Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

I don't think the modern NG games have any relation at all to the classic ones. Think of it as a reboot or whatevs.

That said a majority of redundant pickups is standard in any Makaimura, and once you get a handle on Kai's controls it becomes very natural with a good weight balance.

It's not so much the pickups themselves but the abundance of secrets and stuff you can go for that essentially won't result in any kind of reward when you're playing Kai. (as far as I recall, vanilla Goku required you to find ALL red chests in each stage though?)
That stuff should have been purged, but it's a minor grief.

Personally I think it's a superb game with fantastic stage design and a well balanced learning curve that only falls down if you consider the flying boots to be overpowered (I don't, it's still as tough as nails).

I'm sick of how much the game forces me to learn exact movements to get through every situation, and I can't shake the feeling that there's absolutely nothing I can do here except experimenting with various solutions, and dying over and over until I figure out what it wants me to do, rather than it being obvious from the moment I fail. I've been savescumming and playing each section over and over until I get through without dying at all... and I'm still only at 2-2!
First gate boss took me ages to beat without abusing the flying armor, and I'm STILL not completely certain I got it down - it seems like it's happy to put me in a completely unwinnable situation just by random chance.

I know it sounds like I just suck, but I don't consider the other games in the series that difficult, while this one seems heads and shoulders beyond those.

[Skykid]

I agree with you about stuff that should have been purged in Kai, I just guess they didn't want to actually rearrange the stages by sectioning off the secret pathways leading to now redundant coins and whatnot.

It pretty much is the hardest Makaimura though, you're on point about that.

Stick with it, it becomes easier once you have a grip on the way it works. First stop: flying armor!

[Shoryukev]

Been revisit original NG and got stuck at 6-2 now, will playing it again later. ;'(

You'll get it, just keep pushing! I got stuck at Jaquio awhile back and gave up, I need to take my own advice and pop the sucker back in my NES and keep trying too LOL

It's tough as nails but beating each stage feels very rewarding, such an amazing game.

[BIL]

You must BREAK 6-2 to stand a chance. A chance of not going insane between Boss Rush Knockbacks™. The multiple chokepoints are eminently controllable with a little observant practice, but trying to bruteforce/bullshit 'em will wear a man down to a tiny squeaking nub! 3;

Spoiler

^ DOIN IT WRONG :O

[soprano1]

Interesting find, a Megaman X3 prototype was found and published. There are quite a few differences from the final version, graphic wise: http://www.siliconera.com/2016/11/12/ea ... -download/

[Sumez]

Stick with it, it becomes easier once you have a grip on the way it works. First stop: flying armor!

Whenever I find the flying armor, I opt not to use it at all. One hit takes away the armor, so if I start relying on it anywhere, it could easily get me into trouble.

You must BREAK 6-2 to stand a chance. A chance of not going insane between Boss Rush Knockbacks™. The multiple chokepoints are eminently controllable with a little observant practice, but trying to bruteforce/bullshit 'em will wear a man down to a tiny squeaking nub! 3;

Spoiler

^ DOIN IT WRONG :O

That room, like most other sections of Ninja Gaiden is more of a puzzle than a genuine action challenge. There isn't a lot of timing or reaction requirements to it, you just gotta know what spawns where, and how to effeciently despawn stuff. It's really super easy once you got it down, but it was fun to try and figure out.

[BIL]

That is technically true, and an analytical approach would surely discourage total screaming meltdowns of the sort I've seen others have (I'm talkin' THERMONUCLEAR SCRUB FURY ).

Moving beyond base survival to Real Action™, I think the game's quality is in it not demanding set solutions of an experienced player. If you were to ask me for the objectively safest 6-2 method, I couldn't tell you it. I can barely remember what spawns where - I wing it every time having gotten the basic layouts down. As with Contra III st1/Hard, creeping through is possible but not at all the performance ceiling. It's an important distinction from more limiting "do this or die" game design.

[Mortificator]

Interesting find, a Megaman X3 prototype was found and published. There are quite a few differences from the final version, graphic wise: http://www.siliconera.com/2016/11/12/ea ... -download/

The proto Neon Tiger looks meaner, but also sloppier.

[Sumez]

Super Ghouls 'n Chohmakaimura finally down for the count. Took me a few more tries than I thought (four play sessions from starting only with a vague memory of having played the game years ago), but when I finally got it, I had 4 extra lives to spare (you start the game with 2), so as I expected - it's one of those games you're almost certain to steamroll once you "got it down".

