Custom FW for DVDO Processors, can it be done?

[h1ghju1ce]

I had a thought about the DVDO range of video processors (or any of them, Crytalio/Lumagen/etc)

some people were hoping to use one in their chain from an OSSC, but were disappointed to find that their unit wouln't accept the x2/x3
output from the OSSC.

So I wondered if it was even a possibility that a modified FW could be flashed to th device to accept the slightly out of spec/range
outputs from the OSSC ?

The FW files are still downloadable using the wayback machine: (eg VP30), and the .ABT files are only 128KB

http://web.archive.org/web/200804190311 ... eement.php


Are the FW files encrypted? or would the FW not have the ability to change allowable inputs, (ie its hardcoded into the silicon)

I suspect it might be doable, due to the changelog of the VP30 FW, adds support for custom output resolutions

"Six Additional Output Format presets:

848x480, 1:1 timing for NEC 42" plasmas
1024x768, 1:1 timing for NEC 42" plasmas
(In addition to the existing 1024x768 VESA format)
1360x768, 1:1 timing for Fujitsu 50" plasmas
1360x768, 1:1 timing for NEC 50" plasmas
1366x768, 1:1 timing for Panasonic 50" plasmas
(In addition to the existing 1366x768 format)
1365x768, 1:1 timing for NEC 50" and 61" plasmas"

[Fudoh]

I get your question, but I don't follow your argumentation.

Which DVDOs aren't compatible with the OSSC ? Radiance should be fine as well and CII also plays nicely with the OSSC.

All the DVDOs have completely flexible output timings anyway, so adding new ones via FW is trivial.

In general you have to differentiate between ASIC based units (like the SiI504 in the VP30 or the Gennum in the CII) and FPGA based units (VP50, 50Pro, Lumagen Radiance). On ASIS based units you only have very little flexibility. You can basically add some menu or functionatility tweaks to the FW. On the FPGA based units you can - theoretically - rewrite the whole FPGA core. You could probably turn a 50Pro into a NES if you wanted to.

But since there's no documentation whatsoever on the VPs themselves in regard to this, it's all very theoretical. But again my question: which compatibility issues made you think of this ?

[fafangus]

OSSC + Crystalio 2 gives me what I want, and accept all kind of res/frequency I use (240p x2/x3 288p x2/x3 480p x2...)

[h1ghju1ce]

DVDO - I was referring to the older VPxx range (I have no knowledge of the radiance range)
I've read that the VP50 Pro doesnt accept the line double/triple mode output of the OSSC
( I have assumed the same of the VP30/VP20, but havent actually tested my VP30 yet...)

so my question and rational was, is it possible to tweak the FW to allow those input modes to work.

From the ASIC/FPGA info, it sounds like the VP30/30 dont have the flexibility to allow any hacks.

The FPGA ones may well do, but there is so little documentation, that it would be extremely difficult, correct?


Crystalio - I was referring to the lower end/older models like my 2800

[ZellSF]

DVDO - I was referring to the older VPxx range (I have no knowledge of the radiance range)
I've read that the VP50 Pro doesnt accept the line double/triple mode output of the OSSC
( I have assumed the same of the VP30/VP20, but havent actually tested my VP30 yet...)

so my question and rational was, is it possible to tweak the FW to allow those input modes to work.

From the ASIC/FPGA info, it sounds like the VP30/30 dont have the flexibility to allow any hacks.

The FPGA ones may well do, but there is so little documentation, that it would be extremely difficult, correct?


Crystalio - I was referring to the lower end/older models like my 2800

The DVDO VP50, VP50 Pro, Edge and Edge Green all support line double / line triple output of the OSSC in NTSC mode. No clue if anyone has tested the VP30 yet.

[h1ghju1ce]

Ah ok, maybe its a PAL/288p/576i problem then

I'll try and test my VP30 when I get a spare half hour!

[ZellSF]

PAL is a different story yes, unsure of the details.

Don't think there's any chance of seeing custom FW anyway, as much as I want someone to replace that ugly blue no signal screen with a black one...

[Blair]

the only thing I can think of that I would really want in custom firmware's on DVDO Processors, would be adjustable scanline overlays for 240p, 480p, and de-interlaced 480i content.

(proper handling of 240p as a progressive source for the older HD/HD+ models would be nice)

I'm still amazed by how well most DVDO units perform today, especially when compared to the integrated processors of most HDTVs (although things seem to be getting better in that regard, at least for the 4K generation that's coming up)

I guess some users have issues with PAL output it seems, but I've never really had too many problems (I game exclusively in NTSC standards, unless I'm using a PS2 game with a PAL 60 mode or patch)

[BuckoA51]

On the 50 Pro, PAL line triple doesn't work, but it does on the DVDO Edge. Not a huge loss really I guess, though would be nice.

[h1ghju1ce]

On the 50 Pro, PAL line triple doesn't work, but it does on the DVDO Edge. Not a huge loss really I guess, though would be nice.

also you mentioned the 480p double doesnt work on the 50Pro, but does on the EDGE

-----------------------------

I think there was some confusion with my 1st post, when I pasted the updated output resolutions from the FW change log.
that was just an example that it could be possible to add supported resolution to the FW.

My idea/question was actually about improving the compatibility of the allowed INPUT resolution/timings

[Blair]

what DVDO units are you currently using h1ghju1ce?

[h1ghju1ce]

I have a VP30 [with the ABT102 Deinterlacer card)

Its all Fudoh's "fault"

once I found his site, I was doomed to spend £££££ on kit for the next 2 years


I also ended up with:

Extron Super Emotia
Extron 203rxi
Lumagen VisionHD
Sony BVM-20F1E + Control Unit + Calibration Camera thing
Sony PVM-20L4

and a huge stack of Scart/BNC/VGA cables!

