DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

[Elixir]

I just want a decent home release of straight up DDP.

You know, this gets me thinking. Why are non-AAA/indie JP devs so hesistant to make their games more accessable to the western crowd?

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p1194593

[shoryusatsu999]

If reviewers don't put effort on the games, why do they review them?

It makes them money and lets them push their opinions to the masses. Simple as that.

That is, assuming they think it's notable enough to even merit a review, or even a mention. Can't say I remember the last time a mainstream review outfit's reviewed a bona-fide shmup, let alone posted an article that mentions the genre without claiming that shmups are dead, dying, and/or outdated.

[Illyrian]

Good lord it has every game mode, including ketsuipachi.

For sure I am getting this.

[NickPalmerDegica]

https://www.twitch.tv/degigames

We are doing a stream of the steam version in just a few minutes. Yom is setting up now.

[The Coop]

So for the first week, $25.49 will get you every version of DDPR and the OST? Sounds good.

[Bananamatic]

ketsuipachi has way, way too much slowdown if this is the final version
and it's supposed to be the main selling point
where the fuck were those "superplayers" testing this? even people who just watched a few replays can tell it's way off

[Glick]

Ketsuipachi did seem pretty broken on that stream

[NickPalmerDegica]

Both Yom and myself sent emails to the Degica CAVE laison asking that they look into the Ketsuipachi slowdown. It may have been machine specific. I don't remember it slowing down that much on my machine, but admittedly, I haven't played the original/360 versions so I have no frame of reference to compare it to.

Either way, we'll try to figure out what happened, and polish it up.

[Bananamatic]

according to the steam page it should run on a toaster and he had no issues with the other modes

[defected78]

Think these cave games need a new developer.

Deathsmiles unplayable due to no slowdown.

DDP slowdown gone all wrong.

The most important aspect of Cave shmups and they cant grasp this. At least as someone else said have these tested by proper players.

[Bananamatic]

The most important aspect of Cave shmups and they cant grasp this. At least as someone else said have these tested by proper players.

the extra slowdown is so excessive and blatant compared to the 360 release that there is no way they could be unaware of it being wrong

my theory is that it's the same damn issue as deathsmiles, one of the modes has too much slowdown and arrange A has not enough due to how the games were made for 360
in other words don't expect a fix because they just don't know how to fix it

the worse part is that this case is way worse than deathsmiles which arguably had too much slowdown and it was rather playable even without it, some even said that it was better that way
adding slowdown this extreme to a game that has none at some points (especially hivac) just ruins the difficulty to the point where difficult things become pretty much trivial, not to mention it becomes way more tedious to play

unless this whole thing was just yom getting fps drops on stream

[defected78]

My moneys on Blue Revolver.

The Deathsmiles money was wasted as I had hope for a patch and the refund period expired.

Porting 360 games to Steam is no good if slowdown doesn't replicate.

[max2016]

unless this whole thing was just yom getting fps drops on stream

We can hope and pray. Though I was also hoping this game would be toaster friendly

[NickPalmerDegica]

Ok so I just played the first two stages of Black label Arrange, then started my recording at the same time as when Yom started it in the stream.

It took SIGNIFICANTLY less time for me to get to the first boss. And the first boss is going through patterns and the bullets are moving faster on my machine.

It isn't universally messed up. It was machine specific. We'll try to identify the issues, but I promise, that the amount of slowdown he was experiencing was probably fps drop on his machine, not coded in.

EDIT: I'm uploading my playthrough video right now, so you can watch me be really bad at the game. (will take a while because my upload speed is traaaaaash (which is one of the reasons I don't stream myself))

EDIT: Also, also, I think there is just something up with Yom's setup, like not even related to specs, because he was having fps drops in RefRain as well, which doesn't require a very powerful computer (and was the reason I had his specs in an email)

[d3vak]

I will buy it today just to support the people behind it. I hope patches will come eventually though.

Has CAVE made any substantial profit out of porting the games to Steam so far?

[CRI]

My moneys on Blue Revolver.

same here. just bought blue revolver and will skip dfk for now.
cave games are my fav. stg's and i love degica for bringing shmups to steam.
but at the last shmup sale on steam i bought some degica ports and i'm really dissatisfied with the port quality.
for example first time i started minus zero i was looking everywere for a fullscreen option just to find out this game don't support fullscreen.
really? the only games i know that don't support fullscreen are windows games like solitaire.
then i played refrain and the game had stutters to the point were it wasn't fun anymore.
checked the steam community and it's a known problem and the game won't run well on modern systems. so i can't play that.
i really wanted to support degica and there shmup ports but i start to regret that i did not refund this games.

[NickPalmerDegica]

Took me a bit, as i needed to rerecord the level with a lower bitrate (I'm used to recording for our trailers, which makes huge files, just wanted proof of what I was saying, so this is not a super high quality video).

Anyway, you can take a look of how it plays on my machine here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzLEU ... mdHY2dkN1E

[Oniros]

The most important aspect of Cave shmups and they cant grasp this. At least as someone else said have these tested by proper players.

the extra slowdown is so excessive and blatant compared to the 360 release that there is no way they could be unaware of it being wrong

my theory is that it's the same damn issue as deathsmiles, one of the modes has too much slowdown and arrange A has not enough due to how the games were made for 360
in other words don't expect a fix because they just don't know how to fix it

the worse part is that this case is way worse than deathsmiles which arguably had too much slowdown and it was rather playable even without it, some even said that it was better that way
adding slowdown this extreme to a game that has none at some points (especially hivac) just ruins the difficulty to the point where difficult things become pretty much trivial, not to mention it becomes way more tedious to play

unless this whole thing was just yom getting fps drops on stream

A lot of Cave staff have left in the past 2 years so I think you're on the money here. They are probably missing key people who can assert what the correct slowdown for a particular game is. Even if they want to, newer staff probably can't figure out themselves or it just takes a much longer time to do so.

