PS2 Ibara Impressions

[system11]

I deem this game unplayable on YOKO.

I deem your television to be too small I can get to level 4.

[2DGaming]

I feel like a total amature when playing this game. I guess I just need more practice. The difficulty spikes up quite drastically and I find it quite difficult because of this. Anyway, I still enjoy the game. I agree I have more luck in Arrange mode than in Arcade mode.

BTW Yoko is fine. I am playing the game on Yoko mode and I can get up to level 4 on Arrange and well lets not talk about Arcade for now.

[Zweihander]

I deem this game unplayable on YOKO.

I deem your television to be too small I can get to level 4.

it's about 18x24.. pretty standard.

Seriously the ranking system is SO vicious
No wonder Ibara did not do too well in the arcades;
1. You need to know how to score= You Need alll the extend lives!
2. Big hitbox
3. Evil bosses ; without hadou cannon it's hell

Actually, it was Ketsui, not Ibara, which didn't do well in the arcades. Ibara, as I understand it, did quite well for itself.

I feel like a total amature when playing this game. I guess I just need more practice. The difficulty spikes up quite drastically and I find it quite difficult because of this. Anyway, I still enjoy the game. I agree I have more luck in Arrange mode than in Arcade mode.

BTW Yoko is fine. I am playing the game on Yoko mode and I can get up to level 4 on Arrange and well lets not talk about Arcade for now.

My only complaints about the game are:
*No Rank meter in Arcade mode; it's not even optional.
*No Boss health bar in Arcade mode; it's not even optional.
*Shitty scaling in YOKO mode. Come back Arika, COME BACK!!! T__T

[LUNardei]

Actually, it was Ketsui, not Ibara, which didn't do well in the arcades.

Uhm? I don't know but Ketsui is still played.

My only complaints about the game are:
*No Rank meter in Arcade mode; it's not even optional.
*No Boss health bar in Arcade mode; it's not even optional.
[/b] T__T

This is how the game actually is, what's the problem? If you want a ps2 version graphically equal to the arcade one, why the gameplay should be different?

[Neon]

*Shitty scaling in YOKO mode. Come back Arika, COME BACK!!! T__T

Arika's ports have scaled/filtered Yoko.

[BulletMagnet]

This is how the game actually is, what's the problem? If you want a ps2 version graphically equal to the arcade one, why the gameplay should be different?

If you want to really nitpick, one might argue about exactly how much of a "gameplay" adjustment that'd be...after all, nothing would have changed except for the display. 'Specially if they were just optional.

In any event, IIRC at least the rank meter is in "practice" mode, though it's been said that, since the thing keeps track of your "overall" rank through the whole game instead of your current "level" of rank, a la Garegga, it's all but useless. Guess I'll see for myself whenever my copy gets here...

[LUNardei]

This is how the game actually is, what's the problem? If you want a ps2 version graphically equal to the arcade one, why the gameplay should be different?

If you want to really nitpick, one might argue about exactly how much of a "gameplay" adjustment that'd be...after all, nothing would have changed except for the display. 'Specially if they were just optional.

In my opinion the important thing is to play with a thing that is as near as possible to the real thing. If the arcade game has no bar, simply I don't want a bar.

[Gozer]

Mine arrived today from Play Asia along with my Cave shirt from rib. That was a nice surprise. Not surprisingly, I did not get the arcadia booklet. I also did not receive a coupon from Play Asia. That’s the first time that has happened. I was going to use it to pre-order Under Defeat.

I'm really enjoying this game. The boss battles are some of the toughest ones I've experienced. I think it looks quite nice in tate mode. It looks allot better then Mushi. The arranged mode is also quite fun. I'm enjoying the soundtrack as well. Taito decided to support digital audio in this port. I'm pretty happy about that.

[icycalm]

Can someone explain to me why the digital audio is important? I've seen several people complain that Mushi didn't support that.

I mean the PCB doesn't support digital audio, after all.

[Zweihander]

*Shitty scaling in YOKO mode. Come back Arika, COME BACK!!! T__T

Arika's ports have scaled/filtered Yoko.

Yeah, but Arika didn't suck at it, thus ESPGaluda and DDP:DOJ were playable on Yoko. Mushi's Yoko playability is questionable, Ibara is just a big no-no.

