Input lag even with Shmupmame

[ulti]

Hope I'm posting this in the right category as the problem seems to be with my rig and not Shmupmame itself.

So I've been playing a lot of Ketsui lately and it's brought me to the realization that I have a very noticeable amount of input lag on both my keyboard and mouse inputs. I have been trying to figure out for a while what is causing this, and so far I have had no results.

Things that I have already tried:
-Different keyboard (no noticable difference)
-Different monitor (which is irrelevant anyways since my main monitor has a low response time of 3.4ms)
-Disabling C1E and HPET in the BIOS settings (no noticable difference)
-Turning off non-Microsoft bootup services

Rig:
CPU: AMD FX-8320
GPU: ASUS Radeon R9 280 DirectCU II
MB : ASUS M5A99X EVO R2.0
HDD: TOSHIBA DT01ACA200

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

Turning off Windows aero also helps if on Windows 7, not sure if you can on 8 and above..

[ulti]

Didn't change anything, I get a feeling it's a lot more complicated than that.

[Xyga]

Response time and lag on flat panels, although related to an extent, are two different things. You can have a very responsive panel with a lot of lag and vice versa.

Regarding MAME, the lag it 'produces' also depends on which API you're using for video output, on pretty much any Windows Direct3D either with vsync or triplebuffer, produces quite a bit of lag.
Falling back to DirectDraw might help, although the picture quality will be inferior.

In any case ShmupMAME is now obsolete, a better build for lower-than-other-builds lag is GroovyMAME.
Up to build v0.170 or 0.171 iirc you can use Direct3D9ex for video output, that particular version of the API doesn't buffer many frames like the others, and it works up to Win 10.
With the newer builds (current is 0.178) the authors recommends using BGFX for video output for the same lag reduction previously availabe with D3D9ex.

GroovyMAME lacks a built-in GUI, and requires to have some basic starting settings like the choice of the vido output edited in the mame.ini (which you first need to create through command line) just those little things typically make the average MAME user stay away from this build, but that's too bad because it's really the best.

PS: there are also people who prefer leaving whatever MAME build they use 'sync off' (all sync and buffer settings turned off) and instead force vsync using their graphics card's control panel options, which also sometimes allow to set the number of delayed frames. But that doesn't always work as intended.

[Lord of Pirates]

Have you tried a KB/mouse that have 1ms polling rate or PS/2 KB/mouse?

[ulti]

Guess I wasn't clear enough in my explaination, this input lag is global. No matter what I'm doing, what game I'm playing, the lag is there.

Response time and lag on flat panels, although related to an extent, are two different things. You can have a very responsive panel with a lot of lag and vice versa.

Right, I was just getting the possibilty of it being a problem with the monitor out of the way.

Regarding MAME, the lag it 'produces' also depends on which API you're using for video output, on pretty much any Windows Direct3D either with vsync or triplebuffer, produces quite a bit of lag.
Falling back to DirectDraw might help, although the picture quality will be inferior.

In any case ShmupMAME is now obsolete, a better build for lower-than-other-builds lag is GroovyMAME

Up to build v0.170 or 0.171 iirc you can use Direct3D9ex for video output, that particular version of the API doesn't buffer many frames like the others, and it works up to Win 10.
With the newer builds (current is 0.178) the authors recommends using BGFX for video output for the same lag reduction previously availabe with D3D9ex.

GroovyMAME lacks a built-in GUI, and requires to have some basic starting settings like the choice of the vido output edited in the mame.ini (which you first need to create through command line) just those little things typically make the average MAME user stay away from this build, but that's too bad because it's really the best.].

I tried GroovyMAME today and I'm having lag almost 2x as worse even after having disabled vsync and triple buffering. Not so sure what's up with that.

PS: there are also people who prefer leaving whatever MAME build they use 'sync off' (all sync and buffer settings turned off) and instead force vsync using their graphics card's control panel options, which also sometimes allow to set the number of delayed frames. But that doesn't always work as intended.

I'll have to keep that in mind, thanks.

Have you tried a KB/mouse that have 1ms polling rate or PS/2 KB/mouse?

Unfortunately I only have a 500hz mouse, but my KB is 1000hz, so that doesn't seem to be the problem.

