From Software 'n such

[Squire Grooktook]

Nah, I'd say play it with the dlc first.

The thing about the dlc is that they are basically designed as uber hard optional end-game areas.

The dlc areas in Bloodborne, for instance, are probably harder then everything else in the game with the exception of the final boss. You can access it from nearly the middle of the game, but hoo boy good luck fighting through it early.

None of the weapons you can get are arguably overpowered. Like everything in the Souls series, you have to build your character around them to use optimally, and even then they're generally no stronger than anything else you could wield for similar investment. You could end up being over leveled for later bosses if you choose to do the dlc first, but like I said, good luck with that. Especially in Bloodborne.

I haven't played DS2 so I'm speakling purely from experience in Bloodborne and DS1.

[Volteccer_Jack]

The DLC in all the games is designed for endgame or New Game+ characters, so the idea that the stuff you get in them would trivialize the normal game seems a bit silly.

[Immryr]

yeah, in bloodborne in particular if you can beat the first boss in the dlc at a low level it won't matter if you get a slightly stronger weapon, you will smash the game either way. i don't actually agree that the weapons in the dlc of these games trivialise the main game anyway. to use bloodborn as an example again, the saw cleaver, which is one of the three weapons you get to choose from at the start, is probably the strongest weapon in the game.

is no one else excited they're working on a new armored core? or a new ip which is supposedly weird? i'm excited.

[Blinge]

Yeah I'm excited to see what the "weird" game is. I hope Miyazaki has a decent level of involvement in these titles too.

A new Armored Core could be great but I've yet to go back and complete any of the old ones.. I started FA but stopped for some reason.
Can someone remind me which revision/patch I should be playing for FA? If not i'll go digging, just cant remember which thread it was in, might be this one..
[Edit: gamefaqs says it's "Regulation 1.2"]

I'd hope the new AC has some innovation and doesn't stick to the series' formula.
But I dont know the series well enough to know if that statement fits.

[KAI]

"weird" game

Tenchu 5? with VR support?

btw, anyone else into Tenchu? I've been playing Senran (Z) and loved it almost inmediately. The controls and level design are so damn good, it's one of the best games on this series imo.

[Immryr]

i've only played the ps1 games, but i liked those a lot. i'll have to look into the more modern ones. i'm sure tenchu z should be dirt cheap.

[evil_ash_xero]

Weird?

Maybe we'll get a sequel to Metal Wolf Chaos, with Prez Obama. And they could change the whole "VS the VP", and have it be Trump instead. That would be fun.

[qmish]

Would love me some EverGrace, mostly because music.

[zinger]

So what do people think of the Otogi games? I really tried to like the first one since I had heard great things about it, and while some scenes are absolutely stunning as far as aesthetics go, overall the game just felt clunky and shallow to me. Am I missing something here?

[Blinge]

Just finished King's Field 3.

Man, what an awesome trilogy. The 3rd title ties in to the other two and provides an epic conclusion.
(I'm aware there's a fourth)

I found the story of this one more prevalent and enjoyable. You're basically Ostrava in this game
(The intro narrative is hilariously bad however..and the ending's is worse)

KF3 Is set in the whole kingdom of Verdite. Everyone's favourite HG101 points out that the larger world comes at the cost of the tighter interconnected level design of #2.

I'd agree that this is a problem in the early game; as a result it felt like a much slower start compared to 1&2 but once I got some momentum and warp points the game got much better, climactic even.

Difficulty-wise I had the same problem i had with the others; the beginning is usually the hardest part of the game, and by the end even without grinding you're unstoppable. Then again, I think I did whole optional dungeons in the process of getting muh killer gear. I could've switched to weaker stuff to keep the challenge up, but I went through some shit for that gear man!

There were some exceptions, like enemies sat in lava pools shelling you with massive AoE attacks. Arrows didn't work very well so I had to remove the source of the lava - an enemy in the same room, all while under fire.
shmupsfarm approved pressure?

Anyway enough fumbling attempts to talk about game design; I loved the experience and look forward to starting KFIV.

[Ed Oscuro]

Kuon 2? :p

Tenchu 5? Ehh...after that strange last-minute story change in the PSP one, I dunno...I played through the PSP one, it didn't feel much like a real Tenchu to me. Not totally bad or anything though. I've been wanting to get the 360 one for years, despite knowing it doesn't really feature the normal leads.

