaner and sharper.

[Unseen]

It in fact is still a bit smudgy; just not as much as with the default driver. However, it's noticably less sharp than other clean RGB 240p consoles I've done profiles for. That's what has bothered me about the Gamecube component cables.

The Gamecube uses a 4:2:2 YCbCr framebuffer internally (half horizontal resolution for colors, full for brightness) which might explain a bit of the "smudgyness".

Even the PAL Gamecube RGB signal looks cleaner and sharper.

This would be a counterpoint though because that RGB signal is also generated from that 4:2:2 frame buffer.

[Ikaruga11]

Even the PAL Gamecube RGB signal looks cleaner and sharper.

It's not though. The colors are just different. The RGB signal is still derived from the internal 4:2:2 YCbCr framebuffer as Unseen said.

[FBX]

Even the PAL Gamecube RGB signal looks cleaner and sharper.

It's not though. The colors are just different. The RGB signal is still derived from the internal 4:2:2 YCbCr framebuffer as Unseen said.

I don't have access to PAL RGB, so I was basing the assumption off a video comparison done on Youtube. It could be the equipment used in the video made it look like RGB was showing more detail over component.

So does the HDMI mod circumvent the 4:2:2 YCbCR framebuffer?

[Ikaruga11]

So does the HDMI mod circumvent the 4:2:2 YCbCR framebuffer?

I have no idea about that. Unseen will know.

[Extrems]

An RGB path could be introduced with a High Speed Port device, but it'd only work with homebrew and it'd be difficult to patch licensed software for it.

An easy patch, misusing the existing video interface, would be to output tiled RGB555/565, but no dithering whatsoever would be applied.

[vinnyguy]

The HDMI mod circumvents boring and mediocre and goes straight to kick ass

More people should be soldering in plutoIIx boards instead of waiting around for a better implementation of GC-Video DVI

[Unseen]

So does the HDMI mod circumvent the 4:2:2 YCbCR framebuffer?

Of course not. GCVideo can only take what the Gamecube provides and that is a 4:2:2 YCbCr video signal. If you want existing software rendered in 4:4:4 RGB, Dolphin might work.

[FBX]

So does the HDMI mod circumvent the 4:2:2 YCbCR framebuffer?

Of course not. GCVideo can only take what the Gamecube provides and that is a 4:2:2 YCbCr video signal. If you want existing software rendered in 4:4:4 RGB, Dolphin might work.

Fair enough. So have you seen any need for a deblur function like on the N64, or do the pixels look digitally sharp as is with the mod? I'm interested in getting the mod myself, but I'm just curious as to how it looks. Does anyone have any uncompressed screen captures from say Wind Waker in both interlace and progressive? would love to check them out.

[Extrems]

Most software apply some horizontal scaling (in YCbCr space) for aspect correction.

[BONKERS]

That's the part that could be the issue. IIRC the GCN/Wii both output a 7YY x 480/240p signal no matter what. Games are rendered at whatever internal resolution and then stretched.
I've seen several posts about it, wish I could find any of them however.

Ask any homebrew developers who are familiar with the video signal I guess.
Now that I think about it, I think it was the author of one of the Sega emulators for the Wii that posted something like that.

[Seraphic]

So does the HDMI mod circumvent the 4:2:2 YCbCR framebuffer?

Of course not. GCVideo can only take what the Gamecube provides and that is a 4:2:2 YCbCr video signal. If you want existing software rendered in 4:4:4 RGB, Dolphin might work.

Interesting. But if is that is the case, and the GameCube's Digital Port (as well as GCVideo) is pumping out 4:2:2 YCbCr, what are official Nintendo Component/D-Terminal cables putting out when they are modded for RGBHV output over a VGA connection?

[Extrems]

GCVideo DVI doesn't support 4:2:2 YCbCr passthrough so it, and CMPV-DOL/GCVideo Lite in RGBHV mode, converts to 4:4:4 RGB.

