Prelude to the Apocalypse

[BulletMagnet]

And how is it not on topic? You're accusing Trump of being a neocon puppet when the other option was the most blatant example of one possibly ever.

I wasn't even talking about that; I was talking about (and you responded to) the Bush team's (and now Trump's too) obsession with Islamic terror to the exclusion of almost everything else, as personified by Mattis. Some folks seem to think that this one-track approach to foreign policy is warranted; I strongly disagree, based in large part upon the results that Bush's administration reaped from it.

Now if you do want to go the "neocon shill" route, remember Trump's promises not to touch Medicare or Social Security? Guess what - he's now in favor of "modernizing" Medicare and "maximizing flexibility for States" when it comes to Medicaid, any guesses as to what he means there? And as to how long it'll be before Social Security joins them?

[Durandal]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... si-gabbard

Trump to meet with Tulsi Gabbard

President-elect Donald Trump is meeting on Monday with Democratic Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (Hawaii), who was one of the staunchest supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders's (I-Vt.) presidential campaign.

According to pool reports, Gabbard will meet with Trump Monday at Trump Tower in New York City, though there is no indication what the two will discuss.

One reporter for The New York Times tweeted that Gabbard was under discussion for U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

Trump's chief strategist, Stephen Bannon, is reportedly a big fan of Gabbard because of her right-leaning stances on guns, refugees and Islamic extremism.

Gabbard did not join the majority of her Democratic colleagues in co-sponsoring gun control legislation this summer.

She also voted in favor of a Republican-sponsored bill that requires refugees from Iraq and Syria receive background checks from the FBI.

And the congresswoman condemned Obama earlier this year for not referring to recent terror attacks as "Islamic extremism."

Gabbard stepped down from her post as a vice chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee to support Sanders in his presidential bid.

But after Hillary Clinton clinched the Democratic nomination, Gabbard said she would vote for Clinton over Trump.

huh

[supergrafx77]

After all the drama of Tulsi Gabbord having it out/quitting the Crooked DNC in disgust, thereby endorsing Bernie Sanders instead of Crooked Hillary:

This would be an "ultimate LOLz troll achievement unlocked," by Trump, against establishment Dems.
And not to quote McDonald's, but "I'm lovin' it."
Tulsi is great imo, and would be an excellent U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.
What a 'dream team,' this could be...
More and more, w/ each crafted decision coming from Trump daily, I am constantly reminded that we sure did "dodge a bullet," by not having Hillary win the WH.

[Mischief Maker]

Hope he doesn't offer her a tic tac.

[supergrafx77]

Hope he doesn't offer her a tic tac.

Still harping on that Bobby Bush video, Mischief?
Here you go buddy, have a whole pack for yourself, a gift to you from TRUMP.

[Skykid]

That hair really is an enigma.

[ED-057]

methinks the terms "war profiteer" and "mass murderer" belong in the same class of hyperbole

It's not hyperbole. People actually die in wars. There is no respawn.

At the state dept Clinton signed off on $billions of weapons sales to Saudi Arabia. Later, in a leaked email she acknowledges that they were funneling weapons to ISIS. (not to mention their attacks on Yemen.) She voted for the Iraq war, supported the attacks against Libya which led to its current status as "failed state," and spoke in favor of similar actions against Syria.

And of course, she has collected $millions in speaking fees, donations to the Clinton Foundation, and campaign contributions.

[quash]

I wasn't even talking about that; I was talking about (and you responded to) the Bush team's (and now Trump's too) obsession with Islamic terror to the exclusion of almost everything else, as personified by Mattis. Some folks seem to think that this one-track approach to foreign policy is warranted; I strongly disagree, based in large part upon the results that Bush's administration reaped from it.

He isn't focused exclusively on Islamic terror, but it's clearly the main priority and with good reason.

With the Phillipines starting to become more amicable towards China, we don't have as clear a picture as to what's going to happen as we did a year ago, but no doubt that there will be plenty of US presence here for years to come regardless.

Now if you do want to go the "neocon shill" route, remember Trump's promises not to touch Medicare or Social Security? Guess what - he's now in favor of "modernizing" Medicare and "maximizing flexibility for States" when it comes to Medicaid, any guesses as to what he means there? And as to how long it'll be before Social Security joins them?