I could see that Otogi might not satisfy everyone, and I think maybe it helps if you're easily suckered into playing for the 100% mindset. There are some areas that feel legitimately great to me, in any case. I also like the sequel a great deal, and perhaps that's a more refined game in some ways, especially with the choice of different characters opening up things a bit. But at the end of the day you have to be able to appreciate the Japanese take on a sandbox of destruction.

TBH, I was thinking recently about the idea of replaying Shadow Tower Abyss and it didn't seem so appealing, so I dunno. Sometimes it's hard to appreciate some of their games from a distance, but then take on a different perspective and they seem good.

[zinger]

Thanks for your input Ed. I found this thread on another forum by the way, and I have to say the case he is making is somewhat convincing, like I can almost feel the enjoyment he has had with the game (from the mid-air combat, and the way you can interact with your environment during boss fights), so I will probably give it some more time when I have my Xbox hooked up again:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=855526

For those Gaffers who don't know, Otogi: Myth Of Demons and Otogi: Immortal Warriors are a pair of hack-and-slash games that were exclusive to the OG Xbox, published by Sega and developed by FROM Software. They got great reviews when they came out, but sadly never found an audience. The first game sold under 100,000 IIRC, and the second game even less. It's a huge shame, because while they never had the appeal of other games in the genre like Ninja Gaiden or DMC, both games brought their own ideas to the hack-and-slash genre, ideas that have yet to be capitalised on elsewhere.

Firstly, it's worth pointing out to the hardcore Frameraters out there: The Otogi games are not 60fps. If you demand the One True Framerate for your silky smooth input response times, then these games are perhaps not for you. Both run at 30fps, and Immortal Warriors in particular is prone to stuttering during some of the more crazy sections of the game.

But fear thee not! Because aside from framerate, these games both did other things really, really well. In many ways, they've yet to be matched in certain areas by other games in the genre. First and foremost, the air combat. Unlike Devil May Cry, air combat isn't achieved by exploiting the jump and combo mechanics, it's a legitimate part of the game that is a core part of the gameplay design. Your character, Raikoh, can double jump in the air, then stay airborne for pretty much as long as you please. Even better, you can stage entire battles and swordfights in the air. You know those cool fights you get in Wuxia films where the fighters jump around the air like they weigh nothing? Despite being based in Japanese folklore, as opposed to Chinese, the Otogi games are the closest any game I can think of has come to nailing that weightless feel. An entire level in the second game revolves around flying between a fleet of skyborne airships, destroying them then flying to the next.

Which leads me to the next thing the games do really well: destructible environments. Not just a little destructible. Pretty much every man made object in both games can be destroyed, either with your weapons, or by knocking enemies flying into them. Again, this is something that forms a core part of the design: you get graded on how much stuff you destroy, and destroying enough scenery nets you hidden rewards. But beyond that, there is nothing as fun as juggling a demon fifty feet into the air, then sending him flying earthbound with a downward slash and watching him turn a small shrine into a debris filled crater.

Then there are the bosses. Some of them are of the typical giant monster variety, and can be a load of fun to beat, but the best boss fights are the one on one duels. Remember how good the 1v1 boss fights were in Revengeance? Take that same idea, then instead of taking place in small boxed-in fighting arenas, imagine those boss fights taking place over large sandboxes where you and the boss are free to move around as you wish. The second game in particular has a bonus boss fight against a demon that takes place in a giant harbour. You can literally send him flying across the harbour, destroying bridges and boats in his wake, then come at him from any angle you like. A boss fight against the same dude in the first game takes place in a moonlit winter bamboo thicket, and if you want you can battle him on the ice of a frozen river before smashing him underwater. No other hack-and-slash game I can think of offers as much freedom when it comes to the 1v1 boss fights. Instead of being locked into a small room and watching for the same patters over and over, you fight across entire levels, and rather than watching for repeating patterns, you're battling them as you would any other enemy. Attacking, dodging, re-positioning.

One of the boss fights in the first game takes place in a flying Japanese garden hovering over a purple star as it starts to go supernova. And you can take the fight with the boss anywhere in that garden you please.

Incidentally, the games don't have a standard dodge move. Instead, your character turns into a gust of wind, complete with cherry tree petals.

The rest of his post is about how amazing the atmosphere in Otogi is, but that's a given.

[Necronopticous]

So I went into Ashes of Ariandel with sort of low expectations because I have seen a lot of negative early impressions but I'm not really sure what people were expecting because it feels like some of the most interesting and nuanced content in the game/series. Anyone else played/playing it yet?