[Fudoh]

Xyga got a VP30 and a OSSC, so you can ask him about compatibility for this particular combination.

[Xyga]

Ouch. Most of my stuff is still stored since my moving in June, damn busy summer.
I wrote a bit about it some time ago, though it was still under fw 0.70 IIRC: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=1440

PAL linetripled 50Hz locked works, BUT it's a bit quirky as the VP30 gets confused and accepts to lock only at 720p50 at first, then you can switch to 1080p50 locked.
The real issue however is that it requires you to force compatibility by selecting 320x240 optimal mode on the OSSC side, which naturally harms the scaling quality.
No picture otherwise, same problem as with the other VPs.

No problems with linetripled NTSC sources of course, although I haven't tried any significantly off-60Hz arcade boards (don't own any at the moment anyway).
I'd expect the VP30 to be less tolerant in that area compared to the 50pro (and maybe 50 too if both behave the same, dunno).

Haven't tried doubled 480p yet of course since I have yet to update the fw.
More on that combination asap (in the course of September, or fuck my life)

[BuckoA51]

also you mentioned the 480p double doesnt work on the 50Pro, but does on the EDGE

Yes that's the case at least in my tests. 480p double didn't look great going through the Edge either.

[Blair]

BuckoA51, what exactly was the problem with 480p line double mode on the edge? from the test image you showed it seemed like jail bars similar to some people's issues with Sega Saturn.

did you have any discussions with marqs to see what might be causing that visual glitch? any ideas on how to remedy the situation?

[h1ghju1ce]

After re-reading XYGA's post, I do remember it now (but I forgive myself for not remembering a post from May )

So it looks like the VP30 can be made to accept the OSSC output if certain hoops are jumped through,

but the weirdness of having to set a certain mode 1st, THEN change it to 1080p, sounds to me like a FW bug

So to me that brings my query full circle, how possible is it to make changes to the VP30 FW that arent made by DVD/ABT/SIL

But I suppose there is the chance that its a bug in the ASIC part of the hardware, like how Marqs has to work around low level bugs in the TVP chip

I did have a quick look at the .ABT FW file, in a HEX editor, but I saw no obvious ASCII strings, which makes me wonder if its encrypted?
(or maybe just compressed, my knowledge is pretty limited)

[BuckoA51]

BuckoA51, what exactly was the problem with 480p line double mode on the edge? from the test image you showed it seemed like jail bars similar to some people's issues with Sega Saturn.

did you have any discussions with marqs to see what might be causing that visual glitch? any ideas on how to remedy the situation?

Probably just bad scaling by the DVDO, truthfully I'm not that fussed about 480p line double so didn't spend very long on it.

So to me that brings my query full circle, how possible is it to make changes to the VP30 FW that arent made by DVD/ABT/SIL

There's theoretically possible then there's probable. Trying to disassemble a firmware is going to be quite a challenge in itself, let alone modifying it.

[Blair]

Probably just bad scaling by the DVDO, truthfully I'm not that fussed about 480p line double so didn't spend very long on it.

really? I thought you played a lot of games through your DVDO, line doubling and (perhaps someday) line quadrupling of 480p should theoretically give a much better picture than traditional scaling, and there would be much less problems with ringing.

[Einhandr]

So I've got a vp20 (no deinterlacing card) with an OSSC on the way eventually. I'd just like to run 240p content (SNES/Genesis/PCE) in line double mode so the vp20 accepts it as 480p for minimal lag. What sorts of issues should I expect (if any)?

[Fudoh]

What sorts of issues should I expect (if any)?

none?

[Xyga]

Maybe the little settings annoyances we've seen from the other VP's ? everything was mentioned in the OSSC thread, would be a huge hassle to write again though.

[Blair]

So I've got a vp20 (no deinterlacing card) with an OSSC on the way eventually. I'd just like to run 240p content (SNES/Genesis/PCE) in line double mode so the vp20 accepts it as 480p for minimal lag. What sorts of issues should I expect (if any)?

I assume the VP20 is similar to my older DVDO HD+ so it depends on what type of signal you feed it. here are some screen shots I took from a PSX feeding the DVDO an RGB scart cable. (I recommend you use the best video connection you can, s-video and component will also look ok) (240p input, 1080p output)

[Gallery link: (more pics in here) [http://imgur.com/a/57APR]

Spoiler

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If you find the image a little dull just add a bit of sharpening (like these)

[Gallery link: [http://imgur.com/a/pN3dS]

Spoiler

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if anybody's interested, I could also post some video.

[Fudoh]

VP20 and VP30 are identical (except for some connections), so they have the same deinterlacing engine as the HD/HD+ but a new scaling engine.

Einhandr will be using it as a secondary processor to the OSSC though, so the deinterlacing capabilities don't matter.

[ZellSF]

Maybe the little settings annoyances we've seen from the other VP's ? everything was mentioned in the OSSC thread, would be a huge hassle to write again though.

Are there that many though? I can only remember:

• Cadence detection will sometimes result in signal loss on mode changes (shouldn't apply to the VP20).
• HDCP will sometimes result in signal loss on mode changes.
• PAL linetriple is problematic.
• Can't do full > limited color range conversion which only matters if your TV doesn't have a manual setting for color range. (even then it's not a big deal).

[Xyga]

In regards to PAL linetripling issues (optimal mode not working) there was also that 'bug' when 1080p50 output format only becomes selectable after setting 720p50 first.
Also some people can't seem to get decent HDMI audio injection/mixing (related to HDMI cable and Sinpro PSU condition IMHO)