Looking forward to "NX"? (aka The Switch Thread)

[neorichieb1971]

Better to have a system with 10 games you want to play than 500 you don't.

[Xyga]

Better to have a system with 10 games you want to play than 500 you don't.

+1
But there's also greater probabilities that many more individuals will manage to sort out ten games they'll love out of a 500 titles library.

EDIT: tbh some PC-games-only players will argue consoles can have a full 500 shit games library, duh.

[Squire Grooktook]

There's at least 10 systems with a better selection of games than the Wii U though.

Not arguing that, but the Wii U and 3ds selection are mostly exclusives. Which means you will never play these essential games unless you bite the bullet and pick up the console.

Bayonetta 2 alone makes the console a must own, IMO.

[HydrogLox]

Enough rumors about touch support by now for me to think it's basically confirmed.

I guess you are referring to this: Eurogamer: Nintendo Switch has a 6.2" 720p multi-touch screen. What the trailer didn't tell you.

It is certainly possible that Nintendo is submitting to general expectations of a portable device having to have a touchscreen - however in my opinion it creates a mismatch between the single-player standalone/local two-player/external display operating modes that undermines any potential strengths that the Switch's conceptual product design may have.

• Is it generally useful to have two players groping a single 6.2" screen? If not then games with two player support can't use the touch screen in any meaningful way and have to rely on the detachable controllers even in single player mode unless they want to risk introducing a different control strategy for single player (typically a bad idea). The more likely outcome is that non-Nintendo developers simply ignore the Switch's local two player capability.
• How are they going to translate touch screen controls to the external display while the core unit is stuck in the dock? I'd expect that the dock would have a Wii(U) style sensor bar and the detachable controllers act like Wiimotes. Typically this results in awkwardly translated controls on the external display. At this point it's just less painful to not use the external display.

So if using the external display is painful and local two player support is spotty you might as well just be gaming on an iOS/Android tablet - there is no point to getting a Switch. Yes, I am saying that there is the possibility that an included touchscreen could actually increase the likelihood of the Switch's failure. Constraining the Switch to physical controls would enforce a consistent control scheme over all of it's operating modes - including a touchscreen on the other hand focuses all the attention on the single-player, standalone mode (at which point it might as well just be a tablet or PS Vita).

I hope it is a success so I can justify buying one, but if all that's worth buying is the next Mario Kart game and the odd Zelda release, then I'll pass.

Nintendo needs to court the developers/publishers that actually have successful titles on the PS Vita (well at least by the Vita's standards). And they need to wave a bunch of cash in front of M2 to start on the Switch's equivalent of the "3D Classics" series of classic quintessential two player games.

Does anyone know if it's compatible with Wii / Wii-U software?

Presumably not, since it uses cards instead of discs.

It also isn't PowerPC based but on a custom Nvidia Tegra Processor.
Ars Technica: What we know (and what we can guess) about Nintendo Switch’s insides:

That said, the hardware should easily be powerful enough for Virtual Console software all the way up through the N64 era, and there's an outside chance that it will be powerful enough to run GameCube and/or original Wii software at those consoles' native 480p resolution. Nothing is official until Nintendo announces it, but if you want to play your Wii U (or 3DS) software, smart money says to keep your old systems around.

That wouldn't stop Nintendo from porting/re-writing titles like Splatoon for the Switch - they could even give owners of the digital Wii U versions upgrade discounts like they did for their first party Wii VC titles on the Wii U. But owners of physical versions will be out of luck.

[neorichieb1971]

Better to have a system with 10 games you want to play than 500 you don't.

+1
But there's also greater probabilities that many more individuals will manage to sort out ten games they'll love out of a 500 titles library.

EDIT: tbh some PC-games-only players will argue consoles can have a full 500 shit games library, duh.

I have 20+ titles out of the 32bit libraries that I would have bought but never even knew about at the time when they were released. If a system came out with just 50 titles and they were all quality titles, you should be set. Having 800 titles, that just means that 700 of them are average at best. With a few more being updates of previously released games with next to no extra gameplay at all.

The fact is, most gamers today fit in the mold of PC/PS4/Xbone. Those who want Nintendo to succeed most likely have a bias towards old school gameplay, or at least a move away from the traditional shooter/FPS/3rd person perspective shooter that has saturated the market today. I am that such person. I never gravitated towards shooting gameplay unless it was part of something bigger. But for 20/30+ hour games being solely shooting experiences. Thats repetitiousness, not gameplay. You might as well just code a game that draws random scenery and generates random enemies and see how long you can survive.

