Gamecube video queries

[Shozuki]

When I previously had my gamecube setup I had an NTSC system to a BVM via a modded RGB SCART.

Now this stuff seems to have become quite expensive and hard to get so I'm relatively happy using a Wii for my Gamecube needs these days...

Question is how much worse is the image. Would it massively improve my experience on BVM to go back to having a gamecube?

Also as there seems to be an SD card solution to force video modes and what not would it be suitable to just use a PAL gamecube? Seems to be the cheapest RGB option for the system these days?

Thank you.

[bobrocks95]

Is it a 480p capable BVM? On a 480i set I doubt you could see the difference between the two really.

[Shozuki]

Is it a 480p capable BVM? On a 480i set I doubt you could see the difference between the two really.

Yup, 480p capable BVM. I'll be honest I love the convenience of hard drive when using the Wii... I guess I'm more thinking of the GBA Player, as I don't really game on handholds anymore but want it to look the best it can...

[bobrocks95]

If you want the Gameboy Player it definitely makes sense to get a Gamecube. At this point, the analog version of GC-Video might be cheaper than importing a PAL Gamecube, but I'm not sure. You also get 480p support, so I'd say that pushes it in GCVideo's favor.

[Guspaz]

You can import a PAL cube for a little less than the GCVideo ($5-10 USD less), and installing the PAL motherboard in your NTSC cube requires little more than a screwdriver, so it's a bit more user friendly to install.

On the other hand, the gcvideo provides 480p output, while the PAL cube will max out at 240p/480i. On a CRT, for gameboy content that's already sub-240p, maybe 240p is enough for you.

[Shozuki]

Thanks guys. I probably should have mentioned I'm already in the UK.

When I had my previous collection it was all NTSC based, now I'm starting again...

But it sounds like a PAL gamecube and RGB Scart will be suit me fine then. Given there seems to be movement on the homebrew scene for forcing NTSC video or even 480p should I luck out on a reasonably priced GC component cable it'll still work in the PAL system regardless...

[Guspaz]

If you put a XenoGC in a PAL cube, then NTSC games should work fine. Make sure your display supports both PAL and NTSC, though, because the PAL cube will boot the system menu in PAL, and then switch to NTSC when the game loads. That part should be automatic, from my experience: no homebrew required.

I imported my PAL cube from the UK, IIRC it cost me around 13 GBP before shipping. It wasn't in the greatest cosmetic condition, but since I was just planning to pull the motherboard to put in my chipped NTSC cube, that wasn't a big deal.

Since you're already in the UK, the PAL cube will be very cheap and easy to get, and then when you want to move to 480p, you should probably just get a gcvideo installed: it'll be much cheaper than the component cables, especially if you've got the skill to install it yourself.

[Shozuki]

I'm now considering a Xeno GC chip on a PAL system.

Thus it'd be multi region, SD card would be supported etc.

Question is now, if you run an NTSC game in a PAL system via an RGB Scart - will it work?? Or would NTSC games need either component or composite (eww!)

Also the system menu would boot in PAL mode, again if you used an NTSC game and held b on boot up wold you still get the 480p prompt? (Obviously only on supported games)

[Guspaz]

The video outputs are independent of the motherboard region, so NTSC games on PAL are subject to the same restrictions as the video outputs on the physical motherboard. To be honest, I haven't tried composite video out of my PAL motherboard, because I don't have PAL composite cables. But I do have PAL RGB cables for my PAL cube board, and that works fine with NTSC games.

I don't have the official component cables, so I can't comment on how 480p works in this scenario.

One thing to note is that the horizontal offset between NTSC and PAL does seem to be quite a bit different. This is a setting in the gamecube system menu: on the normal setting, PAL is centered on my PVM, but NTSC games are shifted to the right. When I adjust the setting, PAL games are shifted to the left, but NTSC is centered.

Since I use the cube only for GBI (beyond some testing with a burnt copy of Windwaker and a retail NTSC disc I picked up on the cheap), I picked the setting that works best for that, but if you're actually swapping back and forth between NTSC and PAL, you may need to adjust that each time.

[Shozuki]

Thanks for your help.

In honesty 99.99% of games I'd play would be NTSC anyway, using a PAL system is really just a cheaper alternative to getting RGB, especially when you consider what is required to get RGB from an NTSC machine.

I'm also assuming I could set separate channels on my BVM to compensate for the offset worst case.

Sounds like in theory anyway getting 480p from the system should work fine considering the PAL system has its digital port and the NTSC game would regulate the video options - assuming I'm understanding correctly?

