Oniken

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Ghegs
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Oniken

Post by Ghegs »

Thought there was a thread about this already, but I guess not.

Oniken is an indie NES-style action-platformer. I played it about a year ago when they released a beta (video here) and now they're finally releasing the full version next week. The official demo just came out and it has two full stages to play. The beta had a third stage which you can see in the video, but I have no idea if that ended up on the full version. There are differences in the other stages as well.

The gameplay's fun and I love the pixel graphics and Kenshiro-homage main character. The full version is up for pre-order on Desura for a couple of bucks.
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burgerkingdiamond
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Re: Oniken

Post by burgerkingdiamond »

Man that looks like a lot of fun.

Is it only going to be available via download? I didn't see any details about the release on the developer's website.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Udderdude »

Checked out the demo, they definitely try for the NES action platformer style of gameplay. It feels pretty close to it, and it's fun to play even if it isn't 100% perfect. Unfortunately the soundtrack is rather weak.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Ghegs »

burgerkingdiamond wrote:Man that looks like a lot of fun.

Is it only going to be available via download? I didn't see any details about the release on the developer's website.
The site has links to the pre-order on Desura on the main page. It's download-only.

Would be cool if they made a NES-style cardboard box with the game on a CD inside it, though.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Ghegs »

Full game was released yesterday. I beat it today.

It's a good game. It's not as "NES hard" as they claim, but this is largely due to the fact that you can start from whatever stage (six stages in total, with each stage having two or three acts) you've previously reached. A 1CC run would be harder of course but far from impossible, as there's a hidden 1up in every stage, giving the player a total of 9 lives to beat the game.

I might work on that, as the game really is fun to play. The controls are smooth and the visuals are lovely in their pixelly glory. The difficulty is kind of uneven, I found Stage 4 the hardest, followed by Stage 3. They had the trickiest platforming sections with many an insta-death pit to fall into. The bosses are somewhat even in their difficulty, once their patterns are figured out they can be dispatched, often without taking any damage, without too much difficulty.

There are a few issues. The powerups (health, sword range or grenades) are random so on one run you might be able to just grenade-spam a boss to death, while on another run you'll have to fight him properly. This wouldn't be much of an issue for normal play, but the game has a scoring system (and online leaderboards) in place. One of the factors of score is your time taken to beat a stage, which can vary greatly depending on what powerups you got. I talked to the developers and they are aware of the problem, so I'm curious to see if they do something about it.

Since you can start from whatever stage you've reached, the leaderboards also work a bit differently from what might be expected. Instead of uploading a score of your best 1CC score, you send your total score from the individual stages. So you improve your score by working on the stages' individual scores.

Beating the game unlocks a Boss Rush mode, and the score from that also counts towards the total score sent to the leaderboards. This is a really fun mode as it sidesteps the "problem" of random powerups by simply giving none and limiting the player to one life only, without even replenishing the player's health between bosses (aside from one or two health packs). While playing the game I developed rather suicidal tactics against some bosses since the health is restored between acts, can't use those here. No grenades either, so the mode forces the player to learn the toughest tactics against each boss. That's good stuff.

For €3.99 it was a great purchase. I hope they do something about the not-quite-viable score attack, but even if not, it's still fun to play. Though the game's for sale only on Desura, you can download a stand-alone, DRM-free copy of the game once you've made your purchase.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Udderdude »

Ghegs wrote:The powerups (health, sword range or grenades) are random so on one run you might be able to just grenade-spam a boss to death, while on another run you'll have to fight him properly. This wouldn't be much of an issue for normal play, but the game has a scoring system (and online leaderboards) in place. One of the factors of score is your time taken to beat a stage, which can vary greatly depending on what powerups you got. I talked to the developers and they are aware of the problem, so I'm curious to see if they do something about it.
Really hope they fix that issue, as it's certianly a big one.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Skykid »

This looks really cool. Shame it won't run on a mac. :(

The box art they whipped up has got an interesting vibe:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UrKQUX6hAoo/T ... /front.png
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Re: Oniken

Post by Vamos »