[qmish]

Would be happy if Nintendo coop with Treasure again to make something good enough again (run n gun or shmup)

[neorichieb1971]

The preorder price is £399.

Thats a bold move from NCL if that ends up being MSRP.

Source - http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/new-product/ ... k-3608381/

https://www.gamestop.co.uk/SearchResult ... ndo+switch

I said to my friend last night that if Nintendo release the Switch at a higher price and get the spec up they have more chance of getting more of the elite gamers. But £300 was the price point I was thinking.

[GaijinPunch]

I think they need it down to $350 USD at least... but w/ the weak ass pound, and the tradition of everything costing more in the UK, $300-350 USD might not be out of reach.

[Tarma]

Better to have a system with 10 games you want to play than 500 you don't.

Which I suppose is fine if you're an ardent Nintendo supporter who probably doesn't care all that much for third party support. I do support the mantra of quality over quantity, but given that the average console lifespan is 5 - 6 years, only 10 games of any quality over such a period is a pretty poor end game (no pun intended) imo.

I'd really love to see Nintendo return to its hey day of the Super Famicom / SNES when it enjoyed plenty of decent third party support, but I can't see that happening again.

The preorder price is £399.

Yeah, I'll pass for now.

[ZellSF]

There's at least 10 systems with a better selection of games than the Wii U though.

Not arguing that, but the Wii U and 3ds selection are mostly exclusives. Which means you will never play these essential games unless you bite the bullet and pick up the console.

But all the 10+ systems I'm thinking of have more exclusives than the Wii U, in some cases combined with lots of cross platform titles.

Sure you need a Wii U to play Wii U titles. You also need a CD-i to play CD-i titles. In both cases if a gamer doesn't have either of those, I don't think it's lack of discerning taste or self respect. Just you know, lack of the money required to buy every game console ever and/or lack of time to play all of them.

Enough rumors about touch support by now for me to think it's basically confirmed.

I guess you are referring to this: Eurogamer: Nintendo Switch has a 6.2" 720p multi-touch screen. What the trailer didn't tell you.

It is certainly possible that Nintendo is submitting to general expectations of a portable device having to have a touchscreen - however in my opinion it creates a mismatch between the single-player standalone/local two-player/external display operating modes that undermines any potential strengths that the Switch's conceptual product design may have.

• Is it generally useful to have two players groping a single 6.2" screen? If not then games with two player support can't use the touch screen in any meaningful way and have to rely on the detachable controllers even in single player mode unless they want to risk introducing a different control strategy for single player (typically a bad idea). The more likely outcome is that non-Nintendo developers simply ignore the Switch's local two player capability.
• How are they going to translate touch screen controls to the external display while the core unit is stuck in the dock? I'd expect that the dock would have a Wii(U) style sensor bar and the detachable controllers act like Wiimotes. Typically this results in awkwardly translated controls on the external display. At this point it's just less painful to not use the external display.

So if using the external display is painful and local two player support is spotty you might as well just be gaming on an iOS/Android tablet - there is no point to getting a Switch. Yes, I am saying that there is the possibility that an included touchscreen could actually increase the likelihood of the Switch's failure. Constraining the Switch to physical controls would enforce a consistent control scheme over all of it's operating modes - including a touchscreen on the other hand focuses all the attention on the single-player, standalone mode (at which point it might as well just be a tablet or PS Vita).

Or you know, just don't allow developers to make it the primary controller scheme for games.

[Skykid]

I can't believe that, of all the things being brought into question, people are speculating on a failure of the control system.

Because you know, where controls are concerned Nintendo's track record is a total mess.

Also I don't think that £399 price is accurate. There's no reason for them to confirm a price at this stage and with such scarce details. I expect it will retail about £150 below that at a minimum.

[Xyga]

No way it'll be that expensive indeed, it's just a price they've put to catch the pre-order-at-any-cost fools and generate some clicks.

[HydrogLox]

Or you know, just don't allow developers to make it the primary controller scheme for games.

Extend that line of thinking and you'll arrive at the conclusion that not providing a touchscreen is the most effective way of enforcing that - and it lowers the production cost of the device to boot.

Because you know, where controls are concerned Nintendo's track record is a total mess.