Actually, it was Ketsui, not Ibara, which didn't do well in the arcades.

Uhm? I don't know but Ketsui is still played.

My only complaints about the game are:
*No Rank meter in Arcade mode; it's not even optional.
*No Boss health bar in Arcade mode; it's not even optional.
[/b] T__T

This is how the game actually is, what's the problem? If you want a ps2 version graphically equal to the arcade one, why the gameplay should be different?

Maybe I'm just used to seeing health bars for bosses... I wish it was, as I said, an optional display. If I wanted to have no clue how much health a boss had, I'd play R-Type...

[thesuperkillerxxx]

Can someone explain to me why the digital audio is important? I've seen several people complain that Mushi didn't support that.

I mean the PCB doesn't support digital audio, after all.

It is how my ps2 is hooked to my stereo. If I use the digital sound, it is much richer, and I don't need to crank the volume. If the game doesn't support it, I have to chage the input on the stereo (button press on remote) and raise the volume meter from about 17-18 to 29-31.

I like it because the sound is richer, IMO...

[Gozer]

Can someone explain to me why the digital audio is important? I've seen several people complain that Mushi didn't support that.

I mean the PCB doesn't support digital audio, after all.

The TV that I use for tate has terrible speakers. I can't describe how bad they sound. My PS2 utilizes the optical output. It is just convenient for me not having to plug the PS2 RCA audio cables into the receiver. Having the game support digital audio avoids this hassle. This is the only reason I complained about Mushi not supporting it.

[LUNardei]

Maybe I'm just used to seeing health bars for bosses... I wish it was, as I said, an optional display. If I wanted to have no clue how much health a boss had, I'd play R-Type...

This is how they created the game, it's the same in Progear and R-Type. If you accept it in R-Type accept it in Ibara. I don't like the lack of the boss bar, but hey, there was no bar in the arcade version so I don't want it here.

[Zweihander]

Maybe I'm just used to seeing health bars for bosses... I wish it was, as I said, an optional display. If I wanted to have no clue how much health a boss had, I'd play R-Type...

This is how they created the game, it's the same in Progear and R-Type. If you accept it in R-Type accept it in Ibara. I don't like the lack of the boss bar, but hey, there was no bar in the arcade version so I don't want it here.

All I'm saying is, it should be OPTIONAL. It's what I've been saying this whole time. It wouldn't be on by default. See, this is different from R-Type. In R-type, the bosses weren't the challenge. The stages were. Ibara is a manic shmup, not a memorizer shmup. Thus, a health bar would be nice, so you could effectively milk the boss, ala Cave's previous games. That's part of why the lack of a health bar bothers me. Every time I'm fighting Meidi, I either finish her off at the beginning of the fight with a super bomber, or if I'm going for score, I'm constantly wondering, "when will she die?! JUST FUCKING DIE!!!!" For a game where strategy comes in more often than Cave's previous releases, a lack of healthbar on bosses sure does screw up the strategy element. I know it's developed by former members of Raizing, but Fucking Christ, at least keep a few of Cave's ideals intact. :/

[LUNardei]

All I'm saying is, it should be OPTIONAL

It doesn't make sense to me. I don't like the lack of the bar in the original, but I don't want that a conversion improve the original, I want the same exact game, as said 1000 times before. Simply we have a different view of the thing, no problem. Basically it's a matter of score comparison between PCB and PS2.

[Zweihander]

All I'm saying is, it should be OPTIONAL

It doesn't make sense to me. I don't like the lack of the bar in the original, but I don't want that a conversion improve the original, I want the same exact game, as said 1000 times before. Simply we have a different view of the thing, no problem. Basically it's a matter of score comparison between PCB and PS2.

*sigh*

My last words on this subject are: If a rank meter and boss health bar came standard in Arrange mode, I seriously doubt it would have been much of a stretch for Cave to make them ***OPTIONAL*** in Arcade mode. You know, for people who like boss health bars? That's all I have to say, I've made my point. Perhaps some UBER-SPECIAL ULTIMATE FINAL FINAL MIX EDITION will include it, who knows...

