Recca

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BrianC
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Re: Recca

Post by BrianC »

phase3 wrote:How different are we talking? I was under the impression that most changes were merely cosmetic or relating to the audio. Is it different enough to be considered a different game?
The NES version has faster bullets and meaner patterns than the FC version and uses a different mapper. I heard the hit boxes were changed, as well (not completely sure on this, just going by posts I read here). Maybe Decapattack was too extreme of an example, but it's an example of the game that uses the same assets to make something a bit different. I just find it a bit frustrating trying to explain how Star Force uses the FC version as a basis (like an elaborate hack, only official), only to have it fall on deaf ears. After Burner NES/FC is another frustrating example. Even GDRI was confused about whether or not it's a completely different port, despite using some of the same assets and the exact same Sunsoft mapper.

Speaking of different mappers, the US Sky Kid is a frustrating example of this. For some odd reason, it uses MMC1, when the JP version uses a Namco mapper that is closer to MMC3. It also changes the mirroring. It seems near identical at first glance, but the JP version seems to have somewhat smarter enemy AI and seems to run and scroll more smoothly. Thankfully, the version on US 3DS VC is the Japanese version. It even has "Namcot" intact.
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phase3
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Re: Recca

Post by phase3 »

I could pretend to know what exactly you mean by "mapper," but I'd rather just ask: What is it? :?
If you'd rather not bother going into specifics with me, the important thing I'd like to know is: which version is superior in your informed opinion?
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BrianC
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Re: Recca

Post by BrianC »

I'm not sure which version of Star Force is better, but the US version is definitely the harder one. Anyway, I don't know how to explain the mappers, but they are the special chips used in NES and Famicom games like MMC3. Mappers give the hardware a helping hand and can reduce slowdown and provide more advanced graphical features. The JP version has no special chip at all, but the US version has a special chip to allow for more advanced features. In other words, the US Star Force is more technically advanced version, but I'm not sure if the added difficulty results in better gameplay.

Anyway, the special chip used in the US Sky Kid is less advanced than the one used in the JP version, resulting in more slowdown in places. JP version is the clear winner here.

My point with After Burner is that the JP version is not a completely different port, but an improved version with shared assets. Despite Tengen publishing in the US, various info about the game (especially it using custom hardware designed by Sunsoft) suggests Sunsoft is responsible for both the US and JP versions.

Some of the comments in this youtube video explain some of the differences between the US/JP version of Star Force. One thing I find odd about both the NES and Famicom versions is the plain font (which is even used on the bosses) compared to the arcade and SG-1000 versions. No fancy Greek letters for bosses. :( There is a Japanese hack of the US Star Force that makes some graphics closer to the arcade and changes the font, though it doesn't restore the Greek letters on bosses.
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poodude
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Re: Recca

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Just a heads up for anyone looking for a repo Famicom cart, there is a guy on AliExpress selling carts that are almost indistinguishable from a real copy. He uses real carts and PCBs.
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Re: Recca

Post by poodude »

Also, why no love for star soldier? Amazing game.
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BrianC
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Re: Recca

Post by BrianC »

poodude wrote:Also, why no love for star soldier? Amazing game.
I like Star Soldier quite a bit, as well. I have the actual cart for NES, as well as a caravan style hack on the Everdrive.
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Obiwanshinobi
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Re: Recca

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

One thing I dislike about Star Force NES port is the stars backdrop (Famicom and even SG-1000 ports have that 8-bit starship game style backdrops I have a history with; no such luck on the NES). That said, NES port does look later-gen (think the difference between early and late Famicom software).
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phase3
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Re: Recca

Post by phase3 »

poodude wrote:Also, why no love for star soldier? Amazing game.
IMO, Star Soldier is almost as good as Star Force, but not quite. Star Soldier is slightly more appealing in terms of graphics and sound, but has these jarring enemy formations and patterns that tend to break the flow of the game, not to mention you'll occasionally cease fire when flying under terrain which can often be a little annoying. SF on the other hand never looses it's flow and has more consistent enemy patterns.

I have been getting into Star Soldier lately, though.
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Sumez
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Re: Recca

Post by Sumez »

poodude wrote:Just a heads up for anyone looking for a repo Famicom cart, there is a guy on AliExpress selling carts that are almost indistinguishable from a real copy. He uses real carts and PCBs.
Are we still talking about Star Force here? The original is dirt cheap, so why would anyone knowingly go for a bootleg?
Btw, how does Super Star Force compare to the original? I have both on Famicom, but never had the time to show them any love.

As for mappers. I don't know if you could say they "reduce slowdown", but their most important feature is definitely allowing the carts to store (a LOT) more data than the basic game without roms. For an obvious example, open Super Mario Bros. in FCEUX or any other emulator with a "PPU viewer". Notice how the graphics data remains the same throughout the entire game. Next, open something like Shatterhand, and you'll notice the graphics banks changing constantly, not just when you reach new levels, but when new enemies start appearing, or just to change frames for animations. That's a mapper chip doing that (or, obviously, the emulator emulating the mapper)
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phase3
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Re: Recca

Post by phase3 »

I think poodude was referring to Recca.
Sumez wrote:how does Super Star Force compare to the original?
I've never played SSF, but incase you didn't know it's one of those irritating hybrid games, sort of like Guardian Legend. You go through these portals at random points during the shooting stages that take you to shops and Zelda-esque dungeons. The points you accumulate while shooting is used as your health and currency, referred to in game as "time."
The game will require some fluency in Japanese, or at the very least a comprehensive guide. Many of the objects you'll have to find in order to complete the game are absurdly cryptic or altogether impossible to find without prior knowledge.
The shooting levels loop indefinitely until you have met some specific condition, like destroying certain scenery. As far as I can tell, the shooting levels look alright, but I'm not sure I could be bothered putting up with the dungeon exploration or the constant need for ship upgrades in order to enjoy them.
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poodude
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Re: Recca

Post by poodude »

Yes, referring to recca. I couldn't stomach paying $500+ for a loose cart. :cry:
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: Recca

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Hadn't occurred to me before, but after reading Pegboy's post and thinking it over, Super Aleste on wild/lunatic difficulty with the charge laser exclusively is pretty much a thorughly refined Recca 2. Only thing it lacks being the memorably over the top speed of enemy movements and background/sprite seizures.
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.
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pegboy
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Re: Recca

Post by pegboy »

Squire Grooktook wrote:Hadn't occurred to me before, but after reading Pegboy's post and thinking it over, Super Aleste on wild/lunatic difficulty with the charge laser exclusively is pretty much a thorughly refined Recca 2. Only thing it lacks being the memorably over the top speed of enemy movements and background/sprite seizures.
Super aleste actually came out before recca so it cant be recca 2 lol.
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: Recca

Post by Squire Grooktook »

I don't think YGW is bound by linear space time, so it probably still came first.
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.
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