I bought this today and its great! only problem though is using a 360 pad and theres no grenade button? only sword and jump anyone else have this problem?
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Re: Oniken

Post by Ghegs »

Grenade is up + attack. Check the readme.txt ;)

I forgot to mention this, but you can't reconfigure the controls, not even the keyboard ones. There are four control options to choose from, two for keyboards and two for controllers, one of which is designed for a 360 pad. I used a keyboard configuration, set the controls to my liking with Xpadder and played with a Saturn pad.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Vamos »

ah problem solved ! thanks!
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Re: Oniken

Post by BulletMagnet »

In case Oniken fans hadn't already heard, the team is making another NES-style action game called Odallus, which takes more after Castlevania and Ghosts n' Goblins.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Looks really nice, I'll keep my eyes on it!
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Re: Oniken

Post by moonblood »

http://joymasher.com/odallus/

There's a demo for Odallus now :) haven't tried it myself yet though
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Re: Oniken

Post by BulletMagnet »

The GOG version of Oniken has been upgraded to the "Unstoppable Edition", with various tweaks applied; if you haven't bought it yet it can temporarily be had for a buck fifty, and Odallus is also on sale there for less than five bucks.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Ruldra »

GOG finally allows us brazilians to pay via boletos. A couple of times I had to ask strangers to buy games for me as I don't have an international credit card. Now I can buy stuff myself.

Bought Odallus and plan to buy a couple more games when they go on sale.
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Re: Oniken

Post by soprano1 »

Ruldra wrote:GOG finally allows us brazilians to pay via boletos. A couple of times I had to ask strangers to buy games for me as I don't have an international credit card. Now I can buy stuff myself.

Bought Odallus and plan to buy a couple more games when they go on sale.
Ironic, since JoyMasher is a Brazilian studio.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Specineff »

Ruldra wrote:GOG finally allows us brazilians to pay via boletos. A couple of times I had to ask strangers to buy games for me as I don't have an international credit card. Now I can buy stuff myself.
How are prices compared to the inflated ones of retail games?
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Re: Oniken

Post by Ruldra »

Steam and GOG actually charges less than what our currency is really worth. These days $1 is worth around R$3.30 but they charge as if $1 = R$2. I heard they do this on purpose to keep sales going, otherwise prices would be too high and no one would afford to buy anything.

Compare that to retail stores where most games are R$200 and above. You can easily find people selling their used copies for less than half of that.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Squire Grooktook »

As I've said before, I like these games and I like the developers enthusiasm and willingness to listen to feedback, but I still feel they lack...nuance.

Oniken feels like a very standard, if solidly executed, platformer. Odallus feels like a very standard, if solidly executed, metroidvania. Neither game have any mechanics, level designs, or playstyle that really standout and give them a unique personality or feel IMO.

The most I could say about Oniken, for instance, is that it feels to me like a slower Ninja Gaiden without the driving pace imparted by that games level designs and sword slash timings. Which is kinda the whole point of Ninja Gaiden...

The passion is there, but not the vision. I hope if Joymasher makes another game, they think long and hard about what kind of experience they want to simulate and what kind of mechanics or design elements they can use to bring it to life.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Sumez »

Got the game based on the GOG tip, and suddenly got reminded why I never got this originally, after playing the demo when it came out.

I actually think Squire is being too polite about it. I feel more like it has the vision but completely lacks the passion.
Basically, the game looks amazing, like the classic Natsume-style NES action sidescroller, obviously inspired by games like Ninja Gaiden, Shatterhand, Kage, and so on. A style that pretty much died with the NES, and which I know many of us would probably love to see make a comeback of sorts.
But god dammit, the gameplay, level design, enemy patterns, etc. just don't work. A lot of attacks are cheap and/or unavoidable, while the lenient life bar means that doesn't really matter anyway. Just tank your way through to the boss and spam grenades. There is barely any flow, but a lot of sections where the game expects you to stop and wait, for attacks to cycle, for enemies to spawn, and so on. Most of the "difficult" sections become pointlessly easy the moment you realise the pattern, making large portions of the stages simply boring to play through.