[Xyga]

I tried GroovyMAME today and I'm having lag almost 2x as worse even after having disabled vsync and triple buffering. Not so sure what's up with that.

Dunno, GroovyMAME is aknowledged as being effectively capable of reducing lag compared to other builds, like ShmupMAME though by different means and without using any drivers hack that would damage the game's graphics and behaviour.

With older Groovy (0.170 or older) make sure you have edited mame.ini and set the following in the mame.ini

Code: Select all

#
# CORE SWITCHRES OPTIONS
#
monitor                   lcd

#
# OSD VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video                     d3d9ex

#
# OSD FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
switchres                 1

You don't have to change anything else for a basic default configuration since either waitvsync or triplebuffer will be handled automatically/dynamically by the integrated SwitchRes app (so leave waitvsync and triplebuffer on 0, also making sure your gfx card is completely open and not already forcing either on its side, like 'let the 3d app decide/control' something-setting).

With the more recent builds (0.178) it's like this;

Code: Select all

#
# CORE PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
#
autosync                  1

#
# CORE SWITCHRES OPTIONS
#
monitor                   lcd

#
# OSD VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video                     bgfx

#
# OSD FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
switchres                 1   (it should already be set to 1 by default anyway)

Again make sure your gfx cart is completely controlled by the app.

Note those are really basic starting default settings for lower lag on flat panels without bothering much yet with Groovy's more advanced possibilities.

If neither works then you probably have something else going on, yes...

[ulti]

You don't have to change anything else for a basic default configuration since either waitvsync or triplebuffer will be handled automatically/dynamically by the integrated SwitchRes app (so leave waitvsync and triplebuffer on 0, also making sure your gfx card is completely open and not already forcing either on its side, like 'let the 3d app decide/control' something-setting).

Theyre off in the .ini and in my global GPU settings but that hasn't changed anything. http://imgur.com/qfn4VdI
I'm also now getting an error after changing some ini settings: "SwitchRes: Monitor type unknown: 1cd" It still works but every time I load a ROM or open the app I get this error now.

Note those are really basic starting default settings for lower lag on flat panels without bothering much yet with Groovy's more advanced possibilities.

If neither works then you probably have something else going on, yes...

I'm guessing that I'm messing something up since there's a drastic difference between the input lag in ShmupMame and GroovyMame.
Could you paste me the code from your .ini? Something in mine may just be off.
Whatever the case is, I do still think that something else going on given that i can even see/feel the input lag as I type this reply out.

[Xyga]

"SwitchRes: Monitor type unknown: 1cd" It still works but every time I load a ROM or open the app I get this error now.

Yes there's a major issue there, I'm not sure about that error (ask on groovymame forums if it persists) but it seems to tell it doesn't pick up the properties of your monitor, Groovy won't work correctly without those.
Maybe you can try forcing the identity and properties in the following menu;

Code: Select all

#
# OSD PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS
#
screen                    \\.\DISPLAY1    (or whatever the targeted monitor ID #)
aspect                    16:9            (or corresponding aspect)
resolution                1920x1080@0     (your resolution, you can leave '@0' since it should pick its refresh up if it works anyway)

Whatever the case is, I do still think that something else going on given that i can even see/feel the input lag as I type this reply out.

Ouch...

Could you paste me the code from your .ini? Something in mine may just be off.

Here you go, although I didn't change much more than what I've already posted (I make individual settings in separate .ini for unique games or drivers):
(This is from GroovyMAME 0.178's mame.ini)

Spoiler

Code: Select all

#
# CORE CONFIGURATION OPTIONS
#
readconfig                1
writeconfig               0

#
# CORE SEARCH PATH OPTIONS
#
rompath                   roms;bios;devices
hashpath                  hash
samplepath                samples
artpath                   artwork
ctrlrpath                 ctrlr
inipath                   .;ini;ini/presets
fontpath                  .
cheatpath                 cheat
crosshairpath             crosshair
pluginspath               plugins
languagepath              language

#
# CORE OUTPUT DIRECTORY OPTIONS
#
cfg_directory             cfg
nvram_directory           nvram
input_directory           inp
state_directory           sta
snapshot_directory        snap
diff_directory            diff
comment_directory         comments