My biggest obstacle was the two Astaroth/Nebiroth bosses right before the final boss that you have to fight using the goddess bracelet. For a long while the fight really bothered me. But a combination of watching some videos of people who knew what they were doing, and forcing myself to learn their patterns, it actually ended out as a really fun and excitinig boss fight following a whole bunch of extremely lackluster bosses (Astaroth uses aimed shots and always switches between the two attacks, but the delays between attacks can vary wildly, which threw me off a lot - Nebiroth's fire breath can feel like it has a super long range, but you really just gotta watch out for whether it hits the upper or lower platform which gives it a lot more reach)

Overall, my thoughts about the game is that it's a lot easier than anything else in the series. As stated previously, I've often heard claims that it's the hardest, but there's no way that's even close to the truth. Daimakai is usually considered the easiest, but even that's much harder than this.
I do think there are a lot of instances of bad or just annoying level design, which damages the overall experience of an otherwise amazing game.
- Stage 1, the zombies that takes forever before you can damage them, however they can damage you, and they will be happy to just block your way forward. This is exactly the opposite of the brilliant design of the skeleton murderers in Dai, and feels like a completely retarded change. It gets extra frustrating at the point where pillers are pouring skulls into your face.
- Stage 2, the auto scroller. Everyone agrees about this. The boss, two, feels too random for its own good. It's an easy fight, but its attacks are completely random, and some times the only way to dodge them is to guess what's it gonna do.
- Stage 3, the orcs/ogres/pigmen/whatever that spawn in the air and tries to fall on you. These don't serve any purpose other than trying to stop your pace. Like the zombies, anything that stops you from plowing through just ruins the fun. Especially obnoxious is the ones on the final part of the last tower right before the boss area. Theoretically there's always a chance of one spawning right by the edge where there's nothing much you can do about it. Oh, and of course they have to be carrying pots.
- Stages 4 and 5 are great, with exception of one single flower on st5 that will randomly activate on a level above you before you get close to it. The only way to approach it is by jumping over spikes, which will allow it to hit you while you jump, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. It's rare, but common enough to be scary, and annoying as hell.

Otherwise, I really enjoyed finally doing this game in without any use of continues, having owned it for ages and played it on and off too many times.

Spoiler

[copy-paster]

Spoiler

Omg during my run I had an accident like that!

Getting serious now and made it to Jaquio, effective strategy anyone?

[BIL]

Trickier fight than it looks. Basically, you need to carefully draw his flames to the bottom of the screen, then jump up and strike in the reload period. Here is a more detailed post, please pardon the brusque tone. ;3

- Stage 1, the zombies that takes forever before you can damage them, however they can damage you, and they will be happy to just block your way forward. This is exactly the opposite of the brilliant design of the skeleton murderers in Dai, and feels like a completely retarded change.

God damn, yeah. It's a stark difference, somehow never put my finger on it. Dai's reapers are masterpiece zako design, eternally gratifying to snipe on reflex and rapidly lethal if you don't. Coffins erupting from the earth are a good aesthetic, but Chou zombies otherwise totally miss that mark. (And even then, the coffin's not as functional or cool as reapers peeping out from behind scenery... a sidescroller mechanic I wish got used more often. Put Elevator Action Returns on its max difficulty and certain areas get wickedly intense with the risk of a popout baddie getting the drop on you).

[Sumez]

Getting serious now and made it to Jaquio, effective strategy anyone?

Like BIL, I'll assume you're thinking of the second form, since the first is awfully easy to cheese, and the third is really obvious.
Also, I'm gonna assume you'll only be looping through the final stage once, as would be expected, and don't have any subweapons ready.

It's a really devious fight that looks much easier than it is. The one thing you want to avoid is the flames staying on the screen. They start changing direction when they are a certain distance from you, so you need to be on the ground when they go down there, so they despawn beneath you. While nothing in the fight does a lot of damage to you, getting knocked back while in the air can easily cause a flame to not despawn, and things will quickly spiral out of control. So if anything goes wrong, forget about attacking for a moment, and get back to the status quo.

His attacks are 100% predictable, always fire in set intervals, and move depending on your position, so you want to position yourself so you can easily walk under the flames, or inbetween them.

As for attacking Jacquio, there are only a few really safe openings. His attack timings will repeat after a certain number of attacks, so I count between each time I jump up to attack him, to make sure it's safe.
While he's in his safe pattern, you want to jump up on the middle platform and attack him while he's on your right.

For reference, check this video from my first (of many) 1CC of the game, where I play extreeeemely conservatively without trying anything fancy, after initially screwing up and taking a few hits. It's a good way to start out, but has a risk of actually allowing the timer to time out if you miss too many openings. But as you get accustomed to his pattern you can try getting extra hits in here and there and take him out much faster than I do here.
https://youtu.be/R-ncdUfPbo4?t=27m55s

Elevator Action Returns

Oh yeah! Now I know what my next project needs to be. Gotta dust off that ol' F3.

[Squire Grooktook]

Woosh, haven't logged in for a while.

Re: Jaquio

Here's my no damage victory against him during my 1lc. Not much more to say that others haven't already said. Just get a feel for his projectiles homing arcs and play safe.

Re: Makaimura series

I too favor Dai. The double jump mechanic in Cho/Super is wonderfully tense and that game is also very close to my heart, but Dai is simply the fastest paced with the most omnipresent reactive element.


