Best 1440p 16:9 monitors for TATE games on retro consoles?

[Galdelico]

Hi there guys, hope you can help me with my quest!

After getting an OSSC - and absolutely loving the way it displays my retro consoles on my old Asus VW246H - I decided to buy a new monitor, exclusively for my retro corner. Now, I already got plenty of suggestions on which brands/models/specs should I look at, but there's still one thing I'm pretty much clueless about.

I want a monitor that can be rotated, in order to finally fully enjoy the TATE games I own for the Saturn, the PlayStation and the PS2, but I found out that - while all the monitors I checked can only be pivoted 90° clockwise - the majority of those games only rotate in the opposite direction (90° counter-clockwise), and don't come with any option to flip the screen accordingly.

I'm aware this is a non-issue, with emulators and modern shmups providing a plethora of screen settings to fit everyone's setup. Still, I've been told - quite generically - that there are modern monitors that actually allow the user to rotate the picture, other than the the screen itself, via their OSD.

I figured this is the best place to ask for advices, as I tried to find informations by myself, with no luck so far.

Thanks in advance! ^_-

[Xyga]

If the mounting system is standard VESA (for 27" typically 100x100 4 screws) then you can make it so the default position is 'tate' (portrait), and when you want it horizontal (landscape) you just rotate it clockwise.
No need for extra built-in software or whatever, it's that simple.

Now if the mount is proprietary instead of generic VESA there could be a problem, but those are the minority...
(I remember a Samsung with a rotating but attached, non-VESA stand, so the 'make tate the default' trick was not possible without hard modification)

Also if you want a monitor which doesn't come with a fully adjustable rotating stand, you can buy a generic one separately, I'm using a Digitus DA-90346 for my HP 27xw and it holds it firmly in any position.
Just make sure the monitor you buy features at least 100x100 VESA mounting (it's in the specs)

[Galdelico]

Awesome, thank you SO much! ^_-

[Galdelico]

Bit of an update, hope you don't mind... At first, I made sure all the monitors I'm looking at support VESA standard: one is 100x100, another one 200x200. No problem here, I guess.
Now, in case one would still prefer to use the original base, instead of a third party one (like your Digitus), is the first trick you suggested - to set portrait/tate mode as the main one, leaving landscape to be the one to rotate 90° cw - usually doable via OSD, without connecting the monitor to a PC, and fiddle around with drivers, graphic cards and operating systems?

Kind of a dumb question, I know, but - other than my MacBook - I don't really have access to any other PC, at home, so it would be not as easy as it sounds, for me, to configure the monitor outside its OSD.

Thanks again! ^_-

[Fudoh]

is the first trick you suggested - to set portrait/tate mode as the main one, leaving landscape to be the one to rotate 90° cw - usually doable via OSD, without connecting the monitor to a PC, and fiddle around with drivers, graphic cards and operating systems?

we're talking a strictly mechanical problem here. This has nothing nothing to do with your source.

[Galdelico]

Oh man, I blame my flu for making me stupider than usual.

Of course, you only need to physically mount the monitor vertically, so the 90° cw rotation brings it back to normal landscape position.
Thanks again.

[Xyga]

Generic stands like the Digitus typically rotate both ways so no 'trick' is needed, it's the manufacturer-provided stands that sometimes rotate only clockwise, even when they're VESA-compliant.
With the latter you can do the 'trick' (making tate/portrait the default)

PS: careful though I've seen VESA-compliant provided stands with additional groves and clips, some Dell monitors used to come packed with that kind of stand: the mounting is VESA, meaning you can mount to a generic stand/arm, but the one provided is limited to a single-way attachment: can't do the defaultate trick.
A semi-proprietary type, sort of...

[Fudoh]

PS: careful though I've seen VESA-compliant provided stands with additional groves and clips, some Dell monitors used to come packed with that kind of stand: the mounting is VESA, meaning you can mount to a generic stand/arm, but the one provided is limited to a single-way attachment: can't do the defaultate trick.

with a bit of work you can usually rotate the plate on the stand (the part that attaches to the monitor), so it works after all. Requires a screw driver, so not "instant plug and play" but still manageable.

[Galdelico]

Thanks again guys, very helpful.

Any of you may have some well tested gaming monitor to recommend? It would be used as an OSSC display for all my retro systems, up to the PS2, the GameCube and the original Xbox. Other people suggested me to go ASUS, specifically MG279Q, PB278QR, Rog Swift PG279Q or MG278Q (which is TN but apparently still good).