#
# CORE STATE/PLAYBACK OPTIONS
#
state                     
autosave                  0
playback                  
record                    
record_timecode           0
exit_after_playback       0
mngwrite                  
aviwrite                  
wavwrite                  
snapname                  %g/%i
snapsize                  auto
snapview                  internal
snapbilinear              1
statename                 %g
burnin                    0

#
# CORE PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
#
autoframeskip             0
frameskip                 0
seconds_to_run            0
throttle                  1
syncrefresh               0
autosync                  1
sleep                     1
speed                     1.0
refreshspeed              0

#
# CORE RENDER OPTIONS
#
keepaspect                1
unevenstretch             1
unevenstretchx            0
unevenstretchy            0
autostretchxy             0
intoverscan               0
intscalex                 0
intscaley                 0

#
# CORE ROTATION OPTIONS
#
rotate                    1
ror                       0
rol                       0
autoror                   0
autorol                   0
flipx                     0
flipy                     0

#
# CORE ARTWORK OPTIONS
#
artwork_crop              1
use_backdrops             0
use_overlays              0
use_bezels                0
use_cpanels               0
use_marquees              0

#
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
brightness                1.0
contrast                  1.0
gamma                     1.0
pause_brightness          1.0
effect                    none

#
# CORE VECTOR OPTIONS
#
beam_width_min            1.0
beam_width_max            1.0
beam_intensity_weight     0
flicker                   0

#
# CORE SOUND OPTIONS
#
samplerate                48000
samples                   1
volume                    0

#
# CORE INPUT OPTIONS
#
coin_lockout              1
ctrlr                     
mouse                     0
joystick                  1
lightgun                  0
multikeyboard             0
multimouse                0
steadykey                 0
ui_active                 0
offscreen_reload          0
joystick_map              auto
joystick_deadzone         0.3
joystick_saturation       0.85
natural                   0
joystick_contradictory    0
coin_impulse              0

#
# CORE INPUT AUTOMATIC ENABLE OPTIONS
#
paddle_device             keyboard
adstick_device            keyboard
pedal_device              keyboard
dial_device               keyboard
trackball_device          keyboard
lightgun_device           keyboard
positional_device         keyboard
mouse_device              mouse

#
# CORE DEBUGGING OPTIONS
#
verbose                   0
log                       0
oslog                     0
debug                     0
update_in_pause           0
debugscript               

#
# CORE COMM OPTIONS
#
comm_localhost            0.0.0.0
comm_localport            15112
comm_remotehost           127.0.0.1
comm_remoteport           15112

#
# CORE MISC OPTIONS
#
drc                       1
drc_use_c                 0
drc_log_uml               0
drc_log_native            0
bios                      
cheat                     1
skip_gameinfo             0
uifont                    default
ui                        cabinet
ramsize                   
confirm_quit              0
ui_mouse                  1
autoboot_command          
autoboot_delay            0
autoboot_script           
console                   0
plugins                   1
plugin                    
noplugin                  
language                  English

#
# CORE SWITCHRES OPTIONS
#
modeline_generation       1
monitor                   lcd
orientation               horizontal
connector                 auto
interlace                 1
doublescan                1
super_width               2560
changeres                 1
powerstrip                0
lock_system_modes         1
lock_unsupported_modes    1
refresh_dont_care         0
dotclock_min              0
sync_refresh_tolerance    2.5
frame_delay               0
vsync_offset              0
black_frame_insertion     0
modeline                  auto
ps_timing                 auto
lcd_range                 auto
crt_range0                auto
crt_range1                auto
crt_range2                auto
crt_range3                auto
crt_range4                auto
crt_range5                auto
crt_range6                auto
crt_range7                auto
crt_range8                auto
crt_range9                auto

#
# OSD KEYBOARD MAPPING OPTIONS
#
uimodekey                 SCRLOCK

#
# OSD FONT OPTIONS
#
uifontprovider            auto

#
# OSD OUTPUT OPTIONS
#
output                    auto

#
# OSD INPUT OPTIONS
#
keyboardprovider          auto
mouseprovider             auto
lightgunprovider          auto
joystickprovider          auto