I like the mechanics of the guy you're controlling. Jumping, clinging to railings, and slashing the sword all feels natural and as it should. But it's marred by enemies that typically take at least two hits to defeat - even powerup containers take two hits, for no obvious reason. I would greatly have preferred more packed levels with more grunts that die in a single hit, just like you see in games like Ninja Gaiden.
The arc of the grenades combined with the annoying delay, makes them pretty much useless as an on the fly subweapon. You need to have an exact plan for exactly where and when to use them in order to even hit anything, adding to the lack of flow.

The story scenes are a cute nod to Ninja Gaiden and the famicom games that would copy it, but if they want to focus so much on the plot, I wish they would have integrated it into the game itself, rather than having you watch these ultimately rather boring seqeuences. Some of these are REALLY lengthy. I know they can be skipped, but a game shouldn't make me want to skip that kind of stuff on my first time through.

Maybe I'm being a little harsh on what is really just a small indie effort, and a homage to classic 8-bit action titles - but the truth is that seeing this game really sparked something in me, and I really wanted it to be what it looks like it set out to be. It has so many of the elements spot on - so it would have been great to see them go all the way. Maybe Odallus is a step further in the right direction? I bought it some months ago but never got around to giving it a spin.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Ruldra »

Sumez wrote:Maybe Odallus is a step further in the right direction? I bought it some months ago but never got around to giving it a spin.
I just finished playing it (including veteran mode). Overall I think it's a good game but it has some of the flaws you mentioned.

Early on you have a sword with a long recovery and enemies take multiple hits to kill, making the game feel slow paced. Late game, when you have a sword that attacks quickly and does double damage, an armor that reduces damage received and a big healthbar, I found myself not bothering to learn boss patterns. It's too easy to get close, attack as quickly as you can and hope it dies before you.

Actually I don't think the game was balanced with the silver claymore in mind, even the bosses in the final level die too quickly to it. I'd appreciate if there was a TLB specifically for players who 100%'d the whole thing, like in Demon's Crest.

Other than that, no real complaints. Level design is fine, there's barely any story other than a few dialogues and the whole game looks great. I enjoyed it.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Sumez »

Took some times with Odallus today, playing a few levels, and it's far better than Oniken. Well, it still has that awkward amateurish feel that reveals it's made using Multimedia Fusion, but you wouldn't be able to tell from still shots, it looks just as amazing as Oniken.
However, this time around the enemy and obstacle design is far more thought through and fair, without necessarily being easier. The health is more limited, forcing you to be more careful with the moves, and I actually really like the slow-as-fuck sword move, requiring every attack to be planned. I can imagine getting better armor and weapon will ruin it a bit though, as you said, provided the game doesn't scale up the enemies to fit that on the later areas.

What happens if I run out of those "extra life" pendants?
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Re: Oniken

Post by Ruldra »

Nothing really, you get a game over screen but you can simply choose 'Retry' and you'll go back to the beginning of the level with 3 more pendants. On veteran mode you lose all your money though.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Sumez »

Wow, that's lenient. Anything to even spend the money on apart from subweapon refills and those lives in the store? They get more expensive every time you buy them, so it seems like the "smart" thing to do would be just letting them run out to refill, in case you need to really stock up for a difficult section later on... Of course, from what you're telling, it doesn't seem like it's gonna get more difficult later on?
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Re: Oniken

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Sumez wrote:Took some times with Odallus today, playing a few levels, and it's far better than Oniken. Well, it still has that awkward amateurish feel that reveals it's made using Multimedia Fusion, but you wouldn't be able to tell from still shots, it looks just as amazing as Oniken.
However, this time around the enemy and obstacle design is far more thought through and fair, without necessarily being easier. The health is more limited, forcing you to be more careful with the moves, and I actually really like the slow-as-fuck sword move, requiring every attack to be planned. I can imagine getting better armor and weapon will ruin it a bit though, as you said, provided the game doesn't scale up the enemies to fit that on the later areas.

