A note on PCB's: Don't.

[Neon]

I have to say, this format fucking sucks. I've spent hundreds on a Supergun, RGB monitor, Batrider and Mr. Driller G PCB's, and I still can't play the games cause the SG is broken and no one can fix it - $325 US down the drain right there alone. Keep in mind I'm in college and only work during summer/xmas break.

There's so much good shit on consoles that you shouldn't waste your time spending hundreds on games sold 'as-is' from ebay shmucks/hong kong based retailers who have no problem selling you bootlegs.

Not to mention you have to keep them in that bubblewrap and one little zap of static electricity will destroy them. Huge, fragile, expensive wastes of your time. Yeah, they're better than ports/mame - if you can get them to work. Fucking bullshit.

[yojo!]

I have to say, this format fucking sucks. I've spent hundreds on a Supergun, RGB monitor, Batrider and Mr. Driller G PCB's, and I still can't play the games cause the SG is broken and no one can fix it - $325 US down the drain right there alone. .

What broke in your SG ?.

[PaCrappa]

I have to say, this format fucking sucks. I've spent hundreds on a Supergun, RGB monitor, Batrider and Mr. Driller G PCB's, and I still can't play the games cause the SG is broken and no one can fix it - $325 US down the drain right there alone. Keep in mind I'm in college and only work during summer/xmas break.

Harsh toke bro.

But since you put it the way that you did, I'll ask, why in the fucking world did you spend $325 on a supergun when cabinets can be had for less than that and you could build your own supergun (which you could then fix by yourself) for under $100? Furthermore, you knew that this was an incredibly expensive branch of the videogaming hobby yet you chose to get involved whilst at college and only working in the summertime? Getting into jamma/arcading at home while not being properly informed and financed is dumb. I'm willing to bet you knew it beforehand.

There's so much good shit on consoles that you shouldn't waste your time spending hundreds on games sold 'as-is' from ebay shmucks/hong kong based retailers who have no problem selling you bootlegs.

Why are you telling people what they should do with their time and money? I assume you're aware that there are plenty of successful jamma enthusiasts at this forum? I've purchased plenty of jamma boards through ebay as well as all of the prominent HK sites and lost only $60 on one bootleg in my first transaction with Coinopexpress because I was too foolish to specify that I didn't want an "economy version". Live and learn. I hope you will.

Not to mention you have to keep them in that bubblewrap and one little zap of static electricity will destroy them. Huge, fragile, expensive wastes of your time. Yeah, they're better than ports/mame - if you can get them to work. Fucking bullshit.

If taking care of personal possessions is such a problem, why in the world did you buy jamma gear? Did you think you just throw naked circuit boards into a shoebox when you're not using them and expect them to work next time? Are you even for real?

You tell this story as though anybody that wants to be into home arcading is some kinda dumbass that should just give up now and do the smart thing by diverting all available funds toward console gaming. It ain't like that.

I'd be alot more sympathetic about it and trying my best to be helpful if you weren't so totally 'sour grapes' over the whole thing.

Pa

[Neon]

But since you put it the way that you did, I'll ask, why in the fucking world did you spend $325 on a supergun when cabinets can be had for less than that and you could build your own supergun (which you could then fix by yourself) for under $100?

Don't have space for a cab; don't want to get electrocuted.

Finances don't matter, all I wanted to play was Batrider really.

Why are you telling people what they should do with their time and money?

Not giving orders, just advice. You had a positive experience and that's dandy, this is what happened to me.

I'd be alot more sympathetic about it and trying my best to be helpful if you weren't so totally 'sour grapes' over the whole thing.

Can you blame me? Spent close to $500 and I still don't have Batrider running properly. SG was advertised as working and now it doesn't.

Not fishing for sympathy here, just saying, how stupid is that? Fucking ridiculous.

What broke in your SG ?.

God knows. Everyone told me to get a monitor with vertical hold and I did, still doesn't work. Not that I'm ragging on the people who gave me help, it's just that if your shit doesn't work the only option is to try to describe it on an internet forum.

[neorichieb1971]

I've had similar bad experiences.