Maybe there are less expensive alternatives that'd serve just as well?

[Galdelico]

Sorry for bumping my old thread, but I'm finally ready to buy the monitor and I found out this is the way the panel connects to the stand:



Do you guys think it's possible to do the trick you suggested me above? I'm pretty clueless.

Once again, sorry to keep bothering you, but I'd like to know whether or not it's better to buy a Digitus stand, along with the monitor.
Thanks in advance!

[Xyga]

Can't tell much without knowing the model number, sorry... but if it's one of those VESA with added clips and groves like the Dell I've mentioned, you might indeed have to buy a generic rotating stand like the Digitus or similar.

(or maybe cut the clips etc to do do whatever you want, only if you knwo what you're doing of course).

VESA mounting compatibility again is always specified in the product's specs and manual.

[Galdelico]

It's the Asus PB277Q Gaming Monitor.

It looks like you can un-screw that metal plate on the stand, and screw it back in the desired position - it appears to be a perfect square, whith symmetrical screw holes on each side - but yeah... I have nothing more than that photo, so I can only guess.
Even YouTubers who reviewed the monitor seem pretty clueless and don't understand what I mean, when I ask about this subject.

[Xyga]

Yes that's 100x100 VESA compliant mounting, the manual specifies it. So nothing to add: either figure how to modify the one provided (you'll have to figure out how yourself I'm afraid) or buy a generic stand.

Just a question; why did you choose that monitor ?

[Galdelico]

I'm still not entirely, 100% sure. ^^;

First, it's a display I'd be using exclusively with my retro consoles - from the Mega Drive to the original XBOX - and the OSSC (the Open Source Scan Converter), and nothing else. I need a 27" because it wouldn't sit on a desk, and I'd be a couple meters away from it (my current Asus 24" looks a tad small, in comparison). Also, I want it to be pivotable, because of TATE shmups.
I'm leaning towards Asus because the OSSC turned out to be pretty much fully compatible with my old VW246H Full HD, so I expect it to be with all the newer models too. 1440p because it looks like it will be eventually supported by OSSC's LineX4 mode, once ready.
I'm aware it's a TN screen - not an IPS one - but I worry the backlight bleeding (notorious issue with most IPS panels on the market) may get distracting, since I'd be playing 4:3 with black borders 99% of the time.
Finally, I'm not too concerned about the 75hz refresh rate, as all the systems I'm gonna hook up to the monitor are limited to 60.
Basically, I'm not sure I want to blow 2x (or more) the amount of money for specs I'll never take advantage of (4K, 144hz, G-Sync etc...).

All that said, do you believe it's a piece of crap?
Ultimately, I'd like to buy a good monitor, in order to complete my setup and enjoy my retro collection.

[Xyga]

Personally I would have put a little more and bought a PB278QR for instance (or better an LG 27MB85R though it's harder to source), since I really loathe TN panels, the awful viewing angles will always get in your way especially when the screen is tated (remember the TN color shift happens on the horizontal, in tate/portrait it will then feel significantly more annoying and noticeable to your eyes).

I know IPSes are a bit more risky to buy because of the frequent light bleed issue, but that's why it's recommended to buy them from sellers with good returns policies.
Troublesome, but worth the trouble IMHO.

As for the resolution it's okay, it's hard to recommend 60Hz 1080p monitors today, but unlike the 60Hz 1440p they've matured and there are very good and affordable IPS and VA options now, even in 32", which is kind of ideal for everything consoles.
IMHO the OSSC has well-enough to offer with its already stunning linetriple mode, which most brands of monitors will support anyway.
1080 is more an annoying limitation when it comes to emulation with advanced shaders for those who like them, otherwise they're still good.

PS: I wouldn't say yours is a piece of crap, but beyond the typical issues with TN's, the colors reproduction seems to be very poor from what I've read.
For that I think it's a bit overpriced.

[Galdelico]

I didn't buy it yet, so your (good) points are much appreciated.

So, would you go with a good 1080p IPS, rather than a 1440p TN? I didn't consider the color shift in TATE mode... I assumed it would've been ok, until you looked at the monitor from the front.

Thanks again!

[Xyga]

So, would you go with a good 1080p IPS, rather than a 1440p TN?

Definitely, if it's to be used for consoles as a 'TV' and not as a PC monitor 1080p is still well sufficient IMHO.