Also mentioned it earlier, but finished playing Momodora: Reverie. Very good game. It's basically a CV Metroidvania designed for arcade players, trading in discardable rpg elements and length for difficulty and pace. Very fun to speed through in 30-60 minutes without dying, and the level design shows that actual platforming (often fairly tense, at that) can actually work within that framework. Not the best combat/boss/enemy design out there, but serviceable enough that combined with the above, I think it trumps most of the actual CV Exploration games for replay.

One interesting idea is that the magic items and special attacks are actually acquired by no damaging bosses. Puts an onus for mastering and crushing bosses on speed runners and 1cc'ers, since many of these powers are quite potent.

The atmosphere is also surprisingly thick. Overall would recommend. Probably a better game than Bloodstained will be.

[Sumez]

Momodora is very likely coming out for consoles, I'm gonna pick it up when it does, can't wait to play it from all I heard about it.

[Sumez]

Warning: Another long post is approaching fast
(it destroyed the space colony)

As I've obviously been focusing on my "action platformer" backlog recently, I've decided to compile a list of every game in my collection that I still haven't 1CC'ed or otherwise played as much as I would like to. It's really surprisingly long. I'm trying to prioritize the games, so it'll be years before I reach the bottom of the list. I might move some of the easy games further up on the list so I can check them off earlier. And likely a lot of stuff would be trashed. I already glanced through a couple of games that I immediately moved to the trashbin below the list, for the reasons stated.
This is mostly a personal list, but any discussion, feedback or suggestions is welcome


Elevator Action Returns (everyone says this game is super easy, but it massacres me constantly - I think I might be overlooking an important game mechanic )
Super Contra (FC) (only major Contra game left for me)
Metal Storm (yes, I actually bought it :3)
Shadow of the Ninja (unfortunately only have the PAL version - NTSC versions seem much more expensive)
Rocket Knight Adventures
Castlevania X68k (being a huge CV fan it's a crime that I never truly beat this one)
Hagane
Shatterhand
Kick Master (why was this only released in US? One of the most impressive games for the NES, with possible Yagawa involvement :3)
Batman (NES) (got to the Joker many times before, but I've never been able to get close to finishing him off, such a horrible boss fight)
RAF World
Mega Turrican (market price skyrocketed the year after I got this one. I ought to have the decency to pop it into my console at least once - Turrican games always felt horrible to me though)
Black Tiger (really cheap arcade PCB! Always though this was criminally overlooked as well)
Bucky O'hare
Little Samson (not sure if these last two veer too much into cutesy platformer territory to be considered sidescrolling action games? but especially Bucky does carry its Contra influences with pride)
Indiana Jones (SNES) (I'm surprised how good this game is - way better than the similarly pretty looking, but horribly overrated, Super Star Wars games)
Legend of Hero Tonma (PCE)
Ninja Spirit (PCE) (never gave this game much thought, I thought it was an overlooked gem, but seeing the love for it in this thread, makes me want to bump up its priority - seems like one hell of an investment though)
Contra III hard mode (on hold until further notice)
Conquest of the Crystal Palace (now here's a really overlooked gem for the NES! Interesting differences between NES and FC versions make both worth pursuing in their own way, but I went with NES so I wouldn't need a guide for the shops - not sure if it really fits with this thread's theme though)
Run Saber
Rolling Thunder 2
Cone Name: Viper
Alisia Dragoon
Target Earth (somehow Valken never really clicked with me, but I'm ready to give Leynos a chance)
Power Blade
Holy Diver (I'm on the verge of giving up on this one - the later stages are just so cheap and cruel nothing short of pure memorization will get you through them, but the game is so much fun)
The Legendary Axe (another one I criminally ignored for years - it's like Rastan but WAY BETTER)
Midnight Resistance (MD)
Ninja Gaiden (the SMS game)
Master of Darkness
Kenseiden
Kabuki Quantum Fighter
Gun-Dec
Alien Soldier
Toki (arcade) (not a fantastic game, but my childhood memories need to see this happen)
Dynamite Batman (I really don't like this game, but it's so pwetty)
El Viento (dat music)
Mystic Defender


A few games I had on my list, but after spending a little time with them, I decided to give up for now:
Batman & Robin (Genesis) (super awkward controls, poorly thought out enemy spawns feels very "western", is it really as good as people say?)
Ranger X (even more awkward controls, but for completely different reasons - I have NO IDEA how to play this game. It looks and sounds amazing though. Am I missing out?)
Dragon Fighter (fun game, but a really unbalanced difficulty curve and cheap attacks prevents me from enjoying it)
Demon Sword (really fun game, but it's also absolutely horrible - probably never going to finish this)


I'm considering investing in Bloody Wolf (PCE), Chelnov (MD), and Edono Kiba (SFC) as well. Worth the money, or not?

[BIL]

Momodora sounds badass. Interested in that console release.

