OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Fudoh]

really ? HDTVtest.co.uk has the lag at 42ms (with Leo's handheld tester).

[ZellSF]

My Life in Gaming on the OSSC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU

A bit too focused on comparing it to the XRGB-mini.

[fafangus]

Yes I see that, I was afraid of it in first, but compared to my last samsung who was a 32" from 2014-2015 I don't see a difference
And with the OSSC, now it's ever faster than before :p
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Am I blind ?

[Fudoh]

42ms on Leo's comes down to pretty much exactly 2 frames. Combined with a lag free processor like the OSSC, that's still perfectly fine. It's just probably not the best recommendation when somebody asks specifically for a very fast display.

[CobraKing]

My Life in Gaming on the OSSC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU

A bit too focused on comparing it to the XRGB-mini.

I suppose the XRGB-Mini is the benchmark but they didn't seem to concerned with input lag and 240p/480i switching. That said I'm happy with my OSSC.

[RocketKnight]

I would like to know whether it would be possible to implement an additional bobbing deinterlacing mode. It's the closest thing to the original interlaced video, doesn't suffer from loss of detail and therefore would supposedly look better than the single field mode.

[Guspaz]

My Life in Gaming on the OSSC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU

A bit too focused on comparing it to the XRGB-mini.

I suppose the XRGB-Mini is the benchmark but they didn't seem to concerned with input lag and 240p/480i switching. That said I'm happy with my OSSC.

Really? Because they discuss both of those things specifically for both the Framemeister and OSSC.

[FBX]

My Life in Gaming on the OSSC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU

A bit too focused on comparing it to the XRGB-mini.

I suppose the XRGB-Mini is the benchmark but they didn't seem to concerned with input lag and 240p/480i switching. That said I'm happy with my OSSC.

Really? Because they discuss both of those things specifically for both the Framemeister and OSSC.

I'm with you on that one. They addressed both issues and weighed the pros and cons of both.

[Fudoh]

I would like to know whether it would be possible to implement an additional bobbing deinterlacing mode. It's the closest thing to the original interlaced video, doesn't suffer from loss of detail and therefore would supposedly look better than the single field mode.

that's per definition the same thing. What difference would you expect ? If you do unaltered "standard BOB" on a 480i signal you get extensive line flicker. So the only difference the OSSC makes is to slightly shift the processed fields towards each other to reduce the effect.

[ZellSF]

On the SNES point I wish they would have mentioned that 1CHIPs seem to fare better. Have we confirmed that yet?

[paulb_nl]

My displays dont have a problem with the snes but compared to the multi chip snes the 1-CHIP needs more sync LPF to keep a stable sync with some games. Thats with luma sync.

[Blair]

My Life in Gaming on the OSSC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU

A bit too focused on comparing it to the XRGB-mini.

yeah, I was actually kind of disappointed with the MLIG guys on this episode. the're usually pretty good on details and testing things, but everything about this episode felt really rushed, and shallow in the information department. I'm guessing it's because they were borrowing pretty much everything for the episode and wanted to quickly get them back to their owners (and least that's my assumption from what was said in the video).

they seem to indicate in their findings that the OSSC+DVDO Edge combo has less ringing than the VP50 combo, has anyone else noticed that? I've never really directly compared them so I always assumed they had fairly similar scaling engines.

but this takes me back to the pictures FBX posted in this thread (when he was testing a VP50) and makes me think that's why the ringing in his pictures seemed so much worse than what I normally see on my own units, although I have a VP50 Pro... which makes me wonder if the normal VP50 and the Pro might also have differences in their scaling output (does the pro-have less or the same ringing as the normal VP50?). they also didn't indicate what resolution the input from the OSSC was at (line double? line triple?) for that comparison they posted. (once again, kind of sloppy)

I was also disappointed with how they completely dismissed the 240p handling of the DVDO units and didn't even try to improve the picture quality with adjustments (especially on the edge unit) or show how they could be paired with SLG's (to further improve picture quality).

they also gave an unfair impression of the 480p scanlines from the OSSC, I mean why didn't he just turn his brightness up? (I have that particular model of Samsung and they usually have awesome light reserves when it comes to aggressive scanlines, unless he has one of the models with a really crappy panel) I wonder if he's even tuned that Samsung for RGB input? (is he running it in the native? or expanded? settings) (Samsung's of that era have specific settings that need to be tweaked for proper RGB/HDMI contrast and color levels).

and they barely mentioned the 480p line doubling of OSSC, and once again didn't really explain much about it, gave a negative impression of it and didn't really explain why they didn't like it (apparently they prefer really soft 480p?) and I'm guessing they didn't bother testing that mode with any of the scaler options (because they didn't mention it).