Like -

Built a supergun, attenuation circuit resistor solder broke while twisting an RCA cable onto the audio out giving amplified audio to my TV, sound on TV is now garbled above 10% volume.

Bought a PVM-2530 RGB Sony monitor, had geometry issues with it. Looked crisp, but wavey so that was a waste of $200 (mostly shipping expenses).

Bought a Capcom Impress, dude sent it broken and yellow freight pronged the cab with a forklift... Cab monitor has since developed a strange symptom of wobbling, probably an easy fix but I don't know how to fix it.

Not to mention other silly things like trying to get galaga working on my cab and the screen displaying upside down.



Ive had some very positive experiences, Matsu sent me 2 Astro cities which worked like a charm.. Never had any probs at all.


I recommend never buying old things unless you know the seller pretty well. In the Jamma business, try not to save too much money and beware that in some cases, these boards are supposed to die.. so don't be surprised if they are dead. And also beware that in alot of cases, the technical assistance to fix a problem is probably not local.

[oxtsu]

Spent close to $500 and I still don't have Batrider running properly. SG was advertised as working and now it doesn't.

Not fishing for sympathy here, just saying, how stupid is that? Fucking ridiculous.

Really though?

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6384

Everyone told me to get a monitor with vertical hold and I did, still doesn't work. Not that I'm ragging on the people who gave me help, it's just that if your shit doesn't work the only option is to try to describe it on an internet forum.

In your latest complaint, it's obvious to be a faulty power supply or loose wire. If you don't have the skills to fix it, maybe ask someone here to do it for you.

[Neon]

Ya didn't read the linked thread, though:

The supergun has one minor issue with the power supply / internal power cable. Sometimes the power is cut off after powering up [casuing the PCB to reset, usually] if the supergun has been jolted around, but this can easily be solved by simply opening the lid and closing it again.

That to me says 'all you have to do is open and close the lid and it'll work fine,' not 'good luck getting it to work, ahaha!'

Though I was trying not to make click look like a bad guy since he's not really around anymore and I doubt it's his fault (prob. got bumped around in shipping).

If someone can fix the SG (I'll pay labour, parts, shipping etc...somehow) I'd happily retract the entire rant. I'm without a soldering iron or milliameter or anything here so I'm utterly unable to fix it even if I knew what was wrong.

[iatneH]

If you don't have the skills to fix it, maybe ask someone here to do it for you.

Or get the skills to fix it yourself

I built my first supergun for around $150 including a 2-player joystick. Half of that cost was a J-ROK video convertor. I'll be working on my 3rd supergun, and I find new ways to cut down my costs every time. I had computer power supplies given to me for free, and a PS1 for free which I can use instead of the J-ROK.

As far as the technical skills go, everything I know about electronics was learned from a summer course my parents sent me to while I was in elementary school. It's not hard stuff.

And yes, it's not all blue skies and rainbows, my 2nd supergun broke once. But because I built it, I knew where it broke and I was able to repair it myself.

[system11]

The genuine arcade hardware experience demands the following things:

1) Money. Lots of it.
2) Care and attention looking after them.
3) Either electronics knowledge, or the willingness to learn and get your hands dirty. People who really are interested will find it's not that hard to learn how to repair older boards too - I picked up basic logic electronics from talking a little to two people who knew it, and reading datasheets. I have repaired over 100 boards now.
4) Depending on what you want, space.

If you can't meet the above, leave it to the people who can.

Superguns are not the best way really. If you have floorspace for a dedicated monitor, you pretty much already use the same floorspace as a cab does. A cab generally speaking is much better for your boards. For starters, the power supplies are built for the job - not hacked PC PSU looms, and they all have +5v adjust. Secondly, it's pretty fucking hard to spill your drink or drop something metal on the PCB, when it's inside a cab. An extra benefit to this method is using a screen the games are designed to be plugged into, if the screen is in good condition, you'll always be able to get a perfect picture - not always the case with (for example) old home computer monitors.

In your case - a supergun is incredibly simple inside. It's just a power supply, some switches (and maybe resistors), and lots of wire. If you can't understand how it works, or can't be bothered to learn, you failed rule 3) above.