Lots of good stuff there Sumez, a few quick observations off the top of my head:

Elevator Action Returns (everyone says this game is super easy, but it massacres me constantly - I think I might be overlooking an important game mechanic )

It's the only arcade sidescroller I've ever felt necessary to play on max difficulty, for a little more intensity (basically enemies won't hesistate as long before shooting). However... I'm wondering if my character of choice, Edie, is the game's EZMODO pick (ala Kamaitachi in The Ninja Warriors Again). Her wide-ranging firebomb and blistering shot speed make holding off enemies all too easy, and since I don't get hit much as a result, her low HP is pretty moot. I could be totally mistaken though... haven't used Karte/Jad much at all (I tend to find a character/ship I like and stick with 'em). What about it gives you trouble, out of curiosity?

Super Contra (FC) (only major Contra game left for me)

This'll be a cinch with a little practice. Fun game (<3 UMECHAN Team), but not at all threatening.

Metal Storm (yes, I actually bought it :3)

Excellent choice. ;3 Expect a mildly tricky challenge from Loop 1, and a brutal trial from Loop 2. Fortunately the game's password system makes studiously overcoming the puzzlebox nightmare fun and practical!

Shatterhand

Natsume's technical sidescrolling masterpiece. The powerup and Option systems give it a decided learning curve, but it'll pay off handsomely. Super involving, satisfying stage designs to master.

Kick Master (why was this only released in US? One of the most impressive games for the NES, with possible Yagawa involvement :3)

So goddamn annoyed this never made it to FC, it's gonna make me break my vows and start a NES library for sure. Rad game AFAIK!

Batman (NES) (got to the Joker many times before, but I've never been able to get close to finishing him off, such a horrible boss fight)

I consider Joker part of a Famicom endboss trifecta of excellence along with Dracula and Jaquio (CV1/NG1). He seems insanely cheap at first... the trick is to exploit his inability to shoot you at point-blank, as well as the game's disabling of enemy hitboxes upon damage ; then it becomes a short, intense chase. Get close and punch the shit out of him - when he runs away he'll pass through you harmlessly. Pursue (without getting shot in the face... I like to jump) and repeat. The lightning will always follow an easy(ish) to dodge pattern while you're up close - see my replay for more detail.

It's entirely possible to kill him without taking damage, but yeah, initially he's going to shoot you to bits. Now I find Fire Bug the bigger threat tbh. No-damaging him seems incredibly tough without resorting to outright AI looping. I'm still a bit of a newbie though.

Bucky O'hare
Little Samson (not sure if these last two veer too much into cutesy platformer territory to be considered sidescrolling action games? but especially Bucky does carry its Contra influences with pride)

Haha, don't worry about cuteness. Bucky, Little Nemo and Gimmick have all been covered in this thread with much enthusiasm. I like what I've played of Samson/Lickle but it's one of those pricey games I'm not quite enticed enough by.

Conquest of the Crystal Palace (now here's a really overlooked gem for the NES! Interesting differences between NES and FC versions make both worth pursuing in their own way, but I went with NES so I wouldn't need a guide for the shops - not sure if it really fits with this thread's theme though)

I've been thinking of looking into its FC version Matendoji. Seems cool (I vaguely remember finishing it on rental, as a kid) but as always I'm slow to check out cutesier fighting man sidescrollers.

Target Earth (somehow Valken never really clicked with me, but I'm ready to give Leynos a chance)

Mechanically, TE/Leynos is very archaic and limited... many will find it painfully so. I put up with it for the game's one overwhelming strength, its battlefields. Moreso than any mecha sidescroller I've seen since, it truly makes you feel like a tiny lone unit trekking across vast, ruthlessly changeable battlegrounds. You'll soon know if you want to tolerate it similarly. One of my most idiosyncratic personal favourites, I'd never be without it but can't recommend it to anyone without qualification.

Holy Diver (I'm on the verge of giving up on this one - the later stages are just so cheap and cruel nothing short of pure memorization will get you through them, but the game is so much fun)

I can't help loving HD's reification of the nostalgists' NES boogeymen (noobs think NG and CV are cruel? lmao!). But the input glitches and sprite dropout are so fucking bush league it hurts... in the end, you'll be fighting those flaws as much as the game itself. I know I'd regret selling my copy though. 3;

Kenseiden

I love this one - the only Mark III title in my collection so far. It has its flaws, but they're easy to forgive. Basically this is what Castlevania II should've been.

Kabuki Quantum Fighter
Gun-Dec
Mystic Defender

All super solid games. Gun-Dec is an absolute must-play for Ninja Gaiden fans, it's practically to them what NG is to Castlevania. If you like Mystic Defender/Kujaku Oh II, try out its spiritual sequel Jewel Master - very similar no-nonsense "turbocharged 8-bit" feel.

Dynamite Batman (I really don't like this game, but it's so pwetty)

It's just broken, imo - more of a tech demo than a quality sidescroller.

