Building the best GameCube setup (NTSC/PAL/480p etc.)

[PascalP]

So I need some advice on getting my GameCube setup in the best possible way.

This is the hardware I have at my disposal:
- PAL cube with digital port
- RGB cable
- NTSC cube with digital port
- Component cable
- Pioneer PDP-V402 display, support 240p/480i/480p all via BNC and VGA

What I want is to display supported games in 480p/60Hz, and those which don't support it 480i/60Hz.
So my best bet would be to play mostly NTSC games instead of their PAL counterparts.

But what to do with the hardware?

Option 1;
Mod the PAL cube to play NTSC imports and I can connect it via component as well as via RGB scart

Option 2;
Just use the NTSC cube and have component only (no RGB support)

Option 3;
Build some kind of hybrid cube?
I read here on the forum some user had a PAL motherboard and a NTSC drive to play NTSC games with RGB.
I changed out the drive from the NTSC cube to the PAL cube, but it will still only load PAL discs, so maybe this is not the way to go...



And as my display does not support component, what would be the best way to connect the Cube?
Via some kind of component -> VGA adapter box or hack the cable and mod it for VGA?
Will those component -> VGA boxes add additional lag?
Does the cube also display 480i over component for those games which do not support 480p?

[Lawfer]

What games are you interested in playing on the GameCube mainly? Give us the titles.

[PascalP]

There only are a few PAL titles which support 480p without forcing it via Swiss and most of the NTSC titles do support it out of the box, so that has my preference

But the games I'm most interested is not much specifically, mostly the 'mainstream' cube titles like Mario, Zelda, F-Zero, Resident Evil, Metroid

[Lawfer]

But the games I'm most interested is not much specifically, mostly the 'mainstream' cube titles like Mario, Zelda, F-Zero, Resident Evil, Metroid

All of which are NTSC games, meaning these games are best played in their original form, so go and pick up a US copy of the games you want and play them on a US DOL-001 GameCube with component cables. Also worth nothing is that:

- The Pioneer PDP might be good for 320x240 games, old Computer games or FM Towns Marty games, but remember that it is a a 640x480 screen, while GameCube is a 720x480 console.

- The GameCube Digital Port Native Output is YPbPr, that's just how the console was designed, so the best course of action is to stick with YPbPr. Euro GameCube might give RGB, but that's only in analogue port.

And as my display does not support component, what would be the best way to connect the Cube?

Does the cube also display 480i over component for those games which do not support 480p?

The Component cables can be used for both 480p and 480i, you can play The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess with component cables in both 480i and 480p.

[PascalP]

Just checked the manual to be sure, and only Analog RGB is supported, either via BNC or via D-sub/VGA
And yes, I want to stick to the system where the games are designed for, the Gamecube is the last console I have running in PAL, all others I switched over to NTSC version.

So with the component cable I would have no issue for those few NTSC games which don't support it, just need to figure out now how to connect it to my display.

[Lawfer]

Just checked the manual to be sure, and only Analog RGB is supported, either via BNC or via D-sub/VGA

What about the picture I posted that shows the "YUV" connection?

So with the component cable I would have no issue for those few NTSC games which don't support it, just need to figure out now how to connect it to my display.

I have yet to come across a GameCube game that does not work with the Component cables, by "not supporting it" are you talking about "480p"? If that's the case, quite a bit of games don't support 480p and so you just play them in 480i with the component cables.

[PascalP]

This is what the connection on my Pioneer look like;

[PascalP]

So with the component cable I would have no issue for those few NTSC games which don't support it, just need to figure out now how to connect it to my display.