I would have also liked a little more depth on the testing of the Iscan micro, but from their initial findings it seems like it doesn't help with compatibility like the other units do. that's kind of a bummer. (i'm still interested in trying out a few of my own theories though).

it would also have been nice if they had tested a few things out on some 4K Tv's and monitors, I know that's probably way more difficult though because of price and availability concerns. (it's too bad we couldn't get an OSSC to some of those folks that work on TV and monitor testing sites, would probably help with building a compatibility list)

on a side note, from what I hear, all of the 4K Visio TVs upscale (all content) at 4:4:2 RGB instead of full range. ( but I assume they can display 4:4:4 RGB at 4k60 if it's being fed directly to the monitor, right?)

That OSSC newsletter this morning Looks like I'm gonna get one sooner than I thought!

yeah just saw that newsletter, excellent. i'm in the 400's, so I wonder if I'll be able to get in on this shipment...?

[RocketKnight]

I would like to know whether it would be possible to implement an additional bobbing deinterlacing mode. It's the closest thing to the original interlaced video, doesn't suffer from loss of detail and therefore would supposedly look better than the single field mode.

that's per definition the same thing. What difference would you expect ? If you do unaltered "standard BOB" on a 480i signal you get extensive line flicker. So the only difference the OSSC makes is to slightly shift the processed fields towards each other to reduce the effect.

So the OSSC does display both fields? That puts it in another perspective. Because of the designation 'single field deinterlacing' I thought it would skip every even or odd field.

[Fudoh]

BOB doesn't display both fields at the same time. It displays ONE field at a time. 60 fields become 60 frames. Before each field has 240 lines, afterwards each frame has 480 lines - hence "line doubling".

It's called single field processing because no adjacent frames are used to built a full frame. Proper video deinterlacing for interlaced material uses a number of frames to interpolate between them - weaving parts without motion and interpolating fast moving areas.

[RGB32E]

My Life in Gaming on the OSSC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU

A bit too focused on comparing it to the XRGB-mini.

yeah, I was actually kind of disappointed with the MLIG guys on this episode. the're usually pretty good on details and testing things, but everything about this episode felt really rushed, and shallow in the information department. I'm guessing it's because they were borrowing pretty much everything for the episode and wanted to quickly get them back to their owners (and least that's my assumption from what was said in the video). probably wouldn't have been possible or necessary,

That's pretty much true of all their videos, especially if you have prior experience with the "new" items they cover. You also have to consider their target demographic - people with low to no experience in the area. Even folks like phonedork are like this - glossing over/not making the proper distinctions about topics, and demonstrating a heavy bias (playing on tubes over modern displays).

I will say that this MLiG video does touch on key areas of importance when using the OSSC, and they do provide a FW rev disclaimer, which is appreciated.

[BuckoA51]

I was also disappointed with how they completely dismissed the 240p handling of the DVDO units and didn't even try to improve the picture quality with adjustments (especially on the edge unit) or show how they could be paired with SLG's (to further improve picture quality).

What adjustments can be done? You can't even add EE/DE on the Edge in game mode. Who's going to jump through all the hoops to push the output through a scanline generator when said setup is going to cost a fortune and give sub-optimal results compared to most alternatives anyway?

[ZellSF]

My Life in Gaming on the OSSC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU

A bit too focused on comparing it to the XRGB-mini.

yeah, I was actually kind of disappointed with the MLIG guys on this episode. the're usually pretty good on details and testing things, but everything about this episode felt really rushed, and shallow in the information department. I'm guessing it's because they were borrowing pretty much everything for the episode and wanted to quickly get them back to their owners (and least that's my assumption from what was said in the video). probably wouldn't have been possible or necessary,

That's pretty much true of all their videos, especially if you have prior experience with the "new" items they cover. You also have to consider their target demographic - people with low to no experience in the area.