RAF World
Alisia Dragoon
El Viento

Unlike Dynamite Batman, these ones are flawed but still distinctly worthwhile imo. RW and AD's handling isn't as responsive as it should've been, leading to a few cheap hits... Viento flat-out gives you an enormous lifebar to tank through its cheesier bits. I think it would've been far cooler as a mecha sidescroller than a magical girl one... Still quite satisfying though, the crouchdash and beefy charge shots are very fun mechanics and lend it a rollicking pace.

Alien Soldier

An utter blast, this one... possibly my single favourite MD game. Don't be intimidated by its reputation for difficulty, survival is actually quite lenient with a little practice (the performance ceiling OTOH is astronomical). I suggest using Buster/Buster/Lancer/Flame when starting out. Also, learn to work the weapon switch.

Ranger X (even more awkward controls, but for completely different reasons - I have NO IDEA how to play this game. It looks and sounds amazing though. Am I missing out?)

A definite learning curve on the controls, and stage 2 doesn't do the pacing any favours by dropping you into a rather confusing labyrinth - but yes, it pays off massively once you're over these initial hurdles. Utterly badass mecha sidescroller packed with variety and technical, rampant destruction.

I'm considering investing in Bloody Wolf (PCE), Chelnov (MD), and Edono Kiba (SFC) as well. Worth the money, or not?

Was messing about with BW just the other night - I love it. Weird sort of game, almost feels ARPG-ish with the mild exploration element... however, unlike say MSX Metal Gear the action is totally arcadey. Whole lotta killin' with plenty of trademark DECO 80s machismo.

Chelnov's MD port is spectacular. Justifiably acclaimed.

[NYN]

Do you suppose Viewtiful Joe fits the topic?
Only reason I can make out is that it's not released in the earlier bit age.

[soprano1]

Do you suppose Viewtiful Joe fits the topic?
Only reason I can make out is that it's not released in the earlier bit age.

It is a sidescrolling action game, i guess.

[BIL]

From my very fleeting memory of VJ (unfortunately I am ridiculously backlogged on anything from PS2 and newer), it's just as much of a sidescroller as stuff like Klonoa, Chain Dive and Shattered Soldier. 3D models, 2D action. So yeah I'd say it's on-topic.

Offhand, stuff like Granada (topdown) and Double Dragon (beltscroller) wouldn't qualify. Basically if it's side-viewed action along X/Y axes, it's cool here.

[NYN]

Bummer, BIL. Here I was hoping for your thoughts on it.
I've seen it been mentioned sometimes by evil_ash_xero and obiwanshinobi. I bought it on release and it instantly impressed me. Finished Ultra V-Rated difficulty just now and I'm amazed how well it plays and how gorgeous it looks today. Not sure it gets enough appreciation.

[Sumez]

It's the only arcade sidescroller I've ever felt necessary to play on max difficulty, for a little more intensity (basically enemies won't hesistate as long before shooting). However... I'm wondering if my character of choice, Edie, is the game's EZMODO pick (ala Kamaitachi in The Ninja Warriors Again). Her wide-ranging firebomb and blistering shot speed make holding off enemies all too easy, and since I don't get hit much as a result, her low HP is pretty moot. I could be totally mistaken though... haven't used Karte/Jad much at all (I tend to find a character/ship I like and stick with 'em). What about it gives you trouble, out of curiosity?

I think I probably only played the game with the "default guy". That's what I always do when I start a new game. I did hear Edie was kinda OP though.
Well, I just watched a random 1CC video of the game on YouTube, and it seems like every single one of the segments I was having trouble with can be solved by just crouching in a corner and keep firing blindly. Boy do I feel stupid.

I consider Joker part of a Famicom endboss trifecta of excellence along with Dracula and Jaquio (CV1/NG1). He seems insanely cheap at first... the trick is to exploit his inability to shoot you at point-blank, as well as the game's disabling of enemy hitboxes upon damage ; then it becomes a short, intense chase. Get close and punch the shit out of him - when he runs away he'll pass through you harmlessly. Pursue (without getting shot in the face... I like to jump) and repeat. The lightning will always follow an easy(ish) to dodge pattern while you're up close - see my replay for more detail.

I've read this strategy, and I've tried it so many times. The fight to even make it to the Joker is tough as nails, but I've taken the trek over and over again, just to try my luck once more. His damage output is ridiculous, if you don't know what to do you will literally lose in less than two seconds, and even when I've seen what I need to do, it's impossible for me to pull off.
I'm surprised you liken this to Jaquio and Dracula. Those are excellent designs, while the Joker feels like it's designed to be impossible to beat, and the only way to do it, is by abusing certain game mechanics and illogical hitboxes. I really have no idea how to tackle it.

Kenseiden

I love this one - the only Mark III title in my collection so far. It has its flaws, but they're easy to forgive. Basically this is what Castlevania II should've been.

Moving it up in priority!