I have yet to come across a GameCube game that does not work with the Component cables, by "not supporting it" are you talking about "480p"? If that's the case, quite a bit of games don't support 480p and so you just play them in 480i with the component cables.[/quote]

Yes, that's what I mean

[PascalP]

This is what the manual says on the inputs;


RGB Input
1 BNC Terminal R, G, B (fixed to 75 W input)
Analog R, G, B (fixed 75 W input, G-on Sync input)
HD (H/V SYNC), VD (switching between 75 W /2.2 kW
input)
Switch VD according to the sync output impedance
of the connector. Switch VD to 2.2 kW except when
the sync output impedance is 75 W. (The terminal is
factory-set to 75 W.)

2 Mini Dsub 15P
Analog RGB, 0.7 Vp-p, 75 W input, G-on Sync input
(Sync 0 - 3 Vp-p)
Synchronization:
HD, VD 2.2 kW input, 2.0 - 5.0 Vp-p (Positive/Negative),
G-on Sync switch (G-on Sync ON/OFF Change over)
Turn the switch on only if images become greenish
(when the G-on Sync signal is applied) at RGB2 input.
Under normal circumstances, the switch is left off.
(The switch is factory-set to G-on Sync OFF.)

[blizzz]

All of which are NTSC games, meaning these games are best played in their original form, so go and pick up a US copy of the games you want and play them on a US DOL-001 GameCube with component cables.

It doesn't matter if you play the NTSC or PAL version. Aside from language differences they're identical when you run them at 480p 60Hz. You'll just need homebrew on the PAL cube since the games only offer a 50 / 60 Hz switch and not interlaced / progressive like NTSC games. Not all PAL games can be forced to run at 60 Hz though, like Ikaruga and Tales of Symphonia. Overall it's probably easier to get an NTSC cube.

To get RGBHV out of a cube you'll either need to mod the component cable or get a YPbPr > RGBHV converter. Not sure which one would work well there.

[Lawfer]

All of which are NTSC games, meaning these games are best played in their original form, so go and pick up a US copy of the games you want and play them on a US DOL-001 GameCube with component cables.

It doesn't matter if you play the NTSC or PAL version.

Actually, it does.

[blizzz]

Care to explain?

[Lawfer]

This is what the manual says on the inputs;


RGB Input
1 BNC Terminal R, G, B (fixed to 75 W input)
Analog R, G, B (fixed 75 W input, G-on Sync input)
HD (H/V SYNC), VD (switching between 75 W /2.2 kW
input)
Switch VD according to the sync output impedance
of the connector. Switch VD to 2.2 kW except when
the sync output impedance is 75 W. (The terminal is
factory-set to 75 W.)

2 Mini Dsub 15P
Analog RGB, 0.7 Vp-p, 75 W input, G-on Sync input
(Sync 0 - 3 Vp-p)
Synchronization:
HD, VD 2.2 kW input, 2.0 - 5.0 Vp-p (Positive/Negative),
G-on Sync switch (G-on Sync ON/OFF Change over)
Turn the switch on only if images become greenish
(when the G-on Sync signal is applied) at RGB2 input.
Under normal circumstances, the switch is left off.
(The switch is factory-set to G-on Sync OFF.)

You could MAYBE get to work by hooking the GameCube component cables in there:



Though you should get confirmation from Fudoh since he has like 3-4 of these, he might know wether it could work or not.

Care to explain?

These games went through a conversion process that basically butchered the games to make them fit unto the "PAL" format, PAL60 is not the same as the original NTSC signal either, it's not a fix either but a workaround. Really if you plan on playing Japanese and US games you should just stick with US versions, really no reason to waste good money on PAL versions when in this day and age you can easily get US versions through ebay and the TC already has a US GameCube anyways with the component cables to go with it. Not only that, most PAL GameCube games had the 480p support gutted from their during thei "PAL" conversions, just another downgrade to add to the list of downgrades.

[PascalP]

OK, I will try this over the weekend, I know I have 1 or 2 RCA -> BNC adapters.
Maybe it would display something (with missing colors of course without all 3 wires connected).
But honestly I doubt it, no mentioning of YUV, YPbpR supoort in the manual of the Pioneer nowhere.

That I want to use NTSC games is a fact, don't want to mess around with homebrew/forcing etc for PAL games.