#
# OSD DEBUGGING OPTIONS
#
debugger                  auto
debugger_font             auto
debugger_font_size        0
watchdog                  0

#
# OSD PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
#
numprocessors             auto
bench                     0

#
# OSD VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video                     bgfx
numscreens                1
window                    0
maximize                  1
waitvsync                 0
monitorprovider           auto

#
# OSD PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS
#
screen                    auto
aspect                    auto
resolution                auto
view                      auto
screen0                   auto
aspect0                   auto
resolution0               auto
view0                     auto
screen1                   auto
aspect1                   auto
resolution1               auto
view1                     auto
screen2                   auto
aspect2                   auto
resolution2               auto
view2                     auto
screen3                   auto
aspect3                   auto
resolution3               auto
view3                     auto

#
# OSD FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
switchres                 1

#
# OSD ACCELERATED VIDEO OPTIONS
#
filter                    1
prescale                  1

#
# OpenGL-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
#
gl_forcepow2texture       0
gl_notexturerect          0
gl_vbo                    1
gl_pbo                    1
gl_glsl                   0
gl_glsl_filter            1
glsl_shader_mame0         none
glsl_shader_mame1         none
glsl_shader_mame2         none
glsl_shader_mame3         none
glsl_shader_mame4         none
glsl_shader_mame5         none
glsl_shader_mame6         none
glsl_shader_mame7         none
glsl_shader_mame8         none
glsl_shader_mame9         none
glsl_shader_screen0       none
glsl_shader_screen1       none
glsl_shader_screen2       none
glsl_shader_screen3       none
glsl_shader_screen4       none
glsl_shader_screen5       none
glsl_shader_screen6       none
glsl_shader_screen7       none
glsl_shader_screen8       none
glsl_shader_screen9       none

#
# OSD SOUND OPTIONS
#
sound                     auto
audio_latency             2.0

#
# BGFX POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
bgfx_path                 bgfx
bgfx_backend              auto
bgfx_debug                0
bgfx_screen_chains        default
bgfx_shadow_mask          slot-mask.png
bgfx_avi_name             auto

#
# WINDOWS PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
#
priority                  0
profile                   0

#
# WINDOWS VIDEO OPTIONS
#
menu                      0

#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlslpath                  hlsl
hlsl_enable               0
hlsl_oversampling         0
hlsl_write                auto
hlsl_snap_width           2048
hlsl_snap_height          1536
shadow_mask_tile_mode     0
shadow_mask_alpha         0.0
shadow_mask_texture       shadow-mask.png
shadow_mask_x_count       6
shadow_mask_y_count       4
shadow_mask_usize         0.1875
shadow_mask_vsize         0.25
shadow_mask_uoffset       0.0
shadow_mask_voffset       0.0
distortion                0.0
cubic_distortion          0.0
distort_corner            0.0
round_corner              0.0
smooth_border             0.0
reflection                0.0
vignetting                0.0
scanline_alpha            0.0
scanline_size             1.0
scanline_height           1.0
scanline_variation        1.0
scanline_bright_scale     1.0
scanline_bright_offset    0.0
scanline_jitter           0.0
hum_bar_alpha             0.0
defocus                   0.0,0.0
converge_x                0.0,0.0,0.0
converge_y                0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_x         0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_y         0.0,0.0,0.0
red_ratio                 1.0,0.0,0.0
grn_ratio                 0.0,1.0,0.0
blu_ratio                 0.0,0.0,1.0
saturation                1.0
offset                    0.0,0.0,0.0
scale                     1.0,1.0,1.0
power                     1.0,1.0,1.0
floor                     0.0,0.0,0.0
phosphor_life             0.0,0.0,0.0

#
# NTSC POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
yiq_enable                0
yiq_jitter                0.0
yiq_cc                    3.57954545
yiq_a                     0.5
yiq_b                     0.5
yiq_o                     0.0
yiq_p                     1.0
yiq_n                     1.0
yiq_y                     6.0
yiq_i                     1.2
yiq_q                     0.6
yiq_scan_time             52.6
yiq_phase_count           2

#
# VECTOR POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
vector_beam_smooth        0.0
vector_length_scale       0.5
vector_length_ratio       0.5