What happens if I run out of those "extra life" pendants?
Believe it or not, the slow sword swing was something they patched later after criticism of its initial design. I played with the original, less satisfying verison, so I'm a bit biased.

That being said, I still feel Odallus reeks of that "nothing special" feel. Bosses, level and enemy layouts, etc. it's all solid and looks pretty but never does anything particularly interesting.

Boss patterns for instance are uber simple and look as if someone just replicated the look of 8-bit boss battle patterns without any kind of special goal in mind. No noticeable rng to make you react, no particularly clever mental puzzles to solve in deciphering patterns. No particular balance of risk/reward or offense/defense. It's all just decent but nothing more.


Let's compare to say, Demon's Crest (which I think Odallus is heavily inspired by in terms of structure). Not the tightest action game either, but it immediately does something different with Firebrand's hovering flight controls and wall clawing climb, which in turn makes the level designs feel just as alien and inhuman as their protaganist as they twist in every direction to accomodate his movement. Bosses have much more unique and engaging patterns, the abilities you gain result in some wildly different levels (flight and swim come to mind the most), etc. Even so, it's not a great action game (mostly to be played for the atmosphere and the last few outright incredible boss encounters), but the gameplay has more soul and vision in simulating something besides a barebones metroidvania.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Sumez »

While I agree it's nothing special, I don't think it's as flat as you make it out to be. Both the level and bosses do have a lot of variation and creativity to them. You can't expect every game to sport Mega Man style bosses, and honestly I think several of the ones in Odallus are definitely on the level of what you'd normally see in these types of action games on the NES. Most of the bosses in Demon's Crest are terribly lackluster as well, and most can be cheaped by point blanking and mashing the fire button.
So far my favourite boss was the thing with three heads each with their own attack. Sure you can easily dodge them every time, once you've seen what they do, but I thought it was a fun idea, and adding the wind element halfway through the fight was a fun idea.
(unlike jumping on tiny moving platforms while the wind semi-randomly changes, which was a terrible idea)

Sure it's far from a 8/10 game, but unlike Oniken which I think is a pretty bad game overall, this one is definitely decent, and fun to play.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Maybe. I was going to say I may also be biased by the level of challenge. I beat every (iirc) boss on my first attempt, except the last one. The floating tri-head guy also glitched and permanently flew off screen, forcing me to restart :X

Later on, there are also some parts I found genuinely annoying. Wandering around looking for shit. Feels a bit more tiresome here than it does in the better Metroidvania's that subtlety guide you along. No way in hell was I going to go for 100% for the stupid cutscene.

But yeah. It's not too bad. I give it about a 6-7/10 roughly. I'd recommend it to people who just want a new arcade style platformer (Oniken) or Metroidvania (Odallus), but it's not the kind of thing I'd play more than once.

Actually I may have to revisit it myself. As I said, since I played it, a number of minor tweaks have been made to the engine. Most notably the sword slash actually feels good and makes sense mechanically now, as compared to the wonky cancellable blade from the original release. I may find myself enjoying it less cynically if I revisit it now.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Sumez »

I can imagine a cancellable attack would break a lot of the bosses.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Yeah, it was really dumb. I wrote a review that lambasted it for a paragraph. A review that is now obsolete :lol:
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Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Re: Oniken

Post by Ruldra »

Sumez wrote:Wow, that's lenient. Anything to even spend the money on apart from subweapon refills and those lives in the store? They get more expensive every time you buy them, so it seems like the "smart" thing to do would be just letting them run out to refill, in case you need to really stock up for a difficult section later on... Of course, from what you're telling, it doesn't seem like it's gonna get more difficult later on?
Nope, that's all that money is for. Shop prices don't go up forever though, at least the soup bowl caps at 35. Most of the weapon refills I got from chests all over the game. As long as you're not using them like crazy it should never be an issue.

On veteran mode however they're really helpful for bosses. Random enemies keep appearing during the battles and subweapons often one-shot enemies that would require multiple sword attacks to kill. Save your refills for these fights.
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This is the biggest compliment you can give to people on this forum.
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