Which is why I'm complaining about that video and other impressions of the OSSC spending so much time on XRGB-mini comparisons. Tell people how the device is, not how it compares to another device they might not have (and that serves a different purpose).

[RGB32E]

That's pretty much true of all their videos, especially if you have prior experience with the "new" items they cover. You also have to consider their target demographic - people with low to no experience in the area.

Which is why I'm complaining about that video and other impressions of the OSSC spending so much time on XRGB-mini comparisons. Tell people how the device is, not how it compares to another device they might not have (and that serves a different purpose).

Yeah, it's unfortunate... The scanlined backgrounds for their green screen weren't enough?! I could take some captures if that helps!

My Life in Gaming also totally botched the naming of the HD15 connector! I suppose that will help misinform more people!

Monoprice has a good support post regarding the differences between DB15 and HD15/DE15/VGA - http://support.monoprice.com/link/porta ... s-VGA-HD15
Wikipedia too - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector

While the above wikipedia link provides a potential cop out, it still ends up being a misnomer due to the ambiguity. Furthermore, since the pinout on the OSSC is indeed that of VGA, it's a bigger misnomer to state it ambiguously. It really seems like they need to have more folks review their videos before publishing them. Then again, they might have already received such feedback before publishing, and decided to ignore it.

[BuckoA51]

That's by far the most anally retentive post I've seen all day

[Guspaz]

Which is why I'm complaining about that video and other impressions of the OSSC spending so much time on XRGB-mini comparisons. Tell people how the device is, not how it compares to another device they might not have (and that serves a different purpose).

The episode was not dedicated to the OSSC, the episode was titled "Framemeister Alternatives". The entire purpose of the episode was to compare things to the Framemeister, for people who wanted other options.

My Life in Gaming also totally botched the naming of the HD15 connector! I suppose that will help misinform more people!

Monoprice has a good support post regarding the differences between DB15 and HD15/DE15/VGA - http://support.monoprice.com/link/porta ... s-VGA-HD15
Wikipedia too - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector

While the above wikipedia link provides a potential cop out, it still ends up being a misnomer due to the ambiguity. Furthermore, since the pinout on the OSSC is indeed that of VGA, it's a bigger misnomer to state it ambiguously. It really seems like they need to have more folks review their videos before publishing them. Then again, they might have already received such feedback before publishing, and decided to ignore it.

They did not call it a DB-15 connector. They called it a Dsub-15 connector, which is correct, and their use of the term was supplemented by lots of close-up footage of the connector and stating that it's the same connector as VGA, solving any ambiguity.

[RGB32E]

That's by far the most anally retentive post I've seen all day

You're welcome! It's a topic that's been brought up before, and the way they tried to be "correct" about it struck me as somewhat dubious. *shrug*

They called it a Dsub-15 connector, which is correct [sic] if you're only talking about the general type of connector without context as to it's application.

Corrected your correction. DB15 is often referred to or spoken as d sub 15, which is a point you're missing unfortunately.

[BuckoA51]

and their use of the term was supplemented by lots of close-up footage of the connector and stating that it's the same connector as VGA, solving any ambiguity.

Can we move on now?

[micro]

A few days ago I received one of those unclaimed v1.5 DIY kits. Assembling the board following marqs tips wasn't too hard. But one thing I couldn't figure out in the beginning was how to fit the bottom plate with the M3 nut as spacer. It turned out that you need to clip some of longer pins to make it fit.

Instead of clipping the pins I've used some left over 5mm metal spacers. Coincidentally I also had some 8mm and 12mm metal spacers which resulted in a more uniform look:


For the top and bottom plate I used a countersink tool and some nice M3 countersunk screws:


I have to say that I'm quite pleased with the OSSC's picture quality. On my TV (Sony 42W705B) and with my viewing distance of roughly 2m, OSSC's 480p + scanlines does indeed look just as sharp to me as Framemeister's 720p with scanlines. I would have never guessed that 480p can look that sharp on my TV.

