What's the problem with long shmups? I don't get it. The longer a level lasts, the better for me. It takes time to develop a decent music theme with some melody variations, and often it also tries to stun you with environment and background changes. I'm thinking to Super Aleste or Pop n' Twinbee here (the latter being "long" due to the slow pae of background scrolling).
I remember the first time I put Raystorm into the psone. I played a bit of it and I was like "what?!? Must be a joke": each stage was around 30 secs long. Especially awful in the first two stages, since I liked the music, but there was no time to hum it that you approached the boss.
This must be another dominant taste of verts/manic/ddp lovers.
Longest SHMUP that doesn't suck?
I'll ask this again since everyone ignored it. Are the GG Aleste games long shmups? Has Compile ever made a short shmup? As far as I know, the shortest Compile shmup is the Master System Aleste with 6 stages, but that doesn't count becuase it's a port of a game that has two more stages, and long stages at that.
BTW, I have no problem with long shmups. In fact, it's one of the very reasons I love Compile. I also love Iridion II and the Gradius series.
And for the record, I own and love Blazing Lazers, The Guardian Legend, and Zanac and I plan to get MUSHA, GG Aleste II, Gun Nac, Zanac X Zanac, and the PCE Xevious. I also emulated some MSX Compile games.
And BTW, the reason I said "under the Compile name" is becuase some of their early games for the early Japan only SEGA systems and the MSX didn't use the name Compile. I said this to prevent confusion and becuase some of those shmups are probably much shorter than Compile's newer shmups.
BTW, I have no problem with long shmups. In fact, it's one of the very reasons I love Compile. I also love Iridion II and the Gradius series.
And for the record, I own and love Blazing Lazers, The Guardian Legend, and Zanac and I plan to get MUSHA, GG Aleste II, Gun Nac, Zanac X Zanac, and the PCE Xevious. I also emulated some MSX Compile games.
And BTW, the reason I said "under the Compile name" is becuase some of their early games for the early Japan only SEGA systems and the MSX didn't use the name Compile. I said this to prevent confusion and becuase some of those shmups are probably much shorter than Compile's newer shmups.
Last edited by BrianC on Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Shatterhand
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Wanna a LONG shmup?
Gulkave. That has to be the longest shump ever. It has 32 stages... 32 LONG stages. I never finished the thing.. I think I was already playing for a little more than a hour and still was in level 18 or something
It was published by Sega for the MSX and the SG-1000 computer.
Take a guess for who developed it? Yeah, Compile
I can't remember any short Compile shmup... maybe Final Justice isn't that long, but I never beat level 3 anyway, and I have no idea of how many levels it has.
Guardic is other shmup from them that is EXTREMELY long. It has, if I am not mistaken, 112 levels. Each level is single-screen with lots of enemies, and lasts about 1-2 minutes, but you don't have to go through all them, thank god
Gulkave. That has to be the longest shump ever. It has 32 stages... 32 LONG stages. I never finished the thing.. I think I was already playing for a little more than a hour and still was in level 18 or something
It was published by Sega for the MSX and the SG-1000 computer.
Take a guess for who developed it? Yeah, Compile
I can't remember any short Compile shmup... maybe Final Justice isn't that long, but I never beat level 3 anyway, and I have no idea of how many levels it has.
Guardic is other shmup from them that is EXTREMELY long. It has, if I am not mistaken, 112 levels. Each level is single-screen with lots of enemies, and lasts about 1-2 minutes, but you don't have to go through all them, thank god
That and one thing I like about shmups is I can sit down for a half hour, play, and then do something else. Often they serve as "quick fixes" for me.Ganelon wrote:You make valid points from a casual perspective but long shmups are annoying to 1CC since if you lose all your lives at one of the last bosses, it'll take a long time to get back to where you were.Turrican wrote:What's the problem with long shmups? I don't get it.
The longer shmups I tend to never play because I don't want to blast away a bunch of time. So I rarely have time to play them (I haven't really touched Gradius V since the US comp).