Dynamite Batman (I really don't like this game, but it's so pwetty)

It's just broken, imo - more of a tech demo than a quality sidescroller.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. Stupid memorization jumps, attacks that can't possible be dodged, enemies that'll scroll into the screen when it's already too late to react to them, etc. Oh, and boss fights that make absolutely no sense. I just want to see all of it, but I'm not sure I can put up with it.

Alien Soldier

I suggest using Buster/Buster/Lancer/Flame when starting out. Also, learn to work the weapon switch.

*taking notes*

[BIL]

Bummer, BIL. Here I was hoping for your thoughts on it.
I've seen it been mentioned sometimes by evil_ash_xero and obiwanshinobi. I bought it on release and it instantly impressed me. Finished Ultra V-Rated difficulty just now and I'm amazed how well it plays and how gorgeous it looks today. Not sure it gets enough appreciation.

I know Sir Ilpalazzo's a big fan - definitely reaffirmed my interest in it. As with so many relatively new games, I've owned a copy for ages... just haven't settled down with the requisite hardware.

Well, I just watched a random 1CC video of the game on YouTube, and it seems like every single one of the segments I was having trouble with can be solved by just crouching in a corner and keep firing blindly. Boy do I feel stupid.

Haha, yeah. The big crowd onslaughts are quite susceptible to a little crouch camping. That's why I like to bump the difficulty up, it makes the "regular" segments a lot more intense - an enemy getting the drop on you while you're otherwise occupied won't hesitate to open fire.

I'm surprised you liken this to Jaquio and Dracula. Those are excellent designs, while the Joker feels like it's designed to be impossible to beat, and the only way to do it, is by abusing certain game mechanics and illogical hitboxes. I really have no idea how to tackle it.

Well, more in terms of lasting challenge and volatility. All three are remarkably intense showdowns even when expertly handled.

By abuse, do you mean the enemy hitbox cancel? That feels pretty deliberate - it's critical to the walljumping, for example, allowing you to leap onto platforms and punch out ledge guarders in one sweep. It's impossible to know just how deliberate the fight's design is, but what's certain is that attacking Joker from a distance is utter suicide - you're easy prey for both of his attacks, and restricted to doing minimal damage. With Batman doing enormously more damage via fists, it feels pretty logical to move in close and pummel him - especially with the huge gap between Joker and the end of his comedy elephant gun.

The game's boss design is tbh very much on the fast and loose side, a bad habit of Sunsoft/Tokai even in their best stuff (and run absolutely amok in Dynamite Batman). But unlike Electrocutioner and Firebug, who are almost certain to hit you a few times apiece, Joker feels pretty well thought-out. Albeit insanely unforgiving to newbies, but eh... I can forgive that, given the longterm intensity.

I suggest using Buster/Buster/Lancer/Flame when starting out. Also, learn to work the weapon switch.

*taking notes*

Aww sheeit, sorry. >_< A little too offhand, that post. My recommendation is (as said in the post linked below) Lancer/Lancer/Flame/Buster. Lately I've been experimenting with the lategame weapon array, typically switching to LLLF just before Melon Bread (lots of Lancer needed for Seven Force). But in the early game, and especially while you're new, LLFB is a good all-purpose set.

More detail on Alien Soldier weapon config + switching here. Note that the ultimate speedrunner setup expects you to zip past lots of stuff, to compensate for its lack of ammo. If you're a Joe Average Soldier like me who wants to enjoy the carnage, you'll want a bigger stockpile. ;3 The weapon switching is a fine art - get accustomed to spotting windows to switch mid-battle, and take careful note of its effect on the weapon recharge.

Regarding Ninja Spirit and Hero Tonma (PCE), those two are superb ports of great games - though Ninja Spirit, as beloved as it is here, has one of the all-time worst game design pratfalls in its stage 7-2 ninja pit. (see that post for an easy solution to its bullshit). It's a testament to the game's sheer excellence that it remains absolutely worthwhile in spite of that. I'm a fan of Demon Sword (or rather its substantially different FC version Fudoh Myouou Den) too, in spite of its flaws - NS is the same lunar ninja terror concept in a vastly more arcade-tight format. Tonma looks like a cutesy platformer, but is in fact a total foot-to-the-floor run and gun - think Wardner on speed if you've played that. Ripping good time.

Can't go wrong with Hagane for hyper-maneuverable ninja action. Easily rivals the MD Super Shinobis imo. JP price seems to have shot up in the last few years, though of course that goes for a lot of SFC stuff. I have mucho manloves for Codename Viper/Ningen Heiki Dead Fox, it's as excellent a Rolling Thunder ripoff as it is blatant. Nails-hard methodical sidescroller. Only thing stopping me from outright proclaiming its greatness is, I've not quite finished it. Loved where it was going though, stage 5 is a nightmarishly good time.

