Prelude to the Apocalypse

[quash]

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/yo ... ying-wolf/

I can only hope the Democrats don't succumb to the Jacobin element of the party and instead run on a blue dog platform, though truth be told we're probably getting Tim Kaine in 2020.

[Ed Oscuro]

Kaine is a Jacobin, really? Do tell. I would be extremely surprised if he's the next nominee. He might go to the primary, but I'd think once you've gone black, you can't go back. Cory Booker for 2020! In all seriousness Biden might have more support than people suspect if he ran (spare me the "horrible Biden insider baggage" revelations for no; revelations didn't hurt Trump enough to sink him. Biden does have a folksy manner that could go far.)

Along with Bryan's complaint that Clinton's platform was "more of the same," it's pretty clear they weren't getting the message out. But people who were actually paying attention to the platform changes, and listened to what Clinton was actually talking about, noticed it wasn't at all a "more of the same" argument.

But I guess if we're to believe BryanM and everybody else who followed the campaigns through some random anti-$hrillary Facebook site, anything less than promising full-on Jacobin burnings of wigged elites and Trump-level "what have you got to lose, bet on green!" was reaffirming the status quo.

Or if you're quash, who doesn't realize that Trump's close adviser Bannon is one of the most outspoken anti-Wall Street speakers one can find. Or does it not count as a Jacobin tendency if it's aimed at the banks? In every other market this would be called government interference in the private sector by old-line conservatives.

Nevermind that even now the Dems are working on being the flexible party instead of aping the Republican "party of no" pattern, which has done the most damage to peoples' faith in government. This, despite the fact that Dems are still growing that popular mandate in terms of sheer votes.

There is a decent argument against making too much of Clinton's popular vote win, but with two historically unpopular candidates running this was far from a referendum on the policy planks of each party as they see them. So far, it seems the leaders of both parties are acknowledging this fact to some degree, and I hope that Trump will prove to be a "Nixon goes to China" kind of President, without so much of the dirty tricks.

[quash]

The implication I made is that the Democrats are so hilariously out of touch that they'll run another limp dick candidate and double down on guilt tripping their base.

They're the new Republicans.

Trump's close adviser Bannon is one of the most outspoken anti-Wall Street speakers one can find.

A valid observation, and one that's in line with what I've been saying all along: that Trump wants to change some of the same things that Bernie did. Granted, the methods are different and the end goals differ, but it's not like these kinds of goals can be entirely fulfilled within a single presidency.

[GaijinPunch]

The implication I made is that the Democrats are so hilariously out of touch that they'll run another limp dick candidate and double down on guilt tripping their base.

They're the new Republicans.

This is literally what the Republicans did last time... the time before that... and even this time... but a wild card jumped in and schooled everyone.

but it's not like these kinds of goals can be entirely fulfilled within a single presidency.

The pitch forks come out when they don't though. (I agree, they can't be realized in such a short time, but the masses don't give a shit).

[BryanM]

Ed is still defending someone who campaigned as Greg Stillson from the Dead Zone? He's blaming and insulting the voters again? Still not assigning the blame for the loss on the only person on the planet responsible for it?

A rather esoteric strategy.

"Treating voters like misbehaving schoolchildren rather than rational actors: probably the least-effective persuasion tactic of all time"

It should be no surprise that the main thing these explainers love to explain is “policy,” the more complicated the better. Policy wonks love policies because they get to explain them. Everyone else hates complicated policies, because everyone else has to be subjected to them. The more inscrutable and byzantine the policy (and the more confusing and misery-inducing those policies are for ordinary people), the more jobs there are for wonks. Hence the site’s ongoing love affair with the Affordable Care Act, which in its abstruseness, ineffectiveness, and elitism has every ingredient dear to the heart of the wonk.

^ This is basically New Democrats.txt

These (divisive) policies are designed to be hard to pass, easy to repeal, and empower the electorate in favor of the republicans. (Who are a minority at 40% of the population in the best of times.) The New Democrats argument against covering tuition in colleges again was quite triggering - "I don't want to pay for Trump's kids to go to college!"

* Trump's kids would never go to a public school full of plebeians.

* Trump will be paying for this program for other people's kids, so he should be able to use a program he's paying for.

* Trump's kids are human beings, too. There's a nonzero possibility their parents are jerks who won't ever pay for their kids' college.

* Why would you want to contribute to more division and segregation in society?

JFK did things so differently. That's what democrats are supposed to be.

They're the new Republicans.

Al From through Bill Clinton did this to us. They jacked the entire Overton Window to the extreme right. Heads they win, tails they win.

Republicans used to be sane.