Unfortunately there are 2 consoles that won't work with the OSSC and my TV: NeoGeo MV-1C and PAL PSX Games (only 288p; 576i works). These consoles do work with the Framemeister or when directly plugged into the TV's SCART input. So I guess the problem is not related to vertical refresh rate issues. Is there anything I could try to make them work?

[fafangus]

For my pal ps1 I go this way :
Ps1 > xsync 1 > extron matrix rgb > ossc av1
Every res/freq works : 240p/288p 480i/576i, switching res is much fast than with the fm
For my mv1c I go roughly to the ossc in av1 without sync cleaner, beautifull picture
Works with my Onkyo tx nr808, samsung ue32j6300 and of course the c2 (in x2 & x3 mode)

SFC (via sync strike av1) :
https://youtu.be/vb31aIHkFYI

[Blair]

That's pretty much true of all their videos, especially if you have prior experience with the "new" items they cover. You also have to consider their target demographic - people with low to no experience in the area. Even folks like phonedork are like this - glossing over/not making the proper distinctions about topics, and demonstrating a heavy bias (playing on tubes over modern displays).

I will say that this MLiG video does touch on key areas of importance when using the OSSC, and they do provide a FW rev disclaimer, which is appreciated.

I actually like phone dork's style more, although his "comedy skits" can be a little cringey (but still charming in a way). I feel that he does a pretty good job explaining concepts and showing the audience what he's talking about. while MLiG might be better on some technical details, I think that phone dork articulates his points better. overall though I wish they both had more time and resources to devote to videos.

the video MLiG did on different types of video sync was extremely helpful to me, I think they (mostly) provide a pretty good resource of information.

What adjustments can be done? You can't even add EE/DE on the Edge in game mode.

are you sure about that? I thought they fixed that in a firmware update. one of the things I love about my Edge unit is Game Mode, and I change EE/DE settings all the time when using that setting. (my unit is the Edge Green). if the original Edge has this as a permanent deficiency, that's something I didn't know. I do know that the VP50 (non-pro) also lacks adjustment options. makes me appreciate my 50pro and Edge Green that much more.

with 240p sources I get very nice looking results, here's an example using my VP50pro (EE+5 DE-37) yes you can still notice ringing on very bright backgrounds, but the effect is severely diminished, (note. I believe there's a glitch in the Vp50 firmware, 240p RGBs is for some reason listed as "YPbPr" in the information display menu, while 480i RGBs is correctly labeled, it doesn't seem to make a difference but I just wanted to clarify that for anyone looking at the pictures).

(VP50pro 240p) (album link)
https://imgur.com/a/qH8gt


honestly, just doing it this way without scanlines I think looks pretty Nice, especially sitting around 5 feet away from a 40 inch LCD. the picture looks excellent. (a bit similar to the video output of an emulator with a bilinear filter)


(VP50pro 240p+RGB 203+SLG 2x) (album link)
https://imgur.com/a/NIxlZ

scanlines are my preference, but I think the results speak for themselves. (I think this looks pretty fantastic)


(Edge Green 240p) (EE+5 DE-37) (album link)
https://imgur.com/a/3X61T

I know that a lot of people give the Green flack for being less compatible with 240p signals (a problem I personally haven't had with my systems, except for the Saturn but I was able to fix that with a component transcoder) and I've also heard that it has more bugs than the original Edge unit, but I've never experienced anything that's been any major trouble.

(on a side note I just did an A.B. test with 50pro vs Edge Green and even with a direct 240p source the green does seem to produce less ringing than the 50Pro, with the same settings) I still prefer the DVDO units over the Frame Meister because (the particular units I use) have almost no input lag and are extremely flexible. pairing them with an OSSC makes an almost bulletproof game processing solution.

(also, I've always been irritated with the noise and color issues of the Frame Meister, another big reason why I don't use one) (MLiG, did make a good point about calibrating the Frame Meister for better colors, but the signal noise is something that can never be fixed it seems).

Who's going to jump through all the hoops to push the output through a scanline generator when said setup is going to cost a fortune and give sub-optimal results compared to most alternatives anyway?

I'm not sure what you mean by that, the VP50 has analog outputs so connecting an SLG to that unit is pretty easy (although the addition of an Extron RGB interface is necessary to get proper dark scanlines, because the driving signal from the analog output of most DVDO units overwhelms the SLG otherwise), the Edge on the other hand is a little more difficult in that regard yes, but it's really not that much harder, and if you do it properly it's not really that expensive (you can find some pretty decent HD fury 2 clones for around 25 bucks these days). I wouldn't call any of that "suboptimal". but I'll agree with you that it's perhaps a little more "fiddly". then again both the Frame Meister and OSSC are also kind of fiddly (just in different ways) while providing more convenience by being integrated solutions.

As the OSSC evolves and the new 4K television market stabilizes (hopefully), it will probably make less and less sense to pair it with an external video processor.

[cfx]

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[Blair]

Curious about this now, I double-checked this on my Duo, which my impression is that is closer to the Edge Green than original Edge. Anyway, I have a single game mode, and with it on, I still have DE and EE, both of which have a range of -100 to +100. At least I can still set them, and it appeared they have effect. Options that don't do anything on the Duo in specific modes are normally grayed out.

cfx, I believe your duo is able to use DE and EE regardless of settings, it seems that your choice of DVDO Duo was fortuitous, as you've escaped issues present in both the original Edge and VP50 non-pro.

side question, do the HDMI outputs on your duo still function when using analog video output? (as the duo's big selling point was outputting video to more than one monitor)

On the 240p issue, I still for now only have the ability to connect the PS2, and via component, which according to Fudoh's page was the one system and connection that apparently always worked. Anyway, that indeed works for me and the display on the unit and status menu correctly identify PS1 games I tried as 240p. I'm not too concerned about this as I don't plan to use it for such games, but I am curious about it so I am going to test when I get my other systems and RGB cables and adapters functioning.

yes, my research indicates that all units based off the Edge Green design can use 240p sources just fine as long as they run in its component video mode, with RGB consoles this can be a little dicey. but you can likely mitigate all of that by transcoding RGB to Component just as I do with my Sega Saturn. a csy 2100 (what I use) should do the trick nicely (although the cheaper more widely available clones will probably work just as well with a few adjustments to their pots)

Still waiting for some cables as well to use the Duo with the JVC as well as audio setup so all I have done so far is just some testing, and not enough to really see what the differences are between game and non-game mode, other than I did notice in game mode still a bit of horizontal flickering in text that isn't there in non-game mode

you should probably keep Game Mode enabled for everything (for the lowest possible input lag) except 480i, as far as your preferences go that is. (that's what I do on my Green anyway)

Code: Select all

240p - on

480i - off 

480p - on

720p - on

1080i - (on most of the time, depends on the game)

1080p - on

[Blair]

SFC (via sync strike av1) :
https://youtu.be/vb31aIHkFYI

nice video fafangus! when using the OSSC do you use its built in de-interlacing? or the pass-through function? (have you tried Virtua fighter 2 out?)

it looks like you're using scanlines, what strengths are they usually set to? (I'm assuming the youtube conversion makes them much less noticeable)


@Fudoh, I use a lot of those Porta component to hdmi A/D converters, is the OSSC noticeably better at A/D conversion then the Porta units? (is it visually noticeable? and if so how big is the difference?).

I
I

[cfx]

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[BuckoA51]

I'm not sure what you mean by that, the VP50 has analog outputs so connecting an SLG to that unit is pretty easy (although the addition of an Extron RGB interface is necessary to get proper dark scanlines, because the driving signal from the analog output of most DVDO units overwhelms the SLG otherwise), the Edge on the other hand is a little more difficult in that regard yes, but it's really not that much harder, and if you do it properly it's not really that expensive (you can find some pretty decent HD fury 2 clones for around 25 bucks these days). I wouldn't call any of that "suboptimal". but I'll agree with you that it's perhaps a little more "fiddly". then again both the Frame Meister and OSSC are also kind of fiddly (just in different ways) while providing more convenience by being integrated solutions.

As the OSSC evolves and the new 4K television market stabilizes (hopefully), it will probably make less and less sense to pair it with an external video processor.

To add scanlines though you must output from the Edge/VP50 in 480p, negating a lot of the advantage of a full video processor. On the Edge you also get Framemeister levels of input lag on many retro consoles too.