But I have a coating bias: I like glossy ~ semi-glossy for the superior clarity and colors/contrast, but I understand the reflections on the screen can be annoying to some (I have arranged my displays and room lighting to avoid those so not an issue for me, well...)
Currently I'm using an HP 27xw, which might no longer be available and replaced by the quasi-identical 27es in some parts of the world.
In 32" the LG 32MP58HQ (IPS) and the Samsung S32F351 (VA) are the best candidates, but semi-glossy as well.
note: all three are VESA-compliant but the HP needs an adaptor bracket, the LG is something like 200x100, and both 32" might be too big for a generic stand like the Digitus, not 100% sure, but there are stronger, maybe higher ones around.

If you want to read about other good monitors including models with stronger anti-glare coatings, check this guy's reviews: http://wecravegamestoo.com/forums/monit ... ssage.html
And this website+forum: http://pcmonitors.info/
You can talk to both of them (NCX and PCM2) they're very nice and reliable guys who don't know everything but still much more than most smiling wannabes on youtube or newegg/amazon customer reviews.
Most other english-speaking websites and forums will only review and discuss top-of-the-line expensive gaming monitors that are way beyond the average retrogamer's console/scaler needs.

In any case take your time, chosing a monitor is actually quite a difficult thing.

[Galdelico]

Thanks alot. Super appreciated. ^_-

Yeah, I'm not too sure about glossy/semi-glossy screens, mainly because my game room - aside from night time, I guess - would never be 100% glare-free, in normal conditions.
Also, I checked on Amazon (Italy), and they actually have the HP ES you mentioned, but the only model available doesn't seem to support the VESA standard and doesn't look pivotable either.

And, yes, this monitor is going to be entirely devoted to retrogame (not even as a TV, as I don't need one in my game room). 27" is the perfect size for my current setup - 32" wouldn't fit, unfortunately - so I'm not looking for anything bigger than that.

Thanks for the link too. I'll definitely drop a question there too.

^_-

[Xyga]

Also, I checked on Amazon (Italy), and they actually have the HP ES you mentioned, but the only model available doesn't seem to support the VESA standard and doesn't look pivotable either.

As I've mentioned it requires an adapter bracket; this one http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Pavilion- ... B01DNCP7HW
So it raises the cost a bit, and the while rotated the monitor will be a bit off-centered, but since it's lightweight a stand like the Digitus has no problems holding it in place.

EDIT: hey wait you're right maybe it doesn't have the holes anymore ! that would suck...or is it just the picture ? gotta check

not even as a TV

I meant 'TV' for the intended gaming use, when it's only for video games and moreover games without many small details and small text (like the ones designed primarily for PC), the player sits a bit further, like the old days when we were playing in front of our 21~25~27 inches 4:3 CRT TVs.

Anyway good 'hunt'.

[Galdelico]

Thanks again! ^_-

And yeah, judging by the pictures, that newer HP doesn't even come with holes on the back.
Also, I got in contact with the guy at WCG, as you suggested, so hopefully I'll get some more informations soon.

[Xer Xian]

Btw, also keep in mind that monitors with built-in +/-90° rotation capability do exist - for example, I was eyeing this one for a while (currently at ~270€ on amazon.it, but can be found for less), before deciding to stick with my old 5:4 IPS a bit longer to wait for OLED displays to be more affordable..

[Galdelico]

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out (for some reason, I gave for granted the rotation was generally 90° clockwise only, as it's the one that gets mentioned 99% of the time)!

That Eizo monitor looks great, but unfortunately it's a 24", which is a bit too small for the setup I'm going to build. I've already tested it with my 24" Asus and, yeah, it convinced me even more to go 27. Bigger screens from that manufacturer, on the other hand, cost a bit more than I'm willing to spend for a retrogaming display.

Grazie ancora! ^_-

[Xyga]

@Xer Xian: But how many with the specs you're looking for ? Also rotating both clockwise and counterclockwise or with a standard VESA mount that lets you change the default position ?

I can think of several good monitors that come with a rotating stand, but either very expensive, or not with the panel specs I want, or proprietary mount, etc...

When you think about all that it narrows down your choices to an extreme low number of packaged/inclusive options, which is why the VESA compatibility and alternative mounting options are very important.

I know there's also a lot of people who do want integrated speakers, as shitty as they are. Well with monitors, getting all the features you're dreaming of in one product is almost impossible.

