OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[ZellSF]

I don't know about that, I prefer my signals to be as sharp as possible (not overly sharpened of course) so I don't really understand why so many people want a really soft 480p, I have a feeling it's just because most televisions over the last 15 years have had really bad 480p processing and now that's what we think it should look like, it's infected our brains!

I've heard this before... I wonder if you think DVDs should be upscaled using the sharpest scaling available too?

[Xyga]

Well yeah while some 480p source games look beautiful, some look like shit on anything but a crt.
The former can shine on flat panels with just clean upscaling, although subtle touches of EE/DE like on the DVDOs can do miracles.
The latter will still look like shit, except maybe with scanlines emulation (or extremely negative EE/DE values lol).

One thing about the 'good 480p' games fit for flat panels if we only care about those, is that if we're talking about LCDs then the problem of natural pixel smearing remains anyway (save for the few extreme performance monitors maybe) so even those subtle artificial blur adjustments are not necessary, the quality of the upscaling and interpolation will matter much more in the overall resulting quality-clarity.

[Blair]

I don't know about that, I prefer my signals to be as sharp as possible (not overly sharpened of course) so I don't really understand why so many people want a really soft 480p, I have a feeling it's just because most televisions over the last 15 years have had really bad 480p processing and now that's what we think it should look like, it's infected our brains!

I've heard this before... I wonder if you think DVDs should be upscaled using the sharpest scaling available too?

well, it probably depends on how good the source of the video is right? I mean if you have a lo-res blurry source then you might have to do some sharpening. (sort of like some recent botched animation releases that are nothing but reprints of old Betacam copies)

but if you have a good high quality source that's been properly preserved, then you probably shouldn't have to do anything to it. I mean basically what I want is something that maintains details and is the least destructive to the source as possible. you can do this with most high-quality CRT monitors. I can output the Dreamcast to my sony e-400 multiscan and lose nothing in the process, if I try the same thing to my Samsung I get an overly soft image lacking definition (and the sharpening controls don't help, they just add ringing)

it's the current digital processing of the source material that's the problem, the OSSC however provides a potential way out of this dilemma with its line doubling and ( hopefully soon) line quadrupling technology.

Well yeah while some 480p source games look beautiful, some look like shit on anything but a crt.
The former can shine on flat panels with just clean upscaling, although subtle touches of EE/DE like on the DVDOs can do miracles.
The latter will still look like shit, except maybe with scanlines emulation (or extremely negative EE/DE values lol).

One thing about the 'good 480p' games fit for flat panels if we only care about those, is that if we're talking about LCDs then the problem of natural pixel smearing remains anyway (save for the few extreme performance monitors maybe) so even those subtle artificial blur adjustments are not necessary, the quality of the upscaling and interpolation will matter much more in the overall resulting quality-clarity.

I agree, heck you'd be surprised how many actual PS2 games benefit from scanlines (some games make that system seem like it was designed for resolutions barely above 384p)

and it's sad that for the last 15+ years we've had to deal with motion smearing and the loss of resolution. LCD technology was always great for still images, but to me it was kind of a regression for everything else. and we still have trouble getting decent color. I mean if you expect me to pay over $600 for something. it should conform to at least 90% of the RGB color spectrum, that shouldn't be too much to ask. I'm not sure if it's the failing of the world economy or the general move to China's manufacturing process of electronics, but quality and price ratios have been ridiculous, prices are raising, while quality is going down.

that's another reason why I'm rooting for the success of the OSSC, quality product at an affordable price. we don't have enough of those these days

[Thomago]

Ha, I'm actually looking forward to using the OSSC as a deinterlacer for botched PAL DVDs.
I have several releases that look insufferably bad when played on my HDMI DVD player thanks to shoddy NTSC -> PAL conversions; the OSSC's bob deinterlacing might make these look actually tolerable.

[Das Muel]

Well yeah while some 480p source games look beautiful, some look like shit on anything but a crt.
The former can shine on flat panels with just clean upscaling, although subtle touches of EE/DE like on the DVDOs can do miracles.
The latter will still look like shit, except maybe with scanlines emulation (or extremely negative EE/DE values lol).

One thing about the 'good 480p' games fit for flat panels if we only care about those, is that if we're talking about LCDs then the problem of natural pixel smearing remains anyway (save for the few extreme performance monitors maybe) so even those subtle artificial blur adjustments are not necessary, the quality of the upscaling and interpolation will matter much more in the overall resulting quality-clarity.

I'm feeding the OSSC's 480i linedouble into my Micomsoft XPC-4 and outputting in 1600x1200 to my 4K OLED. Generally speaking, I actually prefer this to the OSSC's linedouble or the XPC-4's upscale of 480p (Dreamcast, PS2 or Xbox). I'm actually quite fond of the flicker filter used with the RGB scart outputs from these consoles (Unfiltered PS2 games do look pretty rough, sure), and combined with some quite strong alternating scanlines, it gives an effective anti-aliasing effect (if you can deal with the inherent 480i artifacts). "Raw" 480p output to a good CRT monitor will probably always be top of the tree for me, but this is the next best thing in my opinion.