He talked about modernizing Medicare and cross state insurance in the GOP debates. Having seen almost every Trump speech and interview, I'm having a hard time recalling when he ever said he was going to leave Social Security or Medicare alone.

[BulletMagnet]

Having seen almost every Trump speech and interview, I'm having a hard time recalling when he ever said he was going to leave Social Security or Medicare alone.

You can find several of his quotes to that end in this article, going all the way back to late 2015; that said, it appears you're correct that he was already proving himself a liar on this issue months ago. Either way, so far things are progressing exactly as I predicted they would; the "establishment" get a handjob, the rest of us get a kick in the balls.

[quash]

Until he proves otherwise, let's go with his stated position for the time being.

And what establishment are you referring to? Because already businesses are talking about bringing manufacturing back to the US.

[BryanM]

It's not hyperbole. People actually die in wars. There is no respawn.

Neoliberals like to pretend that social justice is somehow separate from economic justice.

Oh, and that wars you don't see aren't real. And that people who make something happen aren't responsible for that thing happening.

Only peasants and serfs are culpable for their actions, man. Obvious!

donations to the Clinton Foundation

RT is really nice on topics like this. (Which is probably why it's average age of viewership is lower than the ~63 years our propaganda outlets have.) They found the most annoying man in the world to make fun of how their donations suddenly and mysteriously dropped 90% after failing to win the election.

I wonder why that happened? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[EmperorIng]

I only tune in occasionally to RT. While it's nice to have a non-USA-dominated perspective in the news industry (that isn't achingly shallow like the BBC or meh as Al Jazeera) that is willing to expose fault lines in US social/foreign policy, it's a shame that that perspective comes from... the official mouthpiece of Moscow, which has its own blinkers on.

I've complained before in this thread at the lack of decent news outlets (I enjoy PBS/NPR though lol). Reading NYT/WaPost/Chicago Trib makes me feel moderately informed. Reading the various "magazine" sites (Atlantic, The Week, National Review) make me feel like i am inside a bubble... Speaking of which, it's no coincidence that a book by Atlantic writer Ta-Nehisi Coates is a prominent prop in that SNL sketch "The Bubble." Ho ho ho!

[BulletMagnet]

Until he proves otherwise

That's kinda what he does - hell, that's how we got here in the first place!

And what establishment are you referring to? Because already businesses are talking about bringing manufacturing back to the US.

My friend, I cannot wait until the numbers are in as to exactly where all the money will have gone during Trump's tenure. I cannot wait.

[quash]

You're avoiding the question. Who stands to benefit from a Trump presidency?

[BulletMagnet]

I've said this myriad times already, but what the heck - the same people who benefit under every conservative administration, namely the very wealthy (aka "the establishment" by everyone's definition except yours ). They receive the vast majority of the tax breaks, subsidies and other gifts, their businesses are heavily deregulated (this time around, among other things, you can probably say adios to net neutrality), and everyone else (very much including the middle class, which, I always like to remind people, shouldn't exist according to the tenets of economic conservatism) pays for it through reduced/eliminated entitlements and legal protections, in hopes of increased hiring/investment which never, ever materializes, even as the deficit explodes. Whatever cursory breaks from tradition Trump makes in terms of policy, especially considering the folks he's surrounding himself with, I can guarantee you that they will make exactly zero difference when it comes to who winds up (further) ahead at the end of the day, and again, I cannot wait until it becomes (more) evident that all the Kafkaesque "stick it to the man" rhetoric put Dubya 2.0 into office.

[quash]

the same people who benefit under every conservative administration, namely the very wealthy (aka "the establishment" by everyone's definition except yours ).

Therein lies the problem: not all of the very wealthy have the same goals. In fact, some of them have wildly different goals.

Certain industries are pleased by the prospect of a Trump presidency, while others (namely tech and auto) are less than enthused.

Like when I asked you who was behind Syria, name names. No more wish wash.