[Sumez]

I actually played Tonma quite a bit, and we even had it in our "local arcade" here as game of the month at one point. I never went all the way through though, it's just one of those games I just tend to pop in whenever I'm showing anyone how awesome the PC Engine is, and play it for a bit. People usually get surprised by how amazingly well it plays. I'd like to get really into it, doesn't sem like too big a mouthful either.
Same with Hagane actually. I usually get a few stages in and then get stuck because I never took the time out to really get into it. Have had it for many years, but you're right, it seems to be getting in the steep end of the market!

Speaking of games that look like cutesy platformers but are actually hardcore, fastpaced action games - not exactly sidescrolling, but one of my favourite arcade games ever, probably the favourite, is Rainbow Islands. Man that game is an incredible accomplishment. 40 full levels of constant new ideas, tough enemies and balls-to-the-wall frantic action. Like most other Taito platformers, it's completely deterministic, but forget about playing it like a puzzle game - there's so much going on constantly that once you get past island 3 it's impossible to completely predict everything that's going to happen. Such an incredible masterpiece, a 1cc took me a long time to get.

[copy-paster]

Thanks for the guide guys! The technique of clear Jaquio is same as Squire's methods, and still requires right timing otherwise you get hit by his body.

Now my practice is almost complete, just want to get better at whole act 5 and 6, of course I already beat the game with credit feeding lolz.

I don't think the modern NG games have any relation at all to the classic ones. Think of it as a reboot or whatevs.

https://www.videogamer.com/previews/nin ... -interview

See the last two Q&A.

[BIL]

Speaking of games that look like cutesy platformers but are actually hardcore, fastpaced action games - not exactly sidescrolling, but one of my favourite arcade games ever, probably the favourite, is Rainbow Islands. Man that game is an incredible accomplishment. 40 full levels of constant new ideas, tough enemies and balls-to-the-wall frantic action. Like most other Taito platformers, it's completely deterministic, but forget about playing it like a puzzle game - there's so much going on constantly that once you get past island 3 it's impossible to completely predict everything that's going to happen. Such an incredible masterpiece, a 1cc took me a long time to get.

Out of curiosity, do you know if the PCE-CD port is any good? I've been really digging the machine's most spectacular efforts like Cotton, Forgotten Worlds and Gradius II... but of course there are some downers in there too, like the truly unfortunate Strider (with the sound muted, I could believe it was a first-gen HuCard ; shame it couldn't make the SuperGrafx as originally planned, if NEC's superb Daimakaimura port is any indication). I have to restrain myself from just hoovering up PCE arcade ports too quickly, haha. Konami and Irem's are excellent, but I was all fired up for the Asmik-published Shinobi only to discover it deleted the close combat. What the fuck. Needless to say, I passed a swift and merciless judgement...

Spoiler

Now my practice is almost complete, just want to get better at whole act 5 and 6, of course I already beat the game with credit feeding lolz.

Continuing is A-OK for admittance to the task force! In fact it might even be helpful. Our mission is to show the scrubs that NG is in fact not impossible even with its cruel boss rush knockback. ;3

[Ed Oscuro]

I got around to beating Strider 2014 (almost 13 hours, 100% completion, just missing 3 achievements - no falling off balrog (lol), hard mode, 4 hour speedrun). Decent game but some things weren't kosher:
- Sometimes the shininess of the game makes it hard to read enemy shield types. Sometimes normal shielding enemies look a bit too much like plasma shielded variants. Some mirrored surfaces have odd effects, too.
- Some minor sequence breaking is possible as one or two locked doors can be activated from outside (one can be opened by throwing red kunai through the door).
- Strider pulls up on ledges too quickly, and in many places when he should not, which led to tons of deaths and wasted time around electrified / laser obstacles. Major pet peeve of mine.
- I found it good to avoid charging the cypher whenever possible, because mistiming a shield-breaking strike is dangerous and the benefits of taking out shield enemies is minimal anyways. Finally:
- Weapon and subweapon design is slapdash and borderline nonsensical. There's an attempt to force plasma variants into relevance by making some shielding enemies vulnerable to specific plasma types, and most end up being vulnerable to simple button mashing attacks or dashes if you just select the correct plasma type. This makes them easy to mow through once you find the right option. At this point, normal shield enemies generally aren't worth killing. Beyond this, there is very little you need plasma variants for. The only thing that comes to mind is activating a few hidden platforms and lazy turret killing with the purple kunai. For regular fighting, well-aimed red kunai bursts are murder even against the final boss when only a couple of the daggers hit him in a volley; the ammo usage is low enough that only the purple type is likely to be close to competitive in that specific situation. For normal enemies the red kunai seems to always be best thanks to bouncing and big targets.