#
# BLOOM POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
bloom_blend_mode          0
bloom_scale               0.0
bloom_overdrive           1.0,1.0,1.0
bloom_lvl0_weight         1.0
bloom_lvl1_weight         0.64
bloom_lvl2_weight         0.32
bloom_lvl3_weight         0.16
bloom_lvl4_weight         0.08
bloom_lvl5_weight         0.06
bloom_lvl6_weight         0.04
bloom_lvl7_weight         0.02
bloom_lvl8_weight         0.01

#
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
triplebuffer              0
full_screen_brightness    1.0
full_screen_contrast      1.0
full_screen_gamma         1.0

#
# INPUT DEVICE OPTIONS
#
global_inputs             0
dual_lightgun             0

[ulti]

Using your .ini has made the resolution work properly but the lag is still the same. Just noticed that for whatever reason I still can't turn off vsync and your .ini didn't do so either even though waitvsync = 0. Might as well stick with ShmupMAME if this keeps up tbh.
Going to sleep, but hoping someone has the fix I'm looking for by tommorow. Good luck and good night (or afternoon).

[Ed Oscuro]

If you are noticing input lag even while typing, I think you might want to just open your Task Manager and have a look around. Your symptoms sound like the system has a bottleneck somewhere - high CPU usage, or low RAM, or low cache / disk cache set incorrectly (any hard disk related issue should be accompanied by noticeable hard drive activity, of course). If it's not out of the question, a reinstall of the OS is often a good way to get back to a clean baseline.

If you haven't checked it in a while, it's worthwhile to check out your hard drive's SMART attributes, via a defragmenter or other disk tool.

I would also turn HPET back on, since it's the best timer available; C1E is generally good too. Generally I see people fiddling with C1E when their CPU or software isn't very good at implementing different power states. I'm not familiar with that motherboard, so maybe it's gotten an update that improves C-states support, though I wouldn't mess with that unless you're sure you can get something fixed or get a performance boost. Generally speaking BIOSes have good defaults, and you shouldn't mess with them.

There are some minor Windows tweaks and things I could suggest to get some extra performance once you've gotten the major issue sorted.

[ulti]

If you are noticing input lag even while typing, I think you might want to just open your Task Manager and have a look around. Your symptoms sound like the system has a bottleneck somewhere - high CPU usage, or low RAM, or low cache / disk cache set incorrectly (any hard disk related issue should be accompanied by noticeable hard drive activity, of course). If it's not out of the question, a reinstall of the OS is often a good way to get back to a clean baseline.

The most that my CPU Usage jumps up to while I have both Waterfox and Shmupmame open is around 10-15% but it floats around 7% (I have 16GB of RAM), so that doesn't seem to be the problem. My HDD has a 64MB cache, so that isn't it either (what do you mean by "set incorrectly" though?). I just took out a decent chunk of files with CCleaner. I may try an OS reinstall sometime this week if i don't find the solution by then.
http://i.imgur.com/vnTS0kh.png http://i.imgur.com/UpbyEMg.png I'm not seeing anything odd here.

If you haven't checked it in a while, it's worthwhile to check out your hard drive's SMART attributes, via a defragmenter or other disk tool.

http://i.imgur.com/p2lSEqx.png Just ran a defrag program, Didn't know it was this bad. I'll get back to you once the defragmenting is done.
http://i.imgur.com/GqapBLJ.png Here's the SMART results and http://i.imgur.com/ET2WQop.png Here's my HDD speed results.

I would also turn HPET back on, since it's the best timer available; C1E is generally good too. Generally I see people fiddling with C1E when their CPU or software isn't very good at implementing different power states. I'm not familiar with that motherboard, so maybe it's gotten an update that improves C-states support, though I wouldn't mess with that unless you're sure you can get something fixed or get a performance boost. Generally speaking BIOSes have good defaults, and you shouldn't mess with them.

Alright, I'll set those back to normal when I reboot next time.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's easy for stuff to get that fragmented, but it's kind of a lol that Windows let it get that way. Maybe you're not letting your PC idle much like I seem to...and your disk seems fine, though I didn't go compare that CrystalDisk Info performance with any spec sheets or anything, it's probably just great too. Don't worry about cache settings; Windows sets them automatically and some goobers think they know better. If you haven't messed with it, now's definitely not a good time.