[Immryr]

i'm up to what i presume is the first boss, not sure if i missed one or if the path branches or w/e and i'm loving it so far. the level design is really interesting, doesn't feel as predictable with it's short cuts as some of the main game and most of bloodborne. lots of different combat situations.

[ryu]

Don't have much time to play so I'm only at the bonfire right after the rotten village. The expansion is fine, but definitely pales in comparison to previous post-release contents which all had something outstanding to them. This one's so far been a mostly empty area with nothing much to it. Tension generated by tough enemies is a plus, but aside from that there's really nothing to it that makes me go 'wow' just yet.

[Obscura]

I thought it was pretty disappointing TBH (I've finished all of it other than the boss). Most of it is just a big field dotted with enemies, and then there's a township that has some random bird-zombies that barely do anything. The boss is fucking ridiculously hard; five hours of attempts, and I haven't even come close on the third form yet.

[jepjepjep]

I thought it was really great. It's a bit short compared to the BB DLC, but the quality was really high. I can't wait to see what they have in store for DLC#2.

Spoiler

The snow area was really fun to explore. Once the avalanche triggers and you know you can't go back to the bonfire, it changed the tone of the area for me. I thought that was a nice touch. The wolf mechanic was interesting.

All-in-all, I really was impressed with the new enemies. I thought between the wolves, the millwood knights, and the crow knights, Fromsoft had some really good ideas. The rotted theme reminded me a lot of bloodborne.

The Vilhelm NPC fight I thought was a little underwhelming, but the pyromancer NPC fight was great. I think he was the most difficult invader NPC in all of DS3.

I ended up fighting Freide before the wolf boss, but that fight was epic! It's a huge difficulty spike, but I'm glad they made it difficult. It was a satisfying conclusion.

[Obscura]

Freide is just retarded, though. Basically, the fight boils down to "summon the NPC phantom or have upgraded a melee weapon with good reach, or you're fucked." And soloing the second form is, as best I can tell, a literal die-roll, since the ice explodes fast enough that if you're attacking Ariandel, you won't have enough time for your attack animation to finish and then escape the ice, unless you're using a weapon too small for the third form.

Buff the boss like crazy if the host summons human players, but don't apply any buffs at all if the host summons just the NPC phantom -- nice job, From! Much balance, very design, wow!

[Immryr]

you're right obscura, the second form CANNOT BE DONE without summoning. it's simply not possible....

Spoiler

i mean the big lumbering dude doesn't just keep going in straight lines once he starts his attack or anything. seriously though you can more or less ignore the big dude in phase two. wait till he starts coming at you, dive past him then hit scythe girl. it's not overly hard. the main difficulty of the fight is just not fucking up throughout the mamoth length it. for what it's worth i did it in NG+ using the dark sword at level 85, just cause that was the only save file i had which was towards the end of one cycle and could start the dlc right away.

overall i thought the dlc was great, but definitely too short.

[jepjepjep]

Freire is hard, but not impossible. there are already SL1 and NG+7 fist-only runs on YouTube of that bossfight.

[Obscura]

I never said the second form was impossible to solo (I did it numerous times before dying on the third form); I said it was a die roll. Friede can just totally fuck you over while you attack the big guy, and there isn't shit you can do about it other than hope her spell timing is amenable to you.

Going after scythe girl like you recommend drags the fight out forever with her dodging and higher resistances. Rolling the dice actually gets you to the third form more often when viewed through the lens of 'how many times can I get there per unit of time'.

[jepjepjep]

I don't think that boss' difficulty is out of line when compared to other souls bosses. I thought Manus was incredibly difficult at first. Same with German. The three phases makes it longer, but it's such a cool moment when the third phase begins for the first time.

[Necronopticous]

I said it was a die roll. Friede can just totally fuck you over while you attack the big guy, and there isn't shit you can do about it other than hope her spell timing is amenable to you..

Eh, people said similar of Ornstein & Smough early on, and, well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgvrK5Sn5WQ

[Obscura]

It took him two nights of attempts to get that, and that's with abusing the pillars in the room (there aren't blockers like that in the Friede fight, and even if there were, Friede's attacks can phase right through solid objects). It's not like it's something that can be done consistently, so that video does nothing to dispell the notion that O&S has elements of luck if fought at low levels. And even less to dispell that notion about Friede's second phase, where both parts have AoE attacks, and the smaller one ignores collision detection from the larger one (so she can do dash-attacks right through him, or even sit inside of him and be invisible).

[ryu]

It took him two nights of attempts to get that

That's necro himself playing in that video.