Steam stats demonstrate one way the weapon and option variants failed to be well-designed. 10.1% of players actually beat the game - that's every boss, right up through the end. 8.7% killed 20 enemies using the panther option, and 8.4% maxed out the hit meter more than 25 times. These last tasks are incredibly simple, but the game expends no effort in making it worthwhile to use them in normal combat. Maxing out the hit meter seems mostly to add a moment of molasses motion, followed by a few seconds of unnoticeable increased damage. The panther simply isn't promoted as a combat option. It might be useful clearing weak enemies out from behind shielding enemies in open areas, but generally it's far too weak and limited to be worth the trouble when you'd do much the same by running along with the cypher out. In the early game, when I didn't have a lot of kunai power, I used the hawk option a few times during the Winds fights, but this too can't be aimed and is totally outclassed by the kunai later on.

But it just boggles the mind that the weapon design misses the mark so totally that achievement-hungry players miss that you can kill things with the panther option. Once I realized there was an achievement, it took me less than a minute to get it.

One thing I did have fun with was maxing out the uncovered map area, but this is borderline OCD and not really good game design. Strider gets the most distance going straight up by dashing off the ground, jumping twice, and then dashing again. Dash movement also lets you avoid a lot of clumsy movement mishaps around obstacles. Here, though, is another gameplay issue - most of the time electrified barriers denote that the area beyond is closed off, but some secret areas are hidden this way. There are also some platforms and floating icons that require jumps of faith (in the open outdoors areas) to find, and they're still easy to miss. No doubt I missed that Balrog achievement by trying to max out the map there.

[Sumez]

PC Engine Rainbow Islands definitely LOOKS great, almost perfect in fact. I've been avoiding it since it's a cd-rom release, and I loved the game enough to shell out big buck$$$ for the PCB. I actually have a friend who has the PCE version, so I'm gonna try his version and compare them at some point.

I'm afraid this is one of those games where it's extremely easy to become an "arcade purist", because there are so many tiny details, from hitboxes and enemy behavior to the pixel perfect details in the stage design, enemy placements and what you can or can't do that can make the difference between success or failure in this game. Even if the game plays a tiny bit differently I would probably have difficulty with it. What matters most though, if it retains the perfect responsiveness and depth of the controls that you see in the arcade version, and judging by videos on the internet, it definitely looks like it's the port that comes the closest to this, with even the MegaDrive being a good deal behind.

[copy-paster]

Continuing is A-OK for admittance to the task force! In fact it might even be helpful. Our mission is to show the scrubs that NG is in fact not impossible even with its cruel boss rush knockback. ;3

Hahah thanks for that! I thought 1cc is the requirements to join task force, but still I want to 1cc the game badly. ;'3

[BrianC]

If you like Mystic Defender/Kujaku Oh II, try out its spiritual sequel Jewel Master - very similar no-nonsense "turbocharged 8-bit" feel.

Funny thing is that I actually bought both at the same time. Mystic Defender has the bonus of two versions of the game on the same cart. Not sure if mine in the censored one, though. I would assume the JP version on the cart would remain uncensored, but that wasn't the case with Streets of Rage 2 (it's still possible to play it in Japanese if the region lock is bypassed) or Revenge of Shinobi. Thanks to Mega Everdrive, I can now play the crazy transforming Batman version of Super Shinobi on real hardware, as well as an uncensored hack of SoR2 (though the latter is much less of a concern than the former).

I tried the GB version of Ninja Spirit. It's definitely not as tight as the PCE version. Slashing down multiple enemies is the norm in the PCE version, but I have to be super careful to just hit one enemy with the sword without dying in the GB one.

I also tried the PCE Altered Best (hucard version) on the Turbo Everdrive. It uses a cool fake scaling effect when enemies are killed, but it's more clunky than the arcade and Genesis versions with some cheap hits at times. It's also missing "wise from your gwave" and seems to have a slight bit of lag when jumping (real hardware on a CRT TV, not emulation). A bit disappointing, since it seems like the developers tried and included some things missing from the Genesis version.

[BIL]

I tried the GB version of Ninja Spirit. It's definitely not as tight as the PCE version. Slashing down multiple enemies is the norm in the PCE version, but I have to be super careful to just hit one enemy with the sword without dying in the GB one.

Mechanically, the PCE port is remarkably accurate - to a fault, even. Stage layouts are extremely close too, and despite the overseas title, checkpoints+item drops are the crueller JP setting. Enemy spawns don't reach the AC's hellacious st6+7 peaks, but generally speaking it's a superb rendition of the lunar nightmare. I'd be totally enticed by a GB interpretation of that standard... unfortunately Bits seem to have gotten a lot nearer their own janky SFC Gunforce. 3;

I also tried the PCE Altered Best (hucard version) on the Turbo Everdrive. It uses a cool fake scaling effect when enemies are killed, but it's more clunky than the arcade and Genesis versions with some cheap hits at times. It's also missing "wise from your gwave" and seems to have a slight bit of lag when jumping (real hardware on a CRT TV, not emulation). A bit disappointing, since it seems like the developers tried and included some things missing from the Genesis version.

I like the more arcade-accurate look of the HuCard sprites, but it's pretty clear Sega ports on NEC hardware need some careful vetting. The quality spectrum is broad, to put it mildly. That Golden Axe CD port.