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Darkcomet72
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Well... That's because 19XX is one of the gest games ever made.Frogacuda wrote:Raizing made it, not Capom. I also found the level design sloppy and bland. 19XX was so much better.dave4shmups wrote:"1944 is an unmitigated disaster."
I'm afraid I would have to agree. Capcom did everything right in this game, EXCEPT for the fact that your plane's main and only weapon is totally inadequate to deal with the game's larger enemies, especially the bosses.
1944 is a good game in it's own right. It's alot more complex than people take it for.
Ed: He asked for mustard Eddy! Do you have corn in your ears mister?
I have a few complaints with Tyrian, really all versions through 2000. They kind of tie together.
- Weapon balance. There is none. Basically any weapon will devastate the enemies on low difficulty levels, and nothing really works at high levels. I played on Impossible, and by the end of EP 5, the only way I could kill medium enemies in the last level was with the forward Laser, SDF Main Gun, and Plasma Storms together (They did improve balance a little in T2k, mostly by weakening Plasma Storms/Atom Bombs, but 90% of the weapons are still junk).
- Weapon pricing. I don't like the cost system at all. You can afford absolutely anything after about 1.5 episodes. This does keep the weapons within reach if you just want to play 1 episode at a time, but it feels like a letdown if you try to play the whole game in sequence.Raptor did weapon costs much better.
- Difficulty ranks. There are about three changes as you select higher difficulties -- stronger normal bullets, faster normal bullets, and higher enemy armor. That's it. Maybe this is just a personality flaw of mine, but IMO adding hit points to everything is about the worst way ever to raise difficulty. I make an exception for bosses, where incrreasing the length of the fight is fair enough, but normal enemies that still just zip across the screen in 2 seconds? Gah. If you want the player to dodge, you should use interesting bullet patterns, not make the enemies so strong that they'll plow you into the bottom of the screen, after you point-blank them for their whole on-screen duration with the strongest weapon available. Which leads to...
- Enemy design. Tyrian has very pretty enemies that don't do a whole lot. They have simple, fixed motion tracks and, with few exceptions, one of two types of shot: vertical and aimed. The only difficulty comes when you set the game rank high enough to make the aimed shots move much faster than your ship. Then, if you're near a corner and you get hit, the shot pushes you farther into the corner, and before you can get out a dozen more shots kill you.
I used to like Tyrian a lot, but then I played more shmups, and I stopped liking it. Tyrian 2000 is free now, and I thought I might try beating it on Lord rank or Engage mode, but it just seems too onerous. If you're looking for a severe challenge, try those. I don't think they're very fair challenges, though.
- Weapon balance. There is none. Basically any weapon will devastate the enemies on low difficulty levels, and nothing really works at high levels. I played on Impossible, and by the end of EP 5, the only way I could kill medium enemies in the last level was with the forward Laser, SDF Main Gun, and Plasma Storms together (They did improve balance a little in T2k, mostly by weakening Plasma Storms/Atom Bombs, but 90% of the weapons are still junk).
- Weapon pricing. I don't like the cost system at all. You can afford absolutely anything after about 1.5 episodes. This does keep the weapons within reach if you just want to play 1 episode at a time, but it feels like a letdown if you try to play the whole game in sequence.Raptor did weapon costs much better.
- Difficulty ranks. There are about three changes as you select higher difficulties -- stronger normal bullets, faster normal bullets, and higher enemy armor. That's it. Maybe this is just a personality flaw of mine, but IMO adding hit points to everything is about the worst way ever to raise difficulty. I make an exception for bosses, where incrreasing the length of the fight is fair enough, but normal enemies that still just zip across the screen in 2 seconds? Gah. If you want the player to dodge, you should use interesting bullet patterns, not make the enemies so strong that they'll plow you into the bottom of the screen, after you point-blank them for their whole on-screen duration with the strongest weapon available. Which leads to...
- Enemy design. Tyrian has very pretty enemies that don't do a whole lot. They have simple, fixed motion tracks and, with few exceptions, one of two types of shot: vertical and aimed. The only difficulty comes when you set the game rank high enough to make the aimed shots move much faster than your ship. Then, if you're near a corner and you get hit, the shot pushes you farther into the corner, and before you can get out a dozen more shots kill you.