[PaCrappa]

Ya didn't read the linked thread, though:

The supergun has one minor issue with the power supply / internal power cable. Sometimes the power is cut off after powering up [casuing the PCB to reset, usually] if the supergun has been jolted around, but this can easily be solved by simply opening the lid and closing it again.

That to me says 'all you have to do is open and close the lid and it'll work fine,' not 'good luck getting it to work, ahaha!'.

Seriously? Because to me that says "Faultyass supergun just waiting to croak permanently, do not buy." Pure, uncut common sense. Maybe that's why my experiences have been positive?

Has Maddox been contacted about this yet?

Pa

[GaijinPunch]

Basically what PaCrappa and Bloodflowers said. It's not a hobby for the cheap and/or non-tech savvy. I understand the frustration.... I bought my Sigma for some $400 at one point, and Ketsui quit working. Panicking, I went back to Mak and asked WTF, and which point they determined it was the video cable. Scared the shit out of me.

But, as far as I'm concerned, there's really only one SuperGun woth buying if you're going to buy one and not make it. Even if it costs you $200 more, it's worth it.

[it290]

The Sigma? What about the Blast City gun? ---ok, maybe not worth buying I guess, but if I was loaded I'd want one for sure.

[PsikyoPshumpPshooterP]

its one's person fault and only one person:


Great job , MATT


your services truly SUCK.

[Neon]

its one's person fault and only one person:


Great job , MATT


your services truly SUCK.

I wouldn't be that quick, I did get it secondhand after all. He made me some RGB cables around a year ago and they're still working, quality workmanship overall.

Damn Pa, you really do have a temper.

Anyways some good points, I know a few people with soldering irons so I'll see what I can do.

[Dave_K.]

May be shotty workmanship, but without proof, we can't blame Matt (who rarely even frequents these boards anymore). For all we know Click stepped on it, or kicked it or dropped it (like we all do accidentally with consoles that sit on the living room floor), and it start resetting intermittantly.

I'll admit, paying $325 for a SG with known resetting problem was not the best decision, but I see how Neon trusted Click and Matt.

We've all made bad investments Neon, and I know you are just venting in this thread (I'd do the same thing). To fix it properly, you need to find someone local to you who knows about arcade cabs, and can do some simple diagnosis on the power supply. As Bloodflowers pointed out, SG's are quite simple, and constructed of just a few parts. Replacing the power supply should only run you $15-$20. Checking the continuity of the harness lines, and grounds, should only take a couple minutes.

Sorry if I led you down the wrong path with the adjustable monitor, but you didn't say anything about the supergun resetting before, and I really don't see how that would affect the vertical sync output of the PCB.

[Neon]

Sorry if I led you down the wrong path with the adjustable monitor, but you didn't say anything about the supergun resetting before, and I really don't see how that would affect the vertical sync output of the PCB.

Your help is much appreciated and I don't mind having an extra RGB monitor anyway. Just frustration talking ^_~

[raiden]

you can open the Supergun and see all the cables, right? Here´s what I would do: either
- buy a NEW Jamma connector and all the other parts in it, learn soldering properly, and then go ahead and build a 2nd Supergun after the model of the one you already have. It´s very probably a cold solder or otherwise loose connection in there, but by using new parts your Supergun will work much more reliably than after repairing it, AND you gain the necessary knowledge in the process to repair it if anything happens later on.
- IF that doesn´t help, you could also buy a replacement power supply. You might like to do that first, but it´s less likely to help, chances are maybe 10:1 the error is at a connection part of the Supergun itself.

[neorichieb1971]

Are you sure its a solder problem?

If he's getting a picture and just the vertical hold/sync is not working properly that says to me everything is working/connecting. It doesn't sound like the PSU either.

What exactly is the problem Neon? Do you get audio? Do you get a picture at all?

[Wanderer]

its one's person fault and only one person:


Great job , MATT


your services truly SUCK.

In Matt's shmups forum heyday he provided an invaluable service of system mods, custom cables & superguns for many past and current forum members. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience, but I dont feel your sentiments are representative of the services he provided here for many years.

I may be biased (Matt is a personal friend), but I feel the need to comment as Matt is not active on the forums to defend himself.