[NickPalmerDegica]

then i played refrain and the game had stutters to the point were it wasn't fun anymore.
checked the steam community and it's a known problem and the game won't run well on modern systems. so i can't play that.

I have a roughly 1 year old, pretty solid computer that is running w10 and RefRain runs perfectly. I don't think modern systems are an issue with it. I know there are a few system builds that are having some issues, but it isn't "modern systems", it is much more specific hardware wise than that. (and it is being worked on).

[OmegaFlareX]

That makes me a little nervous, since I also have a below-spec PC from 2009 (Core2Duo E8400, GTX 260, everything version 2 [SATA, USB, DDR, PCIE]). Mushi and DS run fine, though. I've had zero tech problems with them. Unlike those, I won't be able to buy DFK day 1 - will have to wait until December.

In addition to Yom's apparent toaster, he was outputting 1200 kbp/s 30fps, the stream quality was garbage. Surely there is another person in this community you can get to stream for you with a better rig and internet connection.

[clippa]

it isn't "modern systems", it is much more specific hardware wise than that

Yeah, runs perfectly on both my pc's and they're both pretty newish components running windows 7.

[CRI]

hmm maybe i have just misread something there.
i only played refrain one time and after that i checked the steam community and found this post by degicagames:

I'm encountering frame rate issues/stuttering while playing the game? The game was made with Directx 8 which is not well supported with recent hardware. We are looking into updating it to a more recent version if possible.

thought that mean it's a problem with modern hardware and gave up on the game.
but if a patch shows up thats awesome. then i can finally play the game.

[Bananamatic]

Took me a bit, as i needed to rerecord the level with a lower bitrate (I'm used to recording for our trailers, which makes huge files, just wanted proof of what I was saying, so this is not a super high quality video).

Anyway, you can take a look of how it plays on my machine here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzLEU ... mdHY2dkN1E

that looks fairly accurate
according to steam, the min requirements are Intel Core i3 2GHz or better, Intel HD Graphics 5000, Geforce 9500GT, Radeon HD 3650 or above, vs yom's Intel Core i7 CPU Q840 @1.87GHz, Nvidia Quadro FX 2800M

his gpu should be above the min according to benchmarks, not sure how i3 and i7 measure against each other
though it really was just BL arrange having those issues on stream, once he went back to BL it was ok again

[STGAlmond]

Took me a bit, as i needed to rerecord the level with a lower bitrate (I'm used to recording for our trailers, which makes huge files, just wanted proof of what I was saying, so this is not a super high quality video).

Anyway, you can take a look of how it plays on my machine here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzLEU ... mdHY2dkN1E

that looks fairly accurate
according to steam, the min requirements are Intel Core i3 2GHz or better, Intel HD Graphics 5000, Geforce 9500GT, Radeon HD 3650 or above, vs yom's Intel Core i7 CPU Q840 @1.87GHz, Nvidia Quadro FX 2800M

his gpu should be above the min according to benchmarks, not sure how i3 and i7 measure against each other
though it really was just BL arrange having those issues on stream, once he went back to BL it was ok again

Quick and dirty comparison on the CPU would be to just look at the clock. Min is 2GHz and he is a bit below that. The FX 2800m scores 680 on videocardbenchmarks and hd 5000 scores 591. It sounds like he is riding just below requirements, and he was streaming.

[Xyga]

It's not really a matter of power here, repeating what I've said earlier about Mushi, on the same - below requirements - laptop (i3-4030u 1.9GHz igpu HD4400 + GeForce 820M, Win 8.1) I can freely choose which gpu will handle the game and neither's struggling, but running it differently: the weaker HD4400 runs it smoothly when the more powerful 820M gives hiccups or rather skips a frame from time-to-time, breaking the pace.
Those requirements on the steam page have probably been picked at random.

It's most certainly as iirc trap15 said, the 360 ports were made for a fixed hardware/platform, so unless someone at cave has a stroke of genius finding how to simulate or emulate (don't know the proper term here) the same environment, you can bet all the speed and stability issues will remain, no matter how strong the PC.

[Bananamatic]

how is the game supposed to behave at below spec anyways? because the slowdown looked smooth, as if it was ingame rather than the game dropping frames

gonna test mushi with the processor maxed out just to see what happens

[clippa]

If the games timing is tied to the framerate then if your system struggles it'll just result in the framerate dipping and game running slower. So if you used something like dxtory to cap the framerate at 30fps, the game would run at half speed.
I think this is all that was happening here, he wasn't keeping a stable 60fps, I buy the explanation that his cpu is underpowered and on top of running the game, he was streaming, causing the game to slow down more than usual.

edit: Just captured some footage of mushi with the framerate capped at 30 - http://sendvid.com/0uox9rv2

[Bananamatic]

he just said that the game was running at 15% cpu and it did the same thing even with the stream off

[clippa]

Could be his gpu that's the bottleneck then, it has a 3d mark rating of "680" compared to the gtx 980's "9717".
Well, we'll see soon enough I suppose.
We should all time the first stage of ketsuipachi when the game releases and see if we all get wildly different results. If we do, that one coder left at cave is going to have a miserable weekend

[Van_Artic]

its out
grab it, feedback it etc etc yall know what to do

break it down