And I'm apparently some whackjob anarchist for wanting to make them sane again, so we can stop being terrified by the Stormfront goons every single election. JFC.

27% more votes were cast for/against the Arizona marijuana legalization ballot proposition (2,483,370) than for HRC/Trump (1,957,404)

As just one example, the annual bonuses (not salaries, just the bonuses) of all Wall Street financial traders last year amounted to 28 billion dollars while the total income of all minimum wage workers in America came to 14 billion dollars. ... I'll stop there.

[supergrafx77]

[Ed Oscuro]

Ed is still defending someone who campaigned as Greg Stillson from the Dead Zone? He's blaming and insulting the voters again? Still not assigning the blame for the loss on the only person on the planet responsible for it?

There's that old saying "we get the leadership we deserve." It's pretty easy to sit here on the Internet and complain about how terrible the candidates are, isn't it?

As much as Trump seems to be making strides lately, a lot of people seem to have voted for Literally Hitler. I'm not going to say that's fine, because it's not. That doesn't mean Trump is Literally Hitler, but when was the last time the KKK came out and endorsed a candidate?

Yes, you guys have been way off base when it comes to Clinton. Sure, she lost, and I'm not going to deny that Elections Have Consequences, but that's not validation for every asinine conspiracy theory and character assassination thrown her way.

At the end of the day what matters are the policies, and we don't vote for policies, but people. That's what concerns me right now. Did people vote yes to fracking, repealing Dodd-Frank, grabbing pussy, putting Jeff Sessions for Attorney General? Well, gee, you tell me.

No, I don't think that smaller states' issues should be swept under the rug, but we've got another minority President.

Meanwhile Clinton's popular vote lead is a million votes higher than it was last time we checked in, and growing.

[Opus131]

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/yo ... ying-wolf/

I can only hope the Democrats don't succumb to the Jacobin element of the party and instead run on a blue dog platform, though truth be told we're probably getting Tim Kaine in 2020.

Great article. Trump being literally Hitler is a left-wing conspiracy theory, no more, no less.

[Bananamatic]

Did people vote yes to fracking, repealing Dodd-Frank, grabbing pussy, putting Jeff Sessions for Attorney General?

it's just banter dude

[Burningvigor]

Ed is still defending someone who campaigned as Greg Stillson from the Dead Zone? He's blaming and insulting the voters again? Still not assigning the blame for the loss on the only person on the planet responsible for it?

but when was the last time the KKK came out and endorsed a candidate?

No, I don't think that smaller states' issues should be swept under the rug, but we've got another minority President.

Meanwhile Clinton's popular vote lead is a million votes higher than it was last time we checked in, and growing.

When has anyone give a shit what the KKK says? Just cause some dumbass group endorses you, doesn't mean you support them.

The electoral system is here to stay so there's no point complaining about it. If all that matter was the popular vote, nobody would give a shit about any other state but the big ones. You can even argue that trump could have won the popular vote if he campaigned on that, but that wasn't his strategy. USA is not just California / new york.

Also there are a lot of rumor about voter fraud for Clinton, and with all the corruption that surrounds her(media bias, cheating, blackmailing, etc) I wouldn't doubt it myself.

[EmperorIng]

when was the last time the KKK came out and endorsed a candidate?

Ron Paul if I remember correctly, but he also told them to fuck off 4 years ago.

[GaijinPunch]

when was the last time the KKK came out and endorsed a candidate?

Ron Paul if I remember correctly, but he also told them to fuck off 4 years ago.

Nobody remembers the clip when Trump was asked about being endorsed by David Duke and or some racist shit heads and he just sat there like a deer in the headlights? There was no fuck off... which is weird b/c he's totally capable of saying those exact words in that order.

[Burningvigor]

when was the last time the KKK came out and endorsed a candidate?

Ron Paul if I remember correctly, but he also told them to fuck off 4 years ago.

Nobody remembers the clip when Trump was asked about being endorsed by David Duke and or some racist shit heads and he just sat there like a deer in the headlights? There was no fuck off... which is weird b/c he's totally capable of saying those exact words in that order.

Oh my god. You're so right. Trump is a secret member of the KKK and wants to kill everyone who isn't white.

Please tell me that's not what you're insinuating by that.

I recall later on Trump stated he was confused because he had no idea who that person was when asked that question.

[BryanM]

The polling indicated they were the two worst candidates the parties could select. If the republicans had picked nearly anyone else (except Jeb!, who can never win at anything), they'd have defeated Clinton by near double digits. If the democrats had picked anyone else, they'd have defeated Trump 5%+

This observation by an anon is a pretty good summation:

Hillary Clinton is everything I hate about politics. Donald Trump is everything I hate about people.