[raiden]

the sync problem may be caused by a loose sync wire or something else, but the resetting is almost sure to be a solder problem as it happens with different games. Theoretically, the PSU could be too weak, but as it was sold used and worked before, that is unlikely.
Solder problems are common with amateur built devices, especially after transportation, and as Neon posted before, moving the Supergun had an influence on functionality. That´s more than just hinting at a solder problem.

[neorichieb1971]

Ok so let me get this right.. you disconnect the sync wire and the screen is going to roll?

[Turrican]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=712

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=8625#8625

I have more respect for a guy that own one pcb, than 400 games per system.

Glad to see you're getting smarter with time.

[GaijinPunch]

your services truly SUCK.

You're a joke.

May be shotty workmanship, but without proof, we can't blame Matt (who rarely even frequents these boards anymore). For all we know Click stepped on it, or kicked it or dropped it

Wait a minute. Is this the one that Click sold, and even said it had problems?

[Neon]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=712

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=8625#8625

I have more respect for a guy that own one pcb, than 400 games per system.

Glad to see you're getting smarter with time.

Well generally speaking, the PCB guy could be a complete rapist or something. Huge hoards of games you never play still make little sense to me (though I do it to an extent). I prefer playing to collecting.

I've got a fever/stuffy nose/sore throat which might be the reason for this thread. Theoretically PCB's should be fucking sweet once I get em working.

[raiden]

Ok so let me get this right.. you disconnect the sync wire and the screen is going to roll?

not necessarily, different monitors handle that differently. But a loose contact means the connection is sometimes on, and sometimes off. If the screen is rolling at a constant speed, without changes when moving the Supergun, it´s probably something else.

[D]

I also recommend a cab. Who wants all those wires and circuit boards out in the open?
We'll help you get the sg fixed. If I had more credit I'd say send it to me, but I live in the Netherlands.
Arcade pcb's jamma stuff is not that difficult, I mean common a wire for every button, what could be easier? I mean most consoles have different buttons running through the same wire encoded even. For your next purchases, next moves just ask us and if no-one else replies with useful info I will. Try to find enthousiats in your area. They will probably help you since there's not alot of us out there, especially not in the Netherlands Good luck and vent all you want. It is good to warn others who might feel the same disappointment.
Are you selling the Driller board yet? Just kidding, although there is some honesty in that request

[PsikyoPshumpPshooterP]

he fucked up my ps2 mod 1 month after he charged me around $150 for chip, installation, and shipping...had to send it back...told me he couldnt fix the problem,...thought it was a laser problem..threw down another $80 bucks for a laser...waited a month for the laser from HK..he installed the laser, stil didnt work...held onto my ps2 for another MONTH, then told me he was gonna buy a refurbished ps2 somewhere else and do the mod then...had to thrown down anther $100 bucks..all tgoether it took 3 months, and $330 for a mod that stopped reading blue disks after 4 months...

[dpful]

You have to build superguns yourself.
There's no other way to maintain them, know how they work, fix easy problems with them. Once you learn how they work, they are simply a string of components with wires going directly to them, doing the jobs they do- super easy to fix, easy to identify which components don't work and replace them.

The one think I didn't know how to do when I made mine was how to make the video convertor for NTSC. Matt sent me a part that did that.

So.... Really sorry about all the dough you spent- when you finally give up and are ready to call it lost money, take the thing apart, do some research, and than put it back together again working. That's the proccess I've gone through a few times.

Post on the hardware forum for help with that

[dpful]

Oh yeah, also, don't be scared of cabs- if you've got the space, they're like self contained super guns. Seriously, if you can fit one in the space you would put your desk, pcb, supergun, monitor-- get one.
First stop is local distributors who have got to have as least one 19" cab from the 80's that still works and will sell you for cheap-- like 50 to 200$

[Ord]

I got into the pcb/cab side of gaming a little over 2 years ago, and I have had not one single regret. The few problems that I did have got fixed quite quickly, thanks to the help of other forum members, and learning how a particular aspect of the cab works and fixing it is incredibly rewarding.
I really love arcade gaming and i'll be doing it for years to come.