Which is why Nintendo may bow to general expectations to include a touchscreen on a tablet sized display. At that point the Switch is set up to be generally perceived as Franken-tablet all the way down to:

I'm saying this switch looks like a worst-of-both-worlds approach.

Would the Xbox One/PS4 (Pro) benefit from touchscreen support? I think the Wii U has already demonstrated that the benefits of the touchscreen on a home console are quite limited. With the current prevalent technology it makes more sense to (optionally) enlist the screen of the already present iOS/Android device as an auxiliary display when there is an actual use for it. Given the size of the display people will have a WTF moment if it turns out that it doesn't have a touchscreen - but that is the time to make it clear:

• The Switch isn't a dedicated home console - it's a micro console with local two player support. So it can't be expected to perform like a dedicated home console.
• It's a micro console so that it can become a portable micro console for gaming on the go - but it's not a handheld because that market it already served by smart devices (which lack local two player support).

The technology for the Switch to beat is the PS Vita/PS TV combo and to some extent it has to be a better experience than PS4 over PS Vita - it is not going to beat a PS4 on an external display. Is there a market for such a product? Going by the PS Vita it certainly won't sell itself.

The preorder price is £399.

Thats a bold move from NCL if that ends up being MSRP.

$300-350 USD might not be out of reach.

Code: Select all

Current Landscape, Nov 2016:

New Nintendo 3DS XL US$ 199.99 MSRP
Wii U               US$ 299.99 MSRP
Xbox One S 500GB    US$ 299.99 MSRP
Sony PS4 Slim 500GB US$ 299.99 MSRP
Sony PS4 Pro 1TB    US$ 399.99 MSRP 

PS Vita @ NA launch 2012-Feb-15       US$ 249.99 MSRP
  5.2% cumulative inflation 2012-2016 US$ 268.88 

http://store.nintendo.co.uk/ New Nintendo 3DS XL £179.99

399.97/179.99 * 199.99 = US$ 444.42

PS4 Pro £339.97 / US$ 399.99

399.97/339.97 * 399.99 = US$ 470.58

~US$ 450 seems prohibitive. I expect at least US$299.99 but wouldn't be surprised by US$349.99 - past that Nintendo is really pushing it because of the "that is way past an Xbox One/PS4 " effect. Xbox One/PS4 don't supply a dedicated display (and docking station) and the smaller form factor tends to increase production cost and limit overall performance - it seems reasonable that the Switch would be more expensive and less performant than an Xbox One/PS4 but that doesn't make the mass market anymore accepting of those facts.

[ZellSF]

Or you know, just don't allow developers to make it the primary controller scheme for games.

Extend that line of thinking and you'll arrive at the conclusion that not providing a touchscreen is the most effective way of enforcing that - and it lowers the production cost of the device to boot.

And makes the device useless as a tablet, making it less appealing to the mass market.

I don't think lowering the production cost is worth it if you're going to sell less devices over it, and I don't think it's necessary to remove a hardware features when you can control when it's undesirable to have active in software.

[neorichieb1971]

The £399 isn't that far fetched because its not really telling you what you are getting for that.

The console will likely be $250USD or thereabouts as a standalone system.

A 3D mario game is likely to be available in a bundle bringing it up to $299.

A pro pad is likely on everyones shopping list. So thats nearer to $350 for system, pro pad and a bundled game (lets assume everyone buys a game with the system since it can't do much else on its own).

Convert that into NCL's own exchange rate (history has shown they treat PAL lands like cash cows) and you will end up in the region of £350+ for the UK. And thats generous considering the current exchange rate. But obviously £300 would be more in line with trends and they would be silly to break that trend. Especially when they want 3rd parties on board.


As for the console itself. The plastic leg that sticks out to support the portable screen is going to become the most obvious weakness for the system and will likely see ebay switches with broken legs within days or weeks of launch.

After watching more videos on the switch, I feel its going to succeed. NCL is dropping 3DS, so all development across portables and home console development will be aimed at Switch. I find that curious to say the least. Does anyone agree that the Switch will have so many releases it will be one of those consoles you just can't keep up with? I believe that.

Apparently it has 4GB of RAM. Thats a concern to me. But the cards might read and write so quickly you barely notice. All game data is apparently going on the cards, so no HDD necessary at all.

There is also rumour that the Switch is scalable. Meaning that by replacing the dock you can unlock a more powerful system by switching only one key component.

