Questions that do not deserve a thread

[Dvnrm1]

When playing on an actual Wii (not Wii U) a vast majority of the 16 and 8-bit games are 240p. I'm pretty sure only a few early TG16 releases are presented in forced 480i.

It just seems like there's a lot of contradictory information out there. If what you say is true, then that means RetroRGB's article is vastly incorrect. If it were only a small number of TG16 games that required manually switching to 240p, surely that detail would be mentioned. But it clearly treats the issue as if 240p is a possible option for only some games, short of hacking.

The reason I need to know this information for sure is because it will play an important role in helping me decide on external hardware options.

[Dvnrm1]

Also, if your Wii is set to output 480p they'll be 480p.

Ok this is very important. Perhaps I should have been clearer before. Providing that you have everything you need to output at 480p, and provided the Wii is set to 480p mode, Wii VC games are displayed at 480p and not 240p or 480i?

Edit: The hardware in question involves line doubling. Thus, if Wii VC games already output at 480p, I have no use for one with this console.

[Einzelherz]

Also, if your Wii is set to output 480p they'll be 480p.

Ok this is very important. Perhaps I should have been clearer before. Providing that you have everything you need to output at 480p, and provided the Wii is set to 480p mode, Wii VC games are displayed at 480p and not 240p or 480i?

Edit: The hardware in question involves line doubling. Thus, if Wii VC games already output at 480p, I have no use for one with this console.

There are some exceptions, notably the pre NES systems and arcade ports. They seem to always be 480i, but they generally have a type of UI overlay, too.

[bobrocks95]

Are AV receivers with 2 HDMI outputs worth looking into, or should I just get an HDMI splitter and forget about it?

I of course like the appeal of not adding another box to the busy-enough setup, but most dual-HDMI output receivers seem to be intended for another audio setup in another room.

[ZellSF]

Are AV receivers with 2 HDMI outputs worth looking into, or should I just get an HDMI splitter and forget about it?

I of course like the appeal of not adding another box to the busy-enough setup, but most dual-HDMI output receivers seem to be intended for another audio setup in another room.

Do you have or plan to have a 4K/HDR setup?

[Ikaruga11]

Whoa guys, you are really misinformed on Wii/240p.

When playing on an actual Wii (not Wii U) a vast majority of the 16 and 8-bit games are 240p. I'm pretty sure only a few early TG16 releases are presented in forced 480i.

You can switch it to play everything in 480i, but it can be switched to back to play (almost) everything in 240p. You only need to enter the code once

Thanks for clearing that up, BazookaBen. So I only need to enter the code once and it'll stay activated for ALL 240p-compatible games?

Also, if your Wii is set to output 480p they'll be 480p.

So you're saying that other platforms on the Wii Virtual Console besides the N64 can also render in 480p? I thought only N64 games were capable of rendering in 480p, and everything else was de-interlaced or line-doubled by the Wii or TV/Monitor/external scaler.

[Einzelherz]

I could be wrong since I haven't messed with the VC in a while. It's easy enough to test though.

[bobrocks95]

Are AV receivers with 2 HDMI outputs worth looking into, or should I just get an HDMI splitter and forget about it?

I of course like the appeal of not adding another box to the busy-enough setup, but most dual-HDMI output receivers seem to be intended for another audio setup in another room.

Do you have or plan to have a 4K/HDR setup?

Not any time in the near future. I'm fine with not having 4K/HDR support built-in if that's what you're getting at, I'd just buy another receiver sometime later when I needed those features. Unless HDMI splitting can cause troubles with that?

[ZellSF]

Are AV receivers with 2 HDMI outputs worth looking into, or should I just get an HDMI splitter and forget about it?

I of course like the appeal of not adding another box to the busy-enough setup, but most dual-HDMI output receivers seem to be intended for another audio setup in another room.

Do you have or plan to have a 4K/HDR setup?

Not any time in the near future. I'm fine with not having 4K/HDR support built-in if that's what you're getting at, I'd just buy another receiver sometime later when I needed those features. Unless HDMI splitting can cause troubles with that?

No it's just that cheap HDMI splitters don't support the HDCP needed for 4K/HDR.

I'd definitely go with the cheap splitters myself. That adds a 10cm cable (3$) and a small 5x5x1cm box (6.5$). Seems very space efficient and cheap to me compared to replacing an AVR.