I used to like Tyrian a lot, but then I played more shmups, and I stopped liking it. Tyrian 2000 is free now, and I thought I might try beating it on Lord rank or Engage mode, but it just seems too onerous. If you're looking for a severe challenge, try those. I don't think they're very fair challenges, though.
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Super Mega C
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Nuke
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For those of you that don't know, Tyrian 2000 is now freeware so go get it
Trek trough the Galaxy on silver wings and play football online.
Longest
Star Force (Arcade) is the longest, as it doesn't end. It has 26 stages at which point you reach "Infinity Stage" which carries on forever. The game only ends when you die. I was a bit too young to push this one when it came out, but my old shooting partner KAC (who is 2 years older than me) managed to reach Infinity Stage and score 6,000,000+
Random Trivia:- I estimate Tviks' 16 Looper on Gradius V to be a 22hour+ game. Which with pause breaks, must have taken over 2 days.
More Random Trivia:- Back in 1990, my friends ARC & ARM walked into a South London Snooker/Pool Hall at 11pm. They sighted Mills playing Truxton. Now.....keep in mind that Truxton never stops between stages (no WC breaks)....At 11pm Mills was 10 hours into the game at 19,000,000 on the 13th Loop.
About 3 hours later, ARC & ARM heard a great crashing sound.....It was Mills punching the screen through! He had died at 23,000.000 on the 16th Loop after 12 non-stop hours. You'd think he'd be relieved. You'd expect him to be satisfied! But NO - he was upset
Yet More:- KAC COUNTER STOPPED Stargate (Defender II) in the arcade. This must have been a long game also, I'll ask him.
Regs, DEL
Random Trivia:- I estimate Tviks' 16 Looper on Gradius V to be a 22hour+ game. Which with pause breaks, must have taken over 2 days.
More Random Trivia:- Back in 1990, my friends ARC & ARM walked into a South London Snooker/Pool Hall at 11pm. They sighted Mills playing Truxton. Now.....keep in mind that Truxton never stops between stages (no WC breaks)....At 11pm Mills was 10 hours into the game at 19,000,000 on the 13th Loop.
About 3 hours later, ARC & ARM heard a great crashing sound.....It was Mills punching the screen through! He had died at 23,000.000 on the 16th Loop after 12 non-stop hours. You'd think he'd be relieved. You'd expect him to be satisfied! But NO - he was upset
Yet More:- KAC COUNTER STOPPED Stargate (Defender II) in the arcade. This must have been a long game also, I'll ask him.
Regs, DEL
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Super Mega C
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It never ends, it just keeps looping.BrianC wrote:I liked what I played of the arcade and NES Tiger Heli, but are you serious or joking? Keep is mind this is supposed to be for games that are long while still being a great deal of fun to play.Super Mega C wrote:Tiger Heli
Button masher extrordinaire
"and on the eighth day, he stopped resting"
"and on the eighth day, he stopped resting"
So it really doesn't count. Did you read the first post in this topic?Super Mega C wrote:It never ends, it just keeps looping.BrianC wrote:I liked what I played of the arcade and NES Tiger Heli, but are you serious or joking? Keep is mind this is supposed to be for games that are long while still being a great deal of fun to play.Super Mega C wrote:Tiger Heli
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Nuke
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Final Star Force has 10 levels...... 
Trek trough the Galaxy on silver wings and play football online.
I usually prefer to play short shmups, so then if i have to stop in the middle I'm not so bummed out about having to quit or even start over.
But something about playing a long shmup like Gradius V or R-Type Delta, it just feels like such an accomplishment when you get to a new area. I think with the game lasting for so long, you just keep playing and getting more and more into it, noticing every detail and nuance, becoming totally absorbed, and when I get farther in the game it's just so exciting for me.
But something about playing a long shmup like Gradius V or R-Type Delta, it just feels like such an accomplishment when you get to a new area. I think with the game lasting for so long, you just keep playing and getting more and more into it, noticing every detail and nuance, becoming totally absorbed, and when I get farther in the game it's just so exciting for me.