Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

[andykara2003]

PC CRT monitors offer a massive quality and clarity jump over even the nice RGB modded televisions.

I'm curious - I don't suppose it'd be possible to see a pic of an N64 running on a PC CRT monitor with your mod? What size monitor do you normally use for this?

[mikejmoffitt]

Here's a shot of Smash 64 on a little 17" eMachines we picked up new-old-stock:



This is with de-blur on, scanline generation off.

[leonk]

that looks amazing. Very sharp.

Do people get the same output using Tim's N64RGB and Borti's firmware?

[tacoguy64]

that looks amazing. Very sharp.

Do people get the same output using Tim's N64RGB and Borti's firmware?

I haven't been playing much n64 lately *been busy with new pokemon* but I can take some pics or videos on both my pc monitor for comparison. I'm using tim's board with de-blur flash on to it along with the ossc.

[mikejmoffitt]

that looks amazing. Very sharp.

Do people get the same output using Tim's N64RGB and Borti's firmware?

I don't believe Tim's board has enough resources to do a full line doubler, so the answer would have to be no. That picture is of a 30KHz VGA monitor.

[andykara2003]

Here's a shot of Smash 64 on a little 17" eMachines we picked up new-old-stock:

Thanks for that, that is awesome. I love seeing unusual things like this - N64 with sharp pixels with 480p CRT scanlines! And nice find re. NOS monitors.

It's very much horses for courses with the N64 I think. Although I can totally appreciate how people like this look, I think I personally prefer the less pixellated look of a low use 25" consumer Trinitron for this console, at least for games that aren't too blurry to begin with. I'm going to get one of these mods anyway to see how it improves the really blurry stuff. But for the games I play (N's first party games, Rare's 1st tier stuff etc.), Nintendo's method struck a balance that works for me.

[Ikaruga11]

that looks amazing. Very sharp.

Do people get the same output using Tim's N64RGB and Borti's firmware?

I don't believe Tim's board has enough resources to do a full line doubler, so the answer would have to be no. That picture is of a 30KHz VGA monitor.

What about 15KHz? How does Tim's board on 15KHz compare to yours on 31KHz?

[jade88]

I'm curious, is the horizontal blur of the N64 the same issue with the pre 1 chip SNES? I'd love to see an SNES mod with sharper output, but accurate game processing.

[mikejmoffitt]

I'm curious, is the horizontal blur of the N64 the same issue with the pre 1 chip SNES? I'd love to see an SNES mod with sharper output, but accurate game processing.

No, the pre-1chip SNES systems have a harsh low pass filter in the RGB. Whether or not it's in the signal path or coming from the PPU, it's a different issue. The N64 blur is introduced digitally and is intentional.

[FBX]

Can't remember if I mentioned this before, but for those that have a Framemeister, I found you can use it to de-blur the pixels as well on basic RGB modded N64s. For example, if you have one of the 7314 RGB amp mods going, you'd do the usual Auto-Scaler = off with H_Scaler = 4 and V_Scaler = 7, and then you go to the Color_Set options and change set Sharpness = 1 instead of zero. It actually does a pretty decent job of de-blurring.

[mikejmoffitt]

I finally got around to testing the N64VGA PCB. A few notes:

Bad:
* Both the FPGA and the DAC had some cold solder joints, leading me down a very annoying debugging trail.
* I should rearrange the option selections, probably using SMT pads, because the wires get in the way of the N64 data lines
* I tried giving the DAC the N64's 3.3V rail to simplify the design, but this gave some interesting flickery interference that directly corresponds to CPU/RCP utilization, which is a result of it being "done" and entering a low power state, reducing load on the 3.3V rail temporarily
* The silkscreen isn't the greatest on these, so it's pretty hard to read. I'll have to make it bigger.

Good:
* No visible "jailbar" interference at all on the video output, even in 480p on an LCD (was a problem for some earlier designs of mine)
* After hand-resoldering the DAC and FPGA pins that I suspected, everything looked the way it is supposed to.
* The board is about ~70% of the size of my NeoVGA Rev 4 boards
* Snipping the 3.3V supply away from the DAC and rewiring it to run on the regulated 5V from the N64 solved the problems with the load interference.

So, a few tiny revisions to the PCB and it'll be a solid design. I'd like to get a pair of calipers and make a PCB shape that actually matches a specific area in the N64, so it can slot in nicely. If I can resolve the few issues / weak points as outlined in the readme, I'd consider making this a board people can get as a kit.

[CkRtech]

Awesome, Mike. Thanks for sharing the update on your project. Look forward to seeing more on the N64VGA progress.

[vol.2]

Very cool. Looking forward to seeing this out in the wild.

[yxkalle]

If a horizontal line is stretched from 320 to 640 pixels, the sum of all odd pixels should equal (or be very close to) the sum of all even. If this is true on all of the lines we have a stretched image.

[tacoguy64]

Very nice Mike, might actually order one of these

[leonk]

Recently I've been doing a lot of N64RGB installs with Borti's custom firmware. I tie 'A' and 'M' on the N64RGB to the console for IGR/controller toggles of deblur/15bit.

I did notice an issue that I believe needs to be resolved in firmware (Either Tim or Borti) that might come back to bite people in the future.