[Lawfer]

OK, I will try this over the weekend, I know I have 1 or 2 RCA -> BNC adapters.
Maybe it would display something (with missing colors of course without all 3 wires connected).
But honestly I doubt it, no mentioning of YUV, YPbpR supoort in the manual of the Pioneer nowhere.

That I want to use NTSC games is a fact, don't want to mess around with homebrew/forcing etc for PAL games.

Don't you have another display you could use? Because, as I said the resolution of this display is not really appropriate for the GameCube (640x480 as opposed to 720x480) and the best thing for the GameCube would be to retain it's original YPbPr output when possible (well technically the DOL-001 GameCube original output is YCbCr, but it gets converted to YPbPr when it passes through the cable).

If NOT, you will have to resort to converting the YPbPr signal to RGBHV... Either by modding the GameCube component cable itself for RGBHV (due to it's price and value, this is not recommended) or hook the GameCube RCA component connectors into something like a transcoder to convert the YPbPr signal into RGBHV.

Also now that I think about it, the PDP-V402 can't do interlaced, can it? So you won't be able to play the GameCube games that can not do 480p. The only way would be to force GameCube games that have no 480p support into outputting in 480p by modding your console with a "QooB" modchip.

[tacoguy64]

I was going to suggest another monitor as well.
A nice crt with components inputs will probably give you the best results.
I don't have component cables for my GCN but I have hooked up my Wii U with component cables to my BVM and played some 480p Wii games and let me tell you it was the best I've ever seen it look. I have no doubt the GCN would look just as nice.

[Lawfer]

I have no doubt the GCN would look just as nice.

Actually, I can confirm that GameCube games on the GameCube through the official Nintendo component cables on a broadcast monitors such as the BVM look even better than that.

[PascalP]

The Pioneer can do 480i, no problem there. (Could be it upscales it to 480p internally, no idea, but i can feed it 480i)
I could test the component on my LCD, but I don't want to use that for retro gaming
I have another display in storage, NEC XM29, but I don't know if this does component, will check

I think I'll order one of these for the Pioneer;
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7113

[tacoguy64]

I can confirm to you that your NEC does not do component.
You will need a converter like the GARO for that capability.

Also wth? your NEC is in storage? what a travesty!

[Lawfer]

Well, seems you're all set then.

But technically to get the "best" GameCube setup one would have to resort to modding. Aside from modding your console with a modchip to force 480i-only games to run in 480p with a QooB modchip, one could also get digital sound out of the GameCube rather than the official stereo RCA analogue audio output (not only that, some GameCube games support surround sound), however unlike the PS2 and the Original Xbox, the GameCube does not have any official way of getting digital sound out of it, but you can mod a cable to get the digital sound out of the digital port.

[Ikaruga11]

Aside from modding your console with a modchip to force 480i games to run in 480p with a QooB modchip

An easier method is just using the homebrew program Swiss on Datel's SD Media Launcher to force 480i-only games to run in 480p.

the GameCube does not have any official way of getting digital sound out of it, but you can mod a cable to get the digital sound out of the digital port.

or get the GCVideo HDMI mod.

[PascalP]

I can confirm to you that your NEC does not do component.
You will need a converter like the GARO for that capability.

Also wth? your NEC is in storage? what a travesty!

GARO might be a good idea, didn't think of that, was only looking at those cheap monoprice/china convertors.
With the GARO I could also output scart and run it through my gscartsw like I do with the Dreamcast/TORO

And about the NEC, yeah, had to make some choices due to the available space I have currently for my set-up, once I have the basement ready I will make that my game room.
Ideally setup the Pioneer and NEC side by side, one in TATE, one in YOKO

Well, seems you're all set then.