Plus those cheap splitters remove HDCP, so that's also a non-worry (unless of course it's the 4K/HDR variant of HDCP).

And I mean, it's 10$, it's pretty cheap to try if it's an adequate solution.

[Dvnrm1]

I could be wrong since I haven't messed with the VC in a while. It's easy enough to test though.

Maybe if you're someone who knows how. I'm not one of those people unfortunately.

[bobrocks95]

No it's just that cheap HDMI splitters don't support the HDCP needed for 4K/HDR.

I'd definitely go with the cheap splitters myself. That adds a 10cm cable (3$) and a small 5x5x1cm box (6.5$). Seems very space efficient and cheap to me compared to replacing an AVR.

Plus those cheap splitters remove HDCP, so that's also a non-worry (unless of course it's the 4K/HDR variant of HDCP).

And I mean, it's 10$, it's pretty cheap to try if it's an adequate solution.

The thing is I need to replace my receiver anyway. Mine doesn't even have HDMI and is a very cheap old model. So I guess what I should have asked is are receivers with 2 outputs necessarily more expensive, and can you use them to drive 2 displays with the same set of speakers, or are they exclusively meant for another room with its own speakers?

[Einzelherz]

I could be wrong since I haven't messed with the VC in a while. It's easy enough to test though.

Maybe if you're someone who knows how. I'm not one of those people unfortunately.

If you have a set that's capable of telling you the signal type (the info button on my panasonic hdtv does) and Wii component cables, set the Wii to progressive scan in its settings menu and then load up a VC title.

[Dvnrm1]

If you have a set that's capable of telling you the signal type (the info button on my panasonic hdtv does) and Wii component cables, set the Wii to progressive scan in its settings menu and then load up a VC title.

I've always assumed that only relays the highest possible resolution given the cables and hardware used. I'm pretty sure whenever I've played N64 via composite it's always said "480i" in the top corner when info is displayed, which would make sense considering 480i is the highest resolution composite is capable of.

[Dvnrm1]

Just tested multiple games on my N64 for confirmation and it does indeed say 480i instead of 240p, which I know isn't right.

[Einzelherz]

240p isn't a standard. It is a timing trick that travels on a 480i signal (or something like that). My TV says the same for a 240p signal.

Send it a progressive video signal over Wii component cables. It should say 480p.

[Dvnrm1]

So are you saying that if I run a VC game over component cables with the Wii in 480p mode, if it's still presented in 240p it should say "480i" in the corner instead of "480p"?

And if it does say 480i, is there a way to know if it's actually 480i or just 240p? RetroRGB's article indicated that 240p is something you have to manually enable, and that it's not even available for a lot of games. This is just an important distinction for hardware like scandoublers.

[Einzelherz]

If it says 480p it's 480p. If it says 480i it could be either. You do have to manually enable 240p, and at least in the case of my panasonic, 240p creates a curved distortion at the top of the screen.

If your tv is saying 480i, it's likely interlacing the 240P signal anyway, which would cause tearing. That's what mine does.

[Mantis128]

So you know how the Nintoaster is pretty much made by grabbing all the innards of a NES and putting them in the shell of a toaster? Has anyone ever tried getting the shell of a front loader NES putting Famicom parts in and cutting a hole in the bottom for the Disk System? Pretty much a working Famicom that looks like the FL NES.

[Guspaz]

You'd need to design something similar to the Blinking Light Win to make the cartridge slot work, albeit with the cartridge slot less recessed. And you'd need to desolder the cartridge slot and secure it elsewhere, connected via a ribbon cable or something.

But, why would you want to do all that? You can just mod the NES to support expansion audio, and use a famicom cartridge adapter. Heck, you don't even have to mod the NES, there are boards you can plug into the expansion socket on the bottom that add expansion audio and a famicom expansion port.

All you need to run the FDS is a cartridge adapter long enough to stick out the front of the system.

[Fudoh]

what the height of the panel (sticks/buttons) on japanese cabs like the Egret2 or Astro City (measured from the floor) ?

[Xyga]

65,5 cm for an Astro City, according to some: http://burogu.makotoworkshop.org/public ... oVecto.png

[Mantis128]

But, why would you want to do all that?

To see if it can be done.

[BazookaBen]

RetroRGB's article indicated that 240p is something you have to manually enable, and that it's not even available for a lot of games.