Your pictures for CPU usage look pretty good too. 4% seems a bit high for idling to me (but there may be a reason for this; I've not had an AMD processor for at least ten years). 7%, on the other hand, seems quite high to me. Do you see that after booting, once Windows and programs are finished loading?

For reference (or perhaps to recap), your 8-core CPU has AMD's relatively weak single-core performance and no hyperthreading. If a single-threaded program is maxing out on this CPU, Windows Task Manager will register this showing that process at 12.5%. In theory, since Windows itself is multithreaded, Waterfox should be running on just one core (at least until Mozilla moves to multiprocess support, which might change things) while Shmupmame has another core all to itself. But I don't know if this CPU will truly hit its full single-threaded potential with other tasks running at the same time.

[Lord of Pirates]

Have you tried closing Steam, Waterfox, and other software you don't need up or temporarily disabling AVG before running Shmupmame?

[ulti]

Your pictures for CPU usage look pretty good too. 4% seems a bit high for idling to me (but there may be a reason for this; I've not had an AMD processor for at least ten years). 7%, on the other hand, seems quite high to me. Do you see that after booting, once Windows and programs are finished loading?

That number was with a few programs open. This is what it looks like after everything has finished loading after booting. http://imgur.com/a/NlMyK Sticks around 1-4% with an occasional spike (was probably something loading).

For reference (or perhaps to recap), your 8-core CPU has AMD's relatively weak single-core performance and no hyperthreading. If a single-threaded program is maxing out on this CPU, Windows Task Manager will register this showing that process at 12.5%. In theory, since Windows itself is multithreaded, Waterfox should be running on just one core (at least until Mozilla moves to multiprocess support, which might change things) while Shmupmame has another core all to itself. But I don't know if this CPU will truly hit its full single-threaded potential with other tasks running at the same time.

Read below, that information seems to be irrelevant to the issue unforuntately (but I guess I now know why TF2 on my rig still runs unoptimally so that's nice).

Have you tried closing Steam, Waterfox, and other software you don't need up or temporarily disabling AVG before running Shmupmame?

Yeah, after a fresh boot and no non-Microsoft boot services loaded, AVG disabled, and no programs manually opened I still have the same amount of lag.
I guess I'll try doing a fresh install of Win7 tommorow, this is getting rediculous.

[rpgposer]

Is it just CAVE games that are laggy? The reason I ask is that I had severe control lag issues with mame 172 in my Naomi universal cabinet w/ a jvspac. Severe like I could control like normal for a minute or so, then whatever movements I made were shown SECONDS later on the screen. It was horrible and only with newer cave games. I updated to mame 178 and those issues disappeared. I of course ran a mame -cc to generate a new mame.cfg and changed video settings to optimize for CRT's.

[Xyga]

They've made a number of radical changes this year I think.

Regarding CAVE games I think the delay is different depending on the hardware/driver, at least the early ones on toaplan~ish hardware feel pretty snappy.

[rpgposer]

It certainly seems that way. I just wanted to post my observations with mame 172 and jvspac because OP mentioned he was going to reinstall windows. Seems a bit extreme when a newer version of mame might fix the issue.

[bobrocks95]

I forget, does safe mode disable graphics drivers? I'd say it's worth a shot to check and see if weird background programs are causing the issue.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'd second the idea to try a new version of MAME. I'm not sure that will fix the problem since the OP stated things feel laggy all the time, so maybe this is caused by some specific driver or setting, like Aero.

What version of Windows are we talking about, exactly?

[rpgposer]

I forget, does safe mode disable graphics drivers? I'd say it's worth a shot to check and see if weird background programs are causing the issue.

Safe mode doesn't load graphics drivers or direct x. If it did, I would just use safe mode for everything lol.

[ulti]

Is it just CAVE games that are laggy?

Regarding CAVE games I think the delay is different depending on the hardware/driver, at least the early ones on toaplan~ish hardware feel pretty snappy.

I'd second the idea to try a new version of MAME.