But technically to get the "best" GameCube setup one would have to resort to modding. Aside from modding your console with a modchip to force 480i-only games to run in 480p with a QooB modchip, one could also get digital sound out of the GameCube rather than the official stereo RCA analogue audio output (not only that, some GameCube games support surround sound), however unlike the PS2 and the Original Xbox, the GameCube does not have any official way of getting digital sound out of it, but you can mod a cable to get the digital sound out of the digital port.

i will look into that, but in my current setup I have a stereo amp and stereo speakers.
In my future setup like described above a 4.0 setup might be feasible.

[citrus3000psi]

Since you are using a flat screen already, would the best setup not be:

a modded Cube with GC video - > Low Lag TV

[beharius]

I have the same display too. Best would be modding the component cable for VGA output, since Pioneer doesn't have a component input or using a GARO. It adds scanlines too.
With Garo you can also use other devices with component output.

[tacoguy64]

I have the same display too. Best would be modding the component cable for VGA output, since Pioneer doesn't have a component input or using a GARO. It adds scanlines too.

How nice doe the Pioneer perform for GCN?

I can confirm to you that your NEC does not do component.
You will need a converter like the GARO for that capability.

Also wth? your NEC is in storage? what a travesty!

GARO might be a good idea, didn't think of that, was only looking at those cheap monoprice/china convertors.
With the GARO I could also output scart and run it through my gscartsw like I do with the Dreamcast/TORO

And about the NEC, yeah, had to make some choices due to the available space I have currently for my set-up, once I have the basement ready I will make that my game room.
Ideally setup the Pioneer and NEC side by side, one in TATE, one in YOKO

Well, seems you're all set then.

But technically to get the "best" GameCube setup one would have to resort to modding. Aside from modding your console with a modchip to force 480i-only games to run in 480p with a QooB modchip, one could also get digital sound out of the GameCube rather than the official stereo RCA analogue audio output (not only that, some GameCube games support surround sound), however unlike the PS2 and the Original Xbox, the GameCube does not have any official way of getting digital sound out of it, but you can mod a cable to get the digital sound out of the digital port.

i will look into that, but in my current setup I have a stereo amp and stereo speakers.
In my future setup like described above a 4.0 setup might be feasible.

Yeah man, you gotta remeber that the GCN came out at the time when CRT was still king, right before HDTV started to take over. Not that GCN can't look nice one a good flat panel, but if you want best image quality for the system, I still believe a nice crt is the way to go for that system, and you already have a great crt monitor.

[PascalP]

I definitely don't want to add a LCD to my setup, did own a xRGB-mini and compared it to the PVM-2730QM I also still own, and sold the xRGB afterwards.
So the GC will be hooked up either to the Pioneer or to the NEC, which both don't have component.

So I see 3 options now:
- Buy a transcoder, GARO or China, but how does this support 240p on GC?
- Mod the component cable to VGA
- Mod the cube with a GCvideo Analog and use a Wii RGB scart cable

[Ikaruga11]

i will look into that, but in my current setup I have a stereo amp and stereo speakers.

Yeah, you aren't going to get any benefits if you only have stereo equipment.

[beharius]

I don't have a component cable now, as far as I remember it was fine with the GC, only drawback of that display is the lack of black.. Pioneer can handle 480i too(as seen on the links below), all my games were running fine with the VGA modded Component cable. I tested it with the DC. Garo can handle all resolutions.

https://flic.kr/p/PnkHs1
https://flic.kr/p/PwUGQJ

[Extrems]

I have yet to come across a GameCube game that does not work with the Component cables

BMX XXX, but this can be worked around by momentarily unplugging the cable.

You'll just need homebrew on the PAL cube since the games only offer a 50 / 60 Hz switch and not interlaced / progressive like NTSC games. Not all PAL games can be forced to run at 60 Hz though, like Ikaruga and Tales of Symphonia.

I fixed those games a long time ago (2013).

[blizzz]

Great to hear! I was going by the compatibility list on the gc-forever wiki. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the 60 Hz yes/no column. Does it show which games have native 60Hz output, or which games can be forced to 60Hz?