[Blair]

that's pretty cool Das Muel, I'm glad you've achieved your desired look.

personally I was never a fan of 480i for games or movies, to me the Flickr was always distracting. although some consumer televisions did a better job hiding it (later model Trinitron's) unfortunately PVM's don't do a very good job hiding 480i flicker (they make even more apparent), I think that's why a lot of people that get into production monitor gaming notice that affect a lot more, and look for ways of downscaling or de-interlacing. (but I'm even more irritated by LCD motion blur)

I've also pretty much achieved what I wanted my games to look like, thanks to some awesome retroacrh shaders. I get the razor-sharp picture of a BVM, the scanlines (I don't use alternating scanlines much, but I have that option if I need it) the dithering/ transparency effects of composite output (without any of the drawbacks). but I'm only able to do this with a few systems.

I still want to use the OSSC with my own hardware, I also want it for things that aren't fully emulated yet (Sega Saturn) or to enhance some emulators that don't support shaders (most of the emulators for Japanese microcomputers).

I'm also eager to start streaming and recording some gameplay with it.

Ha, I'm actually looking forward to using the OSSC as a deinterlacer for botched PAL DVDs.

I was also thinking about movie and TV applications for the OSSC, got a couple of Blu-rays, DVDs, VHS and LDs I'm definitely going to test out on it.

[LDigital]

I have my ossc running into to my bvm d20
Absolutely everything runs in 480p now and I have total control of the scanlines. It's the ultimate combo

[Blair]

I have my ossc running into to my bvm d20 Absolutely everything runs in 480p now and I have total control of the scanlines. It's the ultimate combo

that sounds pretty rad, I'd like to see some pictures or videos of that sometime. I'll probably use the OSSC mostly on my Samsung HDTV and Asus LCD monitor. but I'm also pretty jazzed to give it a spin on my PVM-20L5 and my Electron blue.

[Fudoh]

yes, pics please!

Which scanline setting do you use ? 100% ? I found that using semi-transparent scanlines on a CRT looks weird, so 100% is the only option.

[LDigital]

Yeah 100%
I'll take some pics later but I struggle with CRT pics on my iPhone due to the refresh. Any suggestions on an app or settings

[korpse413]

+1 For pictures

Is it best to wait before grabbing an ossc? like, is there going to be a 'retail premade' version? or is everything that it will ever be available right now, its just up to the purchaser to either assemble it/outsource it? is the hardware set to change or is it stricly firmware revisions to expect? thanks

[Fudoh]

Of course you can get a preassembled unit. You just have to get in line and have some patience.

[FinalBaton]

Ha, I'm actually looking forward to using the OSSC as a deinterlacer for botched PAL DVDs.

I was also thinking about movie and TV applications for the OSSC, got a couple of Blu-rays, DVDs, VHS and LDs I'm definitely going to test out on it.

Is the OSSC a really good deinterlacer for video sources?

[Fudoh]

it doesn't do any interpolation. Some displays did exactly that (early Pioneer Plasmas for example). The positive thing about that is that it's always solid and never gives you any deinterlacing or combing artefacts. The downside is that you basically cut your resolution into half.

[LDigital]

Ok as promised here are a few pics of my setup. I'm about to move so the mancave isn't as it should be yet.

From the front.




The kit I have running, that's a £20 HDMI to Component convertor, it's totally lagless as far as I can tell. Got it from Amazon along with the cables. I was surprised how good they turned out to be for £5. I also have a phono switch which selects between the 3.5mm out from Ossc or the Wii component phono breakout before going to my amp



Megaman X 480p with no scanlines (apart from those lovely ones generated by the screen itself)



Same but with max scanlines. It looks very 240p now but I think it is a little softer on the edges than genuine 240p. I think this is just something ossc does for some reason



And with vertical scanlines because why the hell not. I actually really like this look because the two sets of scanlines crossing over make it look a little like plasma

I'll try make some others at request but the iPhone camera hates CRT

Any questions just ask

[RGB32E]

Have you tried tapping to focus, then sliding down to adjust the exposure so that pictures like the first aren't washed out?

[LDigital]

I didn't know you could. I'll take some more

Edit:

Bah, it's so annoying I just get big black lines that park right on top of what I'm trying to show. I have no idea how everyone manages such sexy CRT pics all the time. Those will do for now

[RGB32E]

I didn't know you could. I'll take some more

How to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izTqyudTsyU

[Blair]

I was also thinking about movie and TV applications for the OSSC, got a couple of Blu-rays, DVDs, VHS and LDs I'm definitely going to test out on it.

Is the OSSC a really good deinterlacer for video sources?