EDIT: btw I hadn't noticed but the Dell U2715H price is rather okay now (it was quite expensive at release)

[Galdelico]

In my case, I'd prefer to keep the original stand because - I know it's silly/stupid... Look over practicality - I don't especially love the idea of a franken-monitor, where the panel and its stand clash against each other, design-wise. That's just me, though.

EDIT: btw I hadn't noticed but the Dell U2715H price is rather okay now (it was quite expensive at release)

That looks pretty sleek. Does it usually come recommended?

[Xyga]

I understand but that limits your choices even further then.
Generic stands don't look very sexy indeed, but seriously; while playing you will completely forget about it (well, unless you have a third eye scanning around that is )

PS/ for the Dell ask pcmonitors, I think they've reviewd it.
PS2: here also: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2715h.htm

[Galdelico]

Haha, I may get close to that level of picky, man. XD

While waiting for a reply from WeCraveGames, I looked at various websites/reviews and that Dell didn't seem to get stunning feedbacks (even on TFTC). Such a shame the Asus I posted yesterday wasn't good, because it looked like the best possible choice for my setup (but I got too enthusiastic over the very few reviews I read on Amazon.it, I guess... ).

After all, it seems like either I have to look up at the 500/600 euros tier, or just accept compromises in some areas (fast response/worse colours on a TN panel, image quality shortcomings/brilliant picture on an IPS, third party accessories/practicality over design...). If I could use another 24" the choice would be so much easier, but unfortunately that's not really an option.

[Xyga]

The thing that holds me from renewing my main monitor for an expensive top of the line gaming one, is that next year HDMI 2.1 might bring adaptive sync to any display including TVs.
If it's a thing (Game Mode VRR) and it works fine, we'll be freed from the G-Sync and FreeSync market.

Now it could be a couple of years if not more before really interesting monitors and TVs featuring HDMI 2.1 happen, that's a long time, so it's not a dramatic investment to buy a decent entry~mid level monitors until that era really begins.

[Xer Xian]

Finding a monitor that ticks all the boxes is a pain, kinda like with girls

Galdelico, I'll throw another thought just to confuse you a bit more - since you are only going to use it for retrogaming, have you considered a 4:3 display instead? You can find an old high quality 4:3 IPS monitor with ~10 ms response time (overdrive on) for cheap on ebay (e.g.). Yeah it'll be second-hand but it should last you till OLEDs become affordable hopefully. Not sure you can find one bigger than 21" and fully roTATEable though..

The thing that holds me from renewing my main monitor for an expensive top of the line gaming one, is that next year HDMI 2.1 might bring adaptive sync to any display including TVs.

I've been wondering about the usefulness of this feature for retrogaming - I mean, I get it if you'd like to use arcade PCBs with odd refresh rates, not so sure why you'd need it for console gaming.. ?

[Xyga]

Careful though those 1600x1200 monitors were great in their time, but the pixel responsiveness and lag definitely weren't up to today's standards.
Never read the advertised ** miliseconds, it doesn't mean anything even remotely accurate.
(I own a Belinea 2080 S2 btw, still use it from time-to-time)

For both IPS and VA things changed a lot around 2010, with the introduction of much better-controlled overdrives, more models with lower lag (and actually measured).
The introduction of led backlighting was a downgrade because of PWM, but that too was replaced with direct-current PWM-free around 2012~2013.

1600x1200 didn't benefit from those evolutions as far as I know, and the category shrunk to the benefit of 24" 1920x1200 (most mosdels unfortunately unable to justify 16:9 signals, though 4:3 is mostly ok afaik)

LCD displays have been through various short eras/generations, essentialy because of R&D milestones and supply, it's good to remember what to expect depending on the monitor's year of release.

[Galdelico]

Believe it or not, I actually thought about getting an old 4:3 LCD monitor but quickly discarded the idea.
Other than what Xyga said, i'd be using the screen exclusively with the OSSC, which I have no idea how well/badly would deal with those odd resolutions. Also, since I'm gonna play XBOX/PS2/GameCube games as well, I like to have the full range of screen ratios covered up.

I'm waiting for NCX' reply just to be sure, but I'm pretty convinced towards the Asus PB277Q. I'll take the risk with the TN panel, but after having tested the OSSC with my current Asus 24" - from a few years ago - and seen how wonderfully it all worked, I feel like I want something that will most likely perform just as good (even better, maybe, considered how 1440p is even better than 1080p, for LineX3 mode).