RetroRGB is wrong, he basically has it backwards. 240p is default for 99% of 16-bit and 8-bit VC games. It's only after you enter the 480i code that they go to 480i. But that can be reversed again by doing the 240p code (and Nintendo actually doesn't call it 240p, they call it "double strike" or something, since the video lines are displayed on the same line as the previous frame, instead of interlaced).

And I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience with 15khz CRT's, because the difference between 240p and 480i is obvious on them. On digital flat panel TV's, you're at the mercy of whatever video processor Samsung, Panasonic, LG, etc, decided to use. They can all look totally different, and they definitely don't look like the image given by a CRT.

[Ikaruga11]

Do certain hardware revisions of the N64 have better performance (i.e. less framerate drops) than others?

[Dvnrm1]

RetroRGB's article indicated that 240p is something you have to manually enable, and that it's not even available for a lot of games.

RetroRGB is wrong, he basically has it backwards. 240p is default for 99% of 16-bit and 8-bit VC games. It's only after you enter the 480i code that they go to 480i. But that can be reversed again by doing the 240p code (and Nintendo actually doesn't call it 240p, they call it "double strike" or something, since the video lines are displayed on the same line as the previous frame, instead of interlaced).

And I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience with 15khz CRT's, because the difference between 240p and 480i is obvious on them. On digital flat panel TV's, you're at the mercy of whatever video processor Samsung, Panasonic, LG, etc, decided to use. They can all look totally different, and they definitely don't look like the image given by a CRT.

So even if I'm using component cables and have the Wii set to 480p mode, the VC games are still being output at 240p? That's really all I care about because if so, getting a line doubler will go a lot further. If they're output at 480p I was going to go another route.

And no, I don't have much experience with 15khz CRTs because you can hardly count my experience as a child when I didn't even notice or care about such things. Not that it matters anyway; my current display is a 37 inch LCD and 240p/480i are pretty indistinguishable. At least to me.

[Einzelherz]

ok, so I did some checking on this now that I have time. I only checked three games, all TG16, since that's all I've got installed from the VC. I also compared one to its rom being played in WiiMednafen.

Wii set to 480p (progressive scan in the Wii settings).
Castlevania - Rondo of blood: 480p output. Game is clear. I know also that this game works in 240p when you input the code.
Neutopia: 480p output. Game is blurry. This game does not switch to 240p. In WiiMednafen the game is clear (both at 480p and 240p). This suggests to me that the emulator attached to the VC version has a 480i blur filter.
Neutopia II: 480p output. Game is blurry. I assume the same filter as above since it too cannot be set to 240p.

So from my minuscule testing, if the Wii is set to 480p it'll output 480p in virtual console. Is there a title in particular you'd like me to check?

Also, fwiw, NES games in the VC are a touch darker.

[Ikaruga11]

Is there a title in particular you'd like me to check?

Yes. Can you see what games support 240p, 480i and 480p?

Nintendo Entertainment System:

Spoiler

Balloon Fight
Blaster Master
Bubble Bobble
Castlevania
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong 3
Donkey Kong Jr.
Excitebike
Final Fantasy
Ghosts 'n Goblins
Gradius
Ice Climber
Kid Icarus
Kirby's Adventure
Life Force
Mario Bros.
Mega Man
Mega Man 2
Mega Man 3
Mega Man 4
Mega Man 5
Metroid
Milon's Secret Castle
Ninja Gaiden
Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos
Ninja Gaiden III: The Ancient Ship of Doom
StarTropics
Super C
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels
The Legend of Zelda
Wario's Woods
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II

Super Nintendo Entertainment System:

Spoiler

Breath of Fire II
Chrono Trigger
Contra III: The Alien Wars
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy Kong's Quest
Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble
DoReMi Fantasy: Milon's DokiDoki Adventure
F-Zero
Final Fantasy II
Final Fantasy III
Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest
Gradius III
Harvest Moon
Kirby Super Star
Kirby's Dream Land 3
Mega Man X
Mega Man X2
Secret of Mana
Super Castlevania IV
Super Ghouls n' Ghosts
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Super Mario World
Super Metroid
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Sega Genesis:

Spoiler

Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle
Alien Soldier
Beyond Oasis
Comix Zone
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
Dynamite Headdy
Earthworm Jim
Earthworm Jim 2
Ecco Jr.
Ecco the Dolphin
Ecco: The Tides of Time
Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Gunstar Heroes
Kid Chameleon
Landstalker
Light Crusader
Monster World IV
Phantasy Star II
Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom
Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millennium
Pulseman
Puyo Puyo 2
Ristar
Sonic & Knuckles
Sonic 3D Blast
Sonic Spinball
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Sonic the Hedgehog 3
Sword of Vermilion
Wonder Boy III: Monster Lair
Wonder Boy in Monster World

Sega Master System:

Spoiler

Alex Kidd in Miracle World
Alex Kidd in Shinobi World
Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars
Phantasy Star
Sonic Chaos
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Wonder Boy
Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap
Wonder Boy in Monster Land

TurboGrafx-16/TurboGrafx-CD:

Spoiler

Bomberman '93
Bomberman '94
Castlevania: Rondo of Blood (240p | 480p)
Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou
Monster Lair

Neo Geo

Spoiler

Metal Slug
Metal Slug 2
Metal Slug 3
Metal Slug 4
Metal Slug X

Virtual Console Arcade

Spoiler

Ghosts 'n Goblins
Ninja Gaiden
Wonder Boy in Monster Land

[Dvnrm1]

ok, so I did some checking on this now that I have time. I only checked three games, all TG16, since that's all I've got installed from the VC. I also compared one to its rom being played in WiiMednafen.

Wii set to 480p (progressive scan in the Wii settings).
Castlevania - Rondo of blood: 480p output. Game is clear. I know also that this game works in 240p when you input the code.
Neutopia: 480p output. Game is blurry. This game does not switch to 240p. In WiiMednafen the game is clear (both at 480p and 240p). This suggests to me that the emulator attached to the VC version has a 480i blur filter.
Neutopia II: 480p output. Game is blurry. I assume the same filter as above since it too cannot be set to 240p.

So from my minuscule testing, if the Wii is set to 480p it'll output 480p in virtual console. Is there a title in particular you'd like me to check?

Also, fwiw, NES games in the VC are a touch darker.

Well as BazookaBen stated earlier, it's supposedly only a few titles from TG16 that are presented in forced 480i, so your results would make sense. According to him, everything else is already 240p. I have yet to learn whether they are 480p with 480p mode enabled or whether they remain 240p regardless, which is really the most important factor for me.

I only have a few SNES titles downloaded, so those are the ones I care about for now. They are LoZ: A Link to the Past, Final Fantasy II and III (really IV and VI), Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Donkey Kong Country.

[BazookaBen]

So even if I'm using component cables and have the Wii set to 480p mode, the VC games are still being output at 240p? That's really all I care about because if so, getting a line doubler will go a lot further. If they're output at 480p I was going to go another route.

No, in 480p mode every VC game is output in 480p. It's line-doubled 480p for most games, but for N64 games (which are mostly 3D) they are actually running at 480p.

[Einzelherz]

ok, so I did some checking on this now that I have time. I only checked three games, all TG16, since that's all I've got installed from the VC. I also compared one to its rom being played in WiiMednafen.

Wii set to 480p (progressive scan in the Wii settings).
Castlevania - Rondo of blood: 480p output. Game is clear. I know also that this game works in 240p when you input the code.
Neutopia: 480p output. Game is blurry. This game does not switch to 240p. In WiiMednafen the game is clear (both at 480p and 240p). This suggests to me that the emulator attached to the VC version has a 480i blur filter.
Neutopia II: 480p output. Game is blurry. I assume the same filter as above since it too cannot be set to 240p.

So from my minuscule testing, if the Wii is set to 480p it'll output 480p in virtual console. Is there a title in particular you'd like me to check?

Also, fwiw, NES games in the VC are a touch darker.

Well as BazookaBen stated earlier, it's supposedly only a few titles from TG16 that are presented in forced 480i, so your results would make sense. According to him, everything else is already 240p. I have yet to learn whether they are 480p with 480p mode enabled or whether they remain 240p regardless, which is really the most important factor for me.

I only have a few SNES titles downloaded, so those are the ones I care about for now. They are LoZ: A Link to the Past, Final Fantasy II and III (really IV and VI), Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, and Donkey Kong Country.

Ok, if you have them already, why haven't you set the Wii to 480p and checked that they're outputting at 480p like they should be?

General light: first they all do 480i/p. Second, I'm not going through every game made to see if they can be 240p.

I personally don't bother with VC except for N64 and I'm bummed that it doesn't have a 240p option.