And since its portable region lock out might be a thing of the past. So everyone can enjoy games from whatever country they like.


For me its mostly WIN WIN WIN! Lets remember Nintendo don't release crappy consoles, they just release unpopular consoles. I think this time they have a marketing strategy that will deliver dividends not only in sales, but possibly even fight for a 40% share of the market.

[BryanM]

A pro pad is likely on everyones shopping list. So thats nearer to $350 for system, pro pad and a bundled game

Holy shit, I thought for sure there was no way these things cost 50 bucks but they seriously do.

Can.... can I just use a $17 PSX3 controller instead?

[spmbx]

You make it sound like that is a normal price for an original dualshock 3, which it isn't. Dualshock 3 would set you back around $50 too.

[BryanM]

guh, it is $40 for sony's brand

why is it so expensive and where did we go so wrong. is it the blueteeth?

[GaijinPunch]

A 3D mario game is likely to be available in a bundle bringing it up to $299.

Pretty sure the only landmark launch title is gonna be the new Zelda, which will be 3 months old at that point.

Can.... can I just use a $17 PSX3 controller instead?

PS3

[BryanM]

I'd hope they'd at least have one first party exclusive by that point.

Almost their entire lineup shown so far are just deluxe upgraded versions of existing games.

Can.... can I just use a $17 PSX3 controller instead?

PS3

Huh????

[Shelcoof]

With the small size and clam shell design of the 3DS the screens were protected pretty well. Looking at the size of the Switch we all know how prone that screen is to easily breaking.

Considering how damn expensive the system will be and how easy kids break their toys... will there be a way to replace the screen? Will the unit be rendered useless if the screen breaks?

I know with the Wii U without the gamepad some games aren't even playable.

[GaijinPunch]

Huh????

There was only one PSX.

And I'm pretty sure we're still pretending Phantasy Star III didn't happen.

[neorichieb1971]

Rumour mill -



Zelda bundle comes with pro pad.

[FinalBaton]

There was only one PSX.

yep.

[dave4shmups]

Personally, I loved the trailer on YouTube for the Switch. IMO, most of the problems with the Wii U were related to Nintendo not marketing it enough. Honestly, how many commercials or ads for the Wii U has anyone seen? I get on YouTube, and other internet, sites, every day, and I live in a house where the main TV is on 99% of the time, and I could count the number of Wii U ads I've seen on one hand. I'm in my late 30s, and I remember when Nintendo ran ads all the time for the NES, even when nothing else could compete with. I saw more ads for the Atari Jaguar, back in the 90's then I did the Wii U! And there's been no price cut for it. Nintendo has no big releases for it, until The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, which isn't coming out until next Spring, and they still expect people to shell out $299.99 for a Wii U.

I hope that the Switch is successful, but it won't be if Nintendo continues these policies.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BryanM]

Hoo, all that nostalgia

[FinalBaton]

Honestly, how many commercials or ads for the Wii U has anyone seen?

I don't think I've ever seen any! Maybe one but I couldn't remember it to save my life

[HydrogLox]

The flip side is that I don't recall any TV commercials for the 3DS - now PS Vita commercials I can remember. So one could also come to the conclusion that TV commercials aren't actually that effective anymore when it comes to (handheld) gaming consoles. TV commercials for PS4/Xbox One often present them as entertainment media hubs in order to appeal to a larger customer base. Even the PS3 had it's "It only does everything" media campaign.

These days it would probably be more important that Nintendo lightens up on their YouTube policies.

[soprano1]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016- ... on-version
Hah, that explains why people who played the leaked version weeks ago said the game runs like shit on the 3DS and chugs a bit on the New 3DS, it's not where they wanted the game on...

[BryanM]

Was looking through old console specs and was reminded of this little horror:

2 GB DDR3

RAM is the active memory where stuff is actively stored, manipulated, and tracked in a computation device. It is not inaccurate to say its the hard limit of "how big" the active portion of a game can be.

This isn't a trivial matter when the competitors have more than twice as much RAM as you do. It's not a trivial matter to cut down memory requirements more than in half; compressing textures to shit can only get you so much. Realistically it's almost like having to make a separate game entirely.

Ghostbusters: The Video Game was the perfect example of this - The Wii got a version of the game with dramatically stripped down art assets. Apparently this was only done since they could use that version of the game for a PSX2 port.

The rumors say the Switch will have 4 GB of RAM.