[Unseen]

But if is that is the case, and the GameCube's Digital Port (as well as GCVideo) is pumping out 4:2:2 YCbCr, what are official Nintendo Component/D-Terminal cables putting out when they are modded for RGBHV output over a VGA connection?

They output RGB, what else do you expect?

The process is likely the same as in GCVideo lite in RGB mode: Convert 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 by interpolating the missing color information and apply a color space transformation (essentially a matrix multiplication plus an offset to move the black level from 16 to 0) to convert YCbCr to RGB.

[Seraphic]

But if is that is the case, and the GameCube's Digital Port (as well as GCVideo) is pumping out 4:2:2 YCbCr, what are official Nintendo Component/D-Terminal cables putting out when they are modded for RGBHV output over a VGA connection?

They output RGB, what else do you expect?

But what I meant was if the modded cable was outputting 4:4:4 RGB when the system is sending 4:2:2 YCbC.
Which you answered, and it's not "real" 4:4:4 signal with full chroma same with GCVideo in RGB output.

[Unseen]

But what I meant was if the modded cable was outputting 4:4:4 RGB when the system is sending 4:2:2 YCbC.

Of course it's 4:4:4-RGB - since RGB doesn't have seperate luma and chroma data, it doesn't support color subsampling.

[Guspaz]

Sure you can, the result of subsampling red and blue (but not green) is somewhat similar, if not quite as effective. Both of the below subsampling examples cut the bandwidth required in half:

Original vs 2x2 Chroma subsampling:



Original vs 2x2 red/blue subsampling:



And here's what happens if you cut the bandwidth in half by simply halving the number of pixels (in other words, 1x2 subsampling on all channels):



Clearly, while chroma subsampling produces the best results for a half bandwidth image, red/blue subsampling isn't that much worse (the main issue with it being the colour fringing), and is still a huge improvement over halving the pixel count.

If there's any difference between the overall colour of the chroma subsampling example, that's just photoshop's colourspace conversion going from RGB to lab and back again.

Don't some TVs do red/blue subsampling? Or are they just converting RGB to subsampled YPbPr and back again?

[Extrems]

This scheme is even supported by H.264/265, but it's rare for a video renderer to implement it (only madVR and mpv come to mind).

[moltomolto]

So I messaged BA Consoles to try to get an update on the installs. I went through the email link from the last message I had received from him, which was right before Thanksgiving. In that message he said "installs should begin in about two more weeks". Cool, I thought...at the time. But a month had past so I figured I'd see what's up. Apparently he took the DM feature off the website and I went through a backdoor entry (that's what she said) by accident. So his response was just asking how did I DM him, and to please just contact through email. No response regarding ETA, and my follow-up inquiries through email have been ignored as well. Website still shows install time ETA as October 2016.

Has this entered scam territory yet, or should we still be giving him the benefit of the doubt? I've never used BA Consoles before, so this being my first experience with them is really disappointing.

[meneerbeer]

I am confident, he is legit. However, I find it sad to see how communication is lacking so badly. Most likely he is aware of all the messages on these boards..

An explanation could be he doesn't know if he can fix it. Otherwise, he would just send out a message with an eta or at least an explanation.

[lechu]

If everyone is so angry with him (understandably so), look out for his twitch streams. He's on there constantly. If you can't contact him through his website, do it through his twitch chat. Just follow him on twitch, when you get a notification of him streaming, go on and say "Where the hell is my GC Video and when will you be giving an update?" If enough people do it and annoy him, he'll do something. I know that's a bit of a dick move, but at some point you either need to do something or stop complaining. I've gone on his streams asking him, and he's a bit wishy-washy because I'm the only one questioning him.

[Seraphic]

Has this entered scam territory yet, or should we still be giving him the benefit of the doubt? I've never used BA Consoles before, so this being my first experience with them is really disappointing.

I just sent him another request for an update. One over e-mail and another using his contact form. I think we all want just some idea as to what is going on.
If I do not hear from him by the end of the month as to what the current status is, I might seek methods to get my money back.

[Ikaruga11]

Who else does the GC Video Mod besides BadAss Consoles?