I'm curious though what do you mean putting a PAL mob on your NTSC system??

[Guspaz]

I started out with a stock NTSC cube.

I then installed a XenoGC mod chip in its drive in order to be able to boot GBI.

Then I ordered a PAL cube from the UK with a scuffed up case. I took its motherboard and swapped the motherboard in my NTSC cube with the PAL motherboard.

I did this because the PAL motherboard supports RGB output, but the NTSC motherboard does not.

As far as I know, the only region locking is done on the optical drive, not the motherboard, although once I chipped the drive, it shouldn't have mattered one way or another.

[Shozuki]

Ah I see, that's interesting and now makes sense.

In fact it made sense before but I didn't read your posts correctly! Doh!

Double thanks for helping me out when I was failing to read lol!

FYI I've done some digging, and it would appear people successfully used freeloader on a PAL system with an 480p (NTSC) game and using component cable and had no issues selecting and using 480p.

I'm assuming Xeno GC has full compatibility with everything disc based, like other modchips in general for the era. SD card loading sounds relatively decent too, but so long as discs work at the least, I'm very happy.

Definitely seems like the best solution I'd say. It's a shame the component cables are so expensive - but it makes the price easier to stomach given I won't need multiple consoles and multiple cables etc...

Consider me chuffed.


On a side note, how are you finding GBI? I'm guessing it's still not quite as ideal as a GBA itself, but the best way to play it on a bigger screen??

[Guspaz]

The component cables are kind of obsolete now, since they cost ~ $250 USD, and GCVideo (which can do 240p/480i/480p RGB/Component in the analog version, or 480p HDMI in the digital version) costs only $50 USD. You could have somebody mod your console with a GCVideo and still have it cost less than the component cables.

I'm quite pleased with GBI. I've got an AGS-101 that I use most of the time, but when I want to play on the big screen, GBI is what I use. It looks fantastic on my PVM, and lets me use a variety of controllers (I typically use either a wireless SNES controller, or an actual GBA as a controller), and has no lag in the ULL version.

For most people, the LL version is probably the one they should use.

[Shozuki]

Nice, I'm looking forward to delving into the GBA library again.

With regard to GC Video, is it as accurate as an actual component cable though?

Where would you get it??

[Extrems]

As far as I know, the only region locking is done on the optical drive, not the motherboard, although once I chipped the drive, it shouldn't have mattered one way or another.

Wrong, it's in the IPL. XenoGC patches the apploader for this.

To be honest, I haven't tried composite video out of my PAL motherboard, because I don't have PAL composite cables.

It outputs PAL 60.

[Unseen]

With regard to GC Video, is it as accurate as an actual component cable though?

What is your definition of "accurate" in this context?

[Shozuki]

With regard to GC Video, is it as accurate as an actual component cable though?

What is your definition of "accurate" in this context?

I just mean is it as good as the real thing. Even if there's the slightest difference I don't think my OCD could handle it...

Finding this solution with a PAL system means I don't mind spending some cash on the component cable...

[Unseen]

I just mean is it as good as the real thing. Even if there's the slightest difference I don't think my OCD could handle it...

That's still handwaving and not a measureable criterium.

I don't own an original component cable to compare against and I have no plans to change that, but just as an example, GCVideo is likely to produce slightly sharper pixels on high-end CRTs because it uses a video DAC that is much faster than necessary and does not do any filtering on its output (e.g. for EMI reasons) that would slow down the edges of this DAC.

[Shozuki]

I just mean is it as good as the real thing. Even if there's the slightest difference I don't think my OCD could handle it...

That's still handwaving and not a measureable criterium.

I don't own an original component cable to compare against and I have no plans to change that, but just as an example, GCVideo is likely to produce slightly sharper pixels on high-end CRTs because it uses a video DAC that is much faster than necessary and does not do any filtering on its output (e.g. for EMI reasons) that would slow down the edges of this DAC.

Nice. That actually sounds really cool, just got to find somewhere to buy it from.

Do you know where I might find one in the UK?

Thanks

[Harrumph]

just got to find somewhere to buy it from.

http://www.badassconsoles.com/gcvideo-1/

Straight from the source, ships international.

[Pasky]

just got to find somewhere to buy it from.

http://www.badassconsoles.com/gcvideo-1/

Straight from the source, ships international.

ATTENTION: SCALPERS

BadAss Consoles will always have GCVideo available and for sale. Attempts to price gouge will be futile.