(this time around, among other things, you can probably say adios to net neutrality)

Net neutrality is already dead. The US forfeiting control of DNS infrastructure was the first step of ensuring this.

the middle class, which, I always like to remind people, shouldn't exist according to the tenets of economic conservatism

Technically true, but again, I'm not a conservative in any traditional sense of the word. Did I not make it clear earlier that the erosion of the middle class is one of the biggest problems we currently face?

pays for it through reduced/eliminated entitlements and legal protections, in hopes of increased hiring/investment which never, ever materializes

Because they've all been half assed efforts. Right now we have Apple of all companies talking about opening manufacturing plants in the US.

I cannot wait until it becomes (more) evident that all the Kafkaesque "stick it to the man" rhetoric put Dubya 2.0 into office.

He's not even in office yet lol. At the six month mark, we'll have enough to make a judgement, and I seriously doubt he's going to be nearly as bad as you and others have said he will be. At the very least, getting Russia amicable towards the US and finally working towards a resolution in Syria already puts him well above the alternative.

[Mischief Maker]

He's not even in office yet lol. At the six month mark, we'll have enough to make a judgement, and I seriously doubt he's going to be nearly as bad as you and others have said he will be.

Well there seems to be some sort of X-Ray vision specs that Trump voters who aren't hooting neo-nazis are wearing that allow them to tell the difference between when the words that he says are his actual policy goals, and when it's just "rhetoric" to get votes from the rubes.

Can I have a pair? I'd seriously like to know what the hell we're in for because judging by his past record and the company he keeps, we're headed somewhere very, very bad.

At the very least, can you tell me the person he's actually gonna put in charge of the EPA who isn't a climate change denier once we "give him a chance?"

Meanwhile a woman at the DAPL protests just had her arm blown off by a concussion grenade thrown directly at her by the cops.

[GaijinPunch]

Well there seems to be some sort of X-Ray vision specs that Trump voters who aren't hooting neo-nazis are wearing that allow them to tell the difference between when the words that he says are his actual policy goals, and when it's just "rhetoric" to get votes from the rubes.

They aren't really new glasses... they are just more noticeable now. They had a conservative on CNN last night that had a justification for everything. It was painful... b/c he truly believed it. If you think Trump is presidential and not at least a racist sympathizer, why can he go on a late night Twitter tirade against SNL or the Hamilton thing, but when a video of people that can be described only as the latest breed of white supremist nazis saying "Hail Trump" goes viral, he says nothing, and only "disavows" such a group after being pummeled by reporters?

[supergrafx77]

Meanwhile a woman at the DAPL protests just had her arm blown off by a concussion grenade thrown directly at her by the cops.

Thanks Obama...
Meanwhile, "Medal of Freedom Awards," to some 21 $$$ pandering neolib celebs, shall make this Native American rebellion dissipate, surely enough...
What a joke Obama is and was...
Obama is Halliburton 2.0 pro on steroids. Terrible President.

BTW, Getting into twitter arguments with Hillbots on Twitter is an excruciating process:
Bring up the facts concerning Obama's failed tenure, and responses are like:
"First Black President." ; "He has two beautiful children." ; "Michelle is such a strong black woman."
And now, the tears that follow, by the neoslave masses, watching Ellen Degenerous cry, as she accepts her Medal of Freedom Award, since Julian Assange;Edward Snowden, etc.., weren't there to accept.

[Bananamatic]

twitter arguments

why would you do this to yourself

[BryanM]

Tell them Obama's legacy is that we elect game show hosts as president now.

They had a conservative on CNN last night that had a justification for everything.

Of cooooourse.

It's why I was so dismissive of that super weird "he's gonna have to deliver on his promises to his voters now!" idea.

If there are people willing to ignore every single horrible thing about Clinton and the Obamas, the same is true of Trump. Most people voting for this shit just want an asshole that waves his dick around on TV and they'll be happy. Or were picking the "lesser evil". Because if you wanted to make the country less shitty, who were you supposed to vote for this time?

As a reminder, in true Clintonista logical fashion, the True Winner of this election was Nobody.

Meanwhile a woman at the DAPL protests just had her arm blown off by a concussion grenade thrown directly at her by the cops.

erm. Just in time for Thanksgiving.