I probably wouldn't be using the OSSC for very much de-interlacing, (unless I was going to use its alternating scanline function). but I would probably use its solid scanline functions. (check my VHS scanline pictures from a previous thread, some early experiments) (PVM-20L5)

Spoiler

Spoiler

I enjoy watching some types of Video content with scanlines (there's actually a pretty active community in Japan of people who watch things in 240p with RGB monitors)

Ok as promised here are a few pics of my setup. I'm about to move so the mancave isn't as it should be yet.

those look really nice LDigital!

depending on the type of camera you have (iPhone?) you should be able to make a few adjustments to take even cleaner pictures.

try to make the room as dark as possible (I shoot in a pitch black room)

no flash

use a lower ISO setting (200 - 400) depending on how bright your screen is

set to macro mode, or manual focus mode and adjust In until you see really sharp lines in your viewfinder. and just experiment from their.

another thing to do is adjust the White Balance, for CRTs most people either do "sunny" or "fluorescent" but you figure out what works on your particular set up.

[FinalBaton]

it doesn't do any interpolation. Some displays did exactly that (early Pioneer Plasmas for example). The positive thing about that is that it's always solid and never gives you any deinterlacing or combing artefacts. The downside is that you basically cut your resolution into half.

Ahhhhh. So with 480i, instead of showing both even and odd lines of the original picture on every 60 cycles, it instead throws away the uneven lines and double the even lines and shows that on all 60 cycles. Gotcha

[Fudoh]

Ahhhhh. So with 480i, instead of showing both even and odd lines of the original picture on every 60 cycles, it instead throws away the uneven lines and double the even lines and shows that on all 60 cycles. Gotcha

not exactly. There are no even AND uneven lines for every frame. Each field only contains one set. But better video deinterlacers use TWO fields to create every of the 60 new frames, weaving parts without motion and interpolating areas with movement. 1+2 becomes A, 2+3 becomes B, 3+4 becomes C and so on. Here neither is done, but every field is simply line doubled on its own.

[FinalBaton]

Ahhhhh. So with 480i, instead of showing both even and odd lines of the original picture on every 60 cycles, it instead throws away the uneven lines and double the even lines and shows that on all 60 cycles. Gotcha

not exactly. There are no even AND uneven lines for every frame. Each field only contains one set. But better video deinterlacers use TWO fields to create every of the 60 new frames, weaving parts without motion and interpolating areas with movement. 1+2 becomes A, 2+3 becomes B, 3+4 becomes C and so on. Here neither is done, but every field is simply line doubled on its own.

This is exactly what I meant, I think I did a poor job of explaining myself

[cfx]

.

[Bahn Yuki]

Guys I am making a video on the new TV I got for my arcade cabinet and wanted to try out the OSSC with SNES in linetriple mode. Is there a certain game that always desyncs? So far in my testing it seems solid and hasn't desynched yet in an hour through various games.

[marqs]

Guys I am making a video on the new TV I got for my arcade cabinet and wanted to try out the OSSC with SNES in linetriple mode. Is there a certain game that always desyncs? So far in my testing it seems solid and hasn't desynched yet in an hour through various games.

Sync stability with SNES is more related to displays tolerating not-so-optimal signal than the games themselves. There are games that switch between interlace and non-interlace modes (e.g. one scene in Chrono Trigger) but they are few and far between.

Speaking of SNES, I've tested a customized firmware with some timing-critical logic replaced with functionality tailored for SNES. Using that with SC-512N1 (set to minimum 50% bandwidth) has resulted to no sync issues compared to the standard fw which requires at least 125% BW for stable operation. More testing is still needed but for now it seems it could have solved the NES/SNES issue, although I'm not sure if that solution can be easily integrated to the standard fw.

[Bahn Yuki]

https://youtu.be/v8xssAO2Zcg

Thank you Marqs for your reply, I just tested Chrono Trigger's intro.

[kel]

Firmware 0.72 is now out with the following updates:

* Some scanline rendering issues fixed
* Initial input option added
* Advanced timing tweaker added
* R/G/B gain/offset controls added
* Sync filtering improvements (should remove the need for sync LPF/external filters in many cases, and slightly improves NES/SNES compatibility)

Since "auto lev. ctrl" has been replaced by the R/G/B gain/offset controls would it be any trouble to state the previous values for "auto lev. ctrl -off", or are they actually different options altogether?

The colours just seemed better to me with it turned off than with it turned on for some reason. Although I had to compensate for the extra brightness, I preferred it this way.

[RocketKnight]

Speaking of SNES, I've tested a customized firmware with some timing-critical logic replaced with functionality tailored for SNES. Using that with SC-512N1 (set to minimum 50% bandwidth) has resulted to no sync issues compared to the standard fw which requires at least 125% BW for stable operation. More testing is still needed but for now it seems it could have solved the NES/SNES issue, although I'm not sure if that solution can be easily integrated to the standard fw.

Congrats! That's great news!

Would providing a switch option for SNES/non-SNES ease the integration of this SNES-specific code into the FW? It wouldn't bother me at all. As soon as it works I'll be on the order list for your next batch of OSSC's.

[LDigital]

I haven't had a single problem with any snes game so far. I have a 1chip-01. Are there problematic games or something or are people seeing problems on all games?

[ZellSF]

I haven't had a single problem with any snes game so far. I have a 1chip-01. Are there problematic games or something or are people seeing problems on all games?

It's a compatibility problem with some TVs. 1CHIPs might be less susceptible .