Sony PVM Monitors vs Consumer Sony Trinitrons (# of lines?)

[vol.2]

I am investigating these Monitors, and I am hoping to get some deeper opinions on a couple of different models and pros-cons. Also, I have a general question that I couldn't figure out just by googling, although it may just be that I wasn't able to figure out how to word the quarry correctly.

Here goes... I understand that different PVM models have varying vertical line resolutions. There are 560, 600, 650, 800, 900, etc.

Question #1: If PVMs have 560 and up, how many lines do regular Sony Trinitrons have?

[I have a few older sony tvs. One is a 27" from about 2005; it's okay picture, but it have a noisy flyback transformer . I also have a kv-32hs510 which is capable of HD, but I think it is only through digital processing, but I know it does 480p from my PS2 and that looks amazing. Is this TV any good for 240p ]

Question #2: Is there a reason to buy one of the newer PVMs vs one of the older ones? (besides just the age of the components)

[I am considering both one the the older PVMs like the PVM-2030/2530 and the newer ones like the PVM-20M2U/20M4U. I like the way the older ones look better, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot if they don't have a decent picture.]

[Guspaz]

To avoid confusion, the TV-line (TVL) count is measuring horizontal resolution (or rather ability to resolve horizontal detail), not vertical resolution. While it's measured by counting how many vertical lines of alternating light and dark can be resolved over a horizontal distance equal to the height of the tube, calling it the "vertical line resolution" is liable to cause confusion.

You're not going to find many TVL figures for consumer CRTs, as it was not a measurement used for consumer televisions. In practice, most SD consumer TVs will probably be in the 250-500 range, with some going higher.

[vol.2]

Okay. Thanks for the reply. Sorry about that. Horizontal Lines.

Is there any opinions on the Older Vs. Newer PVM series?

I am especially interested in the PVM 2530 because it is a little bigger, and I think it would be easier on my eyes. However, I have run across advice in videos and on forums which suggests that the 560 lines may be too little for anything like the N64 or Playstion 1 (3D consoles) because the scanlines might be too thick and create a dark cast on those images?

Also, does anyone have an opinion on the kv-32hs510 and whether or not it's possible to get a decent 240p signal out of it? I think it upscales 240p to 480i or 480p maybe? If this is true, is there anyway to change the behavior?

[Guspaz]

I thought it was the opposite: the higher the TVL count, the sharper the scanlines are likely to be, which makes the black space between scanlines more defined, making the image seem darker. There are going to be the same number of scanlines regardless of the TVL count, 240 of them in the case of most games on the N64/PSX.

I can say that the PS1 looks good on a 14" PVM with 600TVL, but 25" is way beyond my experience with PVMs.

[vol.2]

I see what you are saying. Perhaps there is a difference between the "sharpness" of the scanlines and the "thickness" of the scanlines. I watched this video: https://youtu.be/bmVE-S8L774 in which the author states that the PVM 2530 has thicker scanlines than his 14" PVM, which resulted in a poor quality image for the N64. His posited explanation was that the "thicker" scanlines darkened the image, exacerbating the inherent bluriness problem that N64 has with it's antialiasing function.

[austin532]

Most TV's cut off around 228 and can't display a full 240 lines. Still the Trinitrons are not a bad way to go. Using the Grid pattern they only cut off a little on the bottom and a few on the top.

[vol.2]

Okay. Gotcha. Thank you for giving me a ballpark idea of consumer CRT lines.

Can anyone comment on the PVM 2530?

Is this monitor a good all-around monitor for NES, N64, PlayStation 1?

How would it handle GameCube, PS2, Dreamcast?

[mikejmoffitt]

Number of TVL is a horizontal count, and has nothing to do with how think a line is vertically (and how correspondingly narrow the gap between lines are). That's beam focus, which has a lot to do with the tube, the flyback, and monitor condition.

[vol.2]

Number of TVL is a horizontal count, and has nothing to do with how think a line is vertically (and how correspondingly narrow the gap between lines are). That's beam focus, which has a lot to do with the tube, the flyback, and monitor condition.

see posts 2&3 "To avoid confusion, the TV-line (TVL) count is measuring horizontal resolution (or rather ability to resolve horizontal detail), not vertical resolution. "

& then when I said "Okay. Thanks for the reply. Sorry about that. Horizontal Lines. "

However, let me state for the record that I already knew this and that it was just a mistake. In any case. I am going to start a new thread because it is clearly not focused on the topic anymore.

Best,

vol.2

[Taiyaki]

For what it's worth I find the consumer sets have the perfect amount of lines. Low line count PVM's can look really nice too. PVM's with 800 and up (and all BVM's) are just a bit too blocky for my tastes.

[vol.2]

For what it's worth I find the consumer sets have the perfect amount of lines. Low line count PVM's can look really nice too. PVM's with 800 and up (and all BVM's) are just a bit too blocky for my tastes.

Thanks. I'm used to a consumer Sony TV. But I am old and I still own five or six of them. What I am excited about now is trying something new. Thats why I became interested in RGB. As an American, I never had RGB, and component cables were even kind of scarce.

[FinalBaton]

Yeah, RGB on a good CRT was really tempting to me as well 2 years ago when I discovered its use for retro consoles. As a north american, I never experienced it back in the day. Hell, I didn't even use S-video. I was playing my consoles in composite and I was happy with it. Didn't even knew there were better signals available.

That's why I got so interested in pushing the limits of SD CRTs picture : because it was such a new and exciting experience for me, hehe

[vol.2]

Yeah, RGB on a good CRT was really tempting to me as well 2 years ago when I discovered its use for retro consoles. As a north american, I never experienced it back in the day. Hell, I didn't even use S-video. I was playing my consoles in composite and I was happy with it. Didn't even knew there were better signals available.

That's why I got so interested in pushing the limits of SD CRTs picture : because it was such a new and exciting experience for me, hehe

exactly.

BTW, I am wondering about the prospect of getting 240p out of my Sony kv-32hs510. It has an awesome pic and works flawlessly with 480p content without using the 16:9 enhanced mode, but I have been led to believe that it automatically digitally processes and upscales 240p to 480i or some such thing. Perhaps I should make a separate post about this, but I wonder if anyone out there has more detailed info about the kv-32hs510, I am all ears!
If I can't get 240p from the component in, perhaps it could be accomplished via (RGB [modded] Console->Kramer FC-14->Component In on TV)? Or if that doesn't work, maybe RGB modding the jungle IC?