That's the 'murica I know. For Cinco de Mayo they'll probably get something special together for the Mexicans.

The natives probably get this the worst since we've also got Columbus Day... possibly some others...

...

...

oh fuck, St. Patrick's Day.

Uh. Um... uh.

[GaijinPunch]

If there are people willing to ignore every single horrible thing about Clinton and the Obamas, the same is true of Trump.

Uhmmm... apples & oranges. We're talking about hate-spewing ass hats (KKK, David Duke, alt-right, etc.) actively endorsing Trump and LITERALLY fucking saying "Hail" while raising their right hands a la Nazi Germany. Then, the press has to pry a fucking statement out of him on these subjects (and AFAIK he said dick during the campaign), yet when someone pokes fun at his little hands or orange skin he won't shut the fuck up. How does anyone on the right think that that looks presidential... or even okay? Obama and Clinton of course have their issues, as all politicians due, but either of them (and even the Bush's) would have been far quicker to disassociate themselves. Then again, they aren't racist, so...

[supergrafx77]

If there are people willing to ignore every single horrible thing about Clinton and the Obamas, the same is true of Trump.

...............We're talking about hate-spewing ass hats (KKK, David Duke, alt-right, etc.) actively endorsing Trump and LITERALLY fucking saying "Hail" while raising their right hands a la Nazi Germany.

............... Obama and Clinton of course have their issues, as all politicians due, but either of them (and even the Bush's) would have been far quicker to disassociate themselves.
Then again, they aren't racist, so...

So GP: how is TRUMP a racist?
By your logic, I'm taking it, due to 'hate groups,' having endorsed him over the other choice in question, being "Open Borders Hillary?"
And Trump is somehow complicit, due to leaving the subject of some confederate racists fucks' support, just like his supposed influence by the "Russians," mute, during the general?
Which was being propagandized by Clinton Machine's tightly controlled MSM, at every chance possible...

TRUMP, throughout his campaign, was focused on nationalism. Enforcing borders and laws already in place, yet not being enforced.... clamping down on unrestrained illegal immigration.
Which no other country besides the US puts up with. Name one country that allows this? There is none.
Not sure about the current laws in Japan, but when I lived there in the 90s, try overstaying a 3 month tourist visa and watch your ass get deported and banned from entry for 7 years.
I hear in Mexico, they don't even deport right away, but rather lock people up.
Actually, just googled it to come correct:
"Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says, “A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally."

Every other country in the world, enforces immigration laws stringently and are not vilified as racists. EVERY OTHER COUNTRY.
The Joy Reid(s) & Jose Antonio Vargas(s) of the world, will easily spin nationalism that rust belt America is very much feeling, into a more sinister "white nationalism," connotation.
This has nothing to do with white nationalism, but indeed, everything to do with nationalism, in its right and now, due process.

[Damocles]

(this time around, among other things, you can probably say adios to net neutrality)

Net neutrality is already dead. The US forfeiting control of DNS infrastructure was the first step of ensuring this.

Lol. I don't think you know how that works.

[Mischief Maker]

So GP: how is TRUMP a racist?

Damn, your David-Horowitz-ization is proceeding faster than expected, Brundlefly.

Did you ever go to a Bernie rally? Listen to a Bernie speech? Watch a Bernie interview?

Because if you did any of those things chances are at some point you'd have heard him say this.

I never believed the conspiracy theorists who thought quash was a Russian troll, but the shocking ignorance you've shown of the words and policies of the candidate whose sign is your avatar makes me wonder if you weren't just a goosestepping Trump supporter all along using that avatar to sneak your arguments in under the radar.

[GaijinPunch]

So GP: how is TRUMP a racist?

By saying and doing racist things.
- Mexican immigrants are rapists
- Insisting a federal judge recuse himself from a case b/c he is of hispanic decent.
- Of course the birth certificate nonsense pointed out by MM
- Hinting at a muslim registry
- Pussy grabbing (okay, that one I just can't resist throwing in anywhere and everywhere).

#Presidential

By your logic...

High profile hate groups endorse him, and he says nothing. The cast of Hamilton peacefully ask Pence to consider their lifestyles when making policy, and he shits himself on Twitter. Knock yourself out w/ the math.