I do bash on Clinton more than Trump since I simply expect more from those people, but that doesn't mean Trump isn't human garbage, also.

The difference is day 1 you have pissed off people en masse in the streets. If Hillary Clinton won, more than half those people fall completely asleep.

While the global house of predatory capitalism burns across the world. If the only ones willing to stand up and say "fuck austerity" are the Nazis and Nazi-lite, and we smother the Sanderses and Corbyns in their sleep, what do you expect to have happen.

[Rob]

I recall later on Trump stated he was confused because he had no idea who that person was when asked that question.

Drink less Kool-Aid, bubber. When someone asks a question about "former KKK grand wizard David Duke", he can't claim to have "no idea who that person was". He won't say anything bad about any admirer, whether it's Putin or David Duke, because there's nothing he loves more than praise and has no moral values to uphold.

[Bananamatic]

I recall later on Trump stated he was confused because he had no idea who that person was when asked that question.

Drink less Kool-Aid, bubber. When someone asks a question about "former KKK grand wizard David Duke", he can't claim to have "no idea who that person was". He won't say anything bad about any admirer, whether it's Putin or David Duke, because there's nothing he loves more than praise and has no moral values to uphold.

as if you'd say something bad about someone with a kick ass title like "grand wizard"

[quash]

https://youtu.be/DeK-f3_7Wv4

[Rob]

Quash 2, Rob 0. Trump can be press-ganged into disavowing a former KKK grand wizard after all. Will wonders never cease.

[Ed Oscuro]

Don't worry, Jeff Sessions is ready to catch any slack from the KKK.

But yeah that "superpredators" thing from the 90s, man.

I recall later on Trump stated he was confused because he had no idea who that person was when asked that question.

Oh boy, it's like the campaign never ends. "Trump is just senile, give the ol' man a break."

And the point of "literally Hitler" seems to have been lost on everybody foaming at the mouth about a couple missteps Clinton apologized for throughout her 30 years+ in public service, while Trump has pushed the rules far harder than that. For example, just weeks ago everybody was in a froth about Clinton CCing her daughter on an email, but Trump just had his daughter sit in his first meeting with PM Abe, and it's a fair bet he actually did push for security clearances for most of his family, which would represent a far greater threat to state secrets. And meanwhile he's on track to be the least transparent and accountable President in recent times, leaving his press corps in the dark about his movements and trying to run things in the privacy of Trump Tower.

And here I am hoping it all works out somehow.

[quash]

https://youtu.be/8ZiI6kVkPXs

5D chess, bitches.

[quash]

and it's a fair bet he actually did push for security clearances for most of his family, which would represent a far greater threat to state secrets.

The younger you are, the easier it is to get a clearance. There's plenty of 18 year olds running around with unfettered access to state secrets. Let that one sink in.

[Lord Satori]

Why do you and Opus always double post? There's a god damned edit button for a reason!

[quash]

Different posts for different points. Why is your forum etiquette stuck in the early 2000's?

[Opus131]

when was the last time the KKK came out and endorsed a candidate?

Ron Paul if I remember correctly, but he also told them to fuck off 4 years ago.

Nobody remembers the clip when Trump was asked about being endorsed by David Duke and or some racist shit heads and he just sat there like a deer in the headlights?

Nobody cares. Trump was quite clearly trying to avoid playing the game of the media. He had already disavowed David Duke. He didn't need to disavow him again and again just so the media could keep the association in the mind of voters. Trump doesn't have a clear rhetoric to fight political correctness but he knows what it is and knows how to resist it on a instinctual level.

But seriously, everybody here should just read that article quash posted. You guys just seem incapable of learning. The more you push this crap, the more chances Trump has of winning in 2020 as well.

[austere]

He's blaming and insulting the voters again? Still not assigning the blame for the loss on the only person on the planet responsible for it?

I bet you're not surprised at all though. What's going to be both interesting and exquisitely entertaining to watch is the rapid descent of progressives towards madness as they realise that the public (including the youth who aren't indoctrinated) have rejected their new age religion.

Intense racism in the form of hatred towards white people disguised as tolerance.
Indoctrination and impairment of cognition disguised as education.
Hearsay and dogma disguised as science.
Suppression of news and an intricate web of fabrications disguised as news.
Nation wrecking and cultural genocides disguised as nation building.
Blood curdling humanitarian catastrophes disguised as humanitarian intervention.
Virtue signalling disguised as actual virtue.
Regression towards chaos and moral entropy disguised as progress against an "out dated" order.

Yet, now all these true believers have to cling on to are further and further dissimulation. The loss of the election SHATTERED their world, which is why they need coddling much like a kid who was just told that Santa wasn't real.