EVERYONE PLEASE PASS THE ABOVE MESSAGE ALONG TO ALL SOCIAL MEDIA OUTLETS. GET THE WORD OUT: SCALPERS NEED TO STOP TAKING ADVANTAGE OF OUR COMMUNITY!!

LOL. Charges $50 for this and has a big disclaimer about scalpers.

[Ikaruga11]

I just mean is it as good as the real thing. Even if there's the slightest difference I don't think my OCD could handle it...

That's still handwaving and not a measureable criterium.

I don't own an original component cable to compare against and I have no plans to change that, but just as an example, GCVideo is likely to produce slightly sharper pixels on high-end CRTs because it uses a video DAC that is much faster than necessary and does not do any filtering on its output (e.g. for EMI reasons) that would slow down the edges of this DAC.

So what form of GCVideo should I get if I want to play it on a BVM CRT? Should I get it if I already have the official component cables?

[Guspaz]

If you already have the component cables, there is no reason to install GCVideo unless you specifically need HDMI.

[bobrocks95]

just got to find somewhere to buy it from.

http://www.badassconsoles.com/gcvideo-1/

Straight from the source, ships international.

ATTENTION: SCALPERS

BadAss Consoles will always have GCVideo available and for sale. Attempts to price gouge will be futile.

EVERYONE PLEASE PASS THE ABOVE MESSAGE ALONG TO ALL SOCIAL MEDIA OUTLETS. GET THE WORD OUT: SCALPERS NEED TO STOP TAKING ADVANTAGE OF OUR COMMUNITY!!

LOL. Charges $50 for this and has a big disclaimer about scalpers.

How much does the FPGA cost, non-wholesale? I honestly doubt you could build one by hand for all that much cheaper.

[Pasky]

How much does the FPGA cost, non-wholesale? I honestly doubt you could build one by hand for all that much cheaper.

Wahahahaha.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/2785671

That PCB is small so probably under $5 to make and that's being generous not including bulk buys. Add the cheap passive components and you got about $10-11 in your BOM.

[Guspaz]

Yeah, $50 for the board, $85 for board/install... That's incredibly cheap for this thing. For comparison, vgperfection is charging $140 USD for board/install.

At $50 it's the cheapest HDMI mod on the market by a BIG margin. Like, less than half the cost of any other HDMI mod board that I'm aware of.

[Guspaz]

How much does the FPGA cost, non-wholesale? I honestly doubt you could build one by hand for all that much cheaper.

Wahahahaha.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/2785671

That PCB is small so probably under $5 to make and that's being generous not including bulk buys. Add the cheap passive components and you got about $10-11 in your BOM.

Umm, that's a dinky little 640 LE FPGA. The GCVideo uses a Xilinx Spartan 3A that is ~6x that size.

[Pasky]

How much does the FPGA cost, non-wholesale? I honestly doubt you could build one by hand for all that much cheaper.

Wahahahaha.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/2785671

That PCB is small so probably under $5 to make and that's being generous not including bulk buys. Add the cheap passive components and you got about $10-11 in your BOM.

Umm, that's a dinky little 640 LE FPGA. The GCVideo uses a Xilinx Spartan 3A that is ~6x that size.

I went by the GCvideo github (https://github.com/ikorb/gcvideo/tree/master/Hardware). That page didn't show what they use.

Regardless...

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/1956974

$8 FPGA.

EDIT: Are you certain? According to the specs it's a 1.1~V supply...

[Guspaz]

This is the FPGA that it uses:

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/e ... ageSize=25

It's a QFP XC3S200A, I don't know which exact model. They go for $16-20 USD. On top of that, the PCB and passive components, the assembly time (he's soldering every board himself), and then the profit margin (he does this for a living). He's not a charity.

EDIT: This is from starting at GitHub, seeing it use the KNJN Pluto IIx-HDMI, going to the KNJN page for that $60 board, seeing the specsheet for that here:

http://www.knjn.com/docs/KNJN%20RS232%2 ... boards.pdf

And then there they both have photos of the FPGA and the family number of XC3S200A listed.

This thing is 40% of the price of the next cheapest HDMI mod, and you're complaining that it's overpriced. I don't understand your objection.

[Ikaruga11]

If you already have the component cables, there is no reason to install GCVideo unless you specifically need HDMI.

I just want the best possible picture. Whether it be RGB 480p, Component, HDMI GCVideo or Analog GCVideo.

Would HDMI GameCube be the best for a BVM CRT?