[supergrafx77]

So GP: how is TRUMP a racist?

Damn, your David-Horowitz-ization is proceeding faster than expected, Brundlefly.

Did you ever go to a Bernie rally? Listen to a Bernie speech? Watch a Bernie interview?

Because if you did any of those things chances are at some point you'd have heard him say this.

I never believed the conspiracy theorists who thought quash was a Russian troll, but the shocking ignorance you've shown of the words and policies of the candidate whose sign is your avatar makes me wonder if you weren't just a goosestepping Trump supporter all along using that avatar to sneak your arguments in under the radar.

I've pointed this out already in this thread, but will remind you again of Bernie's quote, from his own mouth:
"A country without borders, is a Koch Brothers' idea."
In some ways, Bernie considered himself, much more conservative than Hillary, as in, not crooked.

Bernie was always against illegal immigration, which is very detrimental to the working class of this country.

However, in running for President, as well as being a compassionate man in general, he came to the conclusion that if he had any chance of winning, he would have to show compassion to undocumented/illegal aliens and dreamers, already here.
That being said, after his "grand act of amnesty," he would of enforced immigration laws stringently, from that point forward, like every other country on the planet, BESIDES THE US, does.

I've been a BernieBro for years, before he even chose to run for Prez.
He was the real deal&still is.... Sorry if me and Bernie, are too conservative for you and Hillary, Mischief.
Bernie may call himself a "Democratic Socialist," I'm sure since it has a nice user friendly ring to it, but I prefer, "Conservative Socialist," but to each their own.

That being said:
This just happened yesterday/Tuesday.
Looks like GP&Mischief's boy, Mark Cuban, has turned over to the "racist side."
Seen here with (OMFG!) STEVE BANNON:

[GaijinPunch]

In some ways, Bernie considered himself, much more conservative than Hillary, as in, not crooked.

[supergrafx77]

So GP: how is TRUMP a racist?

GP: By saying and doing racist things.

GP:- Mexican immigrants are rapists ----------

supergrafx: some of the illegal Mexican immigrants rape US citizenry.

GP:- Insisting a federal judge recuse himself from a case b/c he is of hispanic decent.

supergrafx:thought judge would be biased due judge's past known statements/opinions.

GP:Of course the birth certificate nonsense pointed out by MM --

supergrafx:Some of Obama's own family members say he wasn't born here, so... I could see CIA doctoring certificate up. Took long enough to come out. Longer than Trump's taxes will, that's for sure.

GP:Hinting at a muslim registry----

supergrafx:sound's like a good idea to me. Muslim School near me is scary as shit, school books flown in from Saudia Arabia, teaching US residing Muslim youth that killing infidels is cool.

GP:Pussy grabbing (okay, that one I just can't resist throwing in anywhere and everywhere). ----

supergrafx:Locker Room Talk, sounds also nice, and what's the big deal if it's totally invited and consensual. Trump said the girls, let him do wtf he wants, so doesn't constitute rape. Sounds good to me.

GP:#Presidential

supergrafx: #MAGA

By your logic...

GP: High profile hate groups endorse him, and he says nothing.

supergrafx: SO WHAT? OBAMA HASN'T SAID ANYTHING ON NORTH DAKOTA PIPELINE/ATROCITIES AGAINST NATIVE AMERICANS.

GP: The cast of Hamilton peacefully ask Pence to consider their lifestyles when making policy, and he shits himself on Twitter. Knock yourself out w/ the math.

Hamilton, OMG, so over-rated, a liberal piece of crap, that is what "Hamilton," is.
The cast does need to apologize. It's ok for the audience to have booed Pence, but actors/cast lecturing a paying customer from the audience and the VP ELECT, which tickets are no less than a $1000, very very disrespectful. Fuck that. Protest off the stage. Cast was pathetic/should be all fired.

[maximo310]

The funny thing is that it's not even a bad statement, and Pence was totally ok with it.

However, some people will find any reason to freak out and create drama, as highlighted by the " ughhh Hamiton sucks cuz its dopey hip hop crap and Hillary went to it" statement above. Pretty sad.