Good job btw. I've attempted a thief playthrough earlier this year, but cancelled it when I failed procuring Priscilla's tail weapon.

Anyways, I beat the new DLC's main boss last night. My opinion hasn't changed that the DLC is vastly inferior to previous expansions in the series, but it's still good and people who complain are pretty much just nitpicking. Will definitely play it again soon with another character. The boss fight was really good, but didn't excite me a lot. Maybe the series has grown on me?

[Blinge]

AC fans, I need your expertise.

I've been playing Armored Core For Answer with a mech-lover buddy over the past couple of months, passing the controller and trying to come up with tactics for each mission we reached.
Man, that game is brutal. We reached the end by just finding ways to cheese each mission, turned out very unsatisfying.
I've come away knowing I suck at the game, never got gud.. I'm not sure how to either, feels like I've missed something.

Maybe because we didn't know how to build a decent mech?

The mission that gave us so much trouble was Destroy Anti-Satellite Cannons.
That fucking NEXT with the beastly weapons and insane amounts of health (i think??) rekt us.
Our usual set up was gatling guns and high act missiles, spam missiles while dodging and holding the gat button down. Didn't seem to work on this guy, especially as getting tagged by his torus cannon took 20k/ quarter of our health.

looked at an faq, it said "just use kojima missiles." Shop doesn't have any. did he mean kojima cannon?

Watched a video of someone else, they just seemed to fly indefinitely whereas we always run out of "stamina" and clunk back to the floor. https://youtu.be/km942FJ_CoQ

Eventually we just tried the other mission which progressed the story, bypassing the tough one.

Final mission - Defend Arteria Cranium was insane, couldn't get away from the blade NEXT and usually insta rekt, except when matey tried and managed to pick off Shanky McShankerson, and spent the rest of the fight running away while the allied mech finished the other off..

Options in front of me:
-Keep playing, load the save on that white whale of a mission, back to the drawing board.. and finally beat it.
So git gud, while probably not having fun.
-Try an older game in the series
-Spend my precious git gud time elsewhere like in a platinum game.

[Bananamatic]

is ACFA that hard?
I've finished 5, Verdict Day all S ranks/hardcore mode and 4 hard mode, none were super hard and apparently FA is even easier

Watched a video of someone else, they just seemed to fly indefinitely whereas we always run out of "stamina" and clunk back to the floor.

if it's anything like AC4 (haven't played FA and it's apparently basically just a way faster expansion to 4 and all about the speed and mobility) permaflight is really good to have and makes everything much easier
1) equip lower EN consumption boosters
2) equip lower EN consumption parts
3) equip a higher EN output generator

just go as low as you can, then keep adding more armor/faster boosters and test stuff out until you hit the balance between EN consumption/speed/armor you want
AC in general (and especially in singleplayer) is probably more about the build than your own piloting skill, just keep screwing around until you find something that works for the particular mission

[Blinge]

Alright cheers bananaman, i'll give it a go. Should probably stop forgetting what the abbreviations mean too.
Still dont know what KP is.

I don't know if the game's toughness is the problem or if i'm just terrible at it.
The controls do seem to suck ballz, feel like i'm fighting the camera half the time.
I've been using default controls, would you recommend a different type?
I realise this might not be applicable in 4/verdict day.

Do you mess with stabilisers?

[Bananamatic]

switch to something that maps both mobility and both arm weapons to shoulder buttons/triggers so you can shoot, aim and move at the same time easily, that goes for every AC
save the face buttons for stuff like shoulder weapons/overboost

the camera almost entirely manual in every AC game I think, should have no issues there

KP should be kojima particles, the stuff that generates the barrier around the AC, there should be parameters like how much damage it reduces/how fast it regenerates etc.

only really used stabilizers in 4 to stabilize the left/right side which you pretty much always want equalized, front/rear should be more of a personal preference thing

[Immryr]

I definitely found ac:fa pretty tricky when I played it, but I don't remember anything being too brutal or getting super stuck on any particular mission. Building your ac is definitely the most important part, and you will have to change your load out depending on the mission. I think I often went with one of the super powerful punch weapons when you had to just blow something huge up. I don't remember thinking the controls sucked.

I've been meaning to play through 4 and FA again for ages now, maybe I'll do that after Christmas.


-edit- middle of the night addition: i dunno if you have been playing through the arena, but i found that very helpful for improving and testing out different set ups. also dual rifle set ups like the one in the video you linked are a little boring, but super strong in a lot of missions.