[LUNardei]

*sigh*

My last words on this subject are: If a rank meter and boss health bar came standard in Arrange mode, I seriously doubt it would have been much of a stretch for Cave to make them ***OPTIONAL*** in Arcade mode. You know, for people who like boss health bars? That's all I have to say, I've made my point.

*sigh*

Just learn to play the game as it is and stop crying for the damn bar!

[LUNardei]

Perhaps some UBER-SPECIAL ULTIMATE FINAL FINAL MIX EDITION will include it, who knows...

Yes, with ***optional*** autobomb and autopilot...

[cigsthecat]

Again, this isn't a CAVE game. They paid for it, but they hired ex Raizing programmers and staff. Rank meters and boss health bars are completely unnecessary and silly.

The bosses give you visual cues as to when they are about to die. If you pay attention there's no big mystery. For example, first boss. Once you blow off the two round fan turrets the opening circle pattern stops. If you continue blasting away at the main body eventually the giant gatling gun comes out. When you destroy that, the blueish sword pattern is fired. Then it dies. Easy. Play Arrange if you want that other crap.

Believe me, you'll know if you've fucked up and the game is becoming unmanageable. Enemies fire a lot faster, more bullets, and medals drop much faster with high rank.

Bulletmagnet: Please stop trying to tell everyone all about games you've never played. Every other post of yours starts with "Granted, I've never played ___________, but here's what other people say about it." That doesn't help anyone.

The rank meter is useless, but not because of the way it works. It changes color as it rises, perhaps these are the "levels" you're talking about. It's easy to see when you hoard extends and grab everything in sight that rank goes way up. The higher the rank, the less effect a death has on it. Flying around on your last man with minimal weapons is still the best strategy. The rank meter isn't needed because this stuff is common fucking sense in a Raizing game.

[MadSteelDarkness]

Got it. Like it. Suck terribly at it.

And man, does shit blow up real good in this game.

[BulletMagnet]

I don't want that a conversion improve the original

I hafta say, that sort of mindset is really pretty foreign to me...but hey, to each his own.

Yes, with ***optional*** autobomb and autopilot...

You know, I really love it when someone around here voices a minor complaint about a game, and the response is "Yeah, and next time why don't they just "IMPROVE" it and make the thing play itself for you, you wuss!" Honestly, it gets more obnoxious every time I read it...

Bulletmagnet: Please stop trying to tell everyone all about games you've never played.

Apologies, I'm not trying to sound authoritative or anything like that, I'm just trying to get a more accurate impression of the thing (as you've contributed to with your observations about the rank-o-meter). What I mainly wonder about, as I voiced in a post a page or three back (which, unless I've missed it, no one's addressed yet), is whether this game, like Garegga, won't let you reduce the rank down past a certain point once you've raised it high enough, or whether the rank is less strictly "tiered" than it was there. As I said, I have ordered a copy for myself, so hopefully soon I'll be able to leave behind the "haven't played it" bit, heh.

The rank meter isn't needed because this stuff is common fucking sense in a Raizing game.

Not even "Raizing game," I'd nitpick...I'd narrow it down even further to "Garegga-esque game." If my memory serves, no other game, even by Raizing, has a rank system which works quite like Garegga's or Ibara's, or at least encourages (or requires) the same play style to the same extent.

[zlk]

Here is why a boss meter probably wouldn't work so well in Ibara: you can do severe damage to a boss by just dying. A good example of this is the last attack of a stage 2 boss. This attack is nearly impossible to dodge, even for great players. If you haven't died during this attack, it will take a long time to shoot down the boss. However the moment you die, the boss almost loses all of its remaining hit points, and the boss will die as you shoot at it before your vulnerability ends. It would be very weird to see the boss health meter at 1/4, you die, and it drops to 1/64 or something similar.

[ptoing]

Here is why a boss meter probably wouldn't work so well in Ibara: you can do severe damage to a boss by just dying. A good example of this is the last attack of a stage 2 boss. This attack is nearly impossible to dodge, even for great players. If you haven't died during this attack, it will take a long time to shoot down the boss. However the moment you die, the boss almost loses all of its remaining hit points, and the boss will die as you shoot at it before your vulnerability ends. It would be very weird to see the boss health meter at 1/4, you die, and it drops to 1/64 or something similar.

I don't think that Ibara needs a boss healthbar, but this reason does not hold up. You explode into a shockwave of bullets anyway when you die, so there would be a relation to the damage done.