Will they learn and grow up? I don't think they will, thankfully. The Jok-- er..., Kaine vs Trump 2020 here we come!

But, stepping down for a second, I guess the more important question is will Trump himself learn the lesson of this fall from grace or will he be tempted by the idea of compromise with neo-conservatives along with their own viperous schemes?

Trump, unlike Clinton, enters the white house free of blood on his hands. How many days can he keep those hands clean? His assignment for the head of the CIA don-impress-eh-me-much, but I think the whole world will come together and give the US one last chance to clean up its act. Or war is clearly going to be inevitable.

The pitch forks come out when they don't though. (I agree, they can't be realized in such a short time, but the masses don't give a shit).

I think people should be patient while still holding him to account. If Trump is genuine (and that's a big if), it will take him his full term to "drain the swap". I'm just glad the American public are wise enough to keep things peaceful no matter what happens though. When chaos reigns, everyone loses with the exception of the people who instigate the problems in the first place. Even if you hate your government at least protect your peace.

[GaijinPunch]

The pitch forks come out when they don't though. (I agree, they can't be realized in such a short time, but the masses don't give a shit).

I think people should be patient while still holding him to account. If Trump is genuine (and that's a big if), it will take him his full term to "drain the swap". I'm just glad the American public are wise enough to keep things peaceful no matter what happens though. When chaos reigns, everyone loses with the exception of the people who instigate the problems in the first place. Even if you hate your government at least protect your peace.

They were not with Obama (Republicans one the midterms easily) and both sides agreed he started his term with "more work to do than any President in recent history".

My very undetailed overview:
-The swamp is not drained
-The wall is not built (and most of the outrageous claims made during election season will be defended as 'not meant to be taken literally')
-Economy (coin toss, actually)
-Supreme Court (conservative appointed)

If enough bad shit happens in the first year or so, Dems might actually show up for the midterm elections and get something done. If they get a majority in the senate, I fully expect them to cock block him at every turn, and the Republicans to actually cry fowl. If they don't (eg the economy stays stable [specifically unemployment], and Roe vs Wade and Gay Marriage are not altered) Republicans will keep the majority. Same variables apply at the end of the first term.

Honestly, I'm not really reassured that good stuff will happen as he can't even seem to get the transition committee working. But maybe that's ag ood thing.

[BryanM]

Ah, a brand new day. We still on our march to 3rd world status? Yes? Good good.

6 more terms of George W will surely turn things around

If they get a majority in the senate, I fully expect them to cock block him at every turn

The current rules of the senate require only 41 senators to block anything. It used to be a simple majority to pass something, but they changed the rules to ensure maximum gridlock.

A rule the republicans would happily throw to the wind with no fucks given. We have to rely on guys like Lindsay Graham of all people to let the democrats retain any power.

Expecting the democrats to actually block horrible things....... ...... .... .. . . ... .. maybe if you threw all of them out and got a brand new democratic party. But the fucks that are there don't have the best record. To put it mildly.

[GaijinPunch]

The current rules of the senate require only 41 senators to block anything. It used to be a simple majority to pass something, but they changed the rules to ensure maximum gridlock.

Haha.

But I was actually counter-pointing republicans having majority and doing fuck all for the last few years. My guess is loads more will get through. They can block the fillibuster now, no?

[Mischief Maker]

The question is whether they'll retain the fillibuster for the Democrats as a firewall against Trump's crazy without committing political suicide by defying him directly.

[austere]

My very undetailed overview:
-The swamp is not drained
-The wall is not built (and most of the outrageous claims made during election season will be defended as 'not meant to be taken literally')
-Economy (coin toss, actually)
-Supreme Court (conservative appointed)

This is the most likely scenario with some caveats. Wall will be a fence, there's not enough resources to rebuild Detroit let alone a huge wall of any sort. He's smart enough to build a big enough wall for the cameras though. The non-criminal illegals will likely be given amnesty as well to gain them as republicans rather than democrats.

Trump is a businessman, I think he will be far more pragmatic than people give him credit. I doubt he'll touch gay marriage, he already has the conservative vote mostly in his pocket. Economy though, will most likely collapse because the federal reserve intends to raise rates just as he takes power, which will tank everything.

Trump needs to end the war in the middle east, taking on Egypt as a close partner and not Saudi Arabia (which creates terrorism) as the neo-cons prefer. He's going to come under incredible pressure and I fear in this case his pragmatism will lead him to make strategic blunders that could take him from being a potentially historical statesman to just another bad nightmare for the world (and America). I hope General Flynn can take care of that angle, anyway.