Again, this is something that I can feel even while doing stuff on the desktop and when playing other (Mame and non-Mame) games as well.
Mame 1.78 and Shmupmame 4.2 feel like they have practically the exact same lag, meanwhile GroovyMame is almost 2x is worse for some reason. Not so sure what other versions of Mame I could try.

I just wanted to post my observations with mame 172 and jvspac because OP mentioned he was going to reinstall windows. Seems a bit extreme when a newer version of mame might fix the issue.

Yeah I'm kinda rethinking reinstalling Win7, I'm just tired of this and I'm looking for easy answers where there might be none. But no, like I've said in the OP, the Mame version doesn't seem to be the problem, rather it seems to be my rig.

[Tatsuya79]

Try to reset your GPU settings / install a different driver.
Mother board drivers up do date under windows.

[Ed Oscuro]

So you are running Win7? (Why make me hunt for the answer to that important question...you want help, right?)

One thing you could try to do is poke around at suggestions on this page:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... erformance

Specifically, you'd want to look at the following sections:

"Turn off visual effects" I forget if Aero is one of these, but I never had that on when I was running Windows 7, using the Classic theme was just great, and I only enable a few visual options like "smooth scroll list boxes" and so on. Aero might just be adding that frame of lag.
"Clean up your hard disk" I think I missed this one. Probably won't help, but you might as well check this option out. It's usually quick enough to execute.
"Try the Performance troubleshooter"
"Limit how many programs run at startup"

in that order.

GPU stuff could be tried out after that. Specifically, you might want to download the latest AMD drivers, and try the DDU ("Display Driver Uninstaller") from Guru3D to clean out your drivers. Then reinstall the basic driver options you need, not installing anything you don't use.

[rpgposer]

Reinstalling the video driver and making sure your mobo bios is at the latest version are good ideas.
I have basic win 7 core i3 pc's with 4GB of ram and discrete video cards in both my cabs and am not experiencing overall lag.
Sounds like you might be at the point where your options are reinstalling windows or purchasing new hardware. Go for it. Tinkering is part of this hobby, and I know how frustrating it can be at times.

[gray117]

... if your assessment of the monitor is correct - which exact model is it? / perhaps try vs cheapo crt and/or with another laptop/pc/console - I'd just got to assume motherboard is at fault.

All this fiddling around should not be to address noticeable lag unless you were actually running @ 15fps or something...

[ulti]

Sorry for the lack of updates recently, but here's what I've done since then:
-Updated CPU, BIOS, and GPU drivers to their most recent versions
-Reset CPU, BIOS, and GPU settings
-Tried different arcade games under both Mame 1.78 and ShmupMame 4.2 for input lag
-Tried other PC shmups for input lag
-Tried various PC games for input lag
-Temporarily turned off all visual effects while playing
-Ran performance troubleshooter and Disk Cleanup
-Running Mame with admin privileges and higher Priority

Things I haven't tried yet:
-Using old/outdated drivers
-Reinstalling Win7 (yes Ed, I am currently running Win7 64-bit)
-Using a camera to estimate the amount of lag I have while doing various tasks/playing various games

My conclusions from all this testing I've done since my last post are that:
-None of the driver/software tweaking or troubleshooting has made a noticable difference
-ShmupMame is definitely faster compared to Mame 1.78
-I need to do further testing to see if both my keyboard and mouse inputs have similar amounts of lag, because it seems to be only the keyboard
-I'm now less sure if it's a hardware problem or a software problem

... if your assessment of the monitor is correct - which exact model is it? / perhaps try vs cheapo crt and/or with another laptop/pc/console - I'd just got to assume motherboard is at fault.
All this fiddling around should not be to address noticeable lag unless you were actually running @ 15fps or something...

The screens I use are an EZIO FS2333 (this is the screen with the 3.4ms response time I was talking about) and an ASUS VW193S (2nd screen). Emulation runs at 100% performance every time as far as I'm concerned.

[Xyga]

Could you paste your own .INIs from all three builds ? (regular MAME, GroovyMAME, ShmupMAME)

Also have you tried both old and new Groovy's with the precise settings I gave you ?

[Tatsuya79]

Try with only 1 screen, completely disable the other.
Use exclusive fullscreen / aero off.

[Lord of Pirates]

Have you tried checking your DPC latency? It might help to narrow down the cause of this.