If A and M are connected to the console (as per Borti's instructions) but Tim's OEM firmware is still on the N64, just a black screen is visible. Audio is also dead. Worst yet, even composite is dead. (N64RGB holding the system in reset state?). But once I flash Borti's firmware on the N64RGB, all is well. This might be an issue in the future if new firmware is released that will require rewiring.

[jade88]

I'm curious, is the horizontal blur of the N64 the same issue with the pre 1 chip SNES? I'd love to see an SNES mod with sharper output, but accurate game processing.

No, the pre-1chip SNES systems have a harsh low pass filter in the RGB. Whether or not it's in the signal path or coming from the PPU, it's a different issue. The N64 blur is introduced digitally and is intentional.

Is this low pass filter something that could be fixed with a mod potentially speaking? If it's built in the PPU i would assume not, but i'm really curious about this. I wish there was a way to have the sharpness of later models, but not compromise game processing.

[bobrocks95]

I'm curious, is the horizontal blur of the N64 the same issue with the pre 1 chip SNES? I'd love to see an SNES mod with sharper output, but accurate game processing.

No, the pre-1chip SNES systems have a harsh low pass filter in the RGB. Whether or not it's in the signal path or coming from the PPU, it's a different issue. The N64 blur is introduced digitally and is intentional.

Is this low pass filter something that could be fixed with a mod potentially speaking? If it's built in the PPU i would assume not, but i'm really curious about this. I wish there was a way to have the sharpness of later models, but not compromise game processing.

There is some crazy Japanese resistor mod that gets close to 1-Chip performance. Not sure how to find it again though.

[yxkalle]

There is some crazy Japanese resistor mod that gets close to 1-Chip performance. Not sure how to find it again though.

http://vaot.mydns.jp/fc/sfc_sharp2.htm

[bobrocks95]

That's it, thanks for posting. I don't think it's viable until someone makes a board for it, but at the same time I'd love to see the results from someone crazy enough to try it.

[andykara2003]

I'm debating whether to go ahead with one of these mods for my PAL and NTSC N64s and am reluctant to go do so in case any significant improvements come along re. image quality.

I only need 15Khz so am thinking of using Tim's board + Borti's firmware. I'm happy with the manual switching of the deblur via controller presses & don't want auto detection.

This seems to be a fast changing field at the moment so I don't want to pay for the modding work only to discover 6 months later that there have been PQ improvements.

Can anyone in the know let me know if there could be potential PQ improvements over Tim's board+ Borti's firmware, or is it the case that 'deblur is deblur' and the only improvements would be in the realm of adding 31Khz, better auto detection etc.?

[bobrocks95]

Any improvements would be made through firmware if you're sticking with 15kHz. Firmware flashing can be done without any soldering at all, so I think you're safe to get Tim's board installed now.

[andykara2003]

Any improvements would be made through firmware if you're sticking with 15kHz. Firmware flashing can be done without any soldering at all, so I think you're safe to get Tim's board installed now.

Thanks, good to know - my only issue is that I'm a novice with electronics & soldering & previously had problems connecting Tim's board to a USB blaster. I wish there was a way to just plug the blaster in to a connector on the board without soldering.

[leonk]

for all my installs, I crimp a new 10 pin connector and solder it to Tim's programmer port. This way customers can upgrade the firmware on their own in the future by just removing screws on the bottom, lifting lid, and plugging port into blaster.

[andykara2003]

for all my installs, I crimp a new 10 pin connector and solder it to Tim's programmer port. This way customers can upgrade the firmware on their own in the future by just removing screws on the bottom, lifting lid, and plugging port into blaster.

Great idea, cheers. I'll ask my modder to do that :)

[FBX]

Side note: I finally got my hands on an UltraHDMI N64. I flashed the firmware to 1.05, turned deblur on with integer scaling, and started playing my favorites on the system... All I can say is HOLY SHIT! The picture quality was emulator-perfect (of course), and it honestly felt like I was experiencing for the first time what the N64 should have been like all along. An incredible mod with the perfect set of features. It should be the standard by which all HDMI mods are measured.

[Ikaruga11]

Side note: I finally got my hands on an UltraHDMI N64. I flashed the firmware to 1.05, turned deblur on with integer scaling, and started playing my favorites on the system... All I can say is HOLY SHIT! The picture quality was emulator-perfect (of course), and it honestly felt like I was experiencing for the first time what the N64 should have been like all along. An incredible mod with the perfect set of features. It should be the standard by which all HDMI mods are measured.

How good is the upscaling to 1080p

[andykara2003]

It's fantastic if you like the linedoubled pixelated look but if you're into the CRT look, it doesn't compare to a good CRT. I never use mine for that reason but it's a great piece of kit all the same.

[AndehX]

for all my installs, I crimp a new 10 pin connector and solder it to Tim's programmer port. This way customers can upgrade the firmware on their own in the future by just removing screws on the bottom, lifting lid, and plugging port into blaster.

Could you show a picture of this? What type of connector do you use? I'm thinking of getting Tim's board for my N64. It could be an idea to mount that 10 pin connector on the back of the N64 (maybe behind the PSU) so you don't even need to open the N64 to reflash. Just remove the PSU, and connect to the 10 pin connector

[FBX]

How good is the upscaling to 1080p

It gives you options for integer 4x and 5x if you want perfect pixels, and it also offers non-integer scaling, though obviously the pixels will not be entirely uniform.