[system11]

Ibara is a manic shmup, not a memorizer shmup.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
..
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!

Did you really just say that? That quote needs to be on a mug or something.

Manics require more memorisation than R-Type, usually if you want any kind of good score, but frequently even if you want to survive at all. Having to remember where to be for certain enemy attacks and arrivals, without the physical cue of scenery that forces your hand.

[Zweihander]

Ibara is a manic shmup, not a memorizer shmup.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
..
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!

Did you really just say that? That quote needs to be on a mug or something.

Manics require more memorisation than R-Type, usually if you want any kind of good score, but frequently even if you want to survive at all. Having to remember where to be for certain enemy attacks and arrivals, without the physical cue of scenery that forces your hand.

All games require memorization. the Memorizer Genre refers to shmups, like R-type, in which terrain or boss attacks will kill you cheaply and unfairly the first time, and the second+onward time, you know what to look out for. Ibara is a Manic shmup, i.e. focussing on bullet patterns rather than terrain. That, and the bosses ARE a challenge, as opposed to R-Type's pushovers. (to be fair, one out of every 5 R-Type bosses poses a threat.)

I love it when I say Ibara isn't chiefly a memorizer, and someone assumes I meant it didn't require memorization. XD If that were the case, Ikaruga, RSG, ...anything by Treasure... ...anything by ANYONE would be a "memorizer" game... by that, I mainly meant to say this: Memorizers, ala R-Type, are very easy to play the exact same way every time. Ibara/Garegga/manics in general: it's very hard to play exactly the same way, especially when everything you pick up in the game affects RANK. To fight a boss in Ibara the exact same way, you'd need to have the exact same rank. While repetition, pixel-for-pixel in movement, may be the stuff R-Type is made of, that shit would get real old, real fast, in a Manic shmup. Simply put.

[system11]

All games require memorization. the Memorizer Genre refers to shmups, like R-type, in which terrain or boss attacks will kill you cheaply and unfairly the first time, and the second+onward time, you know what to look out for.

Ibara, lvl2 boss, blue dart attack from first turret.

Ibara is a Manic shmup, i.e. focussing on bullet patterns rather than terrain.

Focusing on pure memorisation of the bullet patterns you mean. Except unlike scenery, you don't get much time to even think about it - you need to remember.

I love it when I say Ibara isn't chiefly a memorizer, and someone assumes I meant it didn't require memorization. XD If that were the case, Ikaruga, RSG, ...anything by Treasure... ...anything by ANYONE would be a "memorizer" game...

Actually, both of those games have visual cues or level layouts that force a course of action rather than you having to remember it, unless you're going for lots of chaining. In a typical 'manic' shmup you have to remember where to be, purely given the arrival of enemies and parts of the background image (on those games that even have memorable sections). You have to remember -more-. People keep getting the 'definition' (for it's tenuous to say the least) of a memorization shmup completely wrong - backwards in fact. I'd say it was entirely null & void. I came to realise this watching someone very good at Mushi, playing it and calling where each enemy formation would be, and where they needed to be on the screen. That's insane levels of memorisation.

[Zweihander]

Ibara, lvl2 boss, blue dart attack from first turret.

State the simple, sure-fire way to clearly evade this attack, and then you can relate it to a memorizer shmup's boss attacks. I did say memorizer cheap-kills will destroy you the first time, not every time you play.

[ArrogantBastard]

Edit: I retract my post and I'm moving what I wanted to ask in Ibara High Score thread, because it seems more apropriate for that thread.

[LUNardei]

to each his own.

I would like to underline that we are talking about arcade conversions. If you want something different from the same exact arcade game on your console, you want a different game. But ok, to each his own

You know, I really love it when someone around here voices a minor complaint about a game, and the response is "Yeah, and next time why don't they just "IMPROVE" it and make the thing play itself for you, you wuss!" Honestly, it gets more obnoxious every time I read it...

Sorry, it was my first (and hope last) time

[Metal Gear Okt]

Odds are, the reason it doesn't support digital out is that Cave wants you to buy the soundtrack, not just turn off sound effects and rip it to your PC.

Those Bastards.

Sega